CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #16

zwiebel said:

"We would have no way to sync your location with the digital paywall"

Does anyone in California need a lodger? I swear you will not notice me at all.

Who owns the OC Register?

ETA: Lol, Spitz sounds Germanic. He'll find a way to let me pay.

Click to expand...

You can virtually lodge with our server here, lol. Then they will let you pay them!

believe09 said:

BBM-she has her phone call alibi, remember? Not much of an alibi, but she does claim she called and heard Bob and BIL and the whole "positive response thing..."

Click to expand...

Not much of an alibi, unless the call was placed via cellphone and LE got the records. Even then, there's bat phones and co-conspirators, lots of possibilities.

Maybe she really is a loving, devoted daughter who is doing everything she can do to try to bring Bob home.

Or maybe she called to establish if there was someone else in the house that day.

sreshowtime said:

was curious...
IS that an actual photo supplied by LE for the episode? Or a screenshot of a reenactment?
(sorry I haven't been able to watch it)
tia

Click to expand...

My impression was that it was a screenshot from the reenactment. It looked like there was a male figure (JeM) kneeling in front of the toilet, doing something handyman-ish.

Oriah said:

I really wonder about the timing of this call, and the next. And the arrival of the CL. Is there a good chance we can firm up a timeline of when Mr.Harrod was last inside the residence, based on this?

Click to expand...

Depends on how much credit you give PB. If you believe her, then it places Bob in his home at about 11:30 am.

LE says the last non-family member to speak to Bob was someone who called at 10 am. According to the Disappeared story, the cleaning lady arrived at about noon and no one was home. Around 12:15 JeM pulled up and was surprised to see her, since Monday was not her usual day to clean Bob's house.

I'm assuming that there is no way that anyone could have moved a body out of the house while the CL was sitting and waiting out front. From the aerial shots I've looked at, it looks like a typical California neighbourhood with each yard fenced off (very odd to my Iowa-bred eyes).

So there is either a 2 hour window (which is what I believe) or a 30 minute window.

Grainne Dhu said:

My impression was that it was a screenshot from the reenactment. It looked like there was a male figure (JeM) kneeling in front of the toilet, doing something handyman-ish.

Click to expand...

I misunderstood the question. Yes there are reenactments and there are police file photos. :blushing:

believe09 said:

I misunderstood the question. Yes there are reenactments and there are police file photos. :blushing:

Click to expand...

But, in your defence, we have the re-enactments of someone working away in the bathroom, and the housekeeper's statement of son-in-law staying upstairs for a lengthy amount of time, various posts by daughters about son-in-law repairing the bathroom, and carrying out repairs....

So the photo of someone carrying out repairs in Bob's bathroom is probably pretty close to the truth, wherever it came from. I'm very interested in what may have happened before those repairs, to be honest.

Grainne Dhu said:

Depends on how much credit you give PB. If you believe her, then it places Bob in his home at about 11:30 am.

LE says the last non-family member to speak to Bob was someone who called at 10 am. According to the Disappeared story, the cleaning lady arrived at about noon and no one was home. Around 12:15 JeM pulled up and was surprised to see her, since Monday was not her usual day to clean Bob's house.

I'm assuming that there is no way that anyone could have moved a body out of the house while the CL was sitting and waiting out front. From the aerial shots I've looked at, it looks like a typical California neighbourhood with each yard fenced off (very odd to my Iowa-bred eyes).

So there is either a 2 hour window (which is what I believe) or a 30 minute window.

Click to expand...

I'm actually partial to a 30 minute window. Interior access to the garage would fit with that. Where did SIL park when he arrived to find the CL waiting? Right or left side of driveway, or on street?

zwiebel said:

Mrs Harrod does look very different now, from her former glamourous self, although she is still a very elegant, slim, attractive lady. The loss of her glamour speaks of her love for Bob to me. She made herself look as absolutely beautiful as she could for the man she loved. Now he's gone, she is well dressed and neat, and that's all. She doesn't give a hoot about appearing on TV, or looking good for any other man out there who could comfort her and be a companion.

She is waiting for her Bob. If he were to walk through the door tomorrow (and how I wish he could), Mrs Harrod would look like a movie star, pretty quick, I bet. Mrs Harrod has proved her love and loyalty to Bob again and again.

