AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

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white rabbit said:
i saw that...good question, and yes it's absolutely possible.

either way, IMO at 6:28am at least a few family members were awake.
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So then how is it that the family would be unaware of these voices? And please oh please don't tell me because the walls were so well built as to keep out noise lol. I can understand if the dogs were barking it would be difficult to hear voices, but apparently the neighbor could hear both. The voices could have been bouncing off that high wall, from inside the home. How did at least mom who would have been getting ready for work, not check on why the dogs would be barking?
 
WhatsupAZ said:
Hi all... Long time lurker, first post. I am not certain of my opinion yet. I have a few questions for sleuthers:
1. Has anyone sleuthed the similarly named people in the f & f scandal? Just want to be able to put that to bed in my own mind... Tia
2. Does anybody know of any proven case of a child's accidental death being covered up by a parent (besdes the CA bs)
oasn- I have been extremely conscious of what my kids wear to bed lately after all of this banter!
thanks for input!
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Ok, I'm going to stick my neck out here. First of all welcome!! Second the F & F thing has been WIDELY struck down here, however, one of the locals stated that they were at a dinner at a parents home, that had friends who were retired LE, and those men/women thought that this case could be drug cartel connected. That's huge for me because who better would we ask but retired LE what their thoughts are on why Isa was actually taken? Just sayin....
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
In most instances, US citizens - adults and children - do not need a passport to travel to Canada, Mexico, and most parts of the Caribbean (excluding Central and South America). Photo ID, proof of residency, and a birth certificate are usually sufficient. For ease in travel, those who do not plan to travel abroad or beyond the aforementioned destinations, there is a "passport card" that costs less than a passport and resembles a driver's license.

http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_1738.html
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I'd like to add that passports now have a little RFID chip embedded in the cover. If Isa went through a border entry, LE would know the location, time and date.
 
The possibility of the FF connection is discussed in Thread 14 and 15. A lot of information there, but it's a long shot.
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
Re: Both of soyesterday's excellent and thoughtful posts. I no longer have children (I'm a grandmother) at home, but even I am pizzed at the type of posts that you describe. I recall this same type of judgmental attitude during a recent case of a missing/murdered child in Detroit. Posters wanted to know why the little girl was wearing a tee-shirt and not pajamas when she was put to bed. Had she had her bath before being put to bed? Why was the little girl sleeping on the floor in the dining room with other children in the home and not in her own bed? On and on and on...

I live in suburban Detroit and know what dire straits the city has been in for many years: High unemployment, homelessness, poverty, mothers who raise children with no support from the fathers, drugs, etc. Most don't own homes and are lucky to find family or friends who will give them a place to stay for a while. It's the way that it is, and I fully understand and accept the circumstances and will not pass judgment on any of these people. :moo:
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OMG i remember that too!
I kept thinking....why does it matter that she was wearing regular clothes OR sleeping on the floor and not in her own room??
Oh my gosh....do u know how many times we've let us kids do that stuff?
That was the point i was trying to make.
That the judging of what people do w/ their kids when they are not harming them in any way. They're just letting them be kids you know?

I do though....understand what a lot of you are saying how important it is to know the last thing a missing child was wearing.....as long as that's what it is and it doesn't go past that and start asking or judging WHY he/she was wearing those certain clothes or sleeping on a couch one night or a floor instead of God forbid....their own bed!!!! You know? :)
 
oceanblueeyes said:
These rumors are coming fast and furious on this case.:maddening:

I didnt even know children that age has to have a passport.

IMO
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I worked for a while with a really nice Indian man. He and his family were planning a trip but needed to update their passport photos. The last trip they had taken, their 24 y.o. daughter's passport still had a picture on it from when she was under a year old.
 
white rabbit said:
i saw that...good question, and yes it's absolutely possible.

either way, IMO at 6:28am at least a few family members were awake.
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Becky said she was either at work at 7:00 AM or left for work at that time. Sergio however, said he woke up at 8:00 AM correct?

