Suffolk homicide chief: New look at Gilgo - Newsday article 3/9/12

She had such a sweet girl next door look, this SK had to be such a monster it's hard to wrap your head around such evil.

I personally like it. Now I wll go ahead and say the remainder of this post is my opinion. No doubt the GB 4 were killed by same dude. It is obvious that JT was spread out by the same guy. I have to say that I think it is a good idea for the cops to look at the multiple killer theory. It may not be as sensational as we all want (dont lie; everyone loves a good story to tell, I am just being honest.) I belive it is 2-3 killers. I really think it is 2; but I say 2-3 to give myself some leeway.

It looks to me like meltruth is doing a *Great* job of setting the record straight in regards to the *Life* of Maureen Brainard-Barnes!

Redbird said:

I have always thought her death was particularly sad. She seemed like a mother that would do almost anything to take care of her child and keep a roof over her head. During one of those specials where her sister showed that notebook proving that she had been diligently looking for a job to me was heartbreaking. I wanted to try to correct the record because it is a much different image than one of her working with a group of prostitutes and deeply involved in the their lifestyle.

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I have to say, every day, you manage to take it to a higher level.

I certainly respect the opinion of anybody here who believes in a cover up and I wouldn't dissuade you from going with what you feel is the answer. Let me just caution that it's pretty common in investigations of this nature that appear to have stalled that people tend to get suspicious of law enforcement. Either it's thought that there is a cover up or that there is incompetence. IMO it's more likely that the evidence isn't there to make an arrest.

Sara and Bret was Maureen friends who came down to Ny after Maureen went there that weekend. They meet up. That information was giving in confusion. That is why they left without Maureen. I think how she got lured into escorting was not by a group of girls but a girl who was also modeling at the time. I dont really know her name. Maureen did get robbed but it was earlier that day. I can pin point almost her direct time she went missing. It was between 11:30 to 12:30 Which would be July 8 that turned into the 9th.. But

Redbird said:

There is nothing in the article you quoted to indicate to me that her companions were prostitutes. In fact since they were male and female I thought they were just friends. Nor does this say they stayed at the same motel. This says Maureen had "gone off by herself," which to me sounded like she went off to take care of business by herself. If not, why didn't Brett and Sarah help her get home. Makes no sense. I'm just trying to keep the facts straight.

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shadowraiths said:

Why not? After all, instead of establishing a pattern (i.e., making harassing calls to other victim's families), the killer deviated by making the calls to Melissa's sister.

Think about it, the calls to the sister firmly plants into both the minds of LE and the public, that these murders are the work of an SK, as opposed to the result of OC.

Shoot, the profile was even generated off the calls, alone ( i.e., familiar with LE techniques, the calls indicate he's a sexual sadist, etcetera and etcetera, link, link ).

The thing is, wrt the trafficking angle, of which these girls situations have all the ear marks ( link, link ), to my mind, the calls to Melissa's little sister have long been the sticking point.

And just perhaps, that was the their intent in the first place.


Eta ~ "they" being one or more parties responsible for the GB4.

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Except dead women are of no use to traffickers. Traffickers make money off of girls working and selling and transporting. If you think this is a trafficking angle, you're way off base

shadowraiths said:

Or... they could have done it to throw off LE. You know, make it "seem" like the murder was the work of a serial killer.

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I don't believe that, Shadow. I just don't. There is absolutely nothing that would convince me that the GB4 is not the work of one guy inhabiting his own fantasy world in which he is powerful and in control, unlike in his real life.

You just can't convince me otherwise.

NJGuy said:

Except dead women are of no use to traffickers. Traffickers make money off of girls working and selling and transporting. If you think this is a trafficking angle, you're way off base

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Sure, I thought of that and it makes sense. But there are many of new gals coming into the industry everyday that makes the problem childs expendable. And that is how things have chaged. Whether that is the case here is not yet known.

LINative13 said:

I personally like it. Now I wll go ahead and say the remainder of this post is my opinion. No doubt the GB 4 were killed by same dude. It is obvious that JT was spread out by the same guy. I have to say that I think it is a good idea for the cops to look at the multiple killer theory. It may not be as sensational as we all want (dont lie; everyone loves a good story to tell, I am just being honest.) I belive it is 2-3 killers. I really think it is 2; but I say 2-3 to give myself some leeway.

