Raven Says . . .

mysteriew said:

She was pregnant- why would she have cramps? If she was having cramps that bad- she should have been on her way to the hospital.

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That was my point in one of my earlier posts. To say that she had cramps or that he thought nothing of her being in that position because she always did that when she had bad cramps - it sounds like he's implying that he thought she might be menstruating, (as if he wasn't aware of the pregnancy). I can't help but wonder if that would have been Janet's usual time, (and hence the claim that he thought she was having cramps). And if it was, and she was near the fourth week of pregnancy, THAT would have been a likely time period during which they found out about the pregnancy.

WebMD with AOL Health - Pregnancy Week by Week - First Month

Week 4

You're probably expecting your period this week, and if it doesn't occur it might be one of the first signs that you're pregnant.

WebMD with AOL Health - Pregnancy Week by Week - Second Month

Week 5

Still no big changes to notice in yourself, although you might suspect by now that you're pregnant.

Week 6

With a pelvic exam, your practitioner will be able to notice a change in the size of your uterus.

Week 7

You're still not "showing," but by now you're really feeling the changes in your body. You still may be experiencing morning sickness and the other symptoms of early pregnancy.

Week 8

Your embryo, now about in its sixth week of development, is about the size of a grape ...

Your uterus, once the size of your fist, is now about the size of a grapefruit. You may feel some cramping or pain in your lower abdomen or sides, but that's because your uterus typically tightens or contracts throughout pregnancy.

JerseyGirl said:

Week 6

With a pelvic exam, your practitioner will be able to notice a change in the size of your uterus.

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So we can surmise that if there were no size changes noted in her uterus, that she was probably earlier than 6 weeks. If her uterus was enlarged, she would probably be 6 weeks or beyond. But we'd need more information to know this one way or the other.

I am looking at the autopsy report and a few things are not making sense here. I am probably posting things other have thought of, but I am just kinda thinking out loud trying to make some sense of this.

1) Stap wound to the neck- according to the autopsy was the lethal wound.

Sharp force injury #1 consists of a stab wound to the base of the right side of the neck, 12" from the top of the head and 1/2" to the right of the midline. It is approximately 1" in length. It is located above the clavicle; there is a small puncture site located lateral slightly below the clavicle; it may be an extension of this wound.

The track of this wound passes backward and slightly downward, severing the right subclavian artery, and leading to the accumulation of approximately 2 liters of blood within the right chest cavity. It passes across the apex of the right upper lobe and terminates by incising the 2nd right rib at a depth of approximately 4".

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Right side of the neck, running back and down- the only way I can picture this is if it occurred with the suspect standing behind. A right handed person would then be cutting the victim on the right side of the neck. A suspect standing in front and holding a knife in the right hand would normally cut the left side of the victim wouldn't they? Small cut below the wound probably an extension of the wound. So it probably wasn't a stab, more like a slice. Note blood in the chest cavitity from this wound, which indicates the victim was alive at the time of the wound. How long would it take to bleed out from this type of wound? I am thinking a minute or two.

2) Chest wound

is a stab wound located on the left side of the chest, 18" from the top of the head and beginning in the midline. It is approximately 1" in width.

The track of this wound passes backward and slightly to the left, passing through the sternum, then between the heart and the left lung. There is an incision of the pericardium but no other damage to either of those organs. There is no significant amount of blood within the left chest cavity. This wound terminates as a small incision between ribs #6 and 7 on the posterior left chest.

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Notice no blood in the in the chest cavitity. A possible indication that the wound occurred after death or at the time of death. The pericardium was nicked, so blood would have acculmulated in the chest cavity if the heart had been beating.
So my thinking is that Janet was attacked from behind, and her throat cut. Death would not have been instant. As she lost strength, she probably went to her knees. Attacker could have then leaned over her and stabbed her in the chest from behind, to make sure that she was dead then let her fall forward (kneeling postion?) But as Steve pointed out that would have had to have been a forceful blow.
It would be a big help to find out what position she was in when the first officer or EMT arrived.

mysteriew said:

It would be a big help to find out what position she was in when the first officer or EMT arrived.

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It was noted that the first officer found her on her back.

JerseyGirl said:

It was noted that the first officer found her on her back.

