General Discussion Thread #4

Pisto_lius said:

Two or four bullets fired through the toilet door?

The indictment makes it clear: OP fired FOUR shots through the closed [toilet] door at Reeva. Two bullet holes are seen (marked) at the door on the crime scene pictures - the other two bullet holes should therefore have been found on the broken panel.


Is it important for the PT's indictment of "premeditated murder" whether OP was on his prosthetic legs or not?

No, because alone the fact that "he fired unlawfully and intentionally FOUR shots [not one, not two, not three - but FOUR] with the direct intension to kill a person" justified "premeditation" - whether he was on his prosthetic legs or not.

The testimony of some witnesses (not only one witness): a woman screamed..... followed of moments of silence..... then gunshots..... then more screaming - additionally underscore this and proves once and for all that he knew AND heard it was Reeva in the toilet and NOT an intruder.

Was the bullet found by the DT (Perumal) inside the toilet bowl the same bullet that crushed Reeva's skull?

No! As we know so far, the bullet that crushed Reeva's skull (and all the other bullets) only caused an entrance wound.

No exit wounds were mentioned.

So, the bullet found inside the toilet door was another one, the fourth fired through the door but missed Reeva's body. And this fourth bullet caused a mark at the wall in the toilet.

In the skull, gunshot wounds often produce numerous fractures due to rapidly increasing pressure as the bullet travels through the skull.

For all:

Click to expand...

8.35am Reeva Steenkamp's post mortem showed three entrance wounds, on the right side of the head above the ear.

She also had another gunshot wound in the arm which broke her elbow and another in her hip.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-live-recap-court-1718837#ixzz2d2poBOnQ

I cannot figure this out so need your help. If OP fired four shots, three of which entered her head on the right side, and the fourth one missed her body causing a mark on the wall, how do you account for the two other gunshot wounds - one in the arm which broke her body and another in her hip? Did they first enter her head?

Also was this fourth spent bullet projectile the one found in the toilet bowl after it ricocheted off the wall so it had no body tissue on it?

WHERE was OP when he said he turned on the lights?

Please, note exactly what OP said in his affidavit:

When I reached the bed I realised that Reeva was not in bed..... I returned to the bathroom calling her name..... I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help..... I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights..... I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door.....

According to his own words he was in the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open when he "thought" he must have turned on the lights !

And after that he went through the passage back into the still pitch dark bedroom....

I hope, PT will notice this, too and they will use this against him ....
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MURDERER_SERVANT said:

IF RS was crouched behind the door and all the 4 shots were fired continously behind the door and and she couldnt move and shout and she died at the scene , how will the defence explain so much blood on the left side of the toilet bowl ?

*she either was wounded and alive for a while and could sit herself left side her left hand maybe on the wall supporting herself or
*was dead already and sitted there as if to give the impression she was sitting on the toilet but as she was dead couldnt be sitted in the middle but on the side..

Click to expand...

- as I wrote weeks before:

If RS was crouched behind the door and OP sat her on the toilet seat to give the impression she was sitting there when he fired the 4 shots through the door

1. there could be NO blood on the left side of the toilet seat because she was wounded on the right side of her body by all the shots

2. there must be blood soaked prosthetic leg footprints inside the toilet

3. you would see a dragging trace through the whole big pool of blood because he pulled her from this position into the bathroom but there is only a small dragging trace right side at the end of the pool of blood (toward the door)

4. you would see more blood drops in the whole toilet


Why there is blood on the left side of the toilet seat and why this blood looks like someone has blurred it?

