The Incinerator

dizzy1 said:

BBM

MOO, but it's possible they were referring to DM when they state it was purchased by an employee of Millard Air. MOO

ETA Didn't read far enough down, AE already suggested what I was thinking. I agree AE!

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Juballee said:

... who in their right mind would kill a man over a truck .... That does not make sense .... Neither does it make sense ...

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ArianeEmory said:

What the basis for the statement that Dellen never went to his farm?

Does that mean you think he was completely unaware of the existence of the incinerator, the excavator, etc?

How did the trusted employee, once he purchased the incinerator a year in advance, meet up with Tim Bosma to kill him and take his body to the incinerator after the test drive? Or does this theory rest on DM having not been involved in the test drive? Maybe the assistant drew on an "Ambition" tattoo and accidentally added a box around it?

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dizzy1 said:

BBM

MOO, but it's possible they were referring to DM when they state it was purchased by an employee of Millard Air. MOO

ETA Didn't read far enough down, AE already suggested what I was thinking. I agree AE!

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ArianeEmory said:

Yeah, I read it as the Incinerator company not wanting to commit to naming a name. I don't really blame them--they're not obligated to disclose that info to the public.

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sillybilly said:

I agree ... possibly not knowing whether there might be some legal repurcussions. Had they said "an executive of Millard Air", would have still pointed directly at DM, so by saying "employee" they thought that would cover the whole enchilada.

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Juballee said:

But it was later corrected that the incinerator was purchased by an employee, not DM himself. Therefore it was likely an employee asking the question, not DM. Are we to assume the employee was planning on burning a human body almost a year after he ordered it? And the answer to what said employee was trying to eliminate could have been that the MRO would have occasionally had to hygienically dispose of animal and fowl remains after repairing flight strike damage to aircraft.

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Snoofo said:

MSM reports "an employee of Millardair" made the purchase arrangements.

DM leased most of the land to farmers.

Therefore it is possible DM doesn't go to the farm regularly especially since leased, and did not know this thing has been sitting on his property since last summer.

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SnooperDuper said:

I don't think it would be up to the MRO to dispose of any bits and pieces of birds...that is usually sent off for identification and analysis to try and discover the type of bird and how to prevent future strikes and create some kind of official report. The bird is evidence, not garbage.

Google "snarge" and you'll discover that what remains after a bird strike is best described as "residue", i.e., some blood and perhaps feather, way too little material to incinerate.

Personally I think the vendor's use of "employee of Millardair" is just an attempt to backtrack and provide as little info as possible as directed by LE

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SnooperDuper said:

I don't think it would be up to the MRO to dispose of any bits and pieces of birds...that is usually sent off for identification and analysis to try and discover the type of bird and how to prevent future strikes and create some kind of official report. The bird is evidence, not garbage.

Google "snarge" and you'll discover that what remains after a bird strike is best described as "residue", i.e., some blood and perhaps feather, way too little material to incinerate.

Personally I think the vendor's use of "employee of Millardair" is just an attempt to backtrack and provide as little info as possible as directed by LE

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Juballee said:

How much of a sample is needed for analysis? They only need a small scraping of a DNA sample to send to the lab. In my opinion, the lab would not be sent every remaining piece of animal matter like an episode of CSI, they are not trying to determine the bird's cause if death, only it's species. A small part of the bird is used for evidence, and the rest is 'garbage', or remains, which will have to still be disposed of somehow by someone; they don't magically disappear. Who cleans up the rest of the residue, and even if it can be washed off with rags, what do you do with those rags when you are done to dispose of them safely and hygienically?

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ArianeEmory said:

What the basis for the statement that Dellen never went to his farm?

Does that mean you think he was completely unaware of the existence of the incinerator, the excavator, etc?

How did the trusted employee, once he purchased the incinerator a year in advance, meet up with Tim Bosma to kill him and take his body to the incinerator after the test drive? Or does this theory rest on DM having not been involved in the test drive? Maybe the assistant drew on an "Ambition" tattoo and accidentally added a box around it?

