NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

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Congrats on your verification, MMQC! When you catch your breath -- after the holiday if need be -- I would love it if you could clarify the above post, which was a response from you to Odyssey. Why do you think the mother (or someone else?) thought the BF/F would need an alibi? an alibi for what? for something that happened to SL?

What would that alibi be? Are you talking about the story in which SL runs from the car? Or the later visit to the house? What is the alibi?

And why would the mother help alibi the BF/F? Wouldn't it be in her interest to find out what happened to SL before covering for anybody?

As you can see, I'm super confused here ... any help will be appreciated.



No, NO! Mother woujld not help with alibi. BF/F would need to establish one for time line if foul play. And I think he set me up for that. Follow now? Much time had passed between pick up at home and driving by my parents home to tell me about fight.

As for SL's mother call LE right away? To my recollection, no. Next day not that night. After my Father and I went looking. I talked it over with MY parents about calling SL's home, did not want to worry SL's parents or raise a red flag if not warrented. I called SL home stating I needed to talk to my friend. Saying that I had an issue that I had to talk to my best friend about. No matter what time. Then after several hours passed SL's mother called my home asking WHAT HAPPENED? SL did not return home. It was then I told her about BF/F coming to my home telling me about the fight etc. I took her to the Wagner campus then in the morning and cruised around at our local haunts to see if she was there or if anyone had seen her.

Mother went later to LE to report missing. LE informed her that SL was an adult and was not considered missing until missing for more than 48 hours as I recall. Then they were to bring current photo and a list of what she was wearing etc. Then LE would contact them at their home to follow up and investigate. NOTHING followed. For a day or two. I was in contact with SL's mother about this. My parents lived next door to an ADA. I then asked my dad to come with me to ask ADA to do something. It was then someone finally contacted parents from LE. Other than the cold case Det. Savage calling me in 2010 that I never spoke to LE. They said they would follow up with all names SL's parents gave them. I called BF/F to see if SL contacted him. He was VERY RUDE to me on phone stating he had been made a sucker of he had given her a very expensive ring and she takes off, and don't call again. His mother was having a breakdown about it and not to call again.
 
MMQC

Thank you for sharing your recollections with us
I know it is not easy
We really do appreciate it
 
Skeet and Dushi, I am with you both on this one. In the VI posts above -- shortened BM (where you see "..."), BBM -- two very divergent stories emerge:

(1) ONE HOUR DATE: The BF/F picks SL up at home at 5, and SL is gone (acc to the PR) by 6. And then the BF/F doesn't show up at the family home until 10:30.

(2) FIVE HOUR DATE: The BF/F picks SL up at home at 5, they spend the next FIVE hours together somehow (how doesn't really matter for purposes of "time last seen" if she is actually at the bus stop at 10), and at the end of the date they have a glasses throwing, traffic-storming fight that ends with her running off. Only in this version, SL presumably stands defiantly at a bus stop, while the BF/F runs to the GF for help bringing her to her senses. Then he goes to SL's home and tells what happened.


I don't put a lot of stock in the two different start times of the date (given in ASWDH and MMQC's posts) bc if you read MMQC's post closely, it's clear she's guessing at the time the BF/F picked SL up. But even with her later start time, she says "Long time in between." What's the relevance of that? Even 7-10 seems like a long time between the fight and the bus stop? That makes it sound like she knows the fight started early ... (Please weigh in ASWDH and MMQC, we're just working with what we have.)

One possibility here is the one that Dushi sniffed out last week ... that the "time last seen" on the PR reflects the time EVA last saw SL. While I have a hard time believing LE would define "time last seen" as anything but the time last seen by anyone, it's clear that they did not take this case seriously -- didn't even investigate -- because SL was 22 and perhaps emotionally distraught ("Det. Lennon advises will not handle."). Maybe they didn't press Eva to be specific, or maybe she preferred to give the time she last saw SL bc she didn't trust the time reported by the BF/F. Who knows? But if this is true, it suggests the date started at 6.

The trouble I have with this though, is that -- by all accounts -- the BF/F went to SL's house at 10:30. At that time, you would think he would give Eva pretty much the same story he gave the GF. I mean, why give the details of the fight, then leave out the bit about her standing at the bus stop? IOW, if Eva was told the same story, she would have known SL was last seen around 10 PM, not 6 PM. Did she NOT get the same story? Did she discount it?

Another thing ... just being true to my name here and going by my gut ... of all the stories being tossed about, this is the one that seems most like an alibi to me, bc it narrows the BF/F's window of opportunity. I am not suggesting that anyone is not being forthcoming -- no one else actually saw SL OR the BF/F betw. 5 and 10, as far as we know, regardless of the story -- but this is the period of time that we most need to come into focus, and it's buried in a confusing haze.

At the moment, it feels to me like this is getting more confusing rather than less. I am probably not helping matters. ... but what the heck, I'll add one more thing! Is a one-hour date long enough to drive to the mall (20 mins. by VI's account) and then have a life-shattering fight that ends in two people getting crazy upset and one of them disappearing? And if the date is an hour, WTF happens betw. 6-10? What happens to the GF's story? Could/would the BF/F manufacture these details for the GF in order to create an alibi that is not actually effective anyway? Then go to the SL's house and possibly tell a different story? Why?

