IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

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CoolJ said:
I am sorry. I am a medical professional, and I am telling you it is extremely rare for a person to suffer from amnesia after a punch to the face. The types of injuries the Neurosurgeon is describing are from severe blows to the head(ie. Motor vehicle accidents). He is a specialist after all and therefore would only be involved in severe head trauma cases. This kid does not have amnesia unless he was severely beaten in which case his face would have been busted up. I have seen dozens of kids CR`s age suffer concussions and memory loss is very rare. I have seen hundreds of kids that age get punched in the face and concussions are rare from a single punch. So do the math. Also, was it reported that CR was at a pharmacy at 7:30am? If so, Doesnt that not raise anyone's dinky meter? What was he doing up at 7:30 after that type of night?
Click to expand...

He was looking for a little blonde girl with MB, and seeking out medication for a rough night. After being tucked neatly in bed by MB and LS (yeah, right), he awakens feeling pretty awful and needs MB to also accompany him to the drugstore. I can't think of how many times my college room mate wanted to go shopping with me early in the morning after being up late... that's assuming anyone slept at all. Nothing like a case of the "guilts" and a long sleepless night to trigger a nasty migraine.
 
They were at the drug store at 7:30AM? I was thinking it was much later. 7:30AM would be interesting.
 
akh said:
They were at the drug store at 7:30AM? I was thinking it was much later. 7:30AM would be interesting.
Click to expand...
I think the original lohud article is gone, but this is what it said:

"A friend of Rossman's told The Journal News on Friday that Rossman looked groggy but OK several hours afterward and was aware that Spierer was missing. The friend, a male Indiana University student who lives in Spierer's building, said he ran into Rossman at a CVS pharmacy the afternoon of June 3 and saw no redness or bruising on his face.
He said Rossman was with Beth and told him that Spierer had been in their apartment early that morning.
The friend spoke on the condition his name not be used because he did not want to anger Rossman and did not want police to know he was speaking about the case with a reporter.
He said Rossman recalled having a lot to drink the previous night and said he went home and passed out. Beth told the friend he put Rossman to bed and that Spierer wanted to leave. Beth told the friend he watched her walk out the door and down the street on her way home, the friend said."

I don't know where the specific time of 7:30 came from. The article says "afternoon." Presumably CVS would have video that was given to LE.

Note that this has yet another version of events from MB.
 
Post 5N Timeline:
(My belief is that LS died at CR/MB's around the time of the 3:30 call to JR)
Please help me fill in the times...

1) 4:15 JR's calls to DR and ??
2) JW calls HT?
3) JW shows up at SW and wakes HT?
4) Kilroy's calls JW? Do they call others in the phone? If so, who and when?
5) JW shows up at 5N. WHY and What time? He first goes to CR/MB's and then JR's, correct?
6) Mr. S shows up and goes to 5N with JW and again confronts CR/MB and JR.
7) What time exactly did CR/MB leave in search of medication and mention they were looking for "a little blonde girl"?
8) Did JR leave his apt and look anywhere? Did he make any calls after 4:15??
9) JR did have visitors, when did they leave?
10) what time was it when CR/MB showed up at the drugstore? Exactly what did they buy, and did they go anywhere else before returning to 5N?
 
VeryVeritas said:
Post 5N Timeline:
(My belief is that LS died at CR/MB's around the time of the 3:30 call to JR)
Please help me fill in the times...

1) 4:15 JR's calls to DR and ??
2) JW calls HT?
3) JW shows up at SW and wakes HT?
4) Kilroy's calls JW? Do they call others in the phone? If so, who and when?
5) JW shows up at 5N. WHY and What time? He first goes to CR/MB's and then JR's, correct?
6) Mr. S shows up and goes to 5N with JW and again confronts CR/MB and JR.
7) What time exactly did CR/MB leave in search of medication and mention they were looking for "a little blonde girl"?
8) Did JR leave his apt and look anywhere? Did he make any calls after 4:15??
9) JR did have visitors, when did they leave?
10) what time was it when CR/MB showed up at the drugstore? Exactly what did they buy, and did they go anywhere else before returning to 5N?
Click to expand...

7 and 10) It is my understanding that CR went to CVS on the afternoon of June 3 and was looking for a little blonde girl on the morning of June 4. Somehow these events have gotten merged and given a time of 7:30 a.m. on June 3, which I believe to be incorrect.
 
Ros said:
In June of 2011 on there were reports that JW's Facebook page had implied that JW and LS had just reunited after going through a rocky period. However, on June 24, on PT, aaronwg (allegedly JW's roommate) said that he thought they had a great relationship and that JW did not know what she was up to that night since he was watching the Mavs game.
Click to expand...

