GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #2

The Cheese said:

Does the home have only one door? I think most houses have at least 2.

Did the brother say the intruder went out a door? Which door? Or did he go out a window? I don't remember it being said how the intruder exited the home.

:sigh:

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Sheriff's officials say the girl was found by her brother after he encountered an intruder in the home around noon Saturday.

When the intruder ran away, the boy found his sister stabbed. She was pronounced dead at a local hospital

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It sounds to me like he ran out the door. Not sure which one, though. I'm assuming there is at least a back door in addition to the front door.

I think with the media and their helicopters, if there was a broken window, they would've gotten it on video.

If this neighbor really does live right across the street, then this account is disturbing. Of course it is possible that the intruder ran out the back door, ran across the open space to Hart Vickson Lane. The homes are pretty close to each other though if you look on Google Maps satellite view.

eileenhawkeye said:

It sounds to me like he ran out the door. Not sure which one, though. I'm assuming there is at least a back door in addition to the front door.

I think with the media and their helicopters, if there was a broken window, they would've gotten it on video.

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When the intruder ran away

It sounds to me like the intruder ran away, but it doesn't give me any indication of how he exited the house - door or window.

You don't have to break a window to exit it. You just have to open it, or it has to already be open.

I'll keep looking to see if I can find anything saying what the brother said about whether the guy went out a door or a window and if so, which door or which window.

Trying to find pics of the house to see how many doors it has too, and how many windows and where.

eileenhawkeye said:

If this neighbor really does live right across the street, then this account is disturbing. Of course it is possible that the intruder ran out the back door, ran across the open space to Hart Vickson Lane. The homes are pretty close to each other though if you look on Google Maps satellite view.

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Accounts like this that leave me with a whole lot of questions and no useful information are very disturbing to me. I wish the reporter had asked some questions to try to get some clarity.

I wouldn't think he would have run out the front door. Doesn't the back door go out into an open bushy type area?

Here are pics of the house. No doors or windows facing the street.

A door, window, plus a garage he could have exited on one side of the house. The garage opens to the side of the house, not the street side.

Looks like a deck on the back of the house. I'd assume there's at least one door going out the back there.

Looks like another door on the side of the house facing directly opposite the street.

So with no point of egress on the side of the house facing the street, why did this guy expect to see anyone leaving the house? I wonder where exactly this neighbor's house is, and which part of the house you can see from his front yard. Trying to figure out how he could possibly see both the front and back sides of the house with the way the house is positioned.

http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news...19994522/-/ifmmypz/-/index.html#ixzz2SBrovQpI

I been reading this Leila's thread since day 1, and now is like day 12 already, and still no major progress.
Till now, how this case progress, it lead me to further assure that Leila's death is Not random at all. I feel she was target (or they hate the family), and the person killed her, could be someone she knows or the family knows.

Let's look at it, this whole town area, all the neighbors live there long time, including those that grown up there in this small city All said they never encounter something like this. All the people in the this city said they always feel safe, there were not any big robbery, let alone a child being murder like this really shock them, and scares them.
So goes by this statement, if it a random crime, or a meth head robbery do it, the likely chance that it would already happened before, no need to wait for Leila's family to move in and murder happened (some neighbor said they live here like 20-30 years already, and never have anything like Leila's case happened in the past).
Does it said how long Leila's family live here, rent this house here?

Also, I doubt, very doubt a meth head do this. No way a meth head have a mindset and brain so clearly to plan out how to hide the knives, hide his clothes, how to run out of the house so cleanly.
So this killer must know Leila's house layouts, well enough to get away so cleanly. I'm amaze that the killer have all the time to get rid of the knives weapons, and bloody clothes. If it was a meth head, they usually clumpsy, especially if they at the time of need drugs, and desperate enough to go into someone house to robbery, no way a meth head can killed Leila's and get away so clean.

I live in southern California. Los Angeles to be exact. And I live in low income area, so I can tell you, I see meth heads before, those that smoking pots and stuff, no way they have the brain to stab a little girl many times to death, and able to get away so cleanly.

The Cheese said:

Here are pics of the house. No doors or windows facing the street.

A door, window, plus a garage he could have exited on one side of the house. The garage opens to the side of the house, not the street side.

Looks like a deck on the back of the house. I'd assume there's at least one door going out the back there.

Looks like another door on the side of the house facing directly opposite the street.