Really, if it wasn't for the PR "time last seen," these stories would seem to mesh a little better. What would it take for us to let that detail go?

JMO (and lots of it!)



I did not know exact time of DATE. What I do know is that BF/F did say after movie they had fight she got out of the car and would take the bus home. I truly don't remember BF/F EVER going to parents home that night. Last time seen? To me this means last time EL saw SL. Remember who is filing PR. Not BF/F.
 
Thanks for all that, MMQC.

Are you the same friend that provided a ride to BF/F's male friend, and was told by him that Sylvia's BF/F had the engagement ring?

If so, what was your relationship to the BF/F's male friend, when did that occur in relation to Sylvia's disappearance and was LE ever notified of this?
 
I did not know exact time of DATE. What I do know is that BF/F did say after movie they had fight she got out of the car and would take the bus home. I truly don't remember BF/F EVER going to parents home that night. Last time seen? To me this means last time EL saw SL. Remember who is filing PR. Not BF/F.

So engagement was never officially broken by either BF/F or Sylvia? We hadspeculated about whether or not this was the cause of fight, or Sylvia's flight from his car.
 
No, NO! Mother woujld not help with alibi. BF/F would need to establish one for time line if foul play. And I think he set me up for that. Follow now? Much time had passed between pick up at home and driving by my parents home to tell me about fight.

As for SL's mother call LE right away? To my recollection, no. Next day not that night. After my Father and I went looking. I talked it over with MY parents about calling SL's home, did not want to worry SL's parents or raise a red flag if not warrented. I called SL home stating I needed to talk to my friend. Saying that I had an issue that I had to talk to my best friend about. No matter what time. Then after several hours passed SL's mother called my home asking WHAT HAPPENED? SL did not return home. It was then I told her about BF/F coming to my home telling me about the fight etc. I took her to the Wagner campus then in the morning and cruised around at our local haunts to see if she was there or if anyone had seen her.

Mother went later to LE to report missing. LE informed her that SL was an adult and was not considered missing until missing for more than 48 hours as I recall. Then they were to bring current photo and a list of what she was wearing etc. Then LE would contact them at their home to follow up and investigate. NOTHING followed. For a day or two. I was in contact with SL's mother about this. My parents lived next door to an ADA. I then asked my dad to come with me to ask ADA to do something. It was then someone finally contacted parents from LE. Other than the cold case Det. Savage calling me in 2010 that I never spoke to LE. They said they would follow up with all names SL's parents gave them. I called BF/F to see if SL contacted him. He was VERY RUDE to me on phone stating he had been made a sucker of he had given her a very expensive ring and she takes off, and don't call again. His mother was having a breakdown about it and not to call again.

Yes, that makes so much more sense to me. So the bus stop story could very well be the alibi he was creating for himself. And as far as setting you up goes, he could very well have sent you on a wild goose chase that night by asking you to pick her up at the bus stop. It sounds like you are not convinced that what the BF/F told you when he came to your house that night was true. Thank you.

What do you think he meant by being made a "sucker" of? Was he suggesting SL ran off with someone else?
 
Ok so BF said it was after the movie the fight happened. I wonder what movie they were going to see, what time it started and what time it ended. That would at least give a better time frame for when the fight happened.
 
I did not know exact time of DATE. What I do know is that BF/F did say after movie they had fight she got out of the car and would take the bus home. I truly don't remember BF/F EVER going to parents home that night. Last time seen? To me this means last time EL saw SL. Remember who is filing PR. Not BF/F.

BBM

VI Deer Hunter states that BF/F picked up Sylvia from parents' home at about 5 PM.

Also, the PR filed by Mother indicates that Sylvia was last seen by the movie theatre at 6 PM, not by her Mother [EL].

Additionally, NamUs states that Sylvia was last seen at about 6:30 PM.

There is no indication as per the PR, NamUs nor VI Deer Hunter that Sylvia was last seen by her Mother at 6 PM. Also, there is no indication that BF/F saw Sylvia later than 6 or 6:30 PM.

There is nothing that indicates that Sylvia & her BF/F had even seen a movie that evening. Is that what you were told by him that evening?
 
BBM

Was the friend, who gave a ride to Sylvia's fiance's friend, dating or romantically involved with BF/F's male friend at the time?



I can try to clear this up. I worked for the Worlds Largest Dept. store as an assistant buyer '79-84. Another person working in same store also lived on SI. I had the occasion to rent a car for business travel this particular day and offered fellow Staten Islander a ride home instead of X bus. As it tured out we got stuck in traffic. We started making small talk. Where grow up? Where did you go to School? etc. Turned out his cousin was a friend of mine in HS. He asked me if best friends. I said no, good friends. I then said my Best Friend disappeared in '75. Then I went on to speculate on what "I" thought happened to her. To this point NO NAMES were mentioned. He turned to me and said right into my face BF/F's name. I froze. I had just admitted to him what I thought happened to SL. He then said his Brother had a Band and that BF/F played drums in brother's band and played at his wedding. He then said no so about ring. That BF/F had ring. NOW I am shaking as WHO REALLY WAS BF/F. What he "connected" would I be next? I went home told my husband what had happened and of course i was told that I ran off my mouth AGAIN and get myself in trouble. Stay out of it. It's in the past. Husband was mad for two reasons. I gave ride to someone he did not know and I ran off my mouth. I WAS a very trusting person. Today not so. I spent a lot of time then looking over my shoulder.

