Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

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The Brookfield search for the position of the phone is really only relevant to the phone itself being found - which it wasn't.
The data connection to the FTP tower I find far more intriguing.
If GBC’s phone connected to the Brookfield tower at approximately the same time as ABC’s phone connected to FTP tower – then it does show that GBC was not in possession of ABC’s phone AND his own phone that morning.


EDIT: Thanks to Alioop confirming time of ABC phone connection.
 
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/lawyers-for-gerard-baden-clay-seeking-bail-before-supreme-court/story-e6freoof-1226536987434[/url]

MSM got the time wrong. It was stated twice in the court room as being 6.31am.

As I said - lots to consider here. All thoughts welcome. And could Alioop confirm that the judge referred to Allison's phone being on that FTP cell for 13 hours? Or was that just the report in the MSM

I didn't make any notes about 13 hours and don't recall it being said. I only heard the discussion about her phone connecting to the FTP phone tower at 6.31am. I wasn't there when the Judge returned to give his decision in the evening. It could be that he gave reasons for his decision to refuse bail and summarised the defences arguments and made comments on them including this FTP connection. He had telstra records of Allison's phone exhibited to an affidavit of GBC filed as part of his bail application so he had more info before him than was mentioned in court. So MSM may have either reported the 13 hours from his decision reasons or straight from the telstra records that they got with all the bail material after the hearing. They had preordered it but it was only given to them after the judge gave his decision. Thats why they had the evening photo of the big stack of court documents on a ledge outside the court.
 
Good work RLTP and Aunty. Your ideas certainly merit closer testing, but the main thing that I find confusing (and this is where somebody - eg Alioop - can correct me if I'm wrong) but I thought Judge Applegarth is quoted as saying that Allison's phone connected to the FTP cell - then remained on there for 13 hours! Presumably until the battery ran flat.

Aunty's point about that back way is also a good one, but the main problem I'd have there is the hilliness of the route. Cell towers predominantly connect in line of sight (i.e. sight to the phone for radio waves - not literally "eyesight"). That route you describe, with which I'm very familiar (I used to live on Witton Rd/Radnor St MANY years ago). But when you describe turning onto Jesmond Rd - do you actually mean Jerrang St, which goes off the roundabout at the top of FTP road near the little store? Just up the hill from the FTP tower at the soccer grounds? Once you're on Jerrang St I suspect you'd drift out of range of the FTP tower as you go down the hill past Nudgee Junior school, and you'd be in the range of the Indooroopilly tower up ahead on Kate St. And while you're winding along Radnor St with that cliff on your left, I think it'd be the tower ahead on Coonan St near the bridge.

As I said - lots to consider here. All thoughts welcome. And could Alioop confirm that the judge referred to Allison's phone being on that FTP cell for 13 hours? Or was that just the report in the MSM?

EDIT: just found this:



from http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/gerard-badenclay-denied-bail-20121214-2beo5.html

I think the phone was dumped as soon as he knew it was in the range of the FTP tower. ( If he drove this way for many years, he would know the spot where it connects. Remember when you could hear the new connections through the radio. That blipping noise. He would know where that was , from memory)
We know the accused phoned police at 7.15 am. And he said he was driving, looking for Allison. He sounded panicked? .... But it was really too early to panick. He knew it was too early to call, but he had to call. He was worried the police would find out that he drove to where he dumped the phone. He needed a reason for driving that morning. He needed to seem very worried and panicked.

We have all thought it odd that he phoned so early.
We have wondered what triggered this need to call the police so early.
It was this odd timing, that was his biggest mistake. :rocker:
I think this is why he panicked and phoned the police that morning.
:twocents:
First, He needed to prove that Allison was alive in the morning.
That she had left their home alive.
That he had no idea where she went, and he did not murder her.
He still had her phone so he decided to use it to prove his innocence.

He believed that the police would find the phones trail and it would prove where Allison went. He needed it to ping at that FTP phone tower and he hatched his plan. ( he would have been understanding of tower signals and phone pipping, as he was involved in a spy business and he was used to hiding his affairs.

