Kiomarie and other issues

Lemme see-- possible transient embarrassment to KC (if she had been innocent), vs the life or death of a helpless toddler?

Yep! No question! Kio is a bit of a heroine, in my book.

Sorry.. I can't see her effort to help find the baby as any kind of betrayal.

The ultimate betrayer is in jail. Forever, I hope.

Jolynna said:

BBM

I agree. Tony had been sharing a bed with KC for over 30 days. He let her use his car. He'd been saying the L-word.

He heard 31 days and dumped KC like a hot potato. I don't blame him. KC's behavior and refusal to cooperate with LE defied explanation. It was repulsive.

By July 17, 2008, the media had told the public that KC didn't have a job and that there wasn't a Zanny. KC had been arrested for not cooperating with the investigation.

I find Kio's going to LE and Tony's dumping KC appropriate responses to the situation as it went down. Kio didn't rat KC out. Kio told what she knew to help LE find Caylee, (the helpless child).

As Marc Klaas has said over and over again, you can't be too transparent when you have a missing child. You can't give up too much information when investigators are grabbing at each and every tidbit they can get their hand's on. Nobody should ever protect a buddy, give that buddy a heads up, or do ANYTHING other than run to LE when a baby's life is on the line.

imo

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Yep! You gotta hand it to Mark Klaas.

He DEMANDED that LE investigate him, so that they could clear him and get onto the trail of the criminal, while it was still warm. While there was some possibility of saving Polly.

He knew that LE clears the family first (because a family member is the most frequent perp). Then they work outward.

A thoroughly admirable man, and another hero.

If it took Klaas cutting open his chest to show LE his heart, I believe he woulda done it. Because his little Polly was his first, last, and only concern. Still is.

Also a bit of a hottie, IMHO. ;-)


On the other hand, we have a lying, whining, self-obsessed..... well, you know what I'm thinking. :-(

nyvictoria said:

Off topic but...

I had a horrible experience when my son was about 3 yrs old. We were in a department store, waiting for the elevator. He was out of his stroller, standing next to me. The elevator doors opened and my son ran in. Before I could maneuver the stroller, the doors closed. My son was in the elevator without me! I was frozen with fear, couldn't breathe, couldn't think. Fortunately, a very nice woman saw what happened. She ran over to me and pointed out the elevator was going up. She told me to run upstairs to meet him at the elevator. In the off chance I missed him on the second floor, she stayed on the first floor and sent her friend to the basement (in case the elevator ended up there). I ran up the down escalator to the second floor and got there just as the doors were opening. My son was standing in the elevator all alone, fine as could be without a care in the world and I was a wreck. I was never so relieved in my life. Needless to say, I never, ever again let go of his hand in a store. I felt terribly guilty and had nightmares for weeks. I thought I was the most irresponsible mother in the world. Just typing this, I can feel the anxiety I felt that day. I'm so grateful to that woman who had the sense to tell me what to do.

Casey never shed a tear (except the fake ones for herself). She never asked how the search was going. She never did a single solitary thing any normal, caring parent would do. There simply is no excuse. She's GUILTY!

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And, in the brief time that can elapse between noticing that you don't have your child, and spotting him/her...

Your body floods with adrenalin, your heart stops, you can't inhale. You can't think, because all of the neurons have frozen. You break into a cold sweat, and fear you might lose consciousness.

And, every, single nightmarish story you ever heard or read flashes through your mind.

