I'm not sure how you can be 'comfortable' with your viewpoint, quite frankly. Reeva went through hell that night, please do not put yourself up as an advocate for her or her family.
Discussion between the verdict and sentencing
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I'm not sure how you can be 'comfortable' with your viewpoint, quite frankly. Reeva went through hell that night, please do not put yourself up as an advocate for her or her family.
BBM... OMG bajas !! I think you've been reading my mental diary !! :floorlaugh:
Again, I struggle to make sense of the logic in either a legal or a moral sense of 'the basic overall evidence supports Pistorius' version' not being a credit to his version at all. What role does evidence then play for you? The state's case was circumstantial yes, but it also relied in every sense on subjectivity. Van der Merwe perceived one half of an argument, ear witnesses perceived a woman's tones and particular emotions, a pathologist estimated Reeva's last meal time, and so on. Corroboration says nothing about subjectivity if there are common underlying factors that can affect perception as there were here.
The state's case was never strong. It was circumstantial and weak and it required the state to step around the major issue of the first set of sounds and as you note, it's own time line. One of the following two things must be true, and the other false:
If the bat strikes followed the shots then Reeva cannot have been the person heard screaming.
If it was Reeva who was heard screaming the bat strikes cannot have followed the gun shots.
One of these is supported by subjective evidence, and the other is supported by objective evidence. A crack through wood is an objective observation of the way a particular force is expected to work on particular matter. It needs to take precedence here to the reasonable person, in my opinion.
Reeva herself said, in her own words, that she was 'scared of him' and 'how he might react to her' .. she had only just told her mother that they 'had been fighting, fighting a LOT'
Speaking of Janette (Janet) Henzen du Toit, her FACEBOOK account was viewable (at least the face page was) even though I am NOT a registered Facebook user. (Not sure if might be even more public for those who are.) There was a picture of her (appears to be one of those taken at a portrait studio found at the mall, with Henzen-du Toit all "dolled up"), so I know I have the right person. Items that were viewable, for non-Facebook people included her picture, along with "favorites" ....books, music, etc.
Of the TOP 4 "FAVORITE" books, she listed (3) books that IMO, were heavily weighted Christian/religious books:
"The Shack" by Wm.Paul
"The Power of Simple Prayer"
"Life Without Limbs" (authored by the gentleman born without any legs or arms. His success in life strongly linked to his relationship/influences wi God)
Not sure if Judges, Assessors influenced by their personal religious beliefs, but I imagine all influences and experiences in our lives certainly play a role in each of us and the decisions we make.
I just found it interesting that 3 of the 4 books she posted as her "favorites" were heavily influenced by the role religion plays in our lives and that one of those books was also written by a young man born with a severe and extraordinary physical handicap (no arms nor legs) and how he overcame this horrific challenge.
I just found it interesting. Peaked my interest. I am certainly not suggesting Judges/Assessors can't be religious, or atheist, or whatever ???. Anyone in a powerful, influential position such as theirs would have to be careful/aware of using the law & only the law to do their job. But after the ruling & reasoning Masipa gave for basing her verdict on, I am totally confused and disappointed in "how the judicial system works". (Have had this feeling after many verdicts here in the States as well. i.e....OJ, Casey Anthony, etc, but I always blamed the jury system. Laypersons with their many biases & emotions influencing their verdicts. Somehow I thought a Judge hearing the evidence & determining the verdict would be different.)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...07374744195.276888.658779194&type=1&source=11
Everybody is free to advocate for anything that moves them. I think that compounding this tragedy with an evil intent that has been proved not to exist is a huge disservice to Reeva and those that love her.
If you don't yourself see the wild leap it takes to get from a tiny minority of the text messages and a young couple arguing a lot to the extreme crime of femicide, there is likely nothing I or anybody can say that will impact your thinking.
cottonweaver
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uke:[/B]Sorry, that's another example of something I just can't take at face value.
Maybe it's just misinterpretation - the way you say it or the way I hear it?!
Thanks for this, 4MrsB ... that's quite astonishing/concerning!
