Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

ILikeToBendPages said:

Burke had Pasty's attention until JonBenet started school. Then Pasty turned her full attention on JonBenet. Burke also had bed wetting issues and he stopped when she did.

Pasty, and her sister Pam had both been in the Ms America beauty pageants, and both of them losing the crown. JonBenet was going to be their next Ms. America. Pasty's mother, Nedra Paugh, said you had to start them young for the pageants and when asked what if JonBenet didn't want to be in the pageants Nedra said" we'll say JonBenet you will do it". Nedra also made a remark about the size of Burkes penis.

JonBenet pageant costumes grew more risque. Her mother once dressed her like Las Vegas showgirl. In that photo you can see the bruises on her arms. Another time Pasty had her in bright red lipstick and dressed like Marylin Monroe. Steve Thomas thought that the injuries to JonBenet vagina were caused by a rough clean up by Pasty. The housekeeper said that JonBenet would scream and cry when Pasty took her to the bathroom.

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Could I ask you folks to link your info to a source? I haven't read any such quotes from Patsy's mother or the housekeeper.

Thanks in advance.

PrincessSezMe said:

Could I ask you folks to link your info to a source? I haven't read any such quotes from Patsy's mother or the housekeeper.

Thanks in advance.

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Linda Hoffman-Pugh, the housekeeper, went before the grand jury for eight hours and then af wrote a book about her job at the Ramsey's home. This in the first chapter of her book. She thinks Pasty killed JonBenet.


DEATH OF AN INNOCENT
Linda Hoffmann-Pugh
Chapter 1

Who killed JonBenet Ramsey? How did she die? Those are the questions most Americans want answered. And I can answer them. In fact, I am one of only three people who knows the answer to the terrible question: "Who killed JonBenet Ramsey?" And who are the other two people who know the answer? John and Patsy Ramsey, the parents of JonBenet Ramsey And there is a reason why we know who killed JonBenet. Unlike other authors who have written books about the case before us, we were actually part of the Ramsey household. Right up until the day JonBenet died.

But I also know who killed JonBenet Ramsey because I saw John and Patsy Ramsey in their private, unguarded moments. And because I took care of JonBenet as if she were my own child. But now, because the police have failed miserably in solving the mystery of JonBenet's death, I feel that it is finally time for me to come forward and tell my story. It is a frightening story with a terrible secret.

The secret is this: I have no mouth and I must scream. That's right. I have no mouth and I must scream! I have no mouth and yet I must scream the name of JonBenet's killer at the top of my lungs to the rest of the world. Try to imagine what it is like to know who killed JonBenet Ramsey, and yet have no one to listen to you, or help you do anything about it. That is part of the terrible secret. No one will help me! Not the police. Not the district attorney. Not even a federal judge. And yet I know who killed JonBenet Ramsey, just as surely as if I had been there in that dark, awful wine cellar with her and witnessed her murder. And I will tell you what happened on that dreadful Christmas night. If you will listen. But before I can do that, I must briefly tell you about the only two other people who know who murdered JonBenet. They are John and Patsy Ramsey.

While working for the Ramsey family as a housekeeper, I was able to see the interaction between John and Patsy. In the fourteen months I was there, they never once showed the slightest affection for one another. I never once saw them embrace. I never once saw them hold hands, I never once saw them a kiss, or hug, or use words or terms of endearment, or speak to one another with any warmth or tenderness. Not once. Not ever! In fact, I don't think I've ever been around a married couple who looked so uncomfortable together. Or a couple who were as cold to one another, as these two.

There were times when I would not have been surprised to come to work and find that John and Patsy Ramsey had filed for divorce. On one occasion, while I was working around the Ramsey house, a conversation Patsy Ramsey had with me only confirmed my suspicions that there was "trouble in paradise" in the Ramsey marriage. Patsy confided to me that she did not enjoy having sexual relations (especially oral sex) with John. After beating around the bush, Patsy finally asked me for help. Did I have any suggestions? She wanted to enjoy sex with John, but she just couldn't bring herself to do it. Especially not oral sex. Was there anything Patsy could do to keep her from thinking about his penis in her mouth and gagging on it? Well, was there? Patsy appeared desperate. Was there anything she could do about the salty sour taste of John's penis, and the pubic hair that would stick in her teeth? I was astonished. As a mother of six children, I had never run into that problem. Quite the contrary.

