Why This Case Will Soon Go Cold Again...

In case you were wondering, this is how Suffolk County homicide department looks (this is just Suffolk under Dormer. Does not include Nassau, Queens or Long Island).

There were 50 homicides in 2010 (one per week basically). There are usually around 10 to 12 full time homicide detectives with unlimited overtime. When the GB4 were discovered, four non-homicide felony detectives plus a few computer crime detectives were brought in to be on the Gilgo task force ( bringing the total to 19 Suffolk detectives assigned to homicide).

The closure rate is a poor 44 percent.

Despite the poor results, this is what Dormer predicted In February;

Dormer said he had no plans to make changes in personnel or procedure based on the year end's closure rate. He said homicide detectives have great leeway in how they pursue cases, including unlimited overtime. He said he was confident many cases recorded in 2010 will be solved, including the Gilgo killings

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And the reason for poor results being blamed upon budget cuts;

Still, some local officials said reductions in police personnel - the department now has about 100 fewer uniformed officers and 35 fewer total detectives than it did five years ago, according to police unions - was probably a factor in the homicide spike and closure rates.

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http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/suffolk-police-clear-fewer-homicide-cases-1.2699552

The LISK cases may seem to go cold again but I do not believe for one moment it will remain cold. I think Dormer has hurt these cases due to his way of thinking and what he has stated in public. He has started to sound like a nut projecting that SG most likely drown. I have not been a fan of his from the beginning.

I have followed these cases rather quietly, reading mostly at night when I cannot sleep. It is one thing to read all of these posts one at a time as they are posted, and quite another thing to read the posts several pages at a time. Having read all of the threads now, there are three people who just keep coming to the forefront. Those three are CHP, Brewer, and Pak. I believe these three people know exactly what happened to SG and more of the victims. This is just JMO.

You have stated good, solid information, Seaslug44, as to why these cases will go cold. I disagree because that is just not how it works, IMO. When Dormer is finally out, there will be progress. Dormer is too much of an 'old school' thinker. I believe he is aware of corruption among his department. I believe it will be the FBI that solves these cases because they have no vested interest in the area.

Just what kind of people would any of us be if we say that these LISK cases will not be solved because it will cost too much? No, I do not believe these cases will go cold because too much money has and will be spent. The LISK is a danger to society at large. He will be caught, IMO, and it will take time. But these cases will not permanently go cold.

I am just disagreeing with your post, Seaslug44, not criticizing you personally. Your post is filled with logic and fact, but again, this is just not the way it works, IMO.

MOO's

I believe Seaslug44 has done a tremondous service to everybody by starting the thread "Why This Case Will Soon Go Cold Again"

By raising this concern, many of us will work hard to ensure it does not.

Thank you Seaslug 44 for motivating me.

WINDSOR

Seaslug, I agree with just about everything you wrote. The thing is that Im still in doubt that they will ever catch this serial killer. Unless they have very important evidence they arent sharing to the public, he is probably going to have to take another victims life before we law enforcement can any more leads.

Doop said:

Seaslug, I agree with just about everything you wrote. The thing is that Im still in doubt that they will ever catch this serial killer. Unless they have very important evidence they arent sharing to the public, he is probably going to have to take another victims life before we law enforcement can any more leads.

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Hi Doop, Reading LaLaw's post above I had a vivid thought that goes along with your thinking.

Maybe the task force should put a lady officer out there, thru an ad, to entice him to contact her for an evening. You'd just have to have the best of the Boys in Blue working the schtick.

Do you think that would work? Too risky? Can one still advertise on Craigslist?

Make no mistake about this case...

Only the serial killer(s) is in control.

Other than identifying some of the victims, what progress has really been made in this case?

Seaslug44 said:

Make no mistake about this case...

Only the serial killer(s) is in control.

Other than identifying some of the victims, what progress has really been made in this case?

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I wouldn't give up just yet.

With the discovery of Shannan's body, new evidence has been presented and is now being analyzed.

As soon as Dormer leaves, experienced detectives will have a freer hand in doing things their way.

IMHO, Dormer has been the fly in the ointment.

A new broom sweeps clean, and a new Suffolk County Police Chief will get things moving again.

scandi said:

Hi Doop, Reading LaLaw's post above I had a vivid thought that goes along with your thinking.

Maybe the task force should put a lady officer out there, thru an ad, to entice him to contact her for an evening. You'd just have to have the best of the Boys in Blue working the schtick.

Do you think that would work? Too risky? Can one still advertise on Craigslist?