I could imagine, OP and/or his helpers a) opened the toilet lid and b) gave some blood with his/their hands on the toilet seat after the shooting so they might say Reeva was on the toilet to pee. But he/they confused the side where he/they blurred the blood on the toilet seat and forgot that one bullet could be found inside the toilet bowl if Reeva was sitting on the toilet.
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whiterum said:

OP, IMO could also have squatted on his prosthetics for support and a better aim with his two hands holding the gun , making his aim considerably lower

Also after he shot four bullets you would expect that he would have had gunpowder deposits all over his hands etc. So IMO he would have left finger or hand prints containing this residue on the passageway cupboard doors /walls area, around his height on stumps or otherwise , as he supposedly felt his way walking backwards in pitch darkness on his stumps back to the bed .

Also on the the blinds, curtains and sliding doors at stump level or otherwise when he opened them all again after shooting to scream from the balcony . This residue would IMO be found on all the areas he would have touched in the bedroom , according to his affidavit , before he dragged Reeva from the toilet covering himself in her blood.

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Excellent post Whiterum .. Totally agree..

Wowww. Estelle.. Pisto... Great timelines thanks for that...:cupcake:

Oscar Pistorius wanted 'boys' night out' prior to shooting RS
25 Aug 2013 00:01

On 13 February, a friend had tried to persuade OP to go for dinner with them but RS asked him to stay home so she could cook a romantic dinner for him

In a statement, OP's best friend, Justin Divaris, said: “I tried to convince OP to stay in Johannesburg that night and come for a boys’ dinner.”

Divaris’s girlfriend Sam Greyvenstein, 29, had asked RS to watch a movie with her, but RS had said no.

Graham Binge, 33, told police OP had said on February 13 that he and RS planned to live together. He said: “OP said he had bought a new house in Johannesburg.”

Click to expand...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-athlete-wanted-boys-2217207

Comment: Why has it taken the Mirror over six months to report what Justin Divaris and Sam Greyvenstein said at the bail hearing?

Unfortunately what Divaris said has since been found to be untrue after police found evidence of a call between him and OP on the evening of February 13. That is why he and Sam Greyvenstein are now on the Prosecution's witness list.

However, the Telegraph reported that Valerie Berkow-Kaye, a real estate agent, attended a party with OP on the afternoon of February 13 — hours before the shooting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...at-central-piece-of-evidence-against-him.html

"OP's cousin, Graham Binge, 33, told police that OP had said on February 13 that he and Reeva planned to live together"

Graham Binge is OP's cousin and yet another family member prepared to say anything they can to try to make it look as if OP was serious about RS. OP had no plans whatsoever to do so, just the same as there is no evidence to back up their claims that OP planned to take RS travelling with him.

Why would he? What evidence there is, is not just that he was seeing other women but that he had planned to finish with RS? OP had not even bought her a Valentine's Day present or even a card. There are people on the State's witness list who will testify that OP had agreed to meet her at his house that evening with the intention of ending it face to face with RS. That is why he had not garaged his car earlier and had left the keys in the ignition as if he was intending to go out again to join the boys.

"Graham Binge said: "OP said he had bought a new house in Johannesburg."

OP had bought a house but that was in the previous December 2012. I doubt very much that he would have waited two months to tell his cousin he had done so. I have no doubt that RS expected to be asked to move in, just the same as she had expected to be taken as his guest to events that he was invited to in Cape Town at the end of January but he did not take her with him as is now known. OP cheated on RS in those days and he kept in touch with another woman.

However, her parents reported

that RS, a law graduate, had planned to return to Port Elizabeth and set up a legal firm to add to her income from modelling.

Click to expand...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hter-Oscar-Pistorious-time.html#ixzz2d3sLlqlg

OP "did tweet a photo in December in which he said he was enjoying the sun and RS company" but at no other time in December (or any other time) did OP tweet such a thing. From 29 November to 14 December, OP was abroad, during which time he tweeted RS only once in response to a tweet from her.

On his return, they did not meet up until 19 December when OP was having lunch with a friend and RS and her friend turned up at the same place. Later that evening, OP got some friends together for a second birthday celebration. However, OP spent hours into the early hours of the morning on the phone talking to someone who had not been able to be there because they had to fly out urgently the day before.