Hello WS

July 22, 2008
Interview with LE
Joyce and Bailey Dickens

BD: This girl her name is Kio
JD: (cross talk) Kio
BD: Torres k-e-o t-o-r-r-e-s
JD: Yes
BD: Torres, now her dad lives down the street here Rafael, three houses down on the left, she used to live here, she came by to see her dad and her step-mom and her step-sister and then she came down to see us, gave us all a hug, she's told me she's engage to her boy friend she said he weighs 400lbs and ah, and she travels she works for a like a travel agency thing for Irish people, ah, she used to work at Universal Studios with her, and Casey worked there together.
LE: Right, okay, so this would have been Saturday...
JD: Yes
LE: ...which, this past Saturday so they...
BD: (interrupting) Saturday evening she came by here because we went to the vigils Sunday night down there...
JD: (cross talk agreement) Yes
BD: ...the prayer thing.
LE: Alright so Keo comes here and she tells you that on July 9th she was talking to Casey...
JD: Yes
LE: And she could hear a child in the background and Casey was responding to that child?
JD: Yes
LE: Okay, um, did she tell you anything else?
JD: Well she went on talkin' about how Keo and Casey and Julie another girl...
BD: Jessica (annoyed)
JD: Jessica was ah, best friends I said, I said one of the things on the news they said if there's any place you know where maybe, you know um Casey'd hung out at, please let us know and everything.
LE: Okay...
JD: And she told me about, there's a little school right over here, Hidden Oaks ...
BD: (interrupting) elementary school.
JD: elementary school.
BD: And the road that goes down, if you take our street Hopespring down there if, you turn right you go down and it dead (mumbles) you, you go down, you turn right on Suburban Drive and it dead ends into a fence, the elementary school is called Hidden Oaks its on the left, that's where my son went when he was one year ahead of her in school, ah one year behind her in school he knew her the whole time. Ah, the, the there was a bunch of fires purposely set up behind that school a couple of years ago so they built a big fence up all around there, so you can't get back in there anymore. I went down there to check it, the fence is all locked all ya gotta do is just do what she could drive right down the road and go back to the field. Keo told us she thinks if the babys buried it probably buried back there. I (mumble) when she told me that, Keo told me this she was sitting right in that chair, I said to her, you have got to give this information to the detectives, you have to do this. Well, I don't know what to do, I said just a minute, so I called Brian Burner down there he gave me Happy's na, detective Wells name and number and, and that was like on Saturday and I'm thinkin' Keo's a young girl she's like 22 she's scared that was her friend, I don't want to step over her bounds or nothin' but I don't now if Keo came forward and I know you can't ell me if she did, I'm not asking' you that. I just want to make damn sure you got this information.
LE: Well, I can guarantee you it'll be delivered.
JD: JD: Yeah, yeah but she said they used to go back there all the time, they just hung out and talked, you know, through out their middle school and high school...days.
BD: (interrupting) And I said did you smoke pot and drink beer ya know, she said, "no we just hung out as friends" that's what she, Keo said it and I believe her.
LE: Why I wonder what would lead her to believe that if the baby was buried, eh you know if it would be buried there, if it was dead?
BD: She also, she said there was a pond back there close by, its...
JD: ...swamp area.
BD: And her mother, Keo's mother told, has been tellin' Keo for the last week that, the babys buried around Hidden Oaks elementary school. And they, they...
LE: (interrupting) Do you have Keo's phone number by chance?
JD: No, I'm shoul...
BD: (interrupting) We can get it from her father.
LE: Well, well I'll definitely be headin' over there too, soon as I leave here.
JD: Yeah
LE: You know their address?
BD: It's the pink house on the left.
(cross talk)
JD: Ah, a few other things she said...
BD: It's straight out the front door...
JD: ...to is that, Casey really did like to party.
LE: She did or did not?
JD: She did.
BD: She did like to party.
JD: (inaudible)
BD: She would see her in clubs.
JD: Yeah
BD: She, she told her, this was very important, she she tell ya how brilliant this Casey is, she was seven months pregnant and she thinks she, it's too late for an abortion, she wanted to put the baby up for adoption and her mother...if there, they was a vote taken on the street she would be the ***** from hell on the street, if you understand what I am saying, that mother is, is she's acting all wonderful and nice now, she is evil and she can, very controlling person, control Casey and, ah, Keo said she would be down at the house in the afternoon when the mother came home from work, and if the dad was there, fine George but if the mother came she'd throw everybody out of the house immediately and see Keo said to me she threw me out because I was Puerto Rican. I don't want to get into all that but she said that her mother just didn't like those people. And then she said Casey would date Puerto Rican boys just to upset her mother. Because that was a love/hate relationship there, the mother is pretty domineering.
JD: And I think she said...
(cross talk)
LE: (interrupting) This is, Keo telling you though?
JD: Yes, oh yes.
BD: Yes
LE: ...didn't hear any of this directly from Casey?
JD: No, no we have not. But another thing she said about Casey was Casey apparently told Keo that her mother had been in a psycho ward for a week. I don't know if that's true or not, 'cause were finding out, ya know she's such a liar, we don't know if that's true.
BD: About three, three to four years ago, right after that baby was born, the mother threw the husband out the house, she had a boyfriend they were gonna get a divorce and then about six, eight months later George showed back up at the house, she brought him back in. She's the one that makes all the money, he can't keep a job she is very domineering, a complete control freak...
LE: This is Casey's mom?
BD: Casey's mom.
JD: Yeah
BD: And she, neighbor, Brian's wife that live right beside her, she said I've lived here three years she hasn't said seven words to me. Tha, that mother, I am tellin' ya, she is very controlling and she's evil but...what Keo said, ah she Keo also said that she didn't, she did want to get rid of the baby but the mother wouldn't let her. The mother made her keep the baby and have the baby. And, and I think the baby was cramping that girls style. As far as working and, and money, I don't know of anything she even did.
(skip)
BD: But Keo is, I would believe anything she says she's credible, we have known her since she was a little girl.
LE: Okay well I'll definitely go down there, if you wouldn't mind (inaudible) I'd appreciate that. Now, let me ask you this, take you back um, all of this was relayed to you on Saturday by Keo?
JD: Keo herself.
BD: Yes
(skip)
LE: Yeah. Alright, um you said something about when she was pregnant supposedly Keo also told you she wanted to give the baby up for adoption?
JD: She did and Keo was kind of leaning toward adopting the baby but the mother wouldn't not let it happen.
LE: Keo's mother? Which mother?
JD: No, no no Cindy
BD: Cindy
JD: Casey's mother(inaudible)
BD: She made her have the baby.
JD: Yeah
BD: And, and they ruined that baby, whenever they were having a garage sale down there, they probably have two thousand dollars worth of old baby clothes for sale down there, they spoil that baby, out of this world...
JD: They love that baby, I mean George and Cindy love that baby.
BD: Oh yeah, they would push the, the baby up and down the street in the stroller and never saw the mother do it even one time.
JD: They definitely, you know Keo said she's definitely a party girl. She wanted to be out clubbing an doing things um...
BD: (interrupting) The string of boyfriends that come by here could be lined up from Toledo Ohio and back...
JD: (interrupting) Uh-huh (affirmative)
BD: ...She had 'em, let me tall ya.
LE: Okay, can you both do me a favor? Can you both raise your left hand...

