The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #5

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I don't know if I would make too much of the photos. I believe these may have been taken after the house was tossed for evidence.

I was by the house a few weeks back. I haven't been in but it appears to me that Suzie's bedroom runs north to south and not east to west as I previously thought. The bedroom was at one time a one car garage. According to the accounts the blinds in Suzie's bedroom were cracked which indicates she probably was awakened by the sound of a motor vehicle. Then what comes afterwards is entirely speculative.

My understanding is that a prime suspect has been identified. Also some very good detectives have looked at the case and the evidence down to the tiniest detail has been has been documented and cataloged. But as we all know the case won't end until sufficient evidence is collected to make a case that will stick and put the perpetrator on death row. This person, whoever he is, will get no gifts from the prosecutor if and when it goes to trial.

There are probably a couple of other individuals involved. They are also known. The individual believed to have done this is, according to my understanding (and I am by no means in receipt of confirming information) not been identified among the "usual suspects."

In all likelihood there is some reason to believe that this person was able in some manner, suggesting a previous contact with one or more of the victims able to get the door opened.

I for one will be happy beyond belief to see this case solved although it may not be solved in our lifetimes. A confession may be necessary.
 
So Mule do you think they have ruled all of the suspects Cox included out? Maybe they are looking at someone different that has never been named?
 
So Mule do you think they have ruled all of the suspects Cox included out? Maybe they are looking at someone different that has never been named?
I do believe someone not previously discussed is being looked at. I also believe none of the others would be ruled out as having nothing to do with what came after the women were kidnapped.

The description of this individual still fits Cox, however. And the "Vanished" trailer strongly suggests that it was Cox. However, the consensus (among people I have discussed this with) seems to be that he wasn't the actual abductor. So in summary, I wouldn't be ruling anyone out at this time. I would look most carefully at the GJ3.

I would also look at post #562 as representative of my current thought.
 
I have to say that those who were expecting some big catharsis by LE or anyone else on the 20th anniversary, the laying out of evidence to the public if you will, have to be greatly disappointed. LE is doing much the same as they did in the early days of this investigation when the FBI made their statement about minor players being uncomfortable about what they know. They have to continue to search for the few pieces of evidence that will take this case into a court of law. Information possibly known by the friends, wives or girlfriends of the perps could lead to that evidence. LE is basically stalled out from the prosecution of this case until if/when that information & evidence develops. Otherwise, at some point in time down the road the PA at that time will probably be forced to take a shot in court with what they have.
 
I have to say that those who were expecting some big catharsis by LE or anyone else on the 20th anniversary, the laying out of evidence to the public if you will, have to be greatly disappointed. LE is doing much the same as they did in the early days of this investigation when the FBI made their statement about minor players being uncomfortable about what they know. They have to continue to search for the few pieces of evidence that will take this case into a court of law. Information possibly known by the friends, wives or girlfriends of the perps could lead to that evidence. LE is basically stalled out from the prosecution of this case until if/when that information & evidence develops. Otherwise, at some point in time down the road the PA at that time will probably be forced to take a shot in court with what they have.

I agree with your thinking. I believed this was likely the situation but I also believe they have upped the ante and fleshed out something we didn't previously know. It appears from careful reading of what they released that it was a single male perpetrator. (who was able to effect entry)

Would you agree with that and would you also agree with the post by Trooogrit in post #562 as the probable scenario?
 
Stealing from graves - there are no depths to which some will not stoop!

If there are suspects who were also grave robbers, I wonder if graveyards were actually checked. It is horrible, but graves seem an obvious place to bury a body you wanted hidden. Either in an old grave above the coffin, or if there were new graves dug waiting to be filled, underneath the coffin. I think a lot of people like to stay within their comfortzone and if people were used to illegally digging up graves it might seem like an easy solution.

Did they ever use luminol in the house, it would be interesting if they could go back and check as I believe luminol shows up blood for years after the event (although I now it also shows up things like bleach too).
 
I agree with your thinking. I believed this was likely the situation but I also believe they have upped the ante and fleshed out something we didn't previously know. It appears from careful reading of what they released that it was a single male perpetrator. (who was able to effect entry)

Would you agree with that and would you also agree with the post by Trooogrit in post #562 as the probable scenario?

