17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #30

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suzihawk said:
I'd say it was at the point when you shoot an unarmed teenager for looking suspicious. But that's just me. :)
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Not if it isn't relevant. IMO it's not and apparently neither did the judge, hence the low bond.
 
m00c0w said:
Is there a source that says Zimmerman shot him for "looking suspicious"? I thought the claim was that he shot him in self defense after Martin committed aggravated battery.

TIA.
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From the transcipt of Zimmerman's charge affidavit of second degree murder.

http://www.thefloridanewsjournal.co...est-and-charge-affidavit-second-degree-murder

Zimmerman who also lived in the gated community, and was driving his vehicle observed Martin and assumed Martin was a criminal. Zimmerman felt Martin did not belong in the gated community and called the police. Zimmerman spoke to the dispatcher and asked for an officer to respond because Zimmerman perceived that Martin was acting suspicious.
 
cityslick said:
No but at what point does ancient history come into play? I can tell you I was a different person at 28 than I was at 20.
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I think it comes into play when you use a gun to resolve an issue that never should have been an issue in the first place and one person is dead because GZ decided not to take the advice of LE. jmo
 
cityslick said:
I don't disagree. But you don't need a history of violence to shoot someone. I think the guy has a history, recent history, of being paranoid and that has played into this incident.
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You're probably right.

I think the past history may come in relevant as, not so much as a history of violence, but as a history of conflicts escalating instead of diffusing. A police officer does something young GZ doesn't like, things happen, things happen, he ends up being arrested. There is a disagreement with a girlfriend, things happen, things happen, he ends up in the courthouse logs. There is a rowdy customer, and instead of peacefully escorting her out he ends up getting mad. The other party may have been partially to blame but GZ is the common factor in all of them and just maybe he has had a tendency to overreact/ provoke when the tough get going.
 
suzihawk said:
From the transcipt of Zimmerman's charge affidavit of second degree murder.

http://www.thefloridanewsjournal.co...est-and-charge-affidavit-second-degree-murder

Zimmerman who also lived in the gated community, and was driving his vehicle observed Martin and assumed Martin was a criminal. Zimmerman felt Martin did not belong in the gated community and called the police. Zimmerman spoke to the dispatcher and asked for an officer to respond because Zimmerman perceived that Martin was acting suspicious.
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You make it sound like GZ saw TM and opened fire. There was a lot that happened between GZ seeing TM and and the gun being fired.

Your quote even states: Zimmerman spoke to the dispatcher and asked for an officer to respond because Zimmerman perceived that Martin was acting suspicious. It does not say "Zimmerman fired on Martin because Zimmerman perceived that Martin was acting suspicious"
 
suzihawk said:
From the transcipt of Zimmerman's charge affidavit of second degree murder.

http://www.thefloridanewsjournal.co...est-and-charge-affidavit-second-degree-murder

Zimmerman who also lived in the gated community, and was driving his vehicle observed Martin and assumed Martin was a criminal. Zimmerman felt Martin did not belong in the gated community and called the police. Zimmerman spoke to the dispatcher and asked for an officer to respond because Zimmerman perceived that Martin was acting suspicious.
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Even if those were true, a causal link was not formed between suspicion and the shooting. The claim is that Zimmerman shot Martin because Martin attacked Zimmerman. Not merely because Zimmerman thought he was suspicious. These are two very different statements.
 
mommakk51 said:
If memory serves me correctly, that very party that you speak of, (about the disgruntled employee wanting to get paid) happened at the clubhouse of the Retreat at Twin Lakes. GZ left a trail to follow.. you just have to connect the dots...JMO-IMO-IMHO-MOO

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam...documents/911CallHistory-George-Zimmerman.pdf
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Actually, the incident I was speaking of is on p. 43 of the .pdf document you linked -- Thank You!

However, police were not called to the Retreat@Twin Lakes neighborhood at all IMO. It was to 100 Fountain Parke Blvd. in Lake Mary. The date of the report was Dec 10, 2011. Zimmerman was the caller, and said that his wife would meet responding LE.

It says that a white male subject with a shaved head named Jeff was upset b/c he thought that he had been hired to serve food, but GZ says he hired someone else and did not want Jeff to serve at "the event." It states that GZ (or maybe it meant his wife?) has never met this person, but the subject was wanting to get paid and was upset.

A clubhouse is mentioned, but IMO that refers to the clubhouse at Fountain Parke, perhaps the location where a Christmas party or some other event was to be held? Just a guess.

JMO
 
Desdemona said:
Please don't take the following question as a challenge or disrespectful, as it's not meant that way at all. I sincerely want to know what you think; in fact, I will post no reply if you choose to answer, other than to thank you.

Question: Is it in fact your belief that (1) GZ knew TM was unarmed, and that (2) the reason GZ shot TM is because he thought he looked suspicious?

TIA I'm curious to know whether the BBM phrase accurately represents your actual opinion. Please don't feel obligated to answer if you'd rather not.

JMO
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I really don't know if GZ thought/knew Trayvon was unarmed or not. I would think a sensible person wouldn't pursue a young man if he thought he was armed, however.