:cow:

Thanks Chiquita! Been a long time since I've read this, forgot about some parts.

Like this one about Cindy: "if there, they was a vote taken on the street she would be the ***** from hell on the street,"

And CASEY had to be crappin' bricks when she read this part - which I'm sure she did: "And her mother, Keo's mother told, has been tellin' Keo for the last week that, the babys buried around Hidden Oaks elementary school. And they, they..."

Actually, Cindy, George and Casey all were probably STEAMING after reading this interview! heh

Muzikman said:

Thanks Chiquita! Been a long time since I've read this, forgot about some parts.

Like this one about Cindy: "if there, they was a vote taken on the street she would be the ***** from hell on the street,"

And CASEY had to be crappin' bricks when she read this part - which I'm sure she did: "And her mother, Keo's mother told, has been tellin' Keo for the last week that, the babys buried around Hidden Oaks elementary school. And they, they..."

Actually, Cindy, George and Casey all were probably STEAMING after reading this interview! heh

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It is well and truly said that Karma is the biggest biotch on the planet.

AND, she has a very dry and ironic sense of humor. (EEK!)

Thank you to all who weighed in on this subject. There was a post by Friday - which I can't find today - that was closest to my thoughts on this subject. I also appreciate the post Chiquita71 put together which gives a clearer picture of the actual impetus for KMTC getting together with LE. At any rate, I find that it is always beneficial to review the witnesses interviews as the case goes on.

I personally find that what is missing from KMTC's interview as intriguing as what is contained in the interview.

JBean said:

if you personally think the horse is dead, don't beat it. Takes 2 or more to give a horse a good shellacking, imo.

if you think a post is worth responding to, then do. if you don't think it is then don't respond.


If there are any posts that state fact incorrectly, please alert on them specifically.

thanks.

as always where this post lands on the thread has no bearing on to whom it is directed. It is for everybody.

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You are absolutely correct...as usual...and I agree completely...

But...

I had somehow missed this Dickens interview so I have a whole new fresh live horse to beat there! lol:angel:

Brini said:

Like what?

Click to expand...

Uncertainty

magic-cat said:

You are absolutely correct...as usual...and I agree completely...

But...

I had somehow missed this Dickens interview so I have a whole new fresh live horse to beat there! lol:angel:

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Yeah.. I had written the thread off for posting, but was still lurking.

It somehow freshened itself! :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Princess Rose said:

Uncertainty

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Whose? About what? Thanks, honey!

lin said:

And if I ever regained my senses, I'd be mad if they didn't do all that!!

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It is often said that you don't get between a lioness and her cub.