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Scandi, this was the first thing I thought of when I first heard of this potential serial killer last April. I think that inorder for this to happen, I would probably make it an FBI agent. Im sure that this killer meticulously stalks their victim before he captures and tortures them, so like you said having the best of the best working this case is a necessity. That is why I would advise it be an FBI agent.
That being said, does this killer really have a type? Was their really a similairty of between the Gilgo 4 other than the fact that they were smaller woman? That is where I think it would be tricky. The other tricky thing would be is say that this guy knows the area but isnt a local anymore. who is to say he hasnt moved on to another part of the country after what was found. But you and I have the same thought on this though.

Doop said:

Scandi, this was the first thing I thought of when I first heard of this potential serial killer last April. I think that inorder for this to happen, I would probably make it an FBI agent. Im sure that this killer meticulously stalks their victim before he captures and tortures them, so like you said having the best of the best working this case is a necessity. That is why I would advise it be an FBI agent.
That being said, does this killer really have a type? Was their really a similairty of between the Gilgo 4 other than the fact that they were smaller woman? That is where I think it would be tricky. The other tricky thing would be is say that this guy knows the area but isnt a local anymore. who is to say he hasnt moved on to another part of the country after what was found. But you and I have the same thought on this though.

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Hi, We do have the same thought IMO;} I see several similarities among the girls to where one could call it a type. It is a type that many SK's have sought to have their soul's calmed for a time. What drives this killer to covert, conquer, torture and kill them is the big question I have. That and what is the meaning of the # 4 to him?

He could travel although I doubt it, at least all the way to Detroit. I Googled it today and was amazed, as SK's burning up their victims pulled many hits. That would be a drastic MO change IMO.

Let's hope LE knows allot more than we do. Yea And that they are jointly putting it together as we speak.

Joined by acting Commissioner Edward Webber at the department's Yaphank headquarters, Burke described other imminent changes to a force whose previous commanders County Executive Steve Bellone dubbed "dysfunctional." Bellone appointed Burke and Webber recently as part of an effort to "stabilize" the department.

Bellone's comments came after Spota criticized former Police Commissioner Richard Dormer for his theory that one killer was likely responsible for all 10 homicide victims found near Gilgo Beach in 2010 and 2011.

Burke, formerly Spota's chief investigator, declined to say whether he also believes more than one killer is likely to blame.

Burke said he and Webber have "cleared an entire day on our schedules" this week for briefings on the Gilgo investigation. He said the case was "of utmost importance.

"We will utilize whatever resources necessary to bring the killer or killers to justice," Burke said.

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Suffolk top cops to tackle drug probe, Gilgo

So this meeting is today or tomorrow it seems. But it is nothing more than a debriefing to bring the new brass up to speed with the old investigation.

Seaslug44

This is great news, the Politicians & LE appear to be re-energizing this case. It is important that citizens and sleuthers keep them focused and allocating plenty of resources to this case.

Atta' boy to Suffolk County Commissioners

WINDSOR said:

Seaslug44

This is great news, the Politicians & LE appear to be re-energizing this case. It is important that citizens and sleuthers keep them focused and allocating plenty of resources to this case.

Atta' boy to Suffolk County Commissioners

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Well if the new administration is serious about making any progress in this case then the next action has got to be making the decision to hand the case over to the FBI. If we do not hear that announcement in the news within the next ten days then you can be certain that this case will indeed go dormant (unless of course the SK decides otherwise).

Just so everyone knows, the new administration has more ties/connections to Oak Beach than the old administration. The new County executive is a great guy. He was, however, most recently the Town of Babylon supervisor and some of his key supporters/campaign contributors have homes located at Oak Beah, Gilgo Beach, Oak Island and Captree Island.

Seaslug44 said:

Well if the new administration is serious about making any progress in this case then the next action has got to be making the decision to hand the case over to the FBI. If we do not hear that announcement in the news within the next ten days then you can be certain that this case will indeed go dormant (unless of course the SK decides otherwise).

Just so everyone knows, the new administration has more ties/connections to Oak Beach than the old administration. The new County executive is a great guy. He was, however, most recently the Town of Babylon supervisor and some of his key supporters/campaign contributors have homes located at Oak Beah, Gilgo Beach, Oak Island and Captree Island.

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Hopefully, his key supporters and contributors are not crooked citizens and that they truly do want this string of murders solved.

Wasn't sure where to put this post. Since it is related to the political pull that the residents of Oak Beach have (and their ability to manipulate the system in their favor) I guess this is as good as any place to put it since it is in the best interest of all of the OBA residents to see to it that SG's death is ruled an accident and this case turns cold shortly after.