.. I wouldn't mind betting that book influenced her with regard to feeling compassion towards OP. Poor Reeva, will no-one listen to her? It's all about OP and his disabilities and his supposed fear all the time .. all of which is total BS and was never a problem for him until he needed an excuse after murdering his girlfriend in a fit of pique.
Sorry, that's another example of something I just can't take at face value.
Maybe it's just misinterpretation - the way you say it or the way I hear it?!
I don't understand your issue. I certainly feel the loss of her life as a terrible, needless tragedy. I think that's probably a near universal feeling of followers of this case. It's not necessary that that feeling be accompanied by outrage and a belief that she was murdered in cold blood.
mister happy
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Love her glamor shot! If she starts showing off various cosmetic surgeries that she had after the trial, my suspicions of a payoff might become stronger.. lol.
cottonweaver
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I agree with bib-
BUT if a poster thinks "she was murdered" in a DV scenario, think that outrage might be a very natural consequence.
Yes, I understand and agree. But if she wasn't murdered in a DV scenario I think that serves her memory and her story very poorly.
cottonweaver
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Possibly.....initially, I think, her parents wanted it to be an accident and they certainly wanted the truth.
BUT seriously, her memory wouldn't be served well by the fact that she was killed by someone she barely knew, so recklessly, so pointlessly.
Remember the only people who have used the word "tragedy" so frequently is the Pistorius family etc. And there's a good reason for that-that's where they need to position this - it serves to dress it up and remove some of the horrible brutality.....
We'll probably go round in circles so I wont pursue beyond this. It is my view that with Pistorius as sole witness to the events, if he is guilty of murder, it is entirely possible, and indeed necessary to tailor a story that fits ear witness accounts, especially with regard to sequence. As such, it does not credit his version. You may not agree with me but it is not an outlandish position to hold, and not difficult to understand. There is evidence that supports his version, but as I have tried to elucidate above, not because it is true.
There was no objective evidence presented that measured the audibility of bat strikes at distance, particularly that of the witnesses whom the defence relied on.
You won't convince me, or I you so let's not waste each other's time. I find Pistorius' version illogical in the extreme and both common sense and circumstantial evidence suggests it was plain old domestic violence.
I say sadly because I've always thought that OP murdered her in a blind rage. I, however, believe that the Judge's verdict is correct. Imo there very simply was not enough "legal" evidence to support a verdict of murder.
And, yes, I had hoped that Reeva's parents would find at least a small measure of comfort that their beloved daughter had not died the beyond horrifying death that so many of us had pictured her suffering.
Imho the talking heads and the outrageous verbal attacks by some of the masses against the Judge, has overridden any small measure of comfort that the Steenkamps might have otherwise derived from the verdict.
It is a tragedy though, and I understand why the Pistorius family gravitates to the word. What word would you choose to capture the needless loss of a woman with so much ahead of her? It is to me utterly and completely tragic. I doesn't in my mind provide any softening of the shocking and misplaced gun violence. The Pistorius family though has the additional context of knowing and loving their family member, which is a completely valid one. I do have empathy for that as well. It's tragic for them in a different way.
Reeva's is a terrible story with a terrible, fateful unfair ending in that tiny room. The truth alone is enough suffering for her. I can't understand the motivation to step so hard around the evidence and make it even more terrible.
Masipa's judgement makes it clear that the bat strikes being second was a fact that was effectively conceded in the trial. The conclusion didn't arise from the audibility testimony, which as far as I can tell was included only to bolster what the state couldn't really argue against anyway. Again, you're going with your gut and your own sense of common sense over objective facts. I'm sure you can imagine some context where you would argue against this as a good approach.
I felt that way about the Casey Anthony verdict. She so clearly did something terrible, but I thought the state just didn't meet it's obligation. It's difficult to accept situations like that, but in another way it's a testament to the great fairness our systems of justice hold themselves to. We're blessed to live in places that value that.
soozieqtips
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BIB - Well, Masipa was happy to do exactly that, which is no doubt why Reeva's parents don't feel justice was served.
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