I found a source for the rumors that JW's Facebook page had implied that JW and LS had reunited after a breakup:

http://alwaysnewnews.weebly.com/

JW had posted on LS page:
"back in the FB relationship!! i love you so much baby cant stop thinking about you."

But this was posted when she had been missing for more than a week. The post was later erased.
 
VeryVeritas said:
Post 5N Timeline:
(My belief is that LS died at CR/MB's around the time of the 3:30 call to JR)
Please help me fill in the times...

1) 4:15 JR's calls to DR and ??
2) JW calls HT?
3) JW shows up at SW and wakes HT?
4) Kilroy's calls JW? Do they call others in the phone? If so, who and when?
5) JW shows up at 5N. WHY and What time? He first goes to CR/MB's and then JR's, correct?
6) Mr. S shows up and goes to 5N with JW and again confronts CR/MB and JR.
7) What time exactly did CR/MB leave in search of medication and mention they were looking for "a little blonde girl"?
8) Did JR leave his apt and look anywhere? Did he make any calls after 4:15??
9) JR did have visitors, when did they leave?
10) what time was it when CR/MB showed up at the drugstore? Exactly what did they buy, and did they go anywhere else before returning to 5N?
Click to expand...

According to the IM article:

Early afternoon, June 3:
JW repeatedly tries to contact LS
Employee of Kilroy's calls JW to tell him that they have her phone
JW meets HT on campus to get a key so he can check apt
JW checks apartment and does not find LS there

About 4:30 p.m. LS is reported missing to BPD - There is conflicting information about who made the missing person report: JW or Sara ? and Amanda Roude

"Police today said Wolff went to the police station to report Spierer missing. However, Tamir said two friends — Sara and Amanda Roude, a student from Chappaqua — went there to fill out a missing person's report."



http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/Story.aspx?ID=1712477

According to this article, JW called HT to arrange to get her key

http://www.examiner.com/article/lauren-spierer-friend-statement-the-drug-rumor-and-the-police

The original lohud article is gone,<modsnip> , HT said that it was around 2 p.m. when JW wanted to check on LS at her apt.


"Jesse was texting Lauren the next day to see where she was, but he got no answer because the bar had her phone," Tamir said. "After a few texts, the bar texted Jesse back saying your friend left her phone here, tell her to come get it."
Tamir said that's when Wolff contacted her and one of her girlfriends, "asking us if we heard from her."
"We both said we didn't," she said, "and I was in class so he asked me if he could come get my key from me just to check if she was still sleeping in the apartment because it was around 2 p.m. then, and we all sleep late."

<modsnip>
 
I've mentioned this before but I think it's worth thinking about.

Once JW knows LS's phone was lost/left at Kilroy's it then would explain to him why she hasn't replied to his texts.

Then once he gets the key and gets to the apartment to check on her, how does he know she hasn't been there and left already? It's late enough in the afternoon that it would seem a realistic possibility that she could've gotten into bed late, still gotten a few hours sleep and then left for food, shopping, errands, friends, etc..

Since he would now know she'd lost her phone (and lost it in the kind of place phones are often lost so it shouldn't raise any redflags) then not returning calls/texts is now understandable.

Why is she suddenly known or thought to be 'missing' at this point?

This part of the story just doesn't sit right with me.

A college kid not home in the middle of the afternoon, and no way of knowing if she'd been home or not, just does not add up to 'missing' in and of itself.
 
this just in from the IDS, student newspaper at IU:

Friday Feb. 1

"A female reported a sexual assault at about 2:45 a.m. Thursday, Bloomington Police Department Lt. Steve Kellams said.

Bloomington Police continue their investigation in which a 21 yr. old woman
reported she met a man while at a bar where she had been drinking, Kellams said.

The interaction with him began as consensual, she told police, but she then blacked out.

Kellams said she told police that when she became aware of what was happening, she realized she was laying in some shrubbery somewhere in the downtown area.
The man was on top of her, rubbing against her. She told police she had to push the man off.
The woman then reunited with her friends at the bar, Kellams said, and then she returned to her residence, where she reported the incident.

Officers spoke with the woman at her residence and transported her to IU Health Bloomington Hospital where a rape kit was performed, Kellams said."

What bugs me about this article besides the obvious is that the name of the bar is protected. Just ridiculous. Guess I need to go to the city police reports.
 
CoolJ said:
The amnesia story is an outright lie. You only get amnesia from a punch to the face in the movies. To me this lie clearly tells us he is hiding something. IMO he planned to take advantage of her that night....
Click to expand...

I completely agree. And really, even in the movies, a character with amnesia is probably the laziest plot trick out there. It's insulting to the intelligence, as are the 'alibis' by the POI.

I think people are giving them too much credit and over-thinking the alibis as if they part of some well thought out plan or planned defense.