During one psychology class, the prof asked whether anyone thought s/he was capable of killing a human being.

I answered, "Prolly everyone here, under certain circumstances. Try threatening her child in front of a woman. "

OR a man, actually. Mark Klaas had to be restrained from launching himself at Polly's killer.

Class discussion ended, BTW. No one disagreed.

LE says most innocent parents of missing children actually harass LE. They call endlessly, wanting updates. Some almost camp out at the cop shop. They rush to provide info, even getting into trivial and useless stuff.

Since most cops are also parents or grandparents, they understand.

lin said:

A lot happened between those dates including it became national news that Caylee was missing and that KC had lied and lied and lied not just to everyone that knew her but also to LE that was trying to find Caylee. Also consider that at the time the loan was contemplated, Kio thought KC had a great job as an event planner and could pay her back easily.

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How do you explain that Kio forgot which Casey she had agreed to loan money too? That's the part that I can't stomach - nor do I believe a person would make that mistake.

I mean, really! :waitasec:

Woe.be.gone said:

How do you explain that Kio forgot which Casey she had agreed to loan money too? That's the part that I can't stomach - nor do I believe a person would make that mistake.

I mean, really! :waitasec:

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Well, it may be because I'm not exactly in my 20s, like Kio is. But, I get people with the same name mixed up on the phone, on occasion.

One of my closest friends recently did that. I have the same first name as her sister-in-law. She was a couple minutes into the conversation, before she figured out with whom she was speaking.


One important thing to remember: Kio is not responsible for initiating any of the charges against KC. If the evidence had not been pointing SO strongly at KC, from "day one" nothing anyone said could've moved LE to suspect her.

If KC had been innocent, she would have suffered nothing more than a brief period of embarrassment.

KC made herself the immediate suspect, mainly by refusing to report her child missing. Secondarily by accusing an obviously fictitious person. Trying to derail the investigation didn't help, either.

One of KC's biggest mistakes was claiming kidnapping. That opened the door to the feds.

Looks, from the posts, like Kio struggled with herself re: reporting what she knew-- and she won! She did the right thing for the baby. The baby was the ONLY valid consideration, in this case. If KC had been an innocent, concerned mother, she would have agreed.

It also appears that some of KC's friends had smelled a rat re: KC, even before Caylee disappeared. Because of KC's behaviors.

So, IMHO, Kio did her citizen's duty, and absolutely the right thing.

Brini said:

Well, it may be because I'm not exactly in my 20s, like Kio is. But, I get people with the same name mixed up on the phone, on occasion.

One of my closest friends recently did that. I have the same first name as her sister-in-law.

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Interesting - I never have. Always know who I'm talking to especially when being asked to hand some money over.

One thing's for sure, I've learned that if I'm ever asked to give LE an opinion, I can change my story a few times and say what I want even if not collaborated by several other people and the general public will believe me.

I'm one who doesn't believe everybody just because - I've learned that the hard way. When something stinks I need to search out the truth. I can't do that over the computer - just like I don't know KC; I don't know Kio.

It puzzles me how so many websleuthers just take her at face value when she didn't give a smooth/solid testimony. Call me distrustful but I'd rather error on the side of caution and hear all the evidence before I form an opinion about this stranger.

I don't get a lot of peoples' strong, solid opinions about this - I just don't.

Brini said:

Well, it may be because I'm not exactly in my 20s, like Kio is. But, I get people with the same name mixed up on the phone, on occasion.

One of my closest friends recently did that. I have the same first name as her sister-in-law.

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Brini - throughout the whole conversation and then beyond it too? I mean, I've initially, for a brief moment, not known exactly who a caller was but once the conversation got underway something always clued me in and I adjusted.

It is far fetched imo to think that someone could agree to loan someone else money and not know who it is - are their voices identical?

Woe.be.gone said:

Brini - throughout the whole conversation and then beyond it too? I mean, I've initially, for a brief moment, not known exactly who a caller was but once the conversation got underway something always clued me in and I adjusted.

It is far fetched imo to think that someone could agree to loan someone else money and not know who it is - are their voices identical?

Click to expand...

Who knows:? If one is busy or distracted or multi-tasking, one might not be listening well enough. Or, if one had not spoken with the caller, for awhile.

Bottom line: The criminal here is KC, not Kio.

If you don't agree-- that's OK.

If everybody agreed, we wouldn't have online forums. ;-)

Brini said:

Well, it may be because I'm not exactly in my 20s, like Kio is. But, I get people with the same name mixed up on the phone, on occasion.