Before answering Patsy, I took a deep breath, stunned by the completely unexpected nature of Patsy's confession, thought for a minute, and then offered her the only advice a grandmother of ten children could give. Patsy, I told her, keep thinking about how much you love John and how this is just another way of showing him your love. Make love to his penis as if you were making love to the man. What else could I say. Either you love the guy or you don't. But Patsy's unhappiness and fear of John's penis did not end there. Sometime after Patsy's confession, I came upon her sobbing in the kitchen. When I asked her what was wrong, she explained that she had just spent the night crying her eyes out because John had yelled at her the day before about her being a lousy homemaker and cook. Clearly, there was more to John's anger than an uncooked meal or an unmade bed.

I suspected that the real reason behind John's outburst probably had more to do with his unsucked penis than his uncooked pot roast. Remarkably, Patsy seemed genuinely upset by his criticism and she was more emotional than I think I have ever seen her. Later, when appearing before the Boulder grand jury investigating the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, I spoke at length about the trouble I thought the Ramsey marriage was experiencing. I told the grand jury that in my opinion, based on my personal observations while working for the them, I could honestly say that the Ramseys did not appear to be a happily married couple. On the contrary, they seemed held together, like lots of other unhappy marriages, by their children. Without their son Burke, and their daughter JonBenet, it is my belief that John and Patsy would have divorced many years ago.

I also told the grand jury that while Patsy could be kind and even thoughtful, she was one of the strangest people I have ever met. By way of example, I told the grand jury that while cleaning out and organizing her vast number of purses - one of my tasks every Friday - Patsy took me aside and explained that she had gone to her local church, had members of her congregation pray over her, and the next day found that doctors had declared her miraculously "cured" of stage-four ovarian cancer.

But that wasn't all. Patsy also had visions. She confided in me that John's deceased daughter from his first marriage appeared before her to tell her that an angel was coming to cure her of cancer. Patsy believed her dead step-daughter's message was true and that the angel sent her cancer into remission, along with the help of the parishioner's of her church who had prayed over her.

But that still wasn't all. One of the ways in which Patsy Ramsey would communicate with me was through handwritten notes, which she would leave for me with instructions for various duties around the house that needed my attention. In the fourteen month period that I worked for the Ramseys, I was left several dozen handwritten notes by Patsy Ramsey. I am quite familiar with her handwriting, and I believe I can recognize it with very little difficulty. I told the grand jury that since leaving the employ of the Ramseys, I had had occasion to see a copy of the ransom note found at the scene of JonBenet Ramsey's murder. It was heartbreaking for me to admit that the handwriting in the ransom note looked very much like the handwriting Patsy Ramsey used in writing her notes to me.

By way of example, Patsy made her letter "a"s very distinctively, and she would use accents over words like JonBenet and attach, and often used initialing of words in combination, to name just a few of her many unique handwriting characteristics. Because I once felt very close to Patsy Ramsey, and regarded her with almost as much affection as a member of my immediate family, it has been hard for me to admit that I am now certain that the handwriting in the ransom note looks to me as if it was made by one and the same person. Patsy Ramsey.

That is why I am convinced Patsy killed and then covered up the death of her daughter. She alone is responsible. John may have helped her to hide her crime because he had no choice, especially since she could have pointed the finger of guilt at him if he had resisted. Perhaps I am being too cryptic. So let me tell you how I believe JonBenet was murdered. If I were speaking to Patsy Ramsey right now, this is what I would say to her: You were spent and exhausted, weren't you? The holidays do that to people. At the party on December twenty-third you appeared a little out of sorts, perhaps because there were twenty people in the house with another twenty on the way. It was five in the afternoon, and I was on my way out the door, leaving you without help. So it's okay if you dipped deeply into the Beringer Chardonnay, your favorite wine that you kept in the walk-in refrigerator, just off the kitchen.

Holidays can be depressing. I don't blame you for being down. Your big four-oh birthday was less than a week away, you had dealt with ovarian cancer for years, and your beauty queen looks were fading. Miss West Virginia of 1977 had become a middle-aged matron. You loved JonBenet, but she was a handful, wetting the bed night after night. She was driving you crazy. Christmas Day wasn't quiet or peaceful, either. There was pressure, lots of pressure and I wasn't there to smooth out the rough edges for you. Sure, it was picture perfect, snow on the ground, and your home was a decorator's dream. I remember helping to decorate the artifical Christmas trees, one for nearly every room in the house. Giant candy canes bordered both sides of the walk. But there were homes to visit, open houses that had to be dropped in and dropped out of, and you were expected to gather up Burke and JonBenet and have them ready to fly out at daybreak to Michigan where there was going to be a second Christmas at your lakefront vacation house. John would hire the pilot, but you were the one who had to pack and organize and get the kids dressed.