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BBM

That isn't at all obvious to me.

Just K said:

I've read it many times before that the three of them came into NYC to meet clients. I'm having trouble finding the original source but find it is quoted all over the web, here is one of the links that is still out there.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ml+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
"Maureen Brainard-Barnes, the earliest Long Island victim, was an energetic single mom of two young daughters who wrote poetry and liked the books of Shel Silverstein.

The 25-year-old brunette came into the city by train with two acquaintances, Brett and Sarah, from Norwich, Conn., on the morning of July 9, 2007, to meet clients, a friend said.

Brainard-Barnes called her friend in distress that night from the Port Authority Bus Terminal, saying she had been robbed of the money she earned that day.

"She just wanted to come home," said the friend. "She said she was coming that night and would check in."

Brett and Sarah returned without Maureen, who had gone off by herself.

"They said they didn't know what happened to her," the friend said."

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The subject of your bolded sentence is Maureen. The action of meeting clients belongs to the subject...ie; Maureen.

hawkshaw said:

Sure, I thought of that and it makes sense. But there are many of new gals coming into the industry everyday that makes the problem childs expendable. And that is how things have chaged. Whether that is the case here is not yet known.

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I am not an expert in the human trafficking area, but I can imagine these traffickers spend quite a good sum of money to get the girls from point A to point B. Get them set up somewhere to live, clothes, ect..... So I'm sure they would not like to throw away their investment without what they perceive as a good reason. For these people it is all about the money.
Sorry if this sound sort of cold, but there is no nice way to put things talking about this subject.

hawkshaw said:

Sure, I thought of that and it makes sense. But there are many of new gals coming into the industry everyday that makes the problem childs expendable. And that is how things have chaged. Whether that is the case here is not yet known.

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I agree there are many, many girls for various reasons coming into the industry, and sadly many will go missing that we will never know about.

However, in terms of the GB4, the ritualistic nature of the crimes, combined with all 4 being set next to each other (or same location) makes no sense with the trafficking angle. Nor does the phone calls. Sorry, traffickers going through this much trouble of calling families to make it appear as a serial killer is beyond farfetched. Too much 'Criminal Minds' thinking going on. If these 4 were in fact victims of traffickers, their bodies would most likely never be found. And further, often girls will disappear from one location to be moved to work in a large geographical distance away from the place they are abducted. Not always, but most of the time. And Mountain Kat is correct also, they will spend money on food, shelter, miscellaneous things to keep these girls alive and able to work - it's how they make their money.

Originally Posted by NJGuy
"Except dead women are of no use to traffickers. Traffickers make money off of girls working and selling and transporting. If you think this is a trafficking angle, you're way off base"

But NJGuy, According to reports I've read 3 of the girls found in burlap (Maureen, Melissa, and Megan)and including Shannan Gilbert, stated to family and friends, that they wanted out of the business. Human traffickers (also known as pimps and romeo pimps) tend to see "their girls" as their possessions. And have been known to go to extreme measures to keep them as their possessions, dead or alive. Am I wrong? Personally, I have no emotions invested in whether the killer is an sk or a sadistic pimp. I'd be happy to be wrong as long as they get him and lock him up forever.

Samantha Spade said:

Originally Posted by NJGuy
"Except dead women are of no use to traffickers. Traffickers make money off of girls working and selling and transporting. If you think this is a trafficking angle, you're way off base"

But NJGuy, According to reports I've read 3 of the girls found in burlap (Maureen, Melissa, and Megan)and including Shannan Gilbert, stated to family and friends, that they wanted out of the business. Human traffickers (also known as pimps and romeo pimps) tend to see "their girls" as their possessions. And have been known to go to extreme measures to keep them as their possessions, dead or alive. Am I wrong? Personally, I have no emotions invested in whether the killer is an sk or a sadistic pimp. I'd be happy to be wrong as long as they get him and lock him up forever.

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Hey Samantha,

I agree that these people are typically possessive and see the girls as items and commodities. However, with the placement of the victims, and the taunting calls, it seems highly unlikely this is the work of a pimp/trafficker/sex ring. These people don't want to get caught, all they care about is making money, by any means.

How many times must it be mentioned that someone on the fringes of OC or even directly involved, either as a client, worker, rival, rouge cop, whatever could have been an opportunist and individually taken it upon him/herself to kill the women.