Here is a link to a very interesting article that shows how much power GC and his association have (and the selfish lengths they have gone to in order to make things go their way). An interesting quote from that article;

"I told them (the residents) from the outset that I would not proceed or present anything to the Town unless I had their (the organization’s) support," said Cassata following a press conference on the steps of the court house after he filed the suit there. "And, they understood that there was a point of no return since I was making a significant financial investment."

Over the past several months, Cassata worked with the residents, outlining his initial plan and then revising it to meet their concerns. He scaled back the density, put a million dollars in escrow and even agreed to put in a community center and tennis court for the Oak Beach Association, he said. Then, when Matherson closed the Oak Beach Inn and auctioned off its contents, the support he was told he had from the residents faded away as well.

"I would never go into a community to build something that wasn’t wanted, which was why I worked so closely with them," said Cassata. "But they used me to get the OBI shut down under the pretext of telling me they supported my plan," said Cassata.

Gus Coletti, of the Oak Beach Association says that what Cassata is failing to mention is a meeting he had with the residents in August. After months of negotiating with them and putting together a proposal both could agree upon, Cassata presented an entirely new—and unacceptable proposal—that evening.

"The plan he presented to us on August 17 was very different from the one we approved," said Coletti. "It made the units 70 feet in height with 16 penthouses. He moved the road all the way out to the Causeway, put the parking in front and added a 20-foot by 70-foot sewage treatment plant right at the edge of the parkway, which we immediately rejected and which he will have a hard time getting approvals for."

Coletti said that after discussing the new plans for an hour and a half, the residents told Cassata that they opposed them and asked him to leave.

The initial plans had a height of 35 feet and a density of 104 units compared to the 132 in the new plan, said Coletti. The parking went from 180 to 264 spaces. "It was a totally different proposal, with towers at both ends," he said.

Buzzell said that's simply not true and that the association members knew that the "conceptual plan" presented to them initially would be changed somewhat once a survey on the site was done. And, added Buzzell, he had a handshake from Coletti on the deal in October, two months after August meeting Coletti referred to.

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Back in the day, the Babylon town supervisor was Richard Schaffer. The members of the Oak Beach Association literally despised the man and were constantly suing the town of Babylon when Schaffer was in control

As for the Association’ latest move, Schaffer said he’s so used to fielding lawsuits from them that this latest one "comes with the territory."

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source here

However, the Association's ace-in-the-hole was a newcomer to the political scene named Steve Bellone who they helped get elected as a town Councilman. Here is a photo of that political newcomer from over a decade ago showing his support for the Oak Beach Association community;

Babylon Town Councilman Steve Bellone who is working to bring together the purchase of the OBI property and to bring it into public hands holds up the plan submitted by the Town to the County.​

The OBA members/residents are extremely smart. They made sure that they backed a true super star. Steve Bellone truly is a super star (seriously). There is not a thing about him or his career that there is not to like. His ability was so obvious that after just four years as town councilman the town of Babylon residents elected him to be their Town Supervisor. He did such an awesome job in that position for the past ten years that it made him clearly the most qualified man to win the recent County Executive election.

Now he is the boss.

He is the man who picks the next police commissioner.

He is the man who has total control of the funding and the supervision of this investigation.

I have full faith in him as a County Supervisor (and he appears to be a real decent human being) so I am hoping that he is able to deal with the pressure when his supporters come knocking on his door asking for favors.

Just so you are aware, Steve Bellone's campaign headquarters is located at 4309 Oak Beach, Oak Beach, NY 11702 source

I am not very good at interpreting campaign contribution reports (so someone is going to have to explain this one to me). Steve Bellone's campaign has been called "Friends of Steve Bellone". Back when he was in the running for the Babylon Town Supervisor (as well as the re-election), you can see the financial report for the $295,229.84 in contributions that were reported to the NYS Board of Elections here. What I don't get is out of the $295,229.84 that was donated to Friends of Steve Bellone when he was running for supervisor, $193,314.84 of that money came from one lump contribution from Oak Beach;

$193,314.84 15-JUL-06
FRIENDS OF STEVE BELLONE
4309 OAK BEACH
OAK BEACH, NY 11702

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I just don't understand. Is this a misprint or is it saying that the campaign dontated $193,314.84 to itself?

And if they did, where did they get the cash?