So you were weary that night, who wouldn't be? John was no help. He did what he always did - swallowed a couple of melatonin capsules and fell into a deep sleep. He wouldn't have heard a cannon go off it was next to the bed. You were still wearing the red sweater and black velvet trousers when you put JonBenet to bed Christmas night. Surprisingly - for someone who has a hundred dresses and prides herself with never wearing the same outfit twice - you were wearing that same costume when the police arrived the next day.

JonBenet wet the bed again that night, didn't she? She woke up and told you about it before you were even undressed and you simply "lost it." You took her into the bathroom. It was the same destination you always took JonBenet when it was time to punish her for bedwetting. You forget that I saw you take here there so many times before, shutting the door tightly behind you, so her screams could not be heard. Except this time there was "an accident," wasn't there? You picked up the long, black flashlight you had brought with you, and you swung it. You swung it first at her crotch and then next at her head. Maybe you meant to scare her and maybe you didn't mean to kill her, but you did.

At first you thought you had knocked her out, but then she wasn't breathing, and you felt for a pulse, but there was none. What to do? What to do? Well, someone else must have done this, since it certainly couldn't have been you. Right? After all, you were always a model parent. Right? At least you hoped people thought so. All of those Tom Clancy novels were suddenly flashing through your mind as JonBenet's body lay before you. What would a clever mystery writer have his antagonist do? Think! They sure wouldn't have the villain lie down and take the rap for an accident. A bash in the head, after all, was too suspicious. A parent could do that. But what if JonBenet was slowly strangled, exotically, with, of all things, a garrote? So you broke off one of your paint brushes, took the white nylon cord, and twisted it around her neck. She might have still been revived, but you didn't know it. You just pulled the cord tight around her neck until it was red. I remember just such a cord wrapped in just such a way around a box in the basement next to where her body was found. I remember a lot Patsy.

You kept trying to make it an exotic crime scene, didn't you? You even taped your daughter's wrists and her mouth shut, cutting the tape with a small Swiss army knife that would later be found beside her body the next day. I remember that knife. Burke had walked around the house whittling with it a month before, and I told you I put it up at the top of the linen closet near JonBenet's bedroom when I confiscated it from him. Only you knew and John knew the exact location of that hideaway in the linen closet. After you finished taping JonBenet's mouth, you carried her downstairs and hid her body in the basement inside a small hidden room - the "wine room" you called it, even though there was never any wine stored there. You then wrapped her in a favorite white blanket of hers, which you took from the dryer, except her Barbie nightgown was stuck to it because you never did have the sense to throw in a static cling strip with the wash. So you laid the nightie next to her.

You had stored the plastic Christmas trees there, in that "wine cellar." Strange, isn't it? I had worked for you for nearly a year and I didn't even know that room existed until you had me get those trees out of there. An intruder wouldn't have found that place. Not in a million years. Only you, or John, would know it location. Your house was a 22-room rabbit warren and maze that even my husband once got lost in when he was doing some work for you. What to do next? Well, a ransom note might be nice. It would explain why JonBenet was suddenly missing. But you forgot one thing. The handwriting and language of the note were all yours. I can hear your "voice" in the note. The word "hence," for example, was in your Christmas cards and letters and a word you liked to use in conversation. The phrase "use that good Southern common sense" is what you kidded John about, since he was anything but Southern, having been born and raised in Michigan; the phrase "fat cat" is what your mother, Nedra, used to call you after you and John became rich. The ransom demand asked that the money be put in an attach, with a proper accent mark over the last e in attach. I remember how careful you always were to put the proper accent mark over the e in the second syllable of JonBenet's name. The ransom note even ended with the initials SBTC. Do you remember how fond you were of using initials as abbreviations for all sorts of expressions?

Preparing the crime scene and writing the ransom note must have been time consuming and exhausting. You were up all night before you "found" the ransom note just before six a.m in the morning. You didn't even have time to change your clothes from the day before. You began screaming as soon as John had awakened and he didn't even know what had happened when you called the police. John didn't know what had happened to JonBenet when he found the body hidden in the basement. When did you tell him?

