GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
ggeorge said:
I am pretty certain that those cameras were filming what happened, but that evidence was one way or another suppressed. Whether he did that during the period between his exiting the apartment shirtless and re-entering, or between his release after the death but before the formal arrest.
Click to expand...

sorry for being cocky but OHHHHH I CALLED IT. :loveyou::loveyou::bananalama::bananalama:
 
EveD said:
Is there anyone here who actually has some legal knowledge or background? Just wondering their take on the trial by judge alone. I understand that there have to be 'exceptional circumstances' and the reason given in the media is that SG was running out of money. But from a totally IMPARTIAL point of view, not making any presumption as to guilt etc, but taking into account the negative publicity this case has, plus some of the negative statements made by various witnesses (counselor, personal trainer etc) - to me it would make sense that he would want a trial by judge alone (rather than by jury). I imagine that 'Guilty beyond reasonable doubt' outcome would be more likely with a jury than with judge alone as I imagine that a judge would be able to separate the trial publicity from the facts of the case more easily than a jury of peers. Just my opinion but I would really like other people's opinions.
Click to expand...


If you read the austlii link, the reason he was granted a judge alone trial commences at paragragh 21. It was more to do with funding or lack thereof as he has been denied Legal Aid, although that was reviewed and he was again denied. A judge alone trial is some weeks shorter than a jury trial, and therefore less costly. Hope that helps.
 
SouthAussie said:
Fake, fake, fake, fake ... feel like I'm watching a pantomime. "Here, let me pick these bits off your face, how do I look? Are they filming? Let's have a smooch."

She doesn't look concerned or personally invested in his court dramas at all. Not sure what they are trying to prove - but they certainly do not portray a united family who is concerned about the upcoming lengthy jail term of SG. Just taking a stroll along the street on a nice Spring day. I wonder in what capacity he has known her for the previous 5 years? 'Friend', indeed!

All my opinion only.
Click to expand...

How insulting and totally disrespectful and inappropriate to Lisa's poor mother. Obviously another narcissistic predator. MOO
 
ggeorge said:
Trial by judge is much more beneficial to the defense in this case, and I think the lack of money thing was a tactic to force trial by judge. As a lawyer in the USA, I'm amazed that defendants don't get a choice? A jury will convict after seeing a video of him grab a woman that way and then evaluate the circumstances around her death. A judge, eh, more likely to evaluate the arguments based on the preponderance of evidence. Thing is, the evidence is stacked against the defendant.
Click to expand...

Hi ggeorge & welcome to Websleuths...nice to have you on board :)

I guess I should also address this question to all members in Lisa's thread.

With all we've been told to date, in your opinion, what would you say is the most compelling piece of evidence against the accused??

ETA: If anyone dares to say "the kettle"...welllllll Kimster sometimes lends me her zapper :D:
 
Two things have popped to mind that I wanted to mention - not particularly related.

<modsnip>

Now that the off topic tangential possible link is out of the way, I wanted to chime in on the discussions about SG getting off - which I don't really want to consider.

Surely if that was to eventuate, there is still enough evidence for charges around: assault, imprisonment/deprivation of liberty, stalking, illegal surveillance (based on Lisa's note, I doubt that there were the appropriate signs of "security cameras in use in this area" inside the apartment - which would hopefully mean a potential charge for every individual recorded without consent (the cleaner, the tradesmen and everyone else!!!)

I know it's no where near the same as him going away for a death, that regardless of whether he was found innocent of throwing over, he absolutely contributed to both long term and in the events of that morning - but it's at least something, right?

Those who know the Australian legal system - none of these charges would be considered double jeapordy if found innocent of murder?


I can have an open mind, and state, while I think it's extremely unlikely, that a person so thoroughly trapped. Who was making her one shot at a long planned exit from hell - and who was captured, physically assaulted and dragged back into hell might give up. Might imagine that death was better than living another moment in the nightmare that was her life. Might be desperate enough to take the final way out, as she knew by attempting to escape the few precious freedoms she still retained (personal trainer = human contact, computer to email her mum, phone to connect to the outside world) would be taken away as punishment - as that seems to have been the pattern of the relationship so far with the deliberate isolation from friends and psychological help.

I can conceive of her being so desperate as to jump.

But I feel that SGs actions that morning directly impacted the hypothetical suicide. I am reluctant to state that sentence out loud due to the huge reverberating impacts of suicide and the guilt and sensations of failure that plague those left behind. But there is a distinction there because I think that the forcible dragging back into an apartment with a hand over the mouth to prevent screaming is a common precursor. These circumstances are extreme. Nevertheless I do apologise if this statement has hurt anyone or opened any wounds.