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Thanks, after I posted I read in the autopsy report that Raven stated he found her in the kneeling postion and then rolled her over when she didn't answer him. Thus, the fact that she was in the kneeling postition can't be verified independently.

mysteriew said:

... the fact that she was in the kneeling postition can't be verified independently.

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The kneeling position in which she was supposedly found makes me very curious. Was she really found in a kneeling position? If not, what is the reason for making that claim? And the only thing I can think is for reasons of blood spatter & evidence. And that would go hand-in-hand with what you stated earlier about the position of the attacker in relation to the angles of the wounds.

ETA: If she wasn't actually found kneeling, another reason for Raven to claim that she was is to have the ability to make that claim that he thought nothing of it - placing more time between the attack and the 911 call, (when he might actually have been disposing of a weapon).

mysteriew said:

She was pregnant- why would she have cramps? If she was having cramps that bad- she should have been on her way to the hospital.
Has anyone heard how far along she was in her pregnancy?

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It's hard to go to the hospital when there's no transportation.
It says 7:00 for the last verified time that Janet was known alive.
So that tells me at least that Janet didn't speak to anyone after Raven left for the soccer game.
What about her cell phone? Where was it? Did he leave her without transportation and communication that night?

JerseyGirl said:

The kneeling position in which she was supposedly found makes me very curious. Was she really found in a kneeling position? If not, what is the reason for making that claim?

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Remember that the officer Early (I believe it was) came to the scene and found a pool of blood near the body--meaning that the body had been moved.

This just came to me as I was writing this (and it makes me sick to think of it). Since there was no blood in the chest cavity, what if that wound came postmortem? Like she was moved and whomever rolled her over and stabbed her again in the chest. Would (and Could) the autopsy say that occured postmortem?

Jenifred said:

Remember that the officer Early (I believe it was) came to the scene and found a pool of blood near the body--meaning that the body had been moved.

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That's true. But also remember the search warrant - didn't it say something about blood evidence on the rug under her?

You know what's occuring to me? That the reason for the kneeling claim could be because of the position of the attack to minimize blood spatter on him (as we've discussed in the past). And she was probably placed down quickly when it was over so that the perp could get away with the weapon. And then, her body probably couldn't support itself any longer, she fell over, and when the perp noticed this upon returning, he had to improvise the story about turning her over because he needed to be able to say that she was on her knees when he found her, (because what husband would see his wife lying on her back in the next room yet stop off to kiss the baby before seeing if she was okay?) And he needed to say that he stopped off to kiss the baby to allow another minute or two into his timeline.

All of these little details in this very tight timeline make me believe that it really was much more thought out than it might appear. And I believe that back-up stories and explanations were also prepared in advance, just in case.

Jenifred said:

Remember that the officer Early (I believe it was) came to the scene and found a pool of blood near the body--meaning that the body had been moved.

This just came to me as I was writing this (and it makes me sick to think of it). Since there was no blood in the chest cavity, what if that wound came postmortem? Like she was moved and whomever rolled her over and stabbed her again in the chest. Would (and Could) the autopsy say that occured postmortem?

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From the neck wound, while probably fatal, death wouldn't have been immediate. It probably would have taken just a short time- 1-3 minutes. But yes I think that the chest wound came after her death. Now whether she was stabbed from in front of her, or from a person standing behind and over her, I can't tell. If the attacker was indeed operating from behind her, I think it was more likely that he bent over and above her- fewer chances of getting blood on him (he may not have realized that she was already dead).

Anyone know if Raven is right or left-handed?

JerseyGirl said:

All of these little details in this very tight timeline make me believe that it really was much more thought out than it might appear. And I believe that back-up stories and explanations were also prepared in advance, just in case.

