http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laur...ren-spierers-friends-20110630,0,5617179.storyBy Anne Yeager Fox59 5:23 p.m. EDT, June 30, 2011
Fox59 obtained pictures of police using a dog at the 5 North Townhomes at 11th Street & Morton.
Bloomington police also searched Jesse Wolff's home, in the 600th block of 9th Street Wednesday.
Jacobite, I don't think anyone is questioning that dogs were used to search, but as I recall, it was never confirmed whether or not they were actually HRD (cadaver) dogs or trailing dogs seeking Lauren's scent. Or were both brought in at different times?
Where is this information about the dogs coming from?
The only time I have heard anything about police cadaver dogs was from that psychic lady's FB post ages ago that claimed her dogs hit in the same place as police cadaver dogs. I didn't think this was a credible statement, since she was not willing to back it up or provide any information about the dogs. As far as I know, LE has never released any info at all about cadaver dogs.... Am I wrong?
I'm sorry, thought I'd better do a little research before i answered Abbey. The tracking dogs were brought out the day after Lauren was reported missing. This dog followed Lauren's individual scent. On 29 June, 2011, cadaver dogs were used at Jesse's home on 9th Street and at 5 North. I read a news story that said this search came up empty. I now think what the reporter really meant is that the dog failed to locate Lauren.
Abbey brought up Gale St John from Ohio. Gale does dog searches and claims to be psychic. <modsnip>
I know cadaver dogs could be fooled by a pork sandwich or foil from said sandwich in the dumpster. I also know this is the only scent cadaver dogs found in the area. So, I think Lauren either died at the dumpster or she was removed from the area still alive. My opinion
http://abcnews.go.com/US/lauren-spi...erson-interest/story?id=13809364#.UGDT1VEw-SoBy BARBARA PINTO and JESSICA HOPPER (@jesshop23) June 10, 2011
Police are using dogs and setting up traffic check points to search for clues. They are also conducting polygraph exams of possible witnesses and pore through surveillance tapes.
http://www.wthr.com/story/15002386/detectives-following-leads-in-spierer-disappearanceBLOOMINGTON -Police returned to a townhouse complex in their search for a missing student Wednesday.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-2301833.stoBy Christy Mullins
June 30, 2011, last update: 6/30 @ 11:31 am
Bloomington police entered boyfriend Jesse Wolff’s house in the 600 block of East Ninth Street around 5 p.m., along with the shared apartment of acquaintances Corey Rossman and Mike Beth at their building on 11th and Morton streets.
It is unclear whether police entered Jason “Jay” Rosenbaum’s apartment two doors down. Rosenbaum has reported he was the last person to see Spierer in the early morning hours she went missing June 3.
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laur...ren-spierers-friends-20110630,0,5617179.storyBy Anne Yeager Fox59 5:23 p.m. EDT, June 30, 2011
Bloomington Police Captain Joseph Qualters released the following statement:
"We have previously acknowledged the use of canines as part of this investigation. The activity observed today is an indication that this investigation remains active and ongoing, but we will continue with our policy of not discussing the details of the investigation, including specific names, or anything related to evidence obtained."
I'd never seen proof that DR admitted doing Klonopin with LS. I do recall secondhand statements to that effect. If he is directly quoted please post or at least the date of this article. At the time, I researched Klonopin and there is no question that it could cause her to fall and / or drop dead, all by itself. In conjunction with other substances and / or her falls and possibly her health it could have killed her. And from the time they supposedly ingested it, the effects would have been peaking around 4am, making it pretty much impossible for her to walk just a few minutes later. Look up the metabolic characteristics of this stuff. It does make sense that JR calls DR at 4:15 because of her condition. It also makes sense that DR did not answer because at 4:15 DR should have been unconscious as well.
Why would this in any way change the OD / Body disposal theories?
If she's dead from Klonopin, that doesn't mean those with her knew that.
The most plausible thing that happened in my mind is that one way or another 1,2 or 3 of them wound up with a dead LS and didn't want to face LE at 3:30 - 4:15 am The 3 main POI's did not necessarily know about the cameras. If LE arrived at CR/MB's or JR's and saw LS's injuries and questioned any of these 3 at the time can you see a different outcome here? It's very reasonable to assume that they were scared of what might happen if they were caught with a 4'11" 98lb dead 20 year old girl who looked beat to death. LE would not be very friendly. At the same time, CR was messed up, JR had been drinking heavily. That would look real good to LE too. Any average person even just sitting there watching, who was drunk and tired might be scared to face LE under those circumstances. The idea that maybe one would be serving 20 years in prison for murder could easily pass through their mind. They had no way of knowing that LS's falls were witnessed and recorded. They would have no way of knowing what killed her and that DR would admit Klonopin was used. As the saying goes "Hindsight is always 20/20". Even as I'm willing to accept other theories, nothing seems to fit the circumstances and facts better than this. If it were disproven, that would be fine with me. But as more facts have come in, it's only solidified this theory for me, and weakened others.