I just hope that there is the room in our justice system that if he is found not guilty, he goes away for at least 15 years regardless.
 
Another thing I wanted to mention is I found it quite bizarre the defence harping on about her jumping from cars / running through traffic during an argument as if this somehow painted their client in a good light.

Both of these are drastic actions with potentially harmful effects. I counter the bringing forward of this information with the statement:

How afraid of her personal safety in the hands of SG must she have been to risk herself like that?

How scared would you have to be to do the same? Knowing you risk serious injury.

These statements portray SG as a monster far more than they paint Lisa as mentally unstable in my eyes.
 
marlywings said:
I guess I should also address this question to all members in Lisa's thread.

With all we've told to date, in your opinion, what would you say is the most compelling piece of evidence against the accused??
Click to expand...

1) The removal of the hard-drive and it's subsequent disappearance. (Where, by the way, are the obstruction of justice / tampering with evidence charges to his brother?)

And a close second:

2) the lack of any prints, partial prints or smudges from the railing itself. Or blood and skin fragments on the ledge beneath it to correlate with a slip/loss of balance. Just anything to say that Lisa went over willingly. (Especially with the "lost her balance" statement.)

3) the miraculously missing footage from the apartment. If the system was set up to record 24/7 - (and I'm not sure whether this is true or an assumption but it sort of clears up the admission of waking up and watching *advertiser censored* if there was evidence of it - certainly doesn't paint him in a great light but the need to explain why your hands were in your pants at 5 am on video may have needed to be stated). Side tangent - has the type of *advertiser censored* he was watching been admitted as evidence, perhaps of a sadistic personality :p

Those are the big ones for me to date. Curious to see what other sleuthers have honed in on!
 
marlywings said:
Oh for goodness sake!!! Talk about desperate!! "quick open the kettle's lid, that'll help prove I was in the kitchen making a good ole cup o tea"

I could say a whole lot more but I'd have to <modsnip> myself...lol.
Click to expand...

BBM:

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:
 
marlywings said:
Hi ggeorge & welcome to Websleuths...nice to have you on board :)

I guess I should also address this question to all members in Lisa's thread.

With all we've told to date, in your opinion, what would you say is the most compelling piece of evidence against the accused??
Click to expand...

2 independent witnesses reports would be the strongest at the moment possibly.

I am also interested in a few other points:
The hard drive in the ceiling - which SG did not tell the police about - had his brother remove - had a friend of his brother view - which cannot be found now.
Wouldn't removing that piece of equipment be tampering with evidence?

Another trip up would be that if he didn't have the computer on that morning - why be 'worried' about not trusting the Police with it (as SG had said) - supposedly if it wasn't on...
I wonder what was on the hard disk then?
 
marlywings said:
Hi ggeorge & welcome to Websleuths...nice to have you on board :)

I guess I should also address this question to all members in Lisa's thread.

With all we've been told to date, in your opinion, what would you say is the most compelling piece of evidence against the accused??

ETA: If anyone dares to say "the kettle"...welllllll Kimster sometimes lends me her zapper :D:
Click to expand...

Marly, not Koppers logs, lol.
I feel that her handbag is the most telling piece of evidence against SG. A desperate person who was being restrained would, in pulling away from her captor, throw any impediment aside and run like hell in my opinion.
If you look at the photo of the handbag, she would have had to be hanging on to it somehow, whilst negotiating her climb/leap from the balcony, al without leaving a print. The handbag tells the story. See photo below.
 

Attachments

  • MOR-20lisa-20harnum-20handbag-20131101162423714201-300x0.jpg
    MOR-20lisa-20harnum-20handbag-20131101162423714201-300x0.jpg
    36.1 KB · Views: 19
marlywings said:
Hi ggeorge & welcome to Websleuths...nice to have you on board :)

I guess I should also address this question to all members in Lisa's thread.

With all we've been told to date, in your opinion, what would you say is the most compelling piece of evidence against the accused??

ETA: If anyone dares to say "the kettle"...welllllll Kimster sometimes lends me her zapper :D:
Click to expand...

1. The lack of her fingerprints on the railings.

2. The witness reports, which are corroborated by the lack of fingerprints.

3. Lisa's desperation and terror to get away from SG that morning i.e. banging on the neighbours door and screaming "please god, help me".

I find the removal of the hard drive VERY suspicious. But I wonder if that held evidence of him being abusive and demeaning in the weeks/months prior, and not the murder. It's also very telling of his personality that he said he didn't trust the police, imo.
 
Why is his now girlfriend taking the stand?