Following that, they didn't see each other until 23 December. They did not even spend Christmas together and on 26 December, OP flew to Cape Town for New Year without RS. RS made (and also paid) her own way there on 1st January although he had not invited her to join him.

The Daily Mail reported:

Reeva’s romantic break with her boyfriend at Christmas, however, did not happen. She called home to say she was spending the festive season with girlfriends and OP had gone to Cape Town with other friends. ‘We didn’t know what to make of it,’ says June. ‘Girls don’t tell their mothers everything. But she sounded all right and seemed to know where Oscar was and what he was doing. It was strange, though, and we missed her so much that day.’

June’s concerns mounted when OP was spotted partying on a friend’s yacht in Cape Town during the holidays. One newspaper headline asked: ‘Where’s Reeva?’

Click to expand...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hter-Oscar-Pistorious-time.html#ixzz2d3uAPs25

Estelle said:

8.35am Reeva Steenkamp's post mortem showed three entrance wounds, on the right side of the head above the ear.

She also had another gunshot wound in the arm which broke her elbow and another in her hip.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-live-recap-court-1718837#ixzz2d2poBOnQ

I cannot figure this out so need your help. If OP fired four shots, three of which entered her head on the right side, and the fourth one missed her body causing a mark on the wall, how do you account for the two other gunshot wounds - one in the arm which broke her body and another in her hip? Did they first enter her head?

Also was this fourth spent bullet projectile the one found in the toilet bowl after it ricocheted off the wall so it had no body tissue on it?

Click to expand...

This report (and other) was a bit mistakable

In the BH it was said:

OP shot four times through the toilet door and hit RS three times

10:25 - Botha: I was present during [the] post-mortem. Three entrance wounds: [ONE] right side of head (ear), [ONE] right elbow (broke arm), [ONE] hip.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/LIVE-UPDATES-Pistorius-in-court-day-2-20130220

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And it was also said in the BH that one of this shots missed Reeva's body, caused *a particular mark on the toilet wall* and was found inside the toilet bowl. So, this bullet had no body tissue on it, as I explained before:

I don't trust the reports about "a missing bullet with brain particles and blood in the toilet" on it at all.

1. There is water inside the toilet bowl so, brain particle and blood wouldn't stick to the bullet for hours (till they found and retrieved this bullet)

2. If there were brain particles on the bullet this would mean this shot must have been a penetrating gunshot wound.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9622543&postcount=855

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But in the BBC docu/interview Perumal said:

RS was shot in the region of the right hip
She was shot in the right arm
She was shot in the head

There was also a shot in one of the fingers in the left hand, so whether three shots or four shots it won't be easy to say at this stage.

He never specified the exactly location of the head wound.

Click to expand...

And media reported:

She was hit in the head and body four times in total. But police now believe the first shot was fired at her in the master bedroom – hitting her hip as she fled to the bathroom.

Wounds to the top of her head suggest that as she sat doubled up in pain on the toilet she was hit three more times by bullets that ripped through the door, the tabloid said.

Experts say she may have been covering her head protectively with her hands, which explains the bullet wounds to her finger and arm.
http://www.iol.co.za/dailynews/news/pistorius-steroid-rage-probe-1.1472193#.UhsA7NK-2So

Means: one shot = one wound/hit to the top of her head and one shot = two wounds/hits to her finger and arm.

Click to expand...

According to the indictment:

OP fired four shots through the toilet door and the cause of death is given in the post-mortem report as "multiple gunshot wounds".


So, what's unknown until now:

- Fired OP more than four shots in another area of the house (i.e. the bedroom) so that Reeva was hit more than three times?

- Or was she hit three times and one of this shots caused a fourth wound (on her hand/finger) because she have been covering her head protectively with her hands?

- What was the first and what was the final shot?

I guess the head shot was the fatal and last shot. But I can't say whether Reeva died immediately after the head shot or minutes later, due to the blood loss of all the shots together.