One of my closest friends recently did that. I have the same first name as her sister-in-law. She was a couple minutes into the conversation, before she figured out with whom she was speaking.


One important thing to remember: Kio is not responsible for initiating any of the charges against KC. If the evidence had not been pointing SO strongly at KC, from "day one" nothing anyone said could've moved LE to suspect her.

If KC had been innocent, she would have suffered nothing more than a brief period of embarrassment.

KC made herself the immediate suspect, mainly by refusing to report her child missing. Secondarily by accusing an obviously fictitious person. Trying to derail the investigation didn't help, either.

One of KC's biggest mistakes was claiming kidnapping. That opened the door to the feds.

Looks, from the posts, like Kio struggled with herself re: reporting what she knew-- and she won! She did the right thing for the baby. The baby was the ONLY valid consideration, in this case. If KC had been an innocent, concerned mother, she would have agreed.

It also appears that some of KC's friends had smelled a rat re: KC, even before Caylee disappeared. Because of KC's behaviors.

So, IMHO, Kio did her citizen's duty, and absolutely the right thing.

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I know all of the above. But we're talking about the believability of someone named Kio. We're not talking about all of the evidence that leads up to KC's probable guilt. There are so many strange testimonies surrounding KC that it does smack of something - what, I do not know.

We need to be able to discuss all angles - not just the ones that automatically send KC up without a trial. The last time I checked I was still in America where you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

I get scared when I sense I'm on a cite that reads the verdict way before a case ever goes to trial - is that what this is supposed to be?

Woe.be.gone said:

I know all of the above. But we're talking about the believability of someone named Kio. We're not talking about all of the evidence that leads up to KC's probable guilt. There are so many strange testimonies surrounding KC that it does smack of something - what, I do not know.

We need to be able to discuss all angles - not just the ones that automatically send KC up without a trial. The last time I checked I was still in America where you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

I get scared when I sense I'm on a cite that reads the verdict way before a case ever goes to trial - is that what this is supposed to be?

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Innocence until proven guilty is a COURT distinction. We can discuss this until who shot John. We have no power with KC's court. She IS getting her trial. Nor is there any law that applies to personal opinion. That's why voir dire exists-- to weed out potential jurors who have strong opinions.

If evidence was revealed that explained all of this in KC's favor (which has been promised by JB, but has not been produced) we'd change our minds. All the evidence so far points the other way. And, there is no evidence pointing to anyone else.

But, we DO have more information about the evidence than most people.

Now, if you are feeling antsy about testimonial inconsistencies, the most frequent are those of KC, herself, and her family. And, the inconsistencies are very material.

So, if you are not convinced, there is no problem. Not to KC's judicial process, and no one has a problem with you for not agreeing.

Thanks, honey!XXXXOOOOO

Woe.be.gone said:

I know all of the above. But we're talking about the believability of someone named Kio. We're not talking about all of the evidence that leads up to KC's probable guilt. There are so many strange testimonies surrounding KC that it does smack of something - what, I do not know.

We need to be able to discuss all angles - not just the ones that automatically send KC up without a trial. The last time I checked I was still in America where you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

I get scared when I sense I'm on a cite that reads the verdict way before a case ever goes to trial - is that what this is supposed to be?

Click to expand...

WBG - of course people are innocent until proven guilty. In a court of law. Most of us here have lived with this case daily, poring over all kinds of available evidence, trying to draw conclusions. Unlike the jury who will be hand-picked to only consider evidence admitted in court.

It is also our right to become convinced this person is guilty when the evidence against her seems overwhelming, when her family has done a 180 turn on their description of her actions, and when the defense has tried to implicate others with no motive or opportunity to kill Caylee. And it's our right to state our opinions on a public forum. None of us have a snowball's chance to be on that jury, simply because we've spent so much time researching and talking about it here. So the actual results of this trial are safe from us and our opinions and thoughts.

Personally, I think discussion and debate of facts is a great way to either solidify one's own position on an issue or realize its inherent weakness and tweak our perspective.

I think what bothers many here is when very peripheral, ancillary people are put under the same spotlight as someone who, due to the convening of a grand jury, has been indicted for murder. These people are not accused of a crime (although even just knowing KC must feel like it to some these days with all the public scrutiny) or are they running for public office. They aren't perfect in any way. They do, however, collectively show a pattern of perception to the accused and her behavior, which is important. The scary thing for me is that many of them may be used as scapegoats for that very fact.