We have never heard what time the boys woke up. Did Sergio wake them up after he found Isa missing?
 
mamamia54 said:
So then how is it that the family would be unaware of these voices? And please oh please don't tell me because the walls were so well built as to keep out noise lol. I can understand if the dogs were barking it would be difficult to hear voices, but apparently the neighbor could hear both. The voices could have been bouncing off that high wall, from inside the home. How did at least mom who would have been getting ready for work, not check on why the dogs would be barking?
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they weren't unaware, in my opinion, because the voices were theirs. in my opinion.

(i really wanted to say "because the walls were so well built lol).
 
have they checked to see if those clothes they described are in her closet/bedroom? Just to rule them out??
 
Again...I'm just talking about the DETAILS....IMO, way TMI for a 911 call. Again...everyone and each 911 call is diff. I don't care about the braids, and neither did the dispatch.
Had to make quite a few in my time. Finding dead family, friends OD, "wellness calls", heart attacks, etc...my bro is a 911 dispatch for NJSP...the "details" are for the LE when they get there. IMO, that dispatcher was rather polite in letting him go on like that...basically, it's not even typed in as such....but, oh well...I get your point, as well!!
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IMO, the way she had her hair was part of the description of her appearance.
 
time said:
Hmm... I think this is a very good theory. I don't really know anymore, but I wondered last night as I put together the CPS visit in Dec, the dog violations in April, and the neighbor claiming they were into drugs and maybe even connected to a cartel. Maybe far fetched but could they have someone (a neighbor, relative, or acquaintance) who has been dogging them for some reason and reporting them? Perhaps this is based on some real concerns or not.
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Hmmmm.......I really think this could be a very real possibility now the more I think about it. Especially after seeing what the son said in the 911 call about the "neighbor" below. This comes out of nowhere, and I think he was maybe talking to the driver and maybe he was thinking who may have been responsible for her going missing (indirectly maybe by neighbors always calling CPS + parents removing her to keep CPS from taking her)!!!

I couldn't bold it for some reason, but put it in ASTERISK Below!!!

Q - …what's your sister's name?

A – Isabel Mercedes Celis.

Q – Cely, Celis you said?

A – Yeah, Celis.

Q – Okay.

**********************************************
A – Hopefully not neighbors, she was … (inaudible).
**********************************************

A1 – Where?

A – Right there where you see the kid outside.

A1 – Oh.

A – Yeah, just hold on.

Q – Okay. Who's the one that didn't find her, you or your dad?


That comes out of nowhere. I think he was thinking who may have been responsible for her being missing. Either directly or the parents removing her from the house because of complaints from the neighbor to CPS or something along those lines. The parents could have been very frightened of a perceived threat of CPS taking her away. Especially, if they had a neighbor calling on them all the time.
 
Whisperer said:
Why are we having so much trouble lately with missing child cases and what they were wearing? Lisa Irwin, same thing. Haleigh cummings, same thing. In both cases, LE found the clothes described when the property was searched...so WTH?

We need an EXACT description of what the child was wearing when they vanished from the home...but some parentsof victims seem to have a problem with that.
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Just carrying on whisperer :)
I am not sure why we need to know? If she was abducted by a stranger the clothes would be changed out immediately, if the police know what she was wearing then if found they will know - I am not quite sure how by us knowing what she was wearing will change anything.

Let's pretend she was wearing pink pyjamas with flowers on them - now what?
 
Anita Richman said:
FWIW, I braid my daughter's hair WET before she goes to bed. Also, if we're in a hurry, my girly-girl is instructed to take a shower. Otherwise little miss diva would soak in luxurious bubbles all night! ;)
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Same here. My girls have similar complexions and from what I can tell similar hair texture as Isa, wet braids dry overnight and eliminate tangles.
Sorry if this lands in a strange place, I am just getting home from a busy AM at daughter's school and catching up.
 
:seeya:

I am checking here for any updates on Isabel ...

Is there any significant news or significant updates about Isabel or the "investigation" ?