I don't believe that the recent statement by LE reinforces your Cox single perp theory. Their statement is a hypothetical statement meant to reinforce LE's belief that a friend, wife, girlfriend, landlord, or perhaps even a mother has suspicions concerning the activities and behavior of certain suspects (their loved one) during the days before, the night of, and the days immediately following the abduction. I strongly believe there are family members of those involved who know first hand the involvement of their loved one. LE is hoping that someone who had such a relationship at that time with one or more of LE's suspects (and has since went on with their life) will now come forth with information that could be used to develop further evidence in the case. At this late date I doubt a family member would come forward unless it would be someone like an ex-brother-in-law. Most likely it would have to be someone like an ex-wife or ex-girlfriend. You are reading way to much into their statement if you believe LE is indicating that this crime was carried out by a single perp.

How can you fully subscribe to Trooogrit's post #562 when he clearly argues against the single perp theory? I can agree to his points that this was a crime of sexual assault ( by a small group of career criminals led by a sexual deviant filled with hatred & rage) and was truly a random crime. I have said before that I believe if the window to Sherrill's bedroom had been closed that night with the blinds down the 3MW would be alive today. And I can agree that the perps were inside the house when the girls returned home, therefore I don't believe the girls were followed home from the parties or that the 3MW went to George's and were followed home from there. If Stacy did escape into the backyard at some point and was recaptured it clearly indicates that more than one perp was involved.

I don't believe that anyone let the perps in the front door that night or that there was a confrontation on the porch. I believe that LE has evidence concerning the point of entry into the house and it was not the front door. I believe the suggestion in the N-L by LE that a ruse to gain entry might have been used was really a ruse ( 1 of possibly 2 - 3) played on the public and designed to help eliminate false confessors that might come forward. I believe the porch globe was broken when exiting the house with the women.

And I believe a Parole Officer playing CYA and not initially being truthful about when he last saw one of his parolees allowed him to jump parole and make an escape instead of the parolee being interviewed in the early days of the investigation.
 
I don't believe that the recent statement by LE reinforces your Cox single perp theory. Their statement is a hypothetical statement meant to reinforce LE's belief that a friend, wife, girlfriend, landlord, or perhaps even a mother has suspicions concerning the activities and behavior of certain suspects (their loved one) during the days before, the night of, and the days immediately following the abduction. I strongly believe there are family members of those involved who know first hand the involvement of their loved one. LE is hoping that someone who had such a relationship at that time with one or more of LE's suspects (and has since went on with their life) will now come forth with information that could be used to develop further evidence in the case. At this late date I doubt a family member would come forward unless it would be someone like an ex-brother-in-law. Most likely it would have to be someone like an ex-wife or ex-girlfriend. You are reading way to much into their statement if you believe LE is indicating that this crime was carried out by a single perp.

How can you fully subscribe to Trooogrit's post #562 when he clearly argues against the single perp theory? I can agree to his points that this was a crime of sexual assault ( by a small group of career criminals led by a sexual deviant filled with hatred & rage) and was truly a random crime. I have said before that I believe if the window to Sherrill's bedroom had been closed that night with the blinds down the 3MW would be alive today. And I can agree that the perps were inside the house when the girls returned home, therefore I don't believe the girls were followed home from the parties or that the 3MW went to George's and were followed home from there. If Stacy did escape into the backyard at some point and was recaptured it clearly indicates that more than one perp was involved.

I don't believe that anyone let the perps in the front door that night or that there was a confrontation on the porch. I believe that LE has evidence concerning the point of entry into the house and it was not the front door. I believe the suggestion in the N-L by LE that a ruse to gain entry might have been used was really a ruse ( 1 of possibly 2 - 3) played on the public and designed to help eliminate false confessors that might come forward. I believe the porch globe was broken when exiting the house with the women.

And I believe a Parole Officer playing CYA and not initially being truthful about when he last saw one of his parolees allowed him to jump parole and make an escape instead of the parolee being interviewed in the early days of the investigation.

Actually I don't actually disagree with your take nor with Trooogrit's views. While I believe one person was able to get one of the doors opened, somehow, I can also believe that there were additional individuals in the van, if that is what was used. The "single perp" and additional individuals in the van are not mutually exclusive. So far as I can tell from reading the account, the perp was written as a singular person. Stated differently that is to say "kidnapper" as opposed to "kidnappers."

As to Cox, I have in fact, moved away from him as the single perp although I do believe he has knowledge of the crime and the information that was recently published does not to my mind, rule him out. He simply doesn't have an airtight alibi.

I fully agree that the globe was broken upon exit with the women.

I do believe that the perp (who gained entry) is known to the police. I do not believe the name of this person has surfaced in the media. I have posited a theory about what might have occurred which may explain how entry was gained. If the perp gained entry by forced entry of any kind it is not apparent to me. Therefore I am of the opinion this individual was more likely than not known to Sherrill and she opened what I believe is the front door. But that is just my opinion based on what I believe to be true.