Feynman said:

Yes, Silver Woods, thanks for the correction. With regard to previous breaches of security, the head of security at Silver Woods stated that there had been 4 previous "incidents" at SW in the past 3 years, the most recent one occurring in October 2011. See

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj8TF4MrO8Q

starting around 45:50.

Click to expand...

Thank you for that. I managed to find a burglary 5 years ago but that was all. I live in a small community in the UK and we would expect to see a number of burglaries every year but not with any associated violence on the part of either the burglar or property owner. It seems to me, given the crime rate in SA, that Silver Woods was remarkably safe. So safe, in fact, that OP went to sleep knowingly leaving windows and balcony doors open. Strange for him to be so concerned about his safety and yet leave his home open to "attack".

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2013/...rius-temper-use-guns-in-murder/#ixzz2d3zC8YNd

OP's character, his temper and use of guns are expected to be examined in his murder trial for the killing of RS based on the prosecution's list of witnesses.

I have shortened this where possible.

FIRST ON THE SCENE
Johan Stander was first person OP phoned after he shot RS and OP asked him to call an ambulance. Stander arrived at the house as OP carried a fatally wounded RS downstairs. As the first person to talk to and to see OP after the shooting, Stander's observations of the immediate aftermath may help a judge decide whether OP had minutes earlier committed murder, as prosecutors say, or made a deadly mistake — the core of the trial.
___

<Modsnip>

Click to expand...

If he fired the first shot , one of the four from the bathroom entrance, near to where a bullet casing lay, this first shot could not be the shot to the head, since the head shot was from a short distance.

So RS would not be immediately incapacitated, she would obviously be screaming out at this point as he moves forward for a closer and better aim to around the spot where the other 3 casings lay.

This first shot ( if fired from the entrance) could not either be any of the other two bullets that hit her hip and arm, as she was hit from around 5 ft where the other 3 casings lay closer to the toilet, in whatever interval between or whatever sequence.

So IMO what is left is the bullet that is said to have hit the wall and landed in the toilet bowl.

So in this scenario, the casing found near to the bathroom entrance , IMO has to be the casing of the bullet that was found or was claimed to be found in the toilet bowl, providing that none of the other three bullets had exited had her body.

How come Arnu Fourie is not on the character witness list. I am sure we all remember reading this:-

"At the London Games, I was chatting to Oscar&#8217;s roommate in the Athletes&#8217; Village, Arnu Fourie, who had just won the bronze medal in the 100m, edging his good friend Oscar out of the medals. Oscar was genuinely elated at his mate&#8217;s success. They were obviously very close and I asked Fourie what it was like rooming with Oscar. He told me he had been forced to move out, because Oscar was constantly screaming in anger at people on the phone. I thought Fourie was joking and waited for him to smile. But he was serious. I was taken aback. I had never thought of Oscar behaving like that."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...74684/Oscar-Pistorius-Not-the-boy-I-knew.html

Interested Bystander said:

How come Arnu Fourie is not on the character witness list. I am sure we all remember reading this:-

"At the London Games, I was chatting to Oscar&#8217;s roommate in the Athletes&#8217; Village, Arnu Fourie, who had just won the bronze medal in the 100m, edging his good friend Oscar out of the medals. Oscar was genuinely elated at his mate&#8217;s success. They were obviously very close and I asked Fourie what it was like rooming with Oscar. He told me he had been forced to move out, because Oscar was constantly screaming in anger at people on the phone. I thought Fourie was joking and waited for him to smile. But he was serious. I was taken aback. I had never thought of Oscar behaving like that."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...74684/Oscar-Pistorius-Not-the-boy-I-knew.html

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Pistorius teammates stand fast

Pistorius's Paralympic relay teammate, Arnu Fourie, did do an interview with us expressing his support for the athlete. He also responded to reports that he moved out of the room he shared with Pistorius at the Paralympics because he couldn't handle staying with him. But Fourie has now asked that this interview not be shown, saying "this is such a sensitive topic for me". Fourie has been to visit Pistorius following his arrest, but says he chooses to support him away from the public eye.