I think all three have simply taken the strategy (probably advised by their lawyers) of saying as little as possible. CR had the benefit of being punched in the face, which has allowed him to use 'amnesia' as an excuse for not telling anyone what happened that night, which I'm certain he would have done anyway. But he was in a different position than the others, having several witnesses see him drag a semi-conscious, intoxicated girl home, who then went missing.

Even with the amnesia story, the one-line account that was made public "He was punched and then was helped home by Lauren" turned out to be a lie. When it was exposed, the story was modified. That's an awesome part about amnesia, right?

Interestingly, though his lawyer likes to paint him as a victim who was assaulted by a random , they never pressed charges, and have never seen the video, according to Saltzman. Why not? Because Salzman and CR do not want anyone to know what the fight was about. I would not be surprised, to be honest, if the stories about the puncher that circulated on the internet were totally fabricated by CR or one of his friends. I've never seen any evidence at all to back up those rumors.
 
Just tried to look this up on police blotter but couldn't find it.
 
AbbeyR said:
I completely agree. And really, even in the movies, a character with amnesia is probably the laziest plot trick out there. It's insulting to the intelligence, as are the 'alibis' by the POI.

I think people are giving them too much credit and over-thinking the alibis as if they part of some well thought out plan or planned defense.

I think all three have simply taken the strategy (probably advised by their lawyers) of saying as little as possible. CR had the benefit of being punched in the face, which has allowed him to use 'amnesia' as an excuse for not telling anyone what happened that night, which I'm certain he would have done anyway. But he was in a different position than the others, having several witnesses see him drag a semi-conscious, intoxicated girl home, who then went missing.

Even with the amnesia story, the one-line account that was made public "He was punched and then was helped home by Lauren" turned out to be a lie. When it was exposed, the story was modified. That's an awesome part about amnesia, right?

Interestingly, though his lawyer likes to paint him as a victim who was assaulted by a random , they never pressed charges, and have never seen the video, according to Saltzman. Why not? Because Salzman and CR do not want anyone to know what the fight was about. I would not be surprised, to be honest, if the stories about the puncher that circulated on the internet were totally fabricated by CR or one of his friends. I've never seen any evidence at all to back up those rumors.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the thing about Fight Club is that nobody talks about Fight Club. I'm with you 100% on that one... that has always been a glaring CLUE.
 
It's not up to Salzman and CR to press charges unless they want to do something thru a civil suit. Criminal charges are a decision out of their control and made by the prosecutor's office.

You can refuse to cooperate and risk contempt charges, etc. but CR has no say whatsoever, one way or the other, in whether charges are brought against the 'puncher' for battery against him at SW. The same is true if he would have demanded charges be brought (which we have no way of knowing). It simply doesn't matter. It's not his decision to make.

If the police and prosecutor thought there was information to be gained through criminal charges for the SW altercation then there was absolutely nothing stopping the prosecutor from bringing charges and handing out subpoenas.
 
akh said:
I've mentioned this before but I think it's worth thinking about.

Once JW knows LS's phone was lost/left at Kilroy's it then would explain to him why she hasn't replied to his texts.

Then once he gets the key and gets to the apartment to check on her, how does he know she hasn't been there and left already? It's late enough in the afternoon that it would seem a realistic possibility that she could've gotten into bed late, still gotten a few hours sleep and then left for food, shopping, errands, friends, etc..

Since he would now know she'd lost her phone (and lost it in the kind of place phones are often lost so it shouldn't raise any redflags) then not returning calls/texts is now understandable.

Why is she suddenly known or thought to be 'missing' at this point?

This part of the story just doesn't sit right with me.

A college kid not home in the middle of the afternoon, and no way of knowing if she'd been home or not, just does not add up to 'missing' in and of itself.
Click to expand...
Just speculating, but if JW was one of the only persons who knew about the long QT syndrome and if she had one of those daily medication containers, he might have checked to see if she had taken her medication for Friday. Finding that the Friday medication was still in the container would have made him realize that something might have happened that would prevent her from taking it.

JW knew about the long QT but HT did not
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/LAUREN-SPIERER-dragnet-cocaine-Long QT SYNDROME-fears
http://www.lohud.com/article/20110615/NEWS02/106150326
 
akh said:
It's not up to Salzman and CR to press charges unless they want to do something thru a civil suit. Criminal charges are a decision out of their control and made by the prosecutor's office.
... .
Click to expand...

Right, but a person has to call the police and report it first, right?