I believe GZ was on a mission not to let another a$$hole punk* get away that day. I further believe that GZ (falsely) assumed he was suspicious because he was a young black male in a place where he (GZ) deemed he had no right to belong.

* I'm still not convinced the slur he used was 'punk'.

IMO
 
jjenny said:
Assuming any of it actually happened. Prosecution sure was not using that alleged incident to illustrate Zimmerman's supposed propensity for violence.
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Do you really think that a former employer who is doing business with people who are running illegal parties is going to come forward and admit it to LE???? The SA office would have to subpoena records and get a statement from his coworker. I don't see them doing that just for a bond hearing. This coworker described GZ was being a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Better served for trial or his SYG hearing. jmo
 
Concerned Papa said:
I noticed that during one span of his redirect questioning of Investigator Gilbreath, Attorney O’Mara repeated the contention that his client had turned and was “walking towards his car” a total of SEVEN times in a matter of minutes. It’s clearly a part of the core of the defense strategy that’s now locked into the record and will be a point that will be driven to a jury.

Did it ever cross this attorney’s mind that a jury might wonder just exactly how far his client may have “followed” Trayvon before “turning back” towards his car?

Does this attorney not understand that GZ told LE that he had turned back towards his car at [07:12:00 pm] after being told “We don’t need you to do that”?



Does he not comprehend that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon FIVE MINUTES later at [07:16:41 pm] and was TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY THREE FEET from his car?

TMChasePursue.png


Does this this attorney not understand that George Zimmerman got out of his vehicle at [07:11:42 pm] and in his own statements to LE, says he only followed Trayvon for EIGHTEEN SECONDS?

IMO, once the jury wraps their minds around the fact that this “went back towards his car” after 18 seconds, clearly could not have happened, pictures that show up of an alleged little “boo boo” on George’s head, TWO MONTHS after the SFD EMT’s cleared him for transport in a matter of minutes, aren’t going to play a significant role in their verdict.

TMCleared-1-1.png


I think they will be able to readily see that George Zimmerman didn’t stand his ground, he CHASED it. They will see that his “ground” was an unarmed 17 year old kid who had broken no laws and was just trying to go home.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #30
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Another superb post, Papa - ty ty! So, George ran almost the length of a FOOTBALL FIELD to catch & kill Trayvon in those few minutes. The witness said they were running & there’s no way Trayvon would’ve chased a strange man he wanted to get away from, imo. And George was never headed back to his car, he was on ‘patrol’ with his two flashlights & gun loaded with hollow point bullets when he caught himself a 'perpetrator'. All jmo of course.

:moo: :moo:
 
LambChop said:
Do you really think that a former employer who is doing business with people who are running illegal parties is going to come forward and admit it to LE???? The SA office would have to subpoena records and get a statement from his coworker. I don't see them doing that just for a bond hearing. This coworker described GZ was being a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Better served for trial or his SYG hearing. jmo
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I will be very surprised if we ever hear a beep about this in any of the trials.

Getting witnesses to testify about it would be difficult I think if they have to admit to their own illegal activities in order to do so.

It might not even be allowed as evidence because it is not directly related to TM's death.
 
francie said:
Another superb post, Papa - ty ty! So, George ran almost the length of a FOOTBALL FIELD to catch & kill Trayvon in those few minutes. The witness said they were running & there’s no way Trayvon would’ve chased a strange man he wanted to get away from, imo. And George was never headed back to his car, he was on ‘patrol’ with his two flashlights & gun loaded with hollow point bullets when he caught himself a 'perpetrator'. All jmo of course.

:moo: :moo:
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Where has it been established that TM wanted to get away from GZ?
 
cityslick said:
Where has it been established that TM wanted to get away from GZ?
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The GF's testimony about their conversation would indicate so imo.

Did TM have a motive for wanting to make contact with GZ? He didn't know GZ existed until a couple of minutes before his death.
 
CORRECTION.

The times on the call log are PST. His last call was actually at... 10:12 that night? Am I doing the math properly?

What? This isn't adding up.

Screen Shot 2012-04-22 at 5.12.53 PM.png
 
Donjeta said:
The GF's testimony about their conversation would indicate so imo.

Did TM have a motive for wanting to make contact with GZ? He didn't know GZ existed until a couple of minutes before his death.
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And GZ's own words indicate it. "He's running", he's down by the other entrance.. He obviously wasn't running towards GZ, he checks him out, he runs away.

JMHO
 
cityslick said:
Where has it been established that TM wanted to get away from GZ?
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1. By Zimmerman saying "he's running"

2. By Trayvon's actions and path straight toward home

3. By the girlfriend's testimony

All THREE of these facts confirm each other's accuracy
 
suzihawk said:
I really don't know if GZ thought/knew Trayvon was unarmed or not. I would think a sensible person wouldn't pursue a young man if he thought he was armed, however.

I believe GZ was on a mission not to let another a$$hole punk* get away that day. I further believe that GZ (falsely) assumed he was suspicious because he was a young black male in a place where he (GZ) deemed he had no right to belong.

* I'm still not convinced the slur he used was 'punk'.

IMO
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Thank you. :seeya:
 
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