Click to expand...

Respectfully snipped. The changes people are noticing in Fontelle strike me in a very specific way-I see a woman who will not let anything get in the way of her continued fight to bring her husband home. I think the changes in her point to an incredible devotion and strength of character. I think her more slender frame doesnt seem to be bowing under pressure anymore than it did when she "put a ring on it."

I think she is incredibly beautiful. I am not being critical of anyone pointing out these changes-I just wanted to post how I feel about them.

zwiebel said:

But, in your defence, we have the re-enactments of someone working away in the bathroom, and the housekeeper's statement of son-in-law staying upstairs for a lengthy amount of time, various posts by daughters about son-in-law repairing the bathroom, and carrying out repairs....

So the photo of someone carrying out repairs in Bob's bathroom is probably pretty close to the truth, wherever it came from. I'm very interested in what may have happened before those repairs, to be honest.

Click to expand...

BBM: myself as well.
And I am wondering where Mr. Harrod was when those repairs were being made.

Mrs Harrod noticing damage is no way going to be a leaking shower or toilet that was leaking a bit more when she returned. No-one calls that damage. It has got to be something broken, and then repaired or replaced. Ceramics, or a door, or a handle.

So that's toilet, cistern, cistern lid, bath and basin. Or floor tiles. (ceramics)

Or door, window glass, window frame or shower curtain/screen.

Repaired badly too, otherwise she would not have noticed. So that was either because the person doing the repairs couldn't get a match from the local hardware store, or they were in too much of a hurry to repair the damage properly.

kind of makes one wonder what was being loaded and unloaded, during the course of the morning

believe09 said:

I dont know, Oriah. Maybe the next interview will shed more light on this...PPD seems willing to cut some information loose at this point!!! Seeing as how this is a suspicious homicide and all.

I have said this before in jest, but now it is in all seriousness-the first one to the OC D.A. wins here. The very first one.

OC Cold Case which has a 5 star solve rate is working this case, which means it is also on the radar of the OC DA. IMO.

PPD has indicated that this is a suspicious homicide and that Bob may have known his attacker.

We have a possible crime scene inside of the house.

It is time to start digging deep and giving up the information that can solve this...I mean, the people who have it have to think about saving themselves or saving their loved ones.

I really hate this case.

Click to expand...

I agree with all the above.

I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on the internet. I'm most familiar with the laws and usual practices in Iowa; California laws probably share some similarity but they are not identical and I have no idea of what is routine there.

All that being said, I'd like to do a little speculative elaboration here. In Iowa, if a family member did not directly participate in a crime but was complicit in a coverup, they are in a dangerous position legally. There is a separate category of crimes written for just such scenarios called "accessory after the fact." It means someone who has knowledge that could affect the solving of a case who chooses to withhold such knowledge from LE.

There are degrees of complicit-ness. Someone who is called by a relative to help dispose of a body is subject to much more in the way of potential prison time and/or fines than someone who realises a month after the crime that their relative manipulated them into telling LE what seemed at the time to be a harmless white lie.

Whoever decides to 'fess up to the truth first will get the most benefit of the doubt by the prosecutor. The way laws are written usually gives a prosecutor some leeway in exactly which degree a crime is charged or even if a crime is charged as a misdemeanour vs a felony.

Finally, if someone uses a threat in order to silence a witness, if that witness does come forward first, they may not be charged with any crime. They may well be treated as another victim and the perp charged with witness tampering or extortion against that person.

Believe09 is absolutely right: whoever comes forward first with whatever they know will get the best treatment from the DA.

Moreover, anyone who knows something that could incriminate the perpetrator is living in danger. Whoever did this was either very cold and calculating or easily panicked and ready to use violence to solve what they saw as a problem. It is not safe to know something incriminating about such people. The only safety for potential witnesses is to go to LE with what they know so that the perpetrator has no reason to believe that more violence will solve this threat.

In other words, I believe that the perpetrator is as much a threat to their own family as they were to Bob.

Oriah said:

I'm actually partial to a 30 minute window. Interior access to the garage would fit with that. Where did SIL park when he arrived to find the CL waiting? Right or left side of driveway, or on street?

Click to expand...