There was trouble in the Ramsey's perfect home and marriage. John had had several affairs during his first marriage to Lucinda and some say there might of been in his one with Pasty.

ILikeToBendPages - thank you! I have never read that before.

PrincessSezMe said:

ILikeToBendPages - thank you! I have never read that before.

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John Ramsey was calm and even joked when they were explaining how the phone tap would work.

He went missing for about an hour and a half around ten and he was next seen by Linda Ardnt, sitting at the dining room table, his shoulders bent, his head in his hands. I think he'd finally had time to read the ransom note and knew Pasty did something to her and he then went looking to where Pasty had hid her. Linda Arndt was concerned about him and sent John and Fleet White , John's best friend, to look the house over again, looking for anything missing or out of place. John made a beeline to the basement. He found her in the wine cellar, a place Fleet White had looked in earlier that morning during the first search. I think John found her body when he went missing that morning.


At the first of Pasty's 911 call and before the dispatcher speaks, Pasty can be heard speaking. Some say it sounds like a calm"hon we need them" then panic in her voice when she heard the dispatcher, during that call John can be heard saying "we're not talking to you". Pasty didn't hang the phone up like the she thought and at the end some think she's saying "help me Jesus, help me Jesus, help me Jesus, there going to arrest me".


Pasty called several friends over after she called 911. They got there at the same time as the police. She made that call in spite of being told that JonBenet would be beheaded if calls were made or police dispatched. They went around cleaning up after the police dusted for prints.

ILikeToBendPages said:

And a hell of a lot of counseling and intervention. Aspergers is in the Autism spectrum. They are set in their ways. They do not like people touching their things , they have a short fuse and lack empathy for others. Some would call them cold hearted at times. John and Pasty both said Burke was in counseling after JonBenet's death.

One doctor he saw asked about JonBenet and if he knew what had happened to her. He said she'd been taken down to the basement and hit in the head and made a motion of hitting downward two times. it gave he chills.

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She had been taken to the basement.

By whom? There is no way Burke could get her down there, voluntarily or otherwise.

This emphasises to me that Burke is a witness. He was describing what he saw, not what he did.

:cow:

PrincessSezMe said:

ILikeToBendPages - thank you! I have never read that before.

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PrincessSezMe, thank you as well! I did read this before. The only one thing I remembered since reading this 'eyewitness' account was another 'proof' of what I thought for long time: John and Patsy doesn't have loving relationship at the time of JBR death! And I do believe their marriage life had problems for long time (possibly, due to Patsy sickness or/and John's cold, self-absorbed parsonality). Also, I do believe John wasn't faithful in marriage with Patsy. He's not capable to be faithfull in any relationship: not with woman, not with friends...jmo

I did some searching and found this article written for Vanity Fair. It contains the reference to Nedra's inappropriate comments about Burke's penis. That info came from Jane Stobie, a manager who worked at Access Graphics. http://bardachreports.com/articles/v_19971000.html.

SapphireSteel said:

She had been taken to the basement.

By whom? There is no way Burke could get her down there, voluntarily or otherwise.

This emphasises to me that Burke is a witness. He was describing what he saw, not what he did.

:cow:

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Burke seemed to be pretty cold and uncaring about the death of his sister. The morning she was found he cared little about what was happening, and only seemed to care about his Nintendo. Although I don't necessarily think this points to his guilt, it seems to indicate that there may have been some jealousy on his part towards JonBenet. I can speculate that he probably lived very much in her shadow.

Another thing to consider is the drag marks found on JonBenet's body. Both parents would be perfectly capable of carrying her down to the basement. Again, I'm not saying I believe Burke did it, but these are things that make you go hmmm........

JMO

PrincessSezMe said:

Burke seemed to be pretty cold and uncaring about the death of his sister. The morning she was found he cared little about what was happening, and only seemed to care about his Nintendo. Although I don't necessarily think this points to his guilt, it seems to indicate that there may have been some jealousy on his part towards JonBenet. I can speculate that he probably lived very much in her shadow.

Another thing to consider is the drag marks found on JonBenet's body. Both parents would be perfectly capable of carrying her down to the basement. Again, I'm not saying I believe Burke did it, but these are things that make you go hmmm........