So with no point of egress on the side of the house facing the street, why did this guy expect to see anyone leaving the house? I wonder where exactly this neighbor's house is, and which part of the house you can see from his front yard. Trying to figure out how he could possibly see both the front and back sides of the house with the way the house is positioned.

http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news...19994522/-/ifmmypz/-/index.html#ixzz2SBrovQpI

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Thanks for the pics, Cheese.

JMO, but I think the neighbor probably could have seen an intruder leaving via the 'front' or 'back' door because the house is situated almost perpendicular to the street. So his front-on view is one narrow end of the house. It looks like the entryway porch (behind that blue tent) is open, too, with a railing, not covered. You can see the rectangular shadow from the tent on the porch. I'm thinking if he was in his yard, it's likely he'd have seen someone running from the front or back--the movement in open space would catch his wolf-dog's attention if not his. MOO

eileenhawkeye said:

If this neighbor really does live right across the street, then this account is disturbing. Of course it is possible that the intruder ran out the back door, ran across the open space to Hart Vickson Lane. The homes are pretty close to each other though if you look on Google Maps satellite view.

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From my view of the satellite image, there is a grove of trees across from the swimming pool. A person could walk from the front of the house to the pond on Baldwin under the cover of trees. A brazen walk through private property. The pond appears to have a path around the perimeter. I imagine someone could walk this path without attracting attention. There appears to be a parking area at the pond off Ferris Drive. Dixon Court provides another access point. Then...... the Silverado?

The Cheese said:

Here are pics of the house. No doors or windows facing the street.

A door, window, plus a garage he could have exited on one side of the house. The garage opens to the side of the house, not the street side.

Looks like a deck on the back of the house. I'd assume there's at least one door going out the back there.

Looks like another door on the side of the house facing directly opposite the street.

So with no point of egress on the side of the house facing the street, why did this guy expect to see anyone leaving the house? I wonder where exactly this neighbor's house is, and which part of the house you can see from his front yard. Trying to figure out how he could possibly see both the front and back sides of the house with the way the house is positioned.

http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news...19994522/-/ifmmypz/-/index.html#ixzz2SBrovQpI

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The front door might not be facing the street, but if you exit out the front door, you are either running down the driveway to Rippon Road (where the neighbor lives) or you're running through the open space which is basically a backyard to many homes on to the other street. If this neighbor does live across the street, and was in his front yard when this happened, then that means the intruder did not leave via Rippon Road.

Good post, CNNAnh. I also don't think it was a random or meth-head event. And agree that it appears the killer had some time available to clean up somewhat--at least to hide or modify crucial evidence.

And that's all I'll say for now. Hoping this comes to a conclusion by the end of this week. It's been a long time to deal with the stress for this little town.

dinaslala said:

Sorry, Im still not verified but sadly, that is one of the FACTS..through my personal connection I know to be true..we knew that last week..

But what I find interesting is the gentleman talking about what he saw or rather didnt see or hear that day.... http://www.kcra.com/news/leilas-nei...20071972/-/l17ewnz/-/index.html?absolute=true

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Oh, my. That doesn't sound random at all.

Edited to ask:
So if neither of the neighbors' dogs barked at a stranger, did they recognize someone, instead?

blue22 said:

I don't know. I just saw a video on KCRA, where they said she was stabbed 21 times! They have been sooo tight lipped about her injuries and the evidence, I seriously doubt that's reliable information. It seems like the media is just saying whatever they hear, with little fact checking.

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I hate to say it, but "21 times", was what I was told by my source in Valley Springs when this first happened. Deem it unreliable if you want, but I believe it.

I'm going to hold my thoughts (as best I can!) until the police make an announcement or arrest. This really isn't sounding good.

Can someone refresh my memory, what time did this happen at? Was the 911 call ever released?

Speaking of meth...Ceres, CA is 1 hour, 9 minutes from Valley Springs. 61.8 miles. Only 61.8 miles.

Stanislaus County drug agents find 290 pounds of meth inside home
Ceres house busted off an anonymous tip
UPDATED 9:18 PM PDT May 08, 2013

>>>snip

...Agency officials say the street value of meth is about $9,000 per pound, making the drugs seized worth about $2.6 million...

...A spokesman for the (Stanislaus Drug Enforcement) agency says the bust is the largest methamphetamine seizure in its 40-year existence...

<<<...snip

Read more: http://www.kcra.com/news/stanislaus.../20071828/-/8ako4b/-/index.html#ixzz2SlvdFpTa

These guys are not tweakers. IMO. Not even.

