AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

Prof · May 22, 2012

IMO this is a detail in a case with so little detail, that "Isa usually slept with her brothers," so I would like to know the source.

IMO It seems that in general people who have heard this story theorize that it is less likely that a stranger took Isa because Isa normally slept with her brothers; it makes the chances that a stranger came the one night Isa does not sleep with her brothers almost nonexistent.

IMO It also puts a hinky feeling on the family from what I have seen expressed ever since day 4 when this mysterious source information was shared.

IMO it is simply irresponsible for MSM to state such a thing without explanation, without back up.

The parents chose NBC out of pages of media contacts. This was stated by Hawke at the 2 pm presser May 3, the day of the Today Show. Speculation: Could the parents have chosen NBC for their first interview because of ABC and HLN spreading these types of inaccuracies? NBC being less inaccurate?

Patty G · May 22, 2012

Found the picture of the side by side with the screen removed from Jane's show on 4/25/12. Of course, this is not even Isa's room.

Also attached is Nancy's version of where the screen was removed.

winterrose · May 22, 2012

Prof said:
IMO this is a detail in a case with so little detail, that "Isa usually slept with her brothers," so I would like to know the source.

IMO It seems that in general people who have heard this story theorize that it is less likely that a stranger took Isa because Isa normally slept with her brothers; it makes the chances that a stranger came the one night Isa does not sleep with her brothers almost nonexistent.

IMO It also puts a hinky feeling on the family from what I have seen expressed ever since day 4 when this mysterious source information was shared.

IMO it is simply irresponsible for MSM to state such a thing without explanation, without back up.

The parents chose NBC out of pages of media contacts. This was stated by Hawke at the 2 pm presser May 3, the day of the Today Show. Speculation: Could the parents have chosen NBC for their first interview because of ABC and HLN spreading these types of inaccuracies? NBC being less inaccurate?

Maybe it's just their favorite news source, they didn't do anything for the first week after Isa was taken. It could be they thought of who they wanted to do the interview, like at this last vigil, SC didn't talk to the local reporter, he talked to an abc reporter. After the church donation drive, the reporters weren't allowed in the church, but after the drive the parents said they weren't taking questions.

prima.facie · May 22, 2012

Patty G said:
Found the picture of the side by side with the screen removed from Jane's how on 4/25/12. Of course, this is not even Isa's room.

Also attached is Nancy's version of where the screen was removed.

since that clearly is not her room...WTH is the screen doing THERE? why stop and lean it against the wall.....or leave it in that area (if family propped it up there after discovery)...wouldnt it make more logical sense that the napper would remove, toss it aside and it would be found right next to the window it came from?

gliving · May 22, 2012

FrayedKnot said:
This! This just kills me!

Why isn't LE asking for all the help they can get in finding Isa's body?????

No way have they already found her, they wouldn't/couldn't sit on that kind of info.

So what could possibly be their reason for not actively searching/asking for searchers for Isa?

This kinda chaps my hiney.

LE can't very well ask the public to search in deadly heat.

"Unusually high temperatures for this time of year settled in over Southern Arizona Monday afternoon, contributing to a second death in three days and causing the National Weather Service to issue a heat advisory through early Monday evening for Tucson and the southwestern part of the state.

The high hit 105 degrees, making it one of the earliest days to reach 105 since the late 1800s. Heat advisories are issued when temperatures hit 105 to 115 degrees."

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/des...cle_e440c59a-6da5-55b7-ad28-0328b1157395.html

Patty G · May 22, 2012

prima.facie said:
since that clearly is not her room...WTH is the screen doing THERE? why stop and lean it against the wall.....or leave it in that area (if family propped it up there after discovery)...

The screen is super-imposed into the shot to show the viewers where the screen was located. Of course, this is my personal opinion when viewing the photo.

prima.facie · May 22, 2012

Patty G said:
The screen is super-imposed into the shot to show the viewers where the screen was located. Of course, this is my personal opinion when viewing the photo.

ah! you think they photoshopped it in.....
wow. that is pathetic! no wonder nobody ever trusts the MSM. lol
when i take a picture this summer, im going to have them super-impose some tall super model to my face :floorlaugh:

galiuro · May 22, 2012

It is one thing to quote 'sources' but over and over again the 'sources' here morph from 'unnamed' to a friend of the family or something a bit more reliable than the vast unnamed...then you get a bunch of pages dedicated to tracking down who said friend was only to end up back at unnamed again.

It is one thing to declare the family hinky, it's another to conflate a source into being more than it is

white rabbit · May 22, 2012

Lark2 said:
Someone asked about theories last night. I theorized that something might have happened to Isabele inside that house that caused the family to go into cover-up mode.

We know that LE concentrated on her room and the boys' room. Perhaps they found some evidence in the boys' room that might explain the need for a cover-up.

Perhaps they are protecting on of their other children?

this (unfortunately) is the side of the fence i'm leaning towards...it would explain the use of the word "sensitivity" by LE in almost every press conference.

it also may explain why detectives called cps last week. they couldn't legally separate a father-and-son team, so to speak, without criminal cause, but cps can. the "welfare of the children" might have a different meaning.
they may not want to risk a minor taking the fall for an act committed by the parent, nor the parent taking the fall for the minor. dividing them might lessen that risk. maybe. not really my opinion but a thought.

imamaze · May 22, 2012

Just a reminder...

Discussing cases here is what we do. We base our discussions mainly on main stream media sources as well as court documents and LE documents. Its not perfect by any means and I think WE all know the media is not even close to being perfect.

If you want to disagree with a post fine, do it without attacking the poster for the opinion they have. Agree or Disagree but do it without attacking.