So is the witness account coming from the PI's in the Lohud video (at around 4:30) coming from the same source? They describe Lauren being carried over CR's shoulders.
http://www.lohud.com/VideoNetwork/1662569062001/Lauren-Spierer-interactive
Your blog posts say almost the exact same thing (same location, includes part about Lauren falling and banging her head), but it's clear that the witness does not think it is Corey.
http://tonygatto.com/2011/06/16/new...n-spierer-mystery-encounter-with-unknown-man/
http://tonygatto.com/2011/06/22/pol...-discount-mystery-man-in-lauren-spierer-case/
Are you suggesting that the Lohud version is wrong and this wasn't Corey - or that your witness was describing a similar event, different time, different person??
Thanks!
ETA: Did you ever ask what your witness meant by "dark-skinned"? The description can obviously mean totally different things depending on whether it is a reference to skin tone or ethnicity.
I was hoping that since Tony Gatto came back to this thread to talk about the 'mystery man' witness again, that he would answer a couple of questions. I don't really understand his reluctance about this...
It's not reluctance, I just have other things to do.
Sorry, TG. The mystery man questions have been driving me crazy for ages. Patience is not my strong point
Thanks for your reply. It's interesting then, that the LoHud account uses the same witness but claims it's CR. (i.e., no mystery man) if the witness told you she didn't recognize him. I wonder if they had other evidence to show it was or whether they assumed this made the most sense given the timeline, despite the witnesses description. I don't have time to go back and watch it again right now, but I remember thinking that it sounded like there may have been more than one witness (or possibly video) from the way the PIs were speaking.
At the 3:00 mark they are talking about my witness. They describe her as an older person, not a college student. They describe the same scene as she told me, LS hits her head. And it seems the PI's think it's CR. She told me she was shown photos and that none of them matched the ones she was shown. And her description doesn't seem to match CR either.
Yeah. That isn't what I was suggesting. I was suggesting that the state LS was in indicates a cocktail, yes a very very dangerous one, of several drugs and alcohol.
You're right, it's not about me at all so I'll not address the rest of- and most of- your post except to say that while I appreciate your ever so sincere wish of luck for my future, with nearly a decade of sobriety behind me and almost 2 years as a counselor I know that luck doesn't have one single thing to do with that success. <modsnip>
'No body, No Crime' still seems to hold true despite advances in forensic science. In some ways, this case reminds me of Natalee Holloway and we all recall that JvS was a free man and would have likely remained so until he murdered someone and was faced with mounds of prosecutorial evidence.
I am not sure that DR "readily admits" that he and LS shared Klonopin. The lohud anniversar article is the only one I've seen that mentions Klonopin and it that article, it states that JR told investigators that DR or LS told him that they had taken Klonopin. If you have another source, please post a link.
Since he is not sure which one it was, he was probably told sometime during the evening before LS disappeared. For DR to readily admit something to a fellow student is not the same as if he were speaking to an investigator.
http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use
Scary. That alertness is deceptive and they are in just as much danger of death, really they are in even more danger when you factor in the stupid actions they are more likely to be involved in while "alert". These exact drug combinations kill people every single day and probably either directly or indirectly killed LS.
Scary. That alertness is deceptive and they are in just as much danger of death, really they are in even more danger when you factor in the stupid actions they are more likely to be involved in while "alert". These exact drug combinations kill people every single day and probably either directly or indirectly killed LS.
How about a simpler reason? What if this was rape-murder and the person responsible does not want the body to be found out so there is no biological material to be linked to him? To me that sounds at least as a possible, if not more possible, than the possibilities you listed above.
I've been thinking about your post for the last couple of days. I think you raise good points about LS' physical condition after falling ... and that the POIs wouldn't know her falls were caught on tape. The POIs also didn't appear to know about her long QT syndrome, so they could have also been thrown by an attack. I'd like to think that they would have tried to get her help, but then again, I'd like to think that they'd cooperate now.
Re: Klonopin. I know it's been fairly thoroughly discussed, but I do feel that JR and maybe CR would have known if LS and DR actually took it. I have older teens, and they seem pretty informed about what their friends are doing (I hear TMI sometimes, TBH). If JR or CR shared something with LS, they probably did so knowing she'd already taken something else (if the Klonopin info is true). I'm not sure how that would affect their subsequent behavior ... unless they slipped her something without her knowing it.
At the 3:00 mark they are talking about my witness. They describe her as an older person, not a college student. They describe the same scene as she told me, LS hits her head. And it seems the PI's think it's CR. She told me she was shown photos and that none of them matched the ones she was shown. And her description doesn't seem to match CR either.