As an aside, since it is known that Suzie was missing a key to the side entry it is not impossible that this particular key was in the possession of the perpetrator and he merely let himself in the side door. We are not told why she didn't have this key; only that she didn't have it.
 
Hurricane are the career criminals you bring up, the GJ3 members/Steve Garrison's crowd?
 
Hurricane are the career criminals you bring up, the GJ3 members/Steve Garrison's crowd?

Drake, I don't know anything about "Steve Garrison's crowd"; that's not definitive enough and I don't know who that is. You may think that takes in the GGMC and everybody who ever served time in Kansas. I will stipulate it is the GJ3 but will not name them.
 
Drake, I don't know anything about "Steve Garrison's crowd"; that's not definitive enough and I don't know who that is. You may think that takes in the GGMC and everybody who ever served time in Kansas. I will stipulate it is the GJ3 but will not name them.
Was there ever any proof besides CS ramblings on the net that Garrison was a member of the GGMC?

I've heard several names for GJ3. There's a M. R. and a R. W. and then of course our beloved Garrison. And also T. R. and R. E. , whose family was known for killing. But I am surprised the cops didn't find bodies when they were onto Garrison early in the investigation. But were these just guys who were jumping parole during that time? I mean did they really murder 3 women? Garrison never killed anyone before that we know of.

Garrison had it in him to break into homes and rape. If this was a sexual crime, did Garrison do it? He was known to carry gun. Those are facts. Was Garrison's escape from hotel room questioning of sign of guilt? Was his long prison term enough to comfort Ms. McCall and slow down moving on with a charge and building a case?

Maybe we can get some more details on how Garrison broke into that college girl's home/apartment...
 
I'm intrigued by Hurricane's post. As I understand it, he posits the view that the entry may have been made by means of forcible entry or perhaps through an unsecured window and not the front door. If the GJ3 had anything to do with this, it would be a very conceivable scenario. And we could better understand why these individuals were looked at by the grand jury as I believe it is correct to say all had lengthy rap sheets. I have no reason to believe that Hurricane had inside information as to how entry was made or he was just being provocative to elicit information. Perhaps he might tell us why he suggested these alternative and previously undiscussed possibilities for I have never heard or read this before.
 
That's going to be real tough. They (before and after the fact) know they will go the death house if they let anything slip. One of the individuals in the know needs to turn state's evidence and cut a deal. I'm relatively certain the police know who did it. One of them (with information) has no incentive as he will never get out of prison, and he's said not to be talking, last I heard. The others; I don't know. Maybe. They need a confession.


I think the police should publish a statement to that effect that they will cut a deal. A person could go to an attorney and have the attorney approach the authorities with a deal, and of course the attorney by law could not reveal the identity for prosecution purposes. A witness who was even involved might be granted a deal by the DA's office for testimony and location of the bodies. I think this could be publicized a little more to encourage someone to come forward. Of course potential witnesses might fear retaliation from the perp/s.
 
Let me say this, what I posted in #562, was a version of events that would fit for what we do know. #1 very little disturbance in the house. #2 Very little forensic evidence. #3 a random act that initiated with 1 person who is known to have a history of rape, only then did he get help from his friends who were close by. This was a different version than I had imagined before, and I would not say that it is what I think occurred only parts of it are what I believe occurred. I do not believe access was gained through the front door, I think probably Suzies room is the entry point, and this was before the girls arrived. The intention by ONE was rape, but when the girls came home it escalated and the friends were brought in to help manage the situation. Do I believe it was the GJ3 individuals? I am on the fence with that because the implication of these guys by Garrison himself, stuck him right in the middle of the case. That to me makes little sense. Could he have lied and blamed them to get out of jail on the weapons charge? That is possible. Could he have blamed them to get what he wanted and insure their silence, that also is possible. I believe that the police/FBI also thought that some individuals in this were reluctant participants and could help solve the case by cooperating. I also think that this case will never be solved without a confession.
 
Let me say this, what I posted in #562, was a version of events that would fit for what we do know. #1 very little disturbance in the house. #2 Very little forensic evidence. #3 a random act that initiated with 1 person who is known to have a history of rape, only then did he get help from his friends who were close by. This was a different version than I had imagined before, and I would not say that it is what I think occurred only parts of it are what I believe occurred. I do not believe access was gained through the front door, I think probably Suzies room is the entry point, and this was before the girls arrived. The intention by ONE was rape, but when the girls came home it escalated and the friends were brought in to help manage the situation. Do I believe it was the GJ3 individuals? I am on the fence with that because the implication of these guys by Garrison himself, stuck him right in the middle of the case. That to me makes little sense. Could he have lied and blamed them to get out of jail on the weapons charge? That is possible. Could he have blamed them to get what he wanted and insure their silence, that also is possible. I believe that the police/FBI also thought that some individuals in this were reluctant participants and could help solve the case by cooperating. I also think that this case will never be solved without a confession.