JMO

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PrincessSezMe, not agree on above 'drag marks found' statement...I don't think AR has any references to abrasions which could be interpreted as the 'drag marks'....JMO

OpenMind4U said:

PrincessSezMe, not agree on above 'drag marks found' statement...I don't think AR has any references to abrasions which could be interpreted as the 'drag marks'....JMO

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I also agree that nowhere have I seen "drag marks" described on her body. There WERE some scrapes or scratches on the back of her legs that were noted in the autopsy, and it could be thought that they were the result of her being dragged or pulled. One thing though- there would be MUCH more damage if she had been dragged down the stairs. I do not believe that happened in any scenario. It is possible that she may have been carried down the stairs- some believe the bots of green plastic in her hair came from the fake garland that was wound the stairs.
However- there is something about that which bothers me. If that happened, it had to have happened before the strangulation and while she was still alive, because there is evidence that points to the garrote being made right on her neck, outside the winecellar, as she lay on her stomach on the carpet. Wood shards matching the paintbrush were found there, as well as urine stains on the carpet, and most investigators feel that is where she actually was strangled.
So in this theory, the sexual assault and head bash happened upstairs, and an unconscious JB was carried downstairs.
There would have also been fake green needles on the basement floors, including the wine cellar. LHP said artificial Christmas trees were kept in there, and on the wall right next to the wine cellar door can be seen an artificial Christmas decoration made of fake greens. This was right near the spot JB was strangled. So the stairs weren't the only source for the green bots in her hair.

DeeDee249 said:

I also agree that nowhere have I seen "drag marks" described on her body. There WERE some scrapes or scratches on the back of her legs that were noted in the autopsy, and it could be thought that they were the result of her being dragged or pulled. One thing though- there would be MUCH more damage if she had been dragged down the stairs. I do not believe that happened in any scenario. It is possible that she may have been carried down the stairs- some believe the bots of green plastic in her hair came from the fake garland that was wound the stairs.
However- there is something about that which bothers me. If that happened, it had to have happened before the strangulation and while she was still alive, because there is evidence that points to the garrote being made right on her neck, outside the winecellar, as she lay on her stomach on the carpet. Wood shards matching the paintbrush were found there, as well as urine stains on the carpet, and most investigators feel that is where she actually was strangled.
So in this theory, the sexual assault and head bash happened upstairs, and an unconscious JB was carried downstairs.
There would have also been fake green needles on the basement floors, including the wine cellar. LHP said artificial Christmas trees were kept in there, and on the wall right next to the wine cellar door can be seen an artificial Christmas decoration made of fake greens. This was right near the spot JB was strangled. So the stairs weren't the only source for the green bots in her hair.

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I'm sure there is a lot of misinformation out there about this case. This is one example from a website where they talk about the drag marks.

"The autopsy was conducted on 27 November 1996 by the Office of the Boulder County Coroner. JonBenet’s underwear was stained with urine and she had ligature marks on her neck from the garrote, which was a piece of white cord tightened by winding a broken paintbrush. She had also suffered trauma to the head resulting in a fractured skull and a brain haemorrhage. It is unknown which came first, the strangulation or the blow to the head. There was no evidence of rape or sexual abuse, however, there were abrasions around her vaginal area consistent with being scraped or wiped roughly. There were also abrasions on her body consistent with being dragged on the floor. "


http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/crime-files/jonbenet-ramsey/investigation.html

PrincessSezMe said:

I did some searching and found this article written for Vanity Fair. It contains the reference to Nedra's inappropriate comments about Burke's penis. That info came from Jane Stobie, a manager who worked at Access Graphics. http://bardachreports.com/articles/v_19971000.html.

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Judith Phillips was the lady that Nedra made the remark about JonBenet doing as she's told. She also told her that as long John Ramsey made the money they'd spend it.

ILikeToBendPages said:

Pasty made three after hours calls to Jonbenet's pedi on the evening of Tuesday, December seventeenth.

JonBenet and Pasty had a fight Monday the 23rd over what JonBenet wanted to wear for the gingerbread house party and what Pasty wanted her to wear. JonBenet gave in and wore the blue velvet dress. And then you have a little girl that doesn't feel pretty.

There was another fight on Christmas day over JonBenet wearing a red turtleneck and be dressed like Pasty. She wanted to wear the outfit she had chose at the Gap. It was the one she was found in ..... but Pasty mentions her wearing the red turtleneck to bed that night. It is later found wadded up on JonBenet's bathroom counter. There were pull ups hanging out a drawer. JonBenet had been wearing them since summer, but Pasty had stop using them. It seems that JonBent didn't mind if they were wet or not. She also would call out for people to come wipe her in the bathroom.