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swedie said:

[/U]

UBM :silly::lol: As silly as that sounds... good one AE.
:takeabow::drumroll: BBM Excellent AE! I was just thinking the same thing as I was reading through the posts. Everything comes together so nicely just like a jigsaw puzzle. One piece is missing though and that piece is why did DM and MS want a truck? IF DM had money, why didn't he just go buy one? I believe that is where the confusion came in early in the investigation, reports claiming he had money. Maybe so. Then that could lead to the "thrill kill" theory. OR DM being the innocent duped and MS the murderer.

I would bet my last dollar DM and MS drew the attention of the neighbour's dog(s) that night. Being as this is in the country most farms or country homes tend to have dogs. Were there a few neighbours' dogs barking and carrying on that night? In my estimation, TB's truck was reported seen in Brantford at approximately 10:10pm. If they drove from Brantford to DM's farmland, it would place them there somewhere around 11:00pm. It's reasonable they would not want to dillydally; they would want to get rid of evidence asap. It's not uncommon for people to still be awake at that time of night. Did the neighbour become more concerned what was going on on the property because he heard/saw/smelled some sort of activity? Heard voices or vehicles, saw vehicle or lights or a fire, did he smelled something burning? Did he drive over to the property to get a better look that night but may have been somewhat fearful to go too far back? Is this when DM and MS panicked, feeling like they better get out of there in case the person checking out the property called LE? This would explain why the "job" was left unfinished and evidence remained (TB's remains). I am sure LE have plenty of evidence from the farmland to show DM and MS were there. Shoe prints, tire tracks from possibly the Yukon, fingerprints/DNA on the incinerator (knobs and handles), maybe a weapon with prints. All :moo:

This makes perfect sense then why the concerned neighbour might have went over to DM's property the next day (or so) to see what all the commotion was about, making the dog(s) bark. Great for him if that was the case. In this day and age one can never be too cautious. He probably knew DM had equipment (Bobcat) on his property and thought someone was trying to steal it or they were up to no good. OMG it's a good thing he didn't go over to DM's property that night It would have been to late to help TB as I believe he was murdered in his truck based on reports. BUT he could have caught the perps red handed (if he lived to tell about it) JMHO. Thank goodness for concerned neighbours who watch out for their fellow neighbour. Could it be this woman had no comment because it was her hubby who discovered more than the incinerator, they heard about TB's disappearance and pretty much knew what had happened? Maybe they were the ones who lead LE to DM's property?

A woman answered the front door of the house on a well-groomed property on a hill overlooking the police investigation. Her dog barked at her side.
Yes, she knew what was going on at the bottom of the hill.
No, she did not care to comment.

Police say video evidence shows Bosma, 32, was followed from his home by an SUV-type vehicle when he took two men for a test drive May 6 in a truck he was trying to sell online. Police believe Bosma was targeted, but the motive for the crime remains unknown.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-story/3246435-bosma-found-dead-in-waterloo-region/

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Snoofo said:

I didnt think AE was joking when she asked.
I dont disagree that there was a raucous that alerted neighbourhood dogs, I just dont understand how you see that as proof it was DM and MS.

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swedie said:

[/U]

UBM :silly::lol: As silly as that sounds... good one AE.
:takeabow::drumroll: BBM Excellent AE! I was just thinking the same thing as I was reading through the posts. Everything comes together so nicely just like a jigsaw puzzle. One piece is missing though and that piece is why did DM and MS want a truck? IF DM had money, why didn't he just go buy one? I believe that is where the confusion came in early in the investigation, reports claiming he had money. Maybe so. Then that could lead to the "thrill kill" theory. OR DM being the innocent duped and MS the murderer.