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I think some of it may have been premeditated. But no one, not even an experienced killer can predict everything that will happen. So, some of it was improvised on the spot. For instance the story about the position may have been a quickie when the officer asked about the position he found the body in. He may have slipped when he said kneeling, then tried to cover the slip by saying that she did that when she had cramps. Do you know of anyone who kneels down in the middle of the floor when they have cramps? I think most women head for a bed first when they have severe cramps. While that position does help the back pain with cramps, most of us would head for a couch or bed if the cramps were that bad. Not kneel down in the middle of the floor.
But when faced with the question about the body position, he said the first thing that occured to him, then had to come up with a quick cover story.

golfmom said:

From the autopsy report:

NARRATIVE SUMMARY OF CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING DEATH​

26 year old female was in the office/bedroom of her home. Her husband came home and the residence door was unlocked. he went upstairs and saw her on the floor in a kneeling position. This was not unusual because it's the position she took whenever she had real bad cramps. However, when he turned the light on, he saw all the blood. He rolled her over and saw that she was not breathing. He thought she had been shot, and called 911. Police have not found a murder weapon.

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I think it's very convenient that Raven was able to report that the "door was unlocked," thus implying that perhaps this was not normal, etc?

Personally, when I get home late, most always I can assume the door is locked...and I don't try opening the door, I simple insert my key to unlock, etc. If Raven says the door was unlocked, he must have tried opening the door to know that, correct? Why would he do that, instead of just assuming it was locked and attempting to use his key?

Obviously he thought this was an important detail to mention to LE.. I suppose to give the impression that someone could have been in the house, or, that Janet or someone had left the door unlocked.... But for this to be included in that text from the ME report, it seems that Raven specifically pointed that detail out to someone, most likely LE.

mysteriew said:

I think some of it may have been premeditated. But no one, not even an experienced killer can predict everything that will happen. So, some of it was improvised on the spot. For instance the story about the position may have been a quickie when the officer asked about the position he found the body in. He may have slipped when he said kneeling, then tried to cover the slip by saying that she did that when she had cramps. Do you know of anyone who kneels down in the middle of the floor when they have cramps? I think most women head for a bed first when they have severe cramps. While that position does help the back pain with cramps, most of us would head for a couch or bed if the cramps were that bad. Not kneel down in the middle of the floor.
But when faced with the question about the body position, he said the first thing that occured to him, then had to come up with a quick cover story.

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mysteriew, I want to thank you so much for your keen observations.

This particular area of why he said he found her on her knees is important IMHO, there's a big clue here. I'm not sure what it is yet, but I feel this is a very important statement he made.

I have a question and I am not sure if it has been asked.

If she was found in a kneeling position next to the bed, and she was stabbed in the neck, if this is truly the story, wouldn't the blood have been all over trhe bed spread? I have only heard about walls and floor. Has there been any tests on the bed covering to say there was a large amount of blood on it? :waitasec:

Annandale1998 said:

I have a question and I am not sure if it has been asked.

If she was found in a kneeling position next to the bed, and she was stabbed in the neck, if this is truly the story, wouldn't the blood have been all over trhe bed spread? I have only heard about walls and floor. Has there been any tests on the bed covering to say there was a large amount of blood on it? :waitasec:

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When they say bedroom, they don't mean her bedroom. It was an office . This was a "third bedroom" in the house that was used as an office.

golfmom said:

mysteriew, I want to thank you so much for your keen observations.

This particular area of why he said he found her on her knees is important IMHO, there's a big clue here. I'm not sure what it is yet, but I feel this is a very important statement he made.

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Cramps due to menstruation which could be construed as a cover-up for the fact that he knew Janet was pregnant?

Moxie said:

When they say bedroom, they don't mean her bedroom. It was an office . This was a "third bedroom" in the house that was used as an office.

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Which personally I go to MY bed when I have cramps. And if they are particularly bad I lay on the floor in a ball. Not kneeling. Again, if that was the position she chose to take when having cramps, why wouldn't she do it in her own room, why the office?

JerseyGirl said:

So we can surmise that if there were no size changes noted in her uterus, that she was probably earlier than 6 weeks. If her uterus was enlarged, she would probably be 6 weeks or beyond. But we'd need more information to know this one way or the other.

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After pregnancy the uterus usually doesn't go back to it's original size, but remains a little larger because it's been "stretched out" by the pregnancy. So, at the time of autopsy, her uterus may have been larger than normal, but it could have been attributed to the fact that she had given birth six months previously. In my long winded way, I'm trying to say she may have been past the six week mark, but not too far past. I think that where she was in her pregnancy is important but that may be why the information has not been released.