Kaliste said:

I'm going to hold my thoughts (as best I can!) until the police make an announcement or arrest. This really isn't sounding good.

Can someone refresh my memory, what time did this happen at? Was the 911 call ever released?

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911 calls weren't released, to my knowledge.

Here's a little timeline:

9-12 Family has LL game to attend (whose?). Probably up early.

12ish Parents @ game; 12yo calls parents

12ish &#8220;nghbr&#8221; reports seeing dad with bloody shirt at edge of her driveway asking, &#8220;Did you see anything?&#8221; *Not sure if this is same nghbr who later recants...

12:15 Parents call 911

12:18ish LE dispatcher calls12 yo; girl has &#8216;serious&#8217; injuries

12:30ish Parents arr home; Leila &#8220;rushed&#8221; to hospital still alive; arrives at 12:55

1:01 PM Leila pronounced dead

PoirotryInMotion said:

911 calls weren't released, to my knowledge.

Here's a little timeline:

9-12 Family has LL game to attend (whose?). Probably up early.

12ish Parents @ game; 12yo calls parents

12ish “nghbr” reports seeing dad with bloody shirt at edge of her driveway asking, “Did you see anything?” *Not sure if this is same nghbr who later recants...

12:15 Parents call 911

12:18ish LE dispatcher calls12 yo; girl has ‘serious’ injuries

12:30ish Parents arr home; Leila “rushed” to hospital still alive; arrives at 12:55

1:01 PM Leila pronounced dead

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It's not the same neighbor. In an interview, the neighbor who said BF came to her driveway also said "I wish I could have seen the guy"

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Neighborhood-leery-after-Leila-Fowler-killing

eileenhawkeye said:

It's not the same neighbor. In an interview, the neighbor who said BF came to her driveway also said "I wish I could have seen the guy"

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Neighborhood-leery-after-Leila-Fowler-killing

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Thanks! I just now came on here to post same thing/same link!

Christy Lawson lives three doors down from where Fowler was killed and said she witnessed a harrowing scene at about noon Saturday.
Lawson said a man who she believed to be Barney Fowler, Leila’s father, came to the edge of her driveway.
“He was white as a ghost,” she said. “He had blood on his shirt, her body imprint was on his shirt, like you could tell he was cradling that little girl.”
“He said, ‘Have you seen anything?’ I said, ‘No.’ I said, ‘Is she OK? Is she OK?’” Lawson recalled. “He said, ‘No. She’s not OK.’”
http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Neighborhood-leery-after-Leila-Fowler-killing

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I still feel this is not random, 99.9% not random at all.
Come on, Leila's stab 21 times (if this is true), there has to be blood on the killer shirt and knives, and all the major evidence are still not find, this killer is good, good enough to hide or get rid of the evidence every well.

And if Leila's stab 21 times, I'm sure she must scream alot, basic logic here. How can the brother not hear? He must blast his video games or have his Ipod on very loud.
Also, for a killer to stab a little girl 21 times, it is Not random. If it just meth head want to kill her to silence her, then a few stab is enough to take her life, why repeated stabing her 21 times. He must hate her, or hate someone in her family.
The more and more this case is progress, it show that it is not random.
Those that said it random, maybe can educated me and give me insight on why you think it just some random robbery kill Leila just to silence her.

Also, I just watch that clips of the old neighbor speaking. If he is telling the truth (which I don't see why he would lie), but if that is the true, then this show the killer know Leila's house layouts. He even know which way to run out to avoid the neighbor's dog.
Dogs usually barks at stranger that come around the area of their house. I know for sure because I have a neighbor who dog bark at every single things, LOL!

This killer killed a girl, so he won't be walking out of the house, pretty sure he run his butt off. If that is so, the neighbor's dog would notice and bark a lot.
But in the video, the neighbor say his dog didn't bark at all. So my guess the killer is 1. someone in the neighborhood that the dog see before, or a 2. friend of a family that come over sometimes and the dog recognize, or 3. he did Not get out of the direction of the dog.
Either way, the killer know his way out.

We have to wait and see, but my bet is on someone (knows Leila or knows the family) revengeful and purposely want to killed Leila for what ever reasons. No way a meth head have the brain to do this, let alone get away cleanly over 12 days.

Not random, and 21 stabs would seem to indicate a crime of passion. :cow:

LE discounted robbery/burglary motive early on:

www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Hundreds-mourn

http://www.modbee.com/2013/04/29/2692480/police-guard-calif-school-during.html