I would bet my last dollar DM and MS drew the attention of the neighbour's dog(s) that night. Being as this is in the country most farms or country homes tend to have dogs. Were there a few neighbours' dogs barking and carrying on that night? In my estimation, TB's truck was reported seen in Brantford at approximately 10:10pm. If they drove from Brantford to DM's farmland, it would place them there somewhere around 11:00pm. It's reasonable they would not want to dillydally; they would want to get rid of evidence asap. It's not uncommon for people to still be awake at that time of night. Did the neighbour become more concerned what was going on on the property because he heard/saw/smelled some sort of activity? Heard voices or vehicles, saw vehicle or lights or a fire, did he smelled something burning? Did he drive over to the property to get a better look that night but may have been somewhat fearful to go too far back? Is this when DM and MS panicked, feeling like they better get out of there in case the person checking out the property called LE? This would explain why the "job" was left unfinished and evidence remained (TB's remains). I am sure LE have plenty of evidence from the farmland to show DM and MS were there. Shoe prints, tire tracks from possibly the Yukon, fingerprints/DNA on the incinerator (knobs and handles), maybe a weapon with prints. All :moo:

This makes perfect sense then why the concerned neighbour might have went over to DM's property the next day (or so) to see what all the commotion was about, making the dog(s) bark. Great for him if that was the case. In this day and age one can never be too cautious. He probably knew DM had equipment (Bobcat) on his property and thought someone was trying to steal it or they were up to no good. OMG it's a good thing he didn't go over to DM's property that night It would have been to late to help TB as I believe he was murdered in his truck based on reports. BUT he could have caught the perps red handed (if he lived to tell about it) JMHO. Thank goodness for concerned neighbours who watch out for their fellow neighbour. Could it be this woman had no comment because it was her hubby who discovered more than the incinerator, they heard about TB's disappearance and pretty much knew what had happened? Maybe they were the ones who lead LE to DM's property?

A woman answered the front door of the house on a well-groomed property on a hill overlooking the police investigation. Her dog barked at her side.
Yes, she knew what was going on at the bottom of the hill.
No, she did not care to comment.

Police say video evidence shows Bosma, 32, was followed from his home by an SUV-type vehicle when he took two men for a test drive May 6 in a truck he was trying to sell online. Police believe Bosma was targeted, but the motive for the crime remains unknown.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-story/3246435-bosma-found-dead-in-waterloo-region/

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Snoofo said:

Or maybe hey dealt with a certain employee, who asked the initial questions by phone, and the rest of the arrangements were settled by email...with dell.millard@'s email account. If I was a dealer that would make me think I was dealing with Dell Millard. Wouldn't you?

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Juballee said:

With such differences and contradictions between the two articles, for example one lists the price as half of what the other lists it as, how can we really take anything the MSM states as facts at face value to begin with? Weren't all these articles published after the publication ban, anyway? I also notice that the Sun article does not name the police officer who claimed DM bought it, so it is an unnamed source.

What I would go by in these two articles is that the one that says DM purchased it was days after his arrest, before there was time to thoroughly investigate it, but that the second article is published over a month later, when hopefully, there had been time to fully track the purchase and see who actually made it. So I would personally think that the more correct version is the one written later, when the initial hype had died down and there was time to actually check some of the facts. I also believe the later article had the more accurate price of the machine. I specifically remember it being reported (although far more quietly than than any damning information) when it was first revealed that DM did not make the actual purchase himself, it was newsworthy enough to report on the evening news from what I recall. So I think that we should be able to agree that it was purchased by an employee, not DM himself.

I wonder if we can also agree that while being the person to purchase an incinerator made DM look horribly guilty, does knowing he didn't buy it make him look less guilty? Or has the damage already been done? After all, everyone recalls the articles that stated he bought it, no one seems to remember the articles correcting that to say he didn't buy it.