Now if you look at the campaign contributions for his 2011 County Supervisor campaign here, you will see that he received $1,091,624.35 total but out of that total look at how much of it are these entries;

$960,000.00 31-JAN-11
FRIENDS OF STEVE BELLONE
4309 OAK BCH
OAK BEACH, NY 11702

$50,000.00 05-SEP-11
FRIENDS OF STEVE BELLONE
4309 OAK BCH
OAK BEACH, NY 11702

$25,000.00 25-OCT-11
FRIENDS OF STEVE BELLONE
4309 OAK BCH
OAK BEACH, NY 11702

$9,000.00 25-MAY-11
FRIENDS OF STEVE BELLONE
4309 OAK BCH
OAK BEACH, NY 11702

$4,000.00 07-APR-11
FRIENDS OF STEVE BELLONE
4309 OAK BCH
OAK BEACH, NY 11702

$2,000.00 05-NOV-11
FRIENDS OF STEVE BELLONE
4309 OAK BCH
OAK BEACH, NY 11702

$3,500.00 15-APR-11
FRIENDS OF STEVE BELLONE
4309 OAK BCH
OAK BEACH, NY 11702

$1,200.00 29-JUL-11
FRIENDS OF STEVE BELLONE
4309 OAK BCH
OAK BEACH, NY 11702

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I really don't understand campaign finances. It just seems like a very large percentage of the funds are not being listed with a contributor's first and last name. The money appears to have been flowing out of Oak Beach with no names attached.

Once again, I am sure there is a logical explanation for this (and I'm sure Steve Bellone has more important things to do than attempt to understand why reports are published the way they are).

One thing is clear, the residents over at Oak Beach are simply ecstatic because one of their own is now in charge of the entire County!! I'm sure it brings back memories of the times when Steve Bellone was there for them. Like here in this photo from back in July of 2002 when Steven hosted some focus groups to bring residents of Oak Beach to Babylon Town Hall to assist the town with planning the changes they would eventually make to the land where the OBI once stood.


In photo above left, Babylon Town Supervisor Steve Bellone speaks to residents at the start of the meeting on Oak Beach Park last week.

I know that it's difficult to see (due to the size of the photo) but if you look real carefully you can see CPH in a tie and jacket sitting in the front row second from the left. You can also see GC sitting in the back row all the way to the left. And naturally, GC grabbed his 15 minutes of fame as always;

"This is a great night for us," said Gus Coletti, a resident of Oak Beach and a member of the committee. "In truth, I never thought that we would ever be able to see this site in public hands and to have a part in the process of deciding what goes there,"

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So my question/concern is, what does Steve Bellone do if his contributors from Oak Beach come knocking on his door asking for a favor again???

Seaslug, three things I don't understand:
#1
The Oak Beach Residents don't own the land that their homes sit on...it is owned and leased by the Town of Babylon to the residents. So, how is it that individuals and their Association have any say over how the Town manages the neighboring properties.

#2 Nevermind, on this one. I found the answers and wrote them in RED.
When the OBI was torn down and its contents auctioned off...who owned the land? (MR MATHERSON)Was it owned and leased, up until then, to the owner of the OBI or was the land separate from the OB Association and owned privately? (I found it was owned privately and Mr Cassata had offered to buy it from Matherson for $5 Million.). Did this developer buy the land from the previous owner, the Town of Babylon, or was he going to lease the land as the residents do and build a development on it? Did this man lose the $1,000, 000 he put in escrow plus future profits?

#3
Who owns the land today and what has been done with the property in the decade since the meeting (2002) between the OB association & S. Bellone?

Just K said:

Seaslug, three things I don't understand:
#1
The Oak Beach Residents don't own the land that their homes sit on...it is owned and leased by the Town of Babylon to the residents. So, how is it that individuals and their Association have any say over how the Town manages the neighboring properties.

#2 Nevermind, on this one. I found the answers and wrote them in RED.
When the OBI was torn down and its contents auctioned off...who owned the land? (MR MATHERSON)Was it owned and leased, up until then, to the owner of the OBI or was the land separate from the OB Association and owned privately? (I found it was owned privately and Mr Cassata had offered to buy it from Matherson for $5 Million.). Did this developer buy the land from the previous owner, the Town of Babylon, or was he going to lease the land as the residents do and build a development on it? Did this man lose the $1,000, 000 he put in escrow plus future profits?

#3
Who owns the land today and what has been done with the property in the decade since the meeting (2002) between the OB association & S. Bellone?

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#1. Good point. Amazing right? It's the million dollar question that Matherson was asking himself for decades.