Click to expand...

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/pistorius-team-mates-stand-fast

Video: http://www.3news.co.nz/Oscar-Pistor...nreal/tabid/417/articleID/286902/Default.aspx

One of Oscar Pistorius&#8217; Paralympic teammates says he is devastated his friend has been charged with murder. Arnu Fourie was in the South African men&#8217;s relay team with Pistorius when they won gold in the 4 x 100 T42-26 relay at the London 2012 Paralympic Games. Fourie told Firstline the two are &#8220;good mates&#8221; off the track as well. He says he is struggling to come to terms with the news that Pistorius is accused of shooting dead his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.

Click to expand...

Interested Bystander said:

Thank you for that. I managed to find a burglary 5 years ago but that was all. I live in a small community in the UK and we would expect to see a number of burglaries every year but not with any associated violence on the part of either the burglar or property owner. It seems to me, given the crime rate in SA, that Silver Woods was remarkably safe. So safe, in fact, that OP went to sleep knowingly leaving windows and balcony doors open. Strange for him to be so concerned about his safety and yet leave his home open to "attack".

Click to expand...

http://tia-mysoa.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/crime-and-violence-in-pretoria-east.html

I think the last burglary they had was an inside job in 2011. Since then they had improved their security to be almost as good as you could get.

Therefore, since then OP had felt confident enough to:

1. Leave his bedroom balcony doors open until 3am
2. Leave his bathroom window open until 3am
3. Leave ladders lying around so that intruders could climb up into his open bathroom window.

BTW why didn't they climb up the ladder on to his bedroom balcony instead? It would have been a lot easier! Oh, I forgot they wanted to use the toilet first!

Quote excerpted for brevity

Estelle said:

Oscar Pistorius wanted 'boys' night out' prior to shooting RS
25 Aug 2013 00:01

On 13 February, a friend had tried to persuade OP to go for dinner with them but RS asked him to stay home so she could cook a romantic dinner for him

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-athlete-wanted-boys-2217207

Comment: Why has it taken the Mirror over six months to report what Justin Divaris and Sam Greyvenstein said at the bail hearing?

Click to expand...

Maybe The Mirror did not notice it before, but reading WS We discussed it on 18 August - 7 days earlier than The Mirror's report came out.

Estelle said:

Unfortunately what Divaris said has since been found to be untrue after police found evidence of a call between him and OP on the evening of February 13. That is why he and Sam Greyvenstein are now on the Prosecution's witness list.

Click to expand...

I would say the main reason why Justin D. and Sam G. are on the PT's witness list is the interview Justin gave and in which he told that OP called him at 03.55 a.m. on February 14. Justin also spoke on the phone with the female neighbour (probably the daughter of Stander) who told him more details about what happened.

And both - Justin and Sam - immediately rushed to OP's house where they arrived when police called it a crime scene. But they talked with OP in the garage and it's clear that PT wanna know what was talked on the phone and in the garage.

For the rest - I agree
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Pisto_lius said:

Quote excerpted for brevity



Maybe The Mirror did not notice it before, but reading WS We discussed it on 18 August - 7 days earlier than The Mirror's report came out.




I would say the main reason why Justin D. and Sam G. are on the PT's witness list is the interview Justin gave and in which he told that OP called him at 03.55 a.m. on February 14. Justin also spoke on the phone with the female neighbour (probably the daughter of Stander) who told him more details about what happened.

And both - Justin and Sam - immediately rushed to OP's house where they arrived when police called it a crime scene. But they talked with OP in the garage and it's clear that PT wanna know what was talked on the phone and in the garage.

For the rest - I agree
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Click to expand...