There is a progression amongst all of the GB4 from leaving their hometowns to ultimately becoming an outright prostitute. It is hard to believe that a woman/girl just wakes up one day and decide that it would be a good idea to go to one of the most dangerous cities in the US and start "escorting" without any backup or knowledge of the business.

Even MBB's sister used the word "lured." At first, she said MBB was lured ,
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7697603&postcount=146"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Suffolk homicide chief: New look at Gilgo - Newsday article 3/9/12[/ame]

"No, she was Independent. She did not have no pimp. No she was not a dancer. She went to NYC in hopes to become a model and was lured into escorting by other girls in the same lifestyle..." and then modified that to [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7697603&postcount=146"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Suffolk homicide chief: New look at Gilgo - Newsday article 3/9/12[/ame]

"...I think how she got lured into escorting was not by a group of girls but a girl who was also modeling at the time. I dont really know her name..."

The recent article that details LI prostitution explains that these men, we have referred to as pimps, go on road trips, from city to city, with the woman they control. This is a secretive world and the people involved do not usually tell all the gory details. That is why this case will be so hard to solve because on both sides of the business and even within the business it is all about "secrecy."

NJGuy said:

Hey Samantha,

I agree that these people are typically possessive and see the girls as items and commodities. However, with the placement of the victims, and the taunting calls, it seems highly unlikely this is the work of a pimp/trafficker/sex ring. These people don't want to get caught, all they care about is making money, by any means.

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Plus, it would have had to be the same pimp, disposal guy, or trafficker. Based on the above mentioned similarities, LE would have found a connection to the 4 girls and an arrest would have been speedy.
The streets talk. Sometimes when criminals get the pinch, they let LE in on this talk. 4 dead girls connecting one person would be a few years off a long penal system vacation.

NJguy,
Understood and you make a good point. Though have you considered a connection to Amber Costello's murder and the LongIslanderotic post by a man who said that he had friends who would take care of her. Then poof, she was gone. That coincidence makes me hang on to the belief that these girls (atleast the girls found in burlap: Maureen, Melissa, Megan, AND AMBER) were killed by a man or a group of men, who made it known that he took care of the women that got out of line. I know, it could be just a coincidence that that LIerotic poster threatened Ambers life and then she disappears and is found dead in burlap months later. But I'm finding it very hard to accept that it's just a coincidence. And her death is definitely connected in some way to the other three if just by the burlap and location of her remains alone. Please let me know your thoughts on that. I am very open to all theories, even those that strongly differ from mine. Many times people bring up points I never even considered and which blow my theory right out of the water.

Mountain_Kat said:

The subject of your bolded sentence is Maureen. The action of meeting clients belongs to the subject...ie; Maureen.

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It is a bad sentence and actually should have been stated something like this, "Maureen, who came into the city by train with two acquaintances, Brett and Sarah from Norwich, Conn., on the morning of July 9, 2007, was there to meet clients."

Samantha Spade said:

NJguy,
Understood and you make a good point. Though have you considered a connection to Amber Costello's murder and the LongIslanderotic post by a man who said that he had friends who would take care of her. Then poof, she was gone. That coincidence makes me hang on to the belief that these girls (atleast the girls found in burlap: Maureen, Melissa, Megan, AND AMBER) were killed by a man or a group of men, who made it known that he took care of the women that got out of line. I know, it could be just a coincidence that that LIerotic poster threatened Ambers life and then she disappears and is found dead in burlap months later. But I'm finding it very hard to accept that it's just a coincidence. And her death is definitely connected in some way to the other three if just by the burlap and location of her remains alone. Please let me know your thoughts on that. I am very open to all theories, even those that strongly differ from mine. Many times people bring up points I never even considered and which blow my theory right out of the water.

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Hey Samantha, I am enjoying the dialogue we are having, it's insightful and helpful. I do know about the one poster who claimed she would be taken care of etc, however, if I recall, the poster was a john, not a pimp of any kind. Now that certainly does not preclude him form being involved, or people he knows being involved. But typically, pimps/gangs/traffickers won't post on those sites as johns - doesn't make much sense to me. Now if we are talking a different angle - a john or group of men harming Amber for a specific reason (getting robbed, bait and switch etc), it is vastly different from a traffic angle, and does not account for the other girls as well.