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swedie said:

Maybe I could help you with this. The $6,950 original figure was for just the incinerator. The other figure of approximately $15,000, was for the incinerator, plus transportation fees and the trailer it sits on and taxes, Also duty may be in that figure if it came across the border. Did DM purchase other items to go with the incinerator which were extra?! Maybe an additional propane tank, fittings, tools? What I find revealing is the company would not announce how the incinerator was delivered to the farm. Delivered by vehicle would be a hefty delivery charge. Say the Manitoba distributor did not carry the model DM preferred, therefore BP had to order it and DM wanted it delivered straight from Georgia. The fact that the Georgia company tracked the serial number, tells me the Manitoba company probably didn't have a record of it as it never came into their possession or physically passed through their hands. It all adds up. HTH :moo:

Information obtained by the Sun indicates Millard purchased the propane-heated incinerator for $6,950 from a Manitoba distributor of the US-made product.

BP of Tri-Star Dairy in Grunthal, Man. said he did not personally meet with Millard and would not reveal details of the actual purchase or how it was delivered to his farm.

The designer and builder, SuperNova Manufacturing of Camilla, Georgia, said they have co-operated with Hamilton Police in helping them track down the serial number on the incinerator.

"It was sold from our Canadian distributor," said Tim Cook, who said the event has shaken the whole company.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/05/20130517-073330.html

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Juballee said:

While you seem to be missing my point, you point helps to strengthen it, somewhat. My point was that the second article seemed to be more accurate in my opinion because they would have had time to check out some facts (hopefully) in the month or so between the two articles. The first article sounds like the Sun called the manufacturer who probably gave them the suggested retail price, and then called the Manitoba distributer who likely looked at the name on the bill and told them it was bought by DM. The second story seems to have dug deeper and come up with what is more likely the price that was actually paid after customizing and delivery, and coincided with the quiet announcement in the media that the incinerator was purchased by an employee. I am certain that if it was actually purchased by DM himself, they would have pushed that fact and given it more coverage.

I don't personally think the company was now trying to cover their butts by not saying DM's name, both articles were published after the publication ban came in place. The fact seems to be, regardless, that it was bought by someone else other than DM, but since that isn't what people want to hear, that fact seems to get swept under the rug pretty quickly when everyone wants to talk about the incinerator. It is the same thing with the stolen Harley, everyone forgets to mention that the trailer was registered in someone's name an hour after it was stolen, yet I am certain that if it was registered in the name of one of the suspects, they would say that it was one of the suspects, and again, give it more air time. To me it seems the couple of facts that tend to point away from his guilt are very quickly forgotten and under reported.

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SnooperDuper said:

What strikes me as odd is that both papers spoke to the same two people: Bill Penner and Tim Cook - yet wrote up accounts with different prices (can be explained) different incinerator models (cannot be explained) and different information as to who made the purchase. You can argue it both ways: that Warmington (the Sun) got the jump on everybody and got details before the company put its guard up, or the Globe girls chiseled away until they got the facts. In a video interview the Globe reporters said no one was interested in talking to them and they had to badger the company. The company may have been hesitant to go on record with exact details as to who bought what. I don't think there will be any clarity on this until the trial.

It is important for LE not to lay out their entire case in the press for fear of poisoning the jury pool. There are a lot of things we simply cannot know because of this. I don't think it is a case of things being under-reported (because this case has had a ton of coverage) but that honestly, LE has to save it for the trial. We don't have the RIGHT to know many things, and in the meantime, everyone including the press is doing a lot of guessing and theorizing. DM's lawyer has already complained about the amount of information LE has released to the press, while LE has said they have to do so to counter the position that DM's lawyer has taken in the press. If DM's lawyer had been less chatty we would be waiting to hear of many things for the first time at trial time, rather than hearing LE refute the lawyer's position repeatedly. Remember: the trial has not yet begun. Just because information has not been released does not mean it does not exist, or that it exonerates DM because it has not been released. I think that is the flaw in the thinking of many of DM's supporters. LE is saving details for the trial, as they should, not quashing them because they speak of DM's "innocence". I think that once the trial begins, DM will be nailed to a wall.

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