.
 
enzeder said:
Is this the only proof they have that SG was making a cup of tea during the 69 seconds?. A kettle with an open lid. :rolleyes:

Attached Image: A picture of a kettle with an open lid was tendered to the court as evidence for the defence.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/simon-git...move-hard-drive-from-unit-20131107-2x3vv.html
Click to expand...

Thanks Enzeder. I'm not going to analyse this pic of a kettle It's a kettle with its lid open sitting on a kitchen bench. That's it! Does this prove that SG was making Lisa a cup of tea? NO. Does this prove that SG didn't throw Lisa over the balcony? NO. Give me strength! :banghead:
 
FigTree said:
My Bold...
How legal is the surveillance?
It seems that from the statement above, there was a time Lisa didn't know there was surveillance in the flat (and specifically on her) and she was being monitored beyond the boundaries of the room where cameras where. For her to think he was able to read her mind is his intentional deception as to how he gained the information he did.

and her e-footprint was being followed by SG - is this cyber stalking.

She may have known there were cameras installed in the apartment - after a time - that must have been an eye opener for her (because of the note found in her pocket).

If she was confused, she should have been - a normal reaction and response to purposeful manipulation by SG.

.
Click to expand...

This gets me too. The surveillance is dubious at best but most certainly illegal.

The premise that he did it to appear as a mind reader was a laughable excuse for stalking at first.

And then I realised that maybe that was the reality. He made her entirely dependant on him. Could have started the "mind reader" part with ******** like "our bond is so strong, I feel when you're upset, it hurts me too." With the overall undertone that if you ever dare think of leaving me, I will know.

I had a wishful thinking thought - that if RL is doing this for the publicity and spotlight - she might just break down on the stand and do a big dramatic spiel of "I love him but I cannot lie- he did it!"

I know, I know, wishful thinking. But if it was her 15 minutes of fame she was after, it's much better publicity to be the martyr partner who is sacrificing love for the sake of truth and justice.

Oh damn I'm too cynical in my old age!
 
icu nurse said:
This gets me too. The surveillance is dubious at best but most certainly illegal.

The premise that he did it to appear as a mind reader was a laughable excuse for stalking at first.

And then I realised that maybe that was the reality. He made her entirely dependant on him. Could have started the "mind reader" part with ******** like "our bond is so strong, I feel when you're upset, it hurts me too." With the overall undertone that if you ever dare think of leaving me, I will know.

I had a wishful thinking thought - that if RL is doing this for the publicity and spotlight - she might just break down on the stand and do a big dramatic spiel of "I love him but I cannot lie- he did it!"

I know, I know, wishful thinking. But if it was her 15 minutes of fame she was after, it's much better publicity to be the martyr partner who is sacrificing love for the sake of truth and justice.

Oh damn I'm too cynical in my old age!
Click to expand...

Great point ICU Nurse! That kind of psychological manipulation is absolutely how he could have reinforced his almighty omnipotence. :sick:
 
marlywings said:
With all we've been told to date, in your opinion, what would you say is the most compelling piece of evidence against the accused??

ETA: If anyone dares to say "the kettle"...welllllll Kimster sometimes lends me her zapper :D:
Click to expand...

RSBM

The final humiliation? After all that time and effort spent isolating Lisa, she still had people to turn to who supported her and helped her prepare to get away from his abuse.

“Sgt Wall recalled Gittany as saying. ''Her mum is going to be devastated . . . they were talking online yesterday and laughing.”

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...h-of-lisa-harnum/story-fni0cx12-1226750002426

Mr Tedeschi said Gittany was "apoplectic" and "berserk with rage" when he discovered two of Ms Harnum's acquaintances were helping her to leave him.
"I was angry, yes," Gittany replied.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/11/06/12/36/lisa-felt-in-imminent-danger-court-hears
 
Trial stopped as Simon Gittany ambushed by Today Tonight crew

November 8, 2013

Simon Gittany's murder trial was stopped after a Today Tonight crew ambushed him outside court in what has been described as “an interference with the administration of justice”.

The crew from the Channel Seven show allegedly approached Mr Gittany and his girlfriend on Friday morning with a microphone and asked him why is was so “controlling” and “jealous”.

Not long afterwards a trailer went to air stating “Explosive new evidence revealed in the Simon Gittany case, who is accused of throwing his fiancee off their 15th floor balcony.

The trial resumed about 10.30am but the court was waiting for those involved with the program to return.
Click to expand...
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/trial-sto...onight-crew-20131108-2x5ii.html#ixzz2k0aiwK9O
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 228 more.
Total: 2,166 (members: 229, guests: 1,937)

Online statistics

Members online
229
Guests online
1,937
Total visitors
2,166
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
599,363
Messages
18,095,071
Members
230,853
Latest member
Roxie1892
Back
Top