When commuting to and from Manhattan I always scanned faces in hopes of seeing my friend. Never really knowing what happened. Still don't. Only speculate. My mind goes to a very dark place when I speculate.
 
Thanks for all that, MMQC.

Are you the same friend that provided a ride to BF/F's male friend, and was told by him that Sylvia's BF/F had the engagement ring?

If so, what was your relationship to the BF/F's male friend, when did that occur in relation to Sylvia's disappearance and was LE ever notified of this?

To my knowledge engagement still on.
 
Yes, that makes so much more sense to me. So the bus stop story could very well be the alibi he was creating for himself. And as far as setting you up goes, he could very well have sent you on a wild goose chase that night by asking you to pick her up at the bus stop. It sounds like you are not convinced that what the BF/F told you when he came to your house that night was true. Thank you.

What do you think he meant by being made a "sucker" of? Was he suggesting SL ran off with someone else?

No just more for his alibi. The hurt BF/F, woe is me. I've been wronged!
As you can tell I am not feeling HIS hurt at all. It just never added up and it still does not add up.
 
To my knowledge engagement still on.

Thanks for your clarification, MMQC, as to who the ride was with, your relationship to him, etc.

By your above post, do you mean the BF/F never told you nor others that you both knew that the engagement had been broken off?

How did the individual riding with you explain why or how the BF/F supposedly had the ring?
 
Welcome again, MMQC!

Had Sylvia's Mother not mentioned prior to your drive with her to Wagner that Sylvia's BF/F had stopped by her home that night to say they had argued?

Who first told Sylvia's Mother that she was missing?

Snipped

I cannot say for sure about the BF/F going to her home. Very foggy about that. To my recollection no. Don't know for sure if BF/F ever went back.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975

She never mentioned to me that BF/F ever came by.

She called me asking what was up as SL never came home and it was very early the next morning.
 
Thanks for your clarification, MMQC, as to who the ride was with, your relationship to him, etc.

By your above post, do you mean the BF/F never told you nor others that you both knew that the engagement had been broken off?

How did the individual riding with you explain why or how the BF/F supposedly had the ring?


He never did give reason for BF/F having ring and at this point I was too scared and shocked to ask. I guess I could have but stunned and scared.

As for the engagement, as far as I knew it was still on. Did not know what fight was about.
 
Do you have knowledge whether or not Sylvia kept a journal or diary? Not what was in it, but did she keep one?
 
He never did give reason for BF/F having ring and at this point I was too scared and shocked to ask. I guess I could have but stunned and scared.

As for the engagement, as far as I knew it was still on. Did not know what fight was about.

Just a side note. During engagement SL misplaced ring. We looked and looked everywhere. As was her custom while doing the dishes she took ring off. She placed it on the kitchen table. SL's father used to save the pull tabs from beer cans and put in coffee can on top of fridge. Scooped off pull tabs after drinking beer that particular night and scooped up ring with it as it was white gold and put unknowingly in coffee can. We never thought to look there. Just by accident when putting more pull tabs in can noticed something shiny....SL says "OMG, it's my engagement ring. I'm never taking it off again for anything."

Level headed young woman. Said something and followed up. True to her word and punctual.
 
Just a side note. During engagement SL misplaced ring. We looked and looked everywhere. As was her custom while doing the dishes she took ring off. She placed it on the kitchen table. SL's father used to save the pull tabs from beer cans and put in coffee can on top of fridge. Scooped off pull tabs after drinking beer that particular night and scooped up ring with it as it was white gold and put unknowingly in coffee can. We never thought to look there. Just by accident when putting more pull tabs in can noticed something shiny....SL says "OMG, it's my engagement ring. I'm never taking it off again for anything."

Level headed young woman. Said something and followed up. True to her word and punctual.

BBM

If you are comfortable saying, how would you describe in a few words Sylvia's relationship with her Father?

And...her Father's feelings/attitude towards Sylvia's choice of future husband?
 
Do you have knowledge whether or not Sylvia kept a journal or diary? Not what was in it, but did she keep one?


I don't think so. Back then a diary or journal would have been a way for parents to find out things you did not want them to know about. It would have had to be on ones person at all times. Not too practical.
 
BBM

If you are comfortable saying, how would you describe in a few words Sylvia's relationship with her Father?

And...her Father's feelings/attitude towards Sylvia's choice of future husband?

SL's father was a quiet man. Not a huggy kissy family, neither was mine. Worked hard for a living. Drove a BIG LONG car with tail fins. Avg. height. Not a tyrant or rule by fist type. More talkative after swigging back a few cold ones.

As for his feelings for future husband. I did not see or know about any confilct.

He worked for Wagner College and certain days SL and he traveled together.
 
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