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ST stated that she was crying and when asked she said she didn't feel pretty. This was the same day the 911 hang up call was made. Susan Stine answered the door and said it was a mistake, there was no problem at the house. I have understood that possibly JB made that call herself and am of the opinion that she had had enough. Maybe here again I am wrong.

The red turtleneck sweater is a very telling sign IMOO. When LE questioned PR about it she broke down. I know what has been discussed here and the opinion is that the rust colored trianguliar bruise on JB neck was caused from strangulation of the rope. It looks to me like she was strangeled previously; i.e. grabbed by the sweater (fist full) twisted and chocked. I probably am wrong here as well. Just what it looks like to me. I believe the strangulation was a cover up of something that took place earlier that evening.

And yes the pull up diapers were hanging out of the cabinets in the laundry room outside JB room. Wonder why since PR told LHP that she stopped putting them on JB? THe cabinet is where LHP hide BR knife from him; again this is my understanding.

On the 17th this is the day JB won the Colorado's Little Miss Christmas and recieved the Santa Bear. The night before was the Access Graphics Billion Dollar Sales Party. Possibly JB and BR were watched by a babysitter that evening.

Almost forgot. I read in one of the books I think PMPT that JB had yelled for somebody to wipe her at the White's Christmas party and that JR had done that. If that was the case that would explain his fiber's. It could have been FW I do not recall.

OpenMind4U said:

PrincessSezMe, thank you as well! I did read this before. The only one thing I remembered since reading this 'eyewitness' account was another 'proof' of what I thought for long time: John and Patsy doesn't have loving relationship at the time of JBR death! And I do believe their marriage life had problems for long time (possibly, due to Patsy sickness or/and John's cold, self-absorbed parsonality). Also, I do believe John wasn't faithful in marriage with Patsy. He's not capable to be faithfull in any relationship: not with woman, not with friends...jmo

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I often wonder about the conversations he and Beth Holloway had when they were dating. Two people that had their daughters murdered. Do you think Beth figured out who killed Jonbenet?

I will always believe Patsy accidentally killed JonBenet. I don't know why she did it, but that ransom note sealed it for me. I also think John either knew about it or came to that conclusion shortly after, then protected her for the rest of her life.

That house was too big with too many levels for a stranger to come in and actually be able to find that hidden room in the basement. Whoever killed her knew the layout of that house really well.

Flatlander said:

ST stated that she was crying and when asked she said she didn't feel pretty. This was the same day the 911 hang up call was made. Susan Stine answered the door and said it was a mistake, there was no problem at the house. I have understood that possibly JB made that call herself and am of the opinion that she had had enough. Maybe here again I am wrong.

The red turtleneck sweater is a very telling sign IMOO. When LE questioned PR about it she broke down. I know what has been discussed here and the opinion is that the rust colored trianguliar bruise on JB neck was caused from strangulation of the rope. It looks to me like she was strangeled previously; i.e. grabbed by the sweater (fist full) twisted and chocked. I probably am wrong here as well. Just what it looks like to me. I believe the strangulation was a cover up of something that took place earlier that evening.

And yes the pull up diapers were hanging out of the cabinets in the laundry room outside JB room. Wonder why since PR told LHP that she stopped putting them on JB? THe cabinet is where LHP hide BR knife from him; again this is my understanding.

On the 17th this is the day JB won the Colorado's Little Miss Christmas and recieved the Santa Bear. The night before was the Access Graphics Billion Dollar Sales Party. Possibly JB and BR were watched by a babysitter that evening.

Almost forgot. I read in one of the books I think PMPT that JB had yelled for somebody to wipe her at the White's Christmas party and that JR had done that. If that was the case that would explain his fiber's. It could have been FW I do not recall.

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Flatlander,
Nope, because we do not even know if JonBenet visited the bathroom.


.

PrincessSezMe said:

I did some searching and found this article written for Vanity Fair. It contains the reference to Nedra's inappropriate comments about Burke's penis. That info came from Jane Stobie, a manager who worked at Access Graphics. http://bardachreports.com/articles/v_19971000.html.

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PrincessSezMe,
Weird remark to make, especially when you think, whats the big deal over size, then who is she comparing him with. From memory Nedra only had daughters, right?