He just had to take it on a path away from their house , (when he said she may have left to go for a morning walk) and leave it switched on , at another remote tower. It had to be in a quiet area with no witnesses. He has left his phone at home, and driven off to Kenmore via Kenmore rd with Allisons phone. He has dumped it, in an area close to the tower at FTP and away from traffic and houses.
He has turned around and driven back to Brookfield, thinking about how he could get caught. he has then panicked, and realised he could later be placed where the phone was thrown ,if someone saw him , so he'd need a good reason for driving there if he is later caught.
He arrives back at the Brookfield house, grabbed his phone, then driven around Brookfield, and called police, telling them specifically he was out looking for Allison. He just hopes no one witnessed his earlier drive.
I think this is where the phone is, and why he phoned the police too early to report Allison missing.
 
I think the phone was dumped as soon as he knew it was in the range of the FTP tower. ( If he drove this way for many years, he would know the spot where it connects. Remember when you could hear the new connections through the radio. That blipping noise. He would know where that was , from memory)
We know the accused phoned police at 7.15 am. And he said he was driving, looking for Allison. He sounded panicked? .... But it was really too early to panick. He knew it was too early to call, but he had to call. He was worried the police would find out that he drove to where he dumped the phone. He needed a reason for driving that morning. He needed to seem very worried and panicked.

We have all thought it odd that he phoned so early.
We have wondered what triggered this need to call the police so early.
It was this odd timing, that was his biggest mistake. :rocker:
I think this is why he panicked and phoned the police that morning.
:twocents:
First, He needed to prove that Allison was alive in the morning.
That she had left their home alive.
That he had no idea where she went, and he did not murder her.
He still had her phone so he decided to use it to prove his innocence.

He believed that the police would find the phones trail and it would prove where Allison went. He needed it to ping at that FTP phone tower and he hatched his plan. ( he would have been understanding of tower signals and phone pipping, as he was involved in a spy business and he was used to hiding his affairs.

He just had to take it on a path away from their house , (when he said she may have left to go for a morning walk) and leave it switched on , at another remote tower. It had to be in a quiet area with no witnesses. He has left his phone at home, and driven off to Kenmore via Kenmore rd with Allisons phone. He has dumped it, in an area close to the tower at FTP and away from traffic and houses.
He has turned around and driven back to Brookfield, thinking about how he could get caught. he has then panicked, and realised he could later be placed where the phone was thrown ,if someone saw him , so he'd need a good reason for driving there if he is later caught.
He arrives back at the Brookfield house, grabbed his phone, then driven around Brookfield, and called police, telling them specifically he was out looking for Allison. He just hopes no one witnessed his earlier drive.
I think this is where the phone is, and why he phoned the police too early to report Allison missing.

Interesting thoughts. This scenario would also require a third person using GBC phone at Brookfield to text ABC phone. He could also have explained being seen in the FTP area as 'on his way to work' as per your earlier post. Could the phone have arrived in the FTP area in the wee hours of the morning/night prior and an automatic update caused it to make a connection at the time it did?
Unless you drove via Rafting Ground Rd, Moggill Rd, Kenmore Rd etc (an odd way to travel to FTP from Brookfield) you would travel through the Kenmore roundabout on your way.
 
MSM got the time wrong. It was stated twice in the court room as being 6.31am.



I didn't make any notes about 13 hours and don't recall it being said. I only heard the discussion about her phone connecting to the FTP phone tower at 6.31am. I wasn't there when the Judge returned to give his decision in the evening. It could be that he gave reasons for his decision to refuse bail and summarised the defences arguments and made comments on them including this FTP connection. He had telstra records of Allison's phone exhibited to an affidavit of GBC filed as part of his bail application so he had more info before him than was mentioned in court. So MSM may have either reported the 13 hours from his decision reasons or straight from the telstra records that they got with all the bail material after the hearing. They had preordered it but it was only given to them after the judge gave his decision. Thats why they had the evening photo of the big stack of court documents on a ledge outside the court.