I appreciate your commenting on this case. I wonder though if it answers the obvious question of how the perp's entry and being in the house were not noted by the girls before they prepared for bed. I've bounced this off several people and the consensus is that there would have been some disturbance or noise that would have alerted them that not all was well. We do know that the girls had taken off their make-up and prepared for bed. This would seemingly have taken about 15 minutes or more.

That being said, if the perps were not in the house at the time the girls arrived, how would they have gotten in the house or have gotten some door opened? To my mind this would have required the elusive "ruse" or familiarity with one of the women.

The newspaper account states that the kidnapper was a sole male person. It leaves open the possibility that additional accomplices were in the suspected van.

But I do believe that your previous post was very close to the mark which is why I have referenced it. And I much inclined to believe the GJ3 are right in the middle of this crime. How Cox fits into this crime may only be through his knowledge.
 
I appreciate your commenting on this case. I wonder though if it answers the obvious question of how the perp's entry and being in the house were not noted by the girls before they prepared for bed. I've bounced this off several people and the consensus is that there would have been some disturbance or noise that would have alerted them that not all was well. We do know that the girls had taken off their make-up and prepared for bed. This would seemingly have taken about 15 minutes or more.

That being said, if the perps were not in the house at the time the girls arrived, how would they have gotten in the house or have gotten some door opened? To my mind this would have required the elusive "ruse" or familiarity with one of the women.

The newspaper account states that the kidnapper was a sole male person. It leaves open the possibility that additional accomplices were in the suspected van.

But I do believe that your previous post was very close to the mark which is why I have referenced it. And I much inclined to believe the GJ3 are right in the middle of this crime. How Cox fits into this crime may only be through his knowledge.
The previous post has holes, I just do not believe that the crime occurred for a "reason" there is very little evidence of a motive. So I think it was an impulsive sexual assault, and it spiralled very quickly into what it became. I only believe one was in the house when the girls came home and he was trapped in Sherrills room. His friends were close by though.
 
Was there ever any proof besides CS ramblings on the net that Garrison was a member of the GGMC?

I've heard several names for GJ3. There's a M. R. and a R. W. and then of course our beloved Garrison. And also T. R. and R. E. , whose family was known for killing. But I am surprised the cops didn't find bodies when they were onto Garrison early in the investigation. But were these just guys who were jumping parole during that time? I mean did they really murder 3 women? Garrison never killed anyone before that we know of.

Garrison had it in him to break into homes and rape. If this was a sexual crime, did Garrison do it? He was known to carry gun. Those are facts. Was Garrison's escape from hotel room questioning of sign of guilt? Was his long prison term enough to comfort Ms. McCall and slow down moving on with a charge and building a case?

Maybe we can get some more details on how Garrison broke into that college girl's home/apartment...

He crawled in thru an unlocked window of the coed's apartment.
 
I appreciate your commenting on this case. I wonder though if it answers the obvious question of how the perp's entry and being in the house were not noted by the girls before they prepared for bed. I've bounced this off several people and the consensus is that there would have been some disturbance or noise that would have alerted them that not all was well. We do know that the girls had taken off their make-up and prepared for bed. This would seemingly have taken about 15 minutes or more.

That being said, if the perps were not in the house at the time the girls arrived, how would they have gotten in the house or have gotten some door opened? To my mind this would have required the elusive m"ruse" or familiarity with one of the women.

The newspaper account states that the kidnapper was a sole male person. It leaves open the possibility that additional accomplices were in the suspected van.

But I do believe that your previous post was very close to the mark which is why I have referenced it. And I much inclined to believe the GJ3 are right in the middle of this crime. How Cox fits into this crime may only be through his knowledge.

Richard, when did you ever know me to be "provocative to elicit information" better known as "fishin"? Not my style. I post very little and when I do the information is factually based or clearly stated as my opinion or something I believe in. I'm not on here to continually posit daily or weekly theories. I really don't care how many people you bounce anything off of and if you want to keep asking who it was that could have gotten the front door open that night; be my guest.
 
Welcome to Websleuths, piasabird!

:fireworks:

:welcome5:
 
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