I'm sure most drunken fist fights do not get reported. But in this case, getting punched in the face is at the heart of CR's alibi and defense. As the last person to be seen with LS, his account of the night is pretty important, but he can't tell the police, or anyone else because he was punched in the face so hard that he lost his memory for the entire evening after the punch (including the 15 minutes beforehand, when coincidentally, he is seen by witnesses acting aggressively toward the victim and caught on video 'helping' her walk, because she is too intoxicated to walk on her own, and presumably the point that he is confronted by a group of guys about this, and allegedly tells them off)

Yet, CR didn't call the police that night, or the next day. Or ever. When he ran into several people the day(s) after Lauren went missing he and MB told several people that LS had been at his apartment, and had disappeared after leaving. He did tell people he drank too much and went to bed, but none of these people report that he told them about being punched or having amnesia. In the only two accounts of witnesses who talked to CR on June 3rd, both report that he showed no signs of being in a fight. (Chris Malone article and anon at CVS).

The punch became a lot more important when he was named as a POI and got a lawyer.
 
akh said:
I've mentioned this before but I think it's worth thinking about.

Once JW knows LS's phone was lost/left at Kilroy's it then would explain to him why she hasn't replied to his texts.

Then once he gets the key and gets to the apartment to check on her, how does he know she hasn't been there and left already? It's late enough in the afternoon that it would seem a realistic possibility that she could've gotten into bed late, still gotten a few hours sleep and then left for food, shopping, errands, friends, etc..

Since he would now know she'd lost her phone (and lost it in the kind of place phones are often lost so it shouldn't raise any redflags) then not returning calls/texts is now understandable.

Why is she suddenly known or thought to be 'missing' at this point?

This part of the story just doesn't sit right with me.

A college kid not home in the middle of the afternoon, and no way of knowing if she'd been home or not, just does not add up to 'missing' in and of itself.
Click to expand...


At this point , I would think.the only red flag being raised with JW is who slept with my girlfriend last night. I personally would think it would have taken a few more hours of emotions and thoughts before thinking she is missing. I would think that HT would had contacted CR's neighbor JR since their friends. If at that point he tells HT what time she left and elabotates on the condition LS was in.? It would be time to contact LE...And they should had drove straight to JR's and arrested him on charges of Felony Self Centered
or Felony Stupid to allow LS to stumble away barefooted and inebriated with injuries while having no phone to call for help.
 
Ros said:
According to the IM article:

Early afternoon, June 3:
JW repeatedly tries to contact LS
Employee of Kilroy's calls JW to tell him that they have her phone
JW meets HT on campus to get a key so he can check apt
JW checks apartment and does not find LS there

About 4:30 p.m. LS is reported missing to BPD - There is conflicting information about who made the missing person report: JW or Sara ? and Amanda Roude

"Police today said Wolff went to the police station to report Spierer missing. However, Tamir said two friends — Sara and Amanda Roude, a student from Chappaqua — went there to fill out a missing person's report."



http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/Story.aspx?ID=1712477

According to this article, JW called HT to arrange to get her key

http://www.examiner.com/article/lauren-spierer-friend-statement-the-drug-rumor-and-the-police

The original lohud article is gone,<modsnip> , HT said that it was around 2 p.m. when JW wanted to check on LS at her apt.


"Jesse was texting Lauren the next day to see where she was, but he got no answer because the bar had her phone," Tamir said. "After a few texts, the bar texted Jesse back saying your friend left her phone here, tell her to come get it."
Tamir said that's when Wolff contacted her and one of her girlfriends, "asking us if we heard from her."
"We both said we didn't," she said, "and I was in class so he asked me if he could come get my key from me just to check if she was still sleeping in the apartment because it was around 2 p.m. then, and we all sleep late."

<modsnip>
Click to expand...
If a series of asterisks appears in a link like this, www dot asd******* dot com, that means the link directs to a WS banned website.

But...you can link to a post here on WS where the article was first posted. The link appears earlier in the same thread, but as you said, the link no longer works as the article has been archived.

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6686815&postcount=379"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #5[/ame]
 
bessie said:
If a series of asterisks appears in a link like this, www dot asd******* dot com, that means the link directs to a WS banned website.

But...you can link to a post here on WS where the article was first posted. The link appears earlier in the same thread, but as you said, the link no longer works as the article has been archived.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #5
Click to expand...

Thanks for making the corrections. I want to stay within the WS rules, but I am not always sure how to do so.
 
Ros said:
information about who made the missing person report: JW or Sara ? and Amanda Roude

"Police today said Wolff went to the police station to report Spierer missing. However, Tamir said two friends — Sara and Amanda Roude, a student from Chappaqua — went there to fill out a missing person's report."



http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/features/Story.aspx?ID=1712477

Sara was probably Sara Gornish

http://www.lohud.com/article/20110905/NEWS02/109050313/Lauren-Spierer-s-college-friends-Where-you-
Click to expand...
 
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