According to Disappeared, IIRC, L if you are facing the house and R if you are facing the driveway...I think, anyway.

oh...and is it known if Mr. H's vehicle may have been 'borrowed' to run any errands during that time?

This news about damage raises a big question for me. We have at least two daughters claiming to visit Bob on a regular basis, who were in the house the day after (or following day) after he went missing. We have a grandson just around the block, close enough to keep his computer in Bob's house, who checked Bob's house the night Bob went missing. We have a son-in-law in the house the day Bob disappeared, who acted as repair man, so must have known it well.

Yet none of them noticed there was damage in the house after Bob went missing? None of them realized it could point police to 'signs of a struggle' that would have led to them 'ramping up' their investigation much, much earlier?

believe09 said:

According to Disappeared, IIRC, L if you are facing the house and R if you are facing the driveway...I think, anyway.

Click to expand...

Yes, that's what I recall as well, but of course it was a dramatization so just double checking. Isn't there another shot of Mr. Harrod's car in that same parking spot? Most drivers tend to enter and exit their vehicles closest to the entrance of the building they're seeking- in this case, that would be the front door of the Harrod residence, correct? To the left if facing the home. Unless entering through the garage, which would require the garage door and interior door being opened.

Was Mr. Harrod's vehicle parked on the right side of the drive, when CL and SIL arrived? And in which direction were vehicles parked? Pulled in directly? Backed in? It's not a long driveway- do we know the length? Reason why I wonder is because certain types of vehicles might fit flush against the garage with a vehicle parked in front, whereas others may overflow into the street.

Also, if SIL went around back to open the door, he would have traveled to the right of the drive on foot. Is that correct?

zwiebel said:

This news about damage raises a big question for me. We have at least two daughters claiming to visit Bob on a regular basis, who were in the house the day after (or following day) after he went missing. We have a grandson just around the block, close enough to keep his computer in Bob's house, who checked Bob's house the night Bob went missing. We have a son-in-law in the house the day Bob disappeared, who acted as repair man, so must have known it well.

Yet none of them noticed there was damage in the house after Bob went missing? None of them realized it could point police to 'signs of a struggle' that would have led to them 'ramping up' their investigation much, much earlier?

Click to expand...

To be fair, neither did PPD according to the well being check. So whatever it was was not obvious at a cursory glance but was very obvious to those who knew the home. And to PPD when they did a more thorough check of the home...after all there are photos that are specific to that bathroom.

JeM didnt return to the interior of the home. The girls werent close enough to their father to notice the damages and hasty/shoddy work....at least imo.

I think the theme of this case is that this family believed that no one would notice....

Oriah said:

That's the side of missing persons cases that just....kills me. These incredibly strong people just waiting, waiting, waiting, for their loved one to be brought home. Knowing the likely outcome. Feeling that unbearable pain of knowing- but not knowing- day in and day out.

What an amazingly strong woman.

Click to expand...

And what a lucky man Bob is for having her as the one family member fighting to bring him home.

I'm not surprised to read, once again, Bob's daughters didn't respond to the request for comments.

still have lots of catching up to do on this thread, wow, 4 new pages since I last was online!

I mean, let's face it...it must be very very hard to be in that bathroom. It takes iron determination to be there I would think.

Oriah said:

Yes, that's what I recall as well, but of course it was a dramatization so just double checking. Isn't there another shot of Mr. Harrod's car in that same parking spot? Most drivers tend to enter and exit their vehicles closest to the entrance of the building they're seeking- in this case, that would be the front door of the Harrod residence, correct? To the left if facing the home. Unless entering through the garage, which would require the garage door and interior door being opened.

Was Mr. Harrod's vehicle parked on the right side of the drive, when CL and SIL arrived? And in which direction were vehicles parked? Pulled in directly? Backed in? It's not a long driveway- do we know the length? Reason why I wonder is because certain types of vehicles might fit flush against the garage with a vehicle parked in front, whereas others may overflow into the street.

Also, if SIL went around back to open the door, he would have traveled to the right of the drive on foot. Is that correct?

Click to expand...

Oh no, Cubby has posted those detailed pics of the home again and again, and I never made a note of them.

But I have a video to hand of the car on the drive, and someone who is good with math so....