ILikeToBendPages said:

I often wonder about the conversations he and Beth Holloway had when they were dating. Two people that had their daughters murdered. Do you think Beth figured out who killed Jonbenet?

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LOL...Have no idea if Beth Holloway know or don't know the truth about JBR murder...But I can predict that JR's new marriage wouldn't last long.......

What I'm more concern is about JR's current relationship with BR, JAR and Malinda...Just wondering, if his children stays close to him after PR death?...and something else, when asked by LKL: 'What JonBenet would have been like today if she was still alive?' - JR answered: 'Handfull'. Interesting answer, isn't? What did he mean by 'handfull'?...Did he imply that JBR would be the 'problem' grown-up person?...

jmo

UKGuy said:

PrincessSezMe,
Weird remark to make, especially when you think, whats the big deal over size, then who is she comparing him with. From memory Nedra only had daughters, right?

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Yes, just the three daughters. Patsy, Pam and Paulette. Agree it's a wierd statement to make, especially about your grandson. From what I've read it seems Nedra was a bit "strange".

Flatlander said:

ST stated that she was crying and when asked she said she didn't feel pretty. This was the same day the 911 hang up call was made. Susan Stine answered the door and said it was a mistake, there was no problem at the house. I have understood that possibly JB made that call herself and am of the opinion that she had had enough. Maybe here again I am wrong.

The red turtleneck sweater is a very telling sign IMOO. When LE questioned PR about it she broke down. I know what has been discussed here and the opinion is that the rust colored trianguliar bruise on JB neck was caused from strangulation of the rope. It looks to me like she was strangeled previously; i.e. grabbed by the sweater (fist full) twisted and chocked. I probably am wrong here as well. Just what it looks like to me. I believe the strangulation was a cover up of something that took place earlier that evening.

And yes the pull up diapers were hanging out of the cabinets in the laundry room outside JB room. Wonder why since PR told LHP that she stopped putting them on JB? THe cabinet is where LHP hide BR knife from him; again this is my understanding.

On the 17th this is the day JB won the Colorado's Little Miss Christmas and recieved the Santa Bear. The night before was the Access Graphics Billion Dollar Sales Party. Possibly JB and BR were watched by a babysitter that evening.

Almost forgot. I read in one of the books I think PMPT that JB had yelled for somebody to wipe her at the White's Christmas party and that JR had done that. If that was the case that would explain his fiber's. It could have been FW I do not recall.

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I don't know if it was that was just that night. I think it was several times, and Fleet White didn't like being put in that position and I don't' blame him. He had a daughter and I'm sure he would of told his wife to go help her. If JonBenet had called out for help (anytime/any place) why didn't her mother help her?

I often wonder if Pasty had put JonBenet in a pull up for the White dinner party or when she put her to bed that night and JonBenet had wet through it. She may of not wanted to deal with cleaning and changing sheets. That on top of everything else could of been it and she lost it. JonBenet's bathroom was on the same side of the house as the Stantons and a scream could of been heard from there.

Could Pasty of found her and Burke having a snack and took her back to bed and found the wet sheets and that pissed her off more and she lost it there in the bedroom? putting her in bed? I do think something happened in that bathroom, but not sure if that night or the afternoon before going to the Whites. We know JonBenet had worn the white Gap top to the Whites,but could she of had it on under it? A compromise for Pasty? with Pasty taking off the Gap top when she put her to bed, then redressed her in it? There are to many things that point to a mother and the blanket. It's was like a mother does to wrap her new born baby. Not a thing a man would necessarily do.

Pasty not changing those sheets leave a lot to the imagination doesn't it? Dirty stinking sheets and blood on her pillow.....

I remember the "Oh God" when shown the turtleneck. Like the "Oh God" when shown the pictures of table and stairs. John had taken a few photos at the beginning of the of the roll before taking the Christmas morning ones. and clicked off the last for the police to take. I wonder what we can't see? Maybe Pasty's pad of paper? near the place the note was "found? John gave two pads of paper to the police that morning. He wrote his name on one and Pasty's on the other.

I'm not sure how to take Linda Pugh... I did crack up at her remarks about John's unfilled needs, and I think she pretty close to what happened to JonBenet.

I often wake up at night thinking about JonBenet. Thoughts running through my head about how things could of been done. But Pasty is always the one hurting JonBenet.

Nedra may of been small, but it seems like she had a mean mouth.