:tyou:

white rabbit · May 22, 2012

can any locals give some flavor as to the terrain in/around saguaro national park?
it's not so far from the home and looks pretty desolate.

abducted, kidnapped, whatever happened...would that be a viable place to 'disappear' a child?

TIA...

time · May 22, 2012

SweetT said:
Is it possible that they are letting Sergio be a sitting duck? Just an idea. Since he is now publicly ALONE at the house, no contact with the other children etc..and with Becky saying once Isa is home all questions will be answered. I dont know just something that came to mind.

Crossed my mind also. I thought of that when they publicly announced the 'no contact' - then it seemed the fact he was now staying at their home was becoming public (before it seemed kind of vague as to where they were staying). But it really struck me that it was blatantly advertised he was home alone when he was filmed peeking over the fence for the last vigil - and now there is an image/still to go with the story. To me, having that image is really powerful because it can be blasted in print and it tells the whole story of where he is immediately.

galiuro · May 22, 2012

There are 2 Saguaro Parks, one east, one west. Both start out as rather flat areas that quickly turn into steep rugged hills. Neither is all that close to the Celis house, at least a half hour drive, maybe more for the western park.

white rabbit · May 22, 2012

galiuro said:
There are 2 Saguaro Parks, one east, one west. Both start out as rather flat areas that quickly turn into steep rugged hills. Neither is all that close to the Celis house, at least a half hour drive, maybe more for the western park.

thanks...so say, an hour each way to/from the eastern park (deeper in)?

can one...um...dig (white rabbit suppresses vomit)? or is it a rocky/hard surface. in the middle of the night, are there animals out there? the dangerous kind i mean? coyotes? i'm two thousand miles away, i have no idea.

my point is, unless the perp(s) drove her to mexico, or she's being hidden somewhere, the only alternative is that she's gone. somewhere no one can reasonably search. drones via aircraft might be an option...TES could do that. ???

thanks...

Prof · May 22, 2012

Usually, don't LE need some type of lead to organize a search?

They have searched.

1. They searched the first 48 to 72 hours in the landfill. I am not sure what lead they had, but they did say that trash in the area was collected on Saturday.

2.They have also searched homes. They had warrants or were let in voluntarily.

3. They have also searched washes.

IMO the first and the third above types of searches could be due to leads either to external or internal (their words) perps. The second more likely would lead to an outsider IMO.

I don't think LE would ask for the public help in any of the above in any case.
The first and the second searches above would not allow public help. The third might, but as others have suggested, the terrain and weather would be too dangerous for volunteers.

As far as organized volunteers such as TES, I believe I recall they have certain criteria? I could be wrong.

BetteDavisEyes · May 22, 2012

Prof said:
IMO this is a detail in a case with so little detail, that "Isa usually slept with her brothers," so I would like to know the source.

IMO It seems that in general people who have heard this story theorize that it is less likely that a stranger took Isa because Isa normally slept with her brothers; it makes the chances that a stranger came the one night Isa does not sleep with her brothers almost nonexistent.

IMO It also puts a hinky feeling on the family from what I have seen expressed ever since day 4 when this mysterious source information was shared...

Respectfully <snipped> I frequently feel that Nancy Grace makes statements for "shock value" :what: She didn't just fall off the turnip truck and knew that the comment about "Isabel usually sleeping with her brothers" would raise some eyebrows and lead to speculation about WTH was going on in the Celis home that this 6-year-old girl shared sleeping quarters with her brothers - one of whom is 14 and in the throes of puberty.

But, as she can do so cleverly, NG simply went on to suggest that there was nothing wrong with siblings sleeping together, that her 4-year-old twins sleep together, yada, yada, yada. She completely ignored the fallout from the grenade that she had thrown as her panel of guests and viewers hoisted their jaws from the floor. :moo:

FrayedKnot · May 22, 2012

prima.facie said:
bringisahome.com
Created on: 26-Apr-12
Expires on: 26-Apr-13
Last Updated on: 26-Apr-12
SOURCE: http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/bringisahome.com

Awesome! Thank you!

So the info that RC left the house at 6:30 has been there since the first week, and was not added later as a CYA sorta thing!

And, since I am assuming the time of 6:30 came from RC, that means that this particular question has been answered for some time.

I was mistakenly under the impression that the only info about that w had was the TPD IO saying she was told that RC left about 7.

Gah! Thanks again a bunch!

AZYaYa · May 22, 2012

Nice analysis!

Between the hours of 11 p.m. and 6:30 a.m., could Sergio have let someone in who then took Isa, perhaps at gunpoint? Sergio's story to 911 almost seemed to be an alibi. "I was asleep in the living room and never heard a thing." Under this scenario, he didn't abduct her, but he saw it as it was happening and was unable to stop it? Any staging that went on from that point could be a cover-up on Sergio's part to hide whatever went on that he did see or was part of, such as owing someone a large amount of money or what-have-you.

Ladylub · May 22, 2012

johnQpublic said:
Yeah.. " At the End of the Story " HMMMMMMMM

That really hit a nerve.

azwildcat · May 22, 2012

white rabbit said:
thanks...so say, an hour each way to/from the eastern park (deeper in)?

can one...um...dig (white rabbit suppresses vomit)? or is it a rocky/hard surface. in the middle of the night, are there animals out there? the dangerous kind i mean? coyotes? i'm two thousand miles away, i have no idea.

my point is, unless the perp(s) drove her to mexico, or she's being hidden somewhere, the only alternative is that she's gone. somewhere no one can reasonably search. drones via aircraft might be an option...TES could do that. ???

thanks...

Someone may correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the parks are generally closed after a certain time, and there may or may not be a gate that would keep you out?

But digging, at least for any significant amount, would be incredibly difficult. Caliche is present, and that's just incredibly hard to dig through.

AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

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