#2. yes you found the answers.

#3. The land was eventually purchased by the Town of Babylon. The OBI building & dock were torn down and a new dock/waterfront park was built to the exact specifications/demands that the OBA demanded. The killer part of it was that the OBA had the final say on everything so the necessities/desires of the rest of the town residents were completely ignored.

For instance, Thousands of residents wanted the town to replace the old boat ramp. Currently the only boat ramp in the area is located within Captree state park. There is a hefty fee for using the ramp and all boats under 14 feet or strictly forbidden (this is to prevent people from launching jet skis/PWC's. Many town residents would use the ramp at Oak Beach. But the OBA made sure that the ramp was closed and never opened again because of the "noise" that some of the OBA residents did not want to tolerate. The Boat ramp was included in the town's initial proposal but the OBA forced them to remove it.

Likewise, thousands of town residents wanted the new park to include a concession stand, a restaurant, a bait & tackle store, a band stand and a group picnic area. All of those awesome ammenities were also removed from the plans by the demands of the OBA (I am not even sure if they ever even allowed public restrooms).

When the fishing pier was first opened to the public, there were actually OBA residents who walked the pier telling people that they could not bring crab traps, nets, fishing rods or buckets on the dock! Initially a few families respected those wishes but eventually everyone stood together and simply ignored the demands of "the grumpy old people on the dock" until they finally stopped making those unreasonable demands.

Wow, Seaslug, it's amazing that the Town would throw good money after bad. It sounds like this is now just a municipal plot of land that loses potential revenue. Why would the citizens of the Town of Babylon stand for such a waste of their public dollars. It is absurd that the few hundreds of residents of Oak Beach, who are not even land owners, could outweigh the wishes of the hundreds of thousands of county residents and land/home owners.

I know these people (not personally but Long Island people/culture in general), grew up there, its a strange place, a lot of very powerful and influential people, mafia types, old school Jewish families, drunk irishmen, its a different type of culture there than anywhere else in the states, its worse than South Boston, they really play by their own rules and those who are charged with enforcing the rules dont, they are paid to look the other way, there is a lot of drugs, prostitution, and just hard core partying going on daily at places like Oak Beach and there specifically in fact.


You can be sure the politicians in charge of things will pull any strings they are asked to pull wrt to the case, its just how it works and when it comes time for elections and campaign contributions, they get their favors returned in a big way. Its the epitome of corruption, that area, maybe second only to Washington DC in white collar crime and Hollywood in weirdness.

I fully expect the case to go cold soon if it hasnt already and I would be totally shocked if there is ever an arrest in this case, if there is it wont be a local but someone from outside this little community who doesnt have the benefit of having favors granted by those in charge. If Doc Feelgood, Coletti, etc are involved and I still think its unlikely, they will never be called to task for it, no way, wont happen.

Just K said:

Seaslug, three things I don't understand:
#1
The Oak Beach Residents don't own the land that their homes sit on...it is owned and leased by the Town of Babylon to the residents. So, how is it that individuals and their Association have any say over how the Town manages the neighboring properties.

#2 Nevermind, on this one. I found the answers and wrote them in RED.
When the OBI was torn down and its contents auctioned off...who owned the land? (MR MATHERSON)Was it owned and leased, up until then, to the owner of the OBI or was the land separate from the OB Association and owned privately? (I found it was owned privately and Mr Cassata had offered to buy it from Matherson for $5 Million.). Did this developer buy the land from the previous owner, the Town of Babylon, or was he going to lease the land as the residents do and build a development on it? Did this man lose the $1,000, 000 he put in escrow plus future profits?

#3
Who owns the land today and what has been done with the property in the decade since the meeting (2002) between the OB association & S. Bellone?

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The important thing IMO is that these citizens are able to transfer title in some way, probably by the ownership of a lease. There has to be some legal way these people own their properties in Oak Beach, aka: a document that title insurance will protect and so a loan can be secured against it.

In this video linked below, which is the press conference of Mari Gilbert at Oak Beach, when Oak Beach resident and Lifeguard Joseph Scarlise Jr. confronts Gustav Coletti about the missing Oak Beach front gate video footage from the night Shannan went missing, Mr. Coletti is referred to as "Oak Beach Mayor Gustav Coletti," I was not aware that he was Mayor of Oak Beach and I dont think he is, must be an error in the news report, does anyone know what the deal is with calling Mr. Coletti the Mayor of Oak Beach, truth or mistake?

http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-shannan-gilbert-mother-fbi,0,6430871.story?track=rss