I thank you greatly Alioop for this post. It just goes to show that assumption and reliance on MSM reports can create much misinformation. Perhaps it is time for me to simply lurk again. :)
 
I think the phone was dumped as soon as he knew it was in the range of the FTP tower. ( If he drove this way for many years, he would know the spot where it connects. Remember when you could hear the new connections through the radio. That blipping noise. He would know where that was , from memory)
We know the accused phoned police at 7.15 am. And he said he was driving, looking for Allison. He sounded panicked? .... But it was really too early to panick. He knew it was too early to call, but he had to call. He was worried the police would find out that he drove to where he dumped the phone. He needed a reason for driving that morning. He needed to seem very worried and panicked.

We have all thought it odd that he phoned so early.
We have wondered what triggered this need to call the police so early.
It was this odd timing, that was his biggest mistake. :rocker:
I think this is why he panicked and phoned the police that morning.
:twocents:
First, He needed to prove that Allison was alive in the morning.
That she had left their home alive.
That he had no idea where she went, and he did not murder her.
He still had her phone so he decided to use it to prove his innocence.

He believed that the police would find the phones trail and it would prove where Allison went. He needed it to ping at that FTP phone tower and he hatched his plan. ( he would have been understanding of tower signals and phone pipping, as he was involved in a spy business and he was used to hiding his affairs.

He just had to take it on a path away from their house , (when he said she may have left to go for a morning walk) and leave it switched on , at another remote tower. It had to be in a quiet area with no witnesses. He has left his phone at home, and driven off to Kenmore via Kenmore rd with Allisons phone. He has dumped it, in an area close to the tower at FTP and away from traffic and houses.
He has turned around and driven back to Brookfield, thinking about how he could get caught. he has then panicked, and realised he could later be placed where the phone was thrown ,if someone saw him , so he'd need a good reason for driving there if he is later caught.
He arrives back at the Brookfield house, grabbed his phone, then driven around Brookfield, and called police, telling them specifically he was out looking for Allison. He just hopes no one witnessed his earlier drive.
I think this is where the phone is, and why he phoned the police too early to report Allison missing.
Sorry,
I just wanted to add that there is a triangle of bushland, that the phone may have been thrown into, where no one would normally walk and the phone would never be found. I feel strongly, that it could be there and I've often thought it was an eerie place.
He may have driven along Kenmore rd, turned right into FTP rd, thrown it there, turned again sharply into Pylara st , and back up onto Kenmore rd again, to drive back to Brookfield.
This triangulated piece of bush, would be the perfect place to throw the phone and also turn back to Brookfield. It would only be in range of the Brookfield and then the FTP tower.
Daddio or the sister were at the brookfield house, with his phone, and they were instructed to send the texts after say 10 mins of him heading off, to make it look like he was at Brookfield at that time texting and Allison was alive and a long way from him.
Once the accused was satisfied that his plan was complete, he was at FTP, he got the texts, he could then dispose of the phone. He had to stay on main rds to avoid being spotted. This area would have been perfect.
I want to go look now. Wish I could.
What do you think Doc? Am I warm?
 
Interesting thoughts. This scenario would also require a third person using GBC phone at Brookfield to text ABC phone. He could also have explained being seen in the FTP area as 'on his way to work' as per your earlier post. Could the phone have arrived in the FTP area in the wee hours of the morning/night prior and an automatic update caused it to make a connection at the time it did?
Unless you drove via Rafting Ground Rd, Moggill Rd, Kenmore Rd etc (an odd way to travel to FTP from Brookfield) you would travel through the Kenmore roundabout on your way.

I think he threw it at a time closer to phoning the police.
The reason for the panic?
 
What do you think Doc? Am I warm?

You could be lovely and warm there, Aunty ;)

Why don't you take a spin out that way and have a scout around? I know it's 8 months later, so the chances of finding anything would be slim at best. But it'd be worth a little expedition - you never know your luck!
 
I thank you greatly Alioop for this post. It just goes to show that assumption and reliance on MSM reports can create much misinformation. Perhaps it is time for me to simply lurk again. :)

Please don't just lurk, you are making really valuable contributions which I and I am sure many others appreciate. You don't have to post if you have nothing to say but don't just lurk!
 