JMO ... but this thread seems to be so "muddled" with insignificant details ... it is hard to find "NEWS" about the progress of the case ...

JMO and MOO ...

:moo::moo::moo:
 
WhatsupAZ said:
Hi all... Long time lurker, first post. I am not certain of my opinion yet. I have a few questions for sleuthers:
1. Has anyone sleuthed the similarly named people in the f & f scandal? Just want to be able to put that to bed in my own mind... Tia
2. Does anybody know of any proven case of a child's accidental death being covered up by a parent (besdes the CA bs)
oasn- I have been extremely conscious of what my kids wear to bed lately after all of this banter!
thanks for input!
Click to expand...

:welcome:

Yes, #1 has been discussed quite a bit in previous threads (not sure which one). #2 I don't think so, but I am not really sure. I hear you on being conscious of what the kiddos have been wearing to bed. My daughter is a girly-girl and has lots of pj's from Justice she likes to wear and 1 old navy shirt xxl that is her daddy's that she likes to wear sometimes. My son wears what he is going to wear to school the next day (:blushing:) HTH!!
 
soyesterday said:
WHY does it matter? I'm so not a confrontation person and i don't like to start stuff at all.
But i remember us all talking about this at the beginning too.
Why do these "little" things make it so we can be judged as parents.
If people knew half the things we do w our kids, i'd be in trouble according to some posters on here.
I don't get it at all.
My kids are perfectly, happy well adjusted kids.
They were shorts and t shirts to bed every night for jammies.
And yes sometimes they're the same clothes they might wear to school a different day.
The only thing i usually try not to do is make sure they aren't wearing the same clothes they wore earlier that day just cuz i think they are probably "germy" from school and stuff and i get grossed out about germs lol.
But IF it happens.....like maybe on vacation...or something....or maybe my younger one falls asleep on the couch before she's changed which isn't very often.
I swear sometimes after reading here, i feel like i must be a horrible mom. :(
Click to expand...

I get what you are saying. In the very beginning, it is important to know what the child was wearing, in case someone spots a child with the same clothes on wandering around or with someone who is not the parent. But at this point, I don't think it matters one iota whether she was wearing pj's or not. If someone took her and she's still alive, I would hope they've allowed her to change clothes by now.
I think the point of the discussions is that the two parents described a different top, so which one is right? And who saw her last?
 
GutFeeling! said:
Just carrying on whisperer :)
I am not sure why we need to know? If she was abducted by a stranger the clothes would be changed out immediately, if the police know what she was wearing then if found they will know - I am not quite sure how by us knowing what she was wearing will change anything.

Let's pretend she was wearing pink pyjamas with flowers on them - now what?
Click to expand...

IDK...but if the public knew about the pjs, and they saw them in a dumpster,or on the sid of a road someplace ? DNA on them ? Just a thought... MOO
 
dog.gone.cute said:
:seeya:

I am checking here for any updates on Isabel ...

Is there any significant news or significant updates about Isabel or the "investigation" ?

JMO ... but this thread seems to be so "muddled" with insignificant details ... it is hard to find "NEWS" about the progress of the case ...

JMO and MOO ...

:moo::moo::moo:
Click to expand...

NBC today show video was the only new thing today which said among other things that:
1)the cps visit last year was minor and didn't involve Isabel
2)there are three dogs
3)SC has given inconsistent statements

of course grain of salt as all of the above came from that dude named "source"
 
GutFeeling! said:
Just carrying on whisperer :)
I am not sure why we need to know? If she was abducted by a stranger the clothes would be changed out immediately, if the police know what she was wearing then if found they will know - I am not quite sure how by us knowing what she was wearing will change anything.

Let's pretend she was wearing pink pyjamas with flowers on them - now what?
Click to expand...

because it's a starting point.

hair in braids, pink pyjamas. find a pair of pink pyjamas in the house? hinky. find them in a landfill? scary. don't find them anywhere? possibility she's still wearing them and gives the public something to look for.

every little piece of the puzzle matters. imo.
 
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