I thank you greatly Alioop for this post. It just goes to show that assumption and reliance on MSM reports can create much misinformation. Perhaps it is time for me to simply lurk again. :)

redlightthroughpaper, Please keep posting.
Everyone here is so intelligent and I often feel like im getting in the way, but, we have some amazing clues now, and we all need to sleuth. Accepting and discarding info is how we do it. It's ok to get it wrong via MSM.
I enjoy your posts too.
The small stones, the bits of sand, all need turning, thats why im here, and along with the bigger stones, the ones Doc and Alioop and many others turn, we will together, uncover the truth. :rocker:
 
Aunty, you could be on to something here. Keep brainstorming, I am very interested in your theories.
 
You could be lovely and warm there, Aunty ;)

Why don't you take a spin out that way and have a scout around? I know it's 8 months later, so the chances of finding anything would be slim at best. But it'd be worth a little expedition - you never know your luck!

No fun being in the cold :)
I want to, but i have just made a dentist app for my daughter and there's no way I can . Bugger.
 
Aunty, you could be on to something here. Keep brainstorming, I am very interested in your theories.

Thanks so much. Wow, so good working with you. Yay!
I'm trying to feel what he would do and say.
I know the area well, and I think he was methodical , covering himself well, so we need to look for motives for everything he said to the police.
 
Thanks so much. Wow, so good working with you. Yay!
I'm trying to feel what he would do and say.
I know the area well, and I think he was methodical , covering himself well, so we need to look for motives for everything he said to the police.

Aunty maybe the Police may be able to access the SES to help do a thorough search of that triangled area you speak of.[A metal detector may help too].
 
'Erase Data – when turned on, this setting erases the iphone if someone enters a false passcode 10 consecutive times in a short period.'


http://www.gottabemobile.com/2012/09/27/how-to-set-a-passcode-on-lock-screen-of-iphone-5/

This is how my iphone is set up.
Allison's phone may have been set up the same way. Just as it was being dumped the incorrect passcode could have been entered ten times rendering it useless. It may have pinged just prior or during its death throes.
I know that iCloud and remote wiping were discussed in much earlier threads, but this is a really simple(like me) scenario
 
Thanks so much. Wow, so good working with you. Yay!
I'm trying to feel what he would do and say.
I know the area well, and I think he was methodical , covering himself well, so we need to look for motives for everything he said to the police.

Motive for what GBC said to police would be dependent on his guilt or innocence (of murder).
There are many possibilities for the FTP iPhone connection that could support either.
Thus far the only known fact that I have been unable to imagine a reasonably plausible innocent (of murder) explanation for is ABC's blood that was found in the car. IMO
 
Thus far the only known fact that I have been unable to imagine a reasonably plausible innocent (of murder) explanation for is ABC's blood that was found in the car. IMO

She had to lie down in the back seat because of very very bad menstrual cramps.
 
lol. That explanation is a little beyond reasonably plausible even for someone who is still fence sitting. It did make me smile though! :)

Somewhere way back in the threads, we did actually discuss this. And I pointed out that there is no reliable way to AGE or DATE bloodstains, once past that first few hours. Once it's dried, in other words. There have been a few attempts at doing so, but none has been reliable or foolproof.

So we're left with basically two possibilities:

1. The blood came from Allison that night, as she was being transported in the back of the Captiva,

OR

2. The blood had been there for some time and had nothing to do with that fateful night. They'd had the car for about 8 weeks, so anything could have caused the bloodstain, from a cut finger to a nosebleed. The pictures of the bloodstains didn't actually show a huge amount of blood - it was made to look more by the smearing effect and the Luminol fluorescence. But my impression was that the stains were quite small, and tracked downwards a bit.

Now the most LIKELY thing is that the blood got there as a result of the dirty deeds of that night. But the other possibility is still logically feasible.

One thing we still don't know is any details about the blonde hair that was apparently found on TOP of the blood stain. But we don't know if it was STUCK into the blood (i.e. the blood was still wet when the hair landed on it) or if it was merely laying on top of the dried blood. And of course, analysis of the hair would then help to pinpoint times etc, given that she'd just had her hair done and coloured the evening before.
 
Could the blonde hair belong to someone else, ie not Allison but maybe someone else involved in moving her body. :waitasec:

Just thinking this as one of my long hairs fell onto my sandwich plate as I hovered over it.
 
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