Also their statments differ with OP's on the point who called who ? They said OP called Reeva
contraray to OP'S affi.

I had also felt a conradiction in Sam's affi.. She mentioned that Reeva told her she would marry her if he asked . And then she mentioned Reeva complained that OP was moving very fast in the relationship. If Reeva wanted to marry him , would't she be happy from his intense behavior and moving fast in the relationship?

Estelle said:

Pistorius teammates stand fast



http://www.enca.com/south-africa/pistorius-team-mates-stand-fast

Video: http://www.3news.co.nz/Oscar-Pistor...nreal/tabid/417/articleID/286902/Default.aspx

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I imagine AF does feel very bad but I would have thought it very germane to the current case and, although he may be a hostile witness, he would hardly be able to deny it. For your close friend to find you impossible to live with, even for a few days, says quite a lot IMO. A close friend is likely to see the "real you" and not the "public you".

Estelle said:

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2013/...rius-temper-use-guns-in-murder/#ixzz2d3zC8YNd

OP's character, his temper and use of guns are expected to be examined in his murder trial for the killing of RS based on the prosecution's list of witnesses.

I have shortened this where possible.

___

<Modsnip>

Click to expand...

From your link - Boah - again a lot of errors because it seems, media are not able to give true information.

FIRST ON THE SCENE
Johan Stander was first person OP phoned after he shot RS and OP asked him to call an ambulance. Stander arrived at the house as OP carried a fatally wounded RS downstairs. As the first person to talk to and to see OP after the shooting, Stander's observations of the immediate aftermath may help a judge decide whether OP had minutes earlier committed murder, as prosecutors say, or made a deadly mistake &#8212; the core of the trial.

Click to expand...

This is not quite correct &#8211; Johan Stander wasn&#8217;t the only first person who talked to and saw OP after the shooting. OP phoned the female neighbour (probably the daughter of Stander) shortly after 03.00 a.m. &#8211; maybe she first was on the phone when OP called Stander - and she, Stander and the unknown doctor arrived together at 03.20 a.m. at the scene.

OP said in his affidavit, Stander and the doctor arrieved at the same time but he did not mention the female neighbour. But she gave a testimony by police.

It is reported that the female neighbour appears to believe OP and, for now, is the star witness for the defence.
http://sundaytribune.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx

[If the link doesn't work, please try it with Google Search notes "Sundaytribune + Audrey" - the first sentence of the article: "IT WAS shortly after 3am on February 14 when Oscar Pistorius called his close friend *Audrey...."]

NEIGHBORS, GUARDS & 'THE DOCTOR'
The prosecution says that OP "walked into security guards" when he went downstairs carrying RS. The guards are not mentioned by OP.

Click to expand...

I would say this is another misinterpretation. The PT knew in the BH that OP called Stander and - as I explained before - Stander was called by Botha and Roux as "security guard" but he is the security manager.

PISTORIUS' FAMILY & FRIENDS
Uncle Arnold, Carl and Aimee are all named as prosecution witnesses.

Click to expand...

That's also not true - OP&#8217;s brother Carl isn&#8217;t on PT&#8217;s witness list. Uncle Arnold, Aimee and father Henke are, that&#8217;s right.
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whiterum said:

If he fired the first shot , one of the four from the bathroom entrance, near to where a bullet casing lay, this first shot could not be the shot to the head, since the head shot was from a short distance.

So RS would not be immediately incapacitated, she would obviously be screaming out at this point as he moves forward for a closer and better aim to around the spot where the other 3 casings lay.

This first shot ( if fired from the entrance) could not either be any of the other two bullets that hit her hip and arm, as she was hit from around 5 ft where the other 3 casings lay closer to the toilet, in whatever interval between or whatever sequence.

So IMO what is left is the bullet that is said to have hit the wall and landed in the toilet bowl.

So in this scenario, the casing found near to the bathroom entrance , IMO has to be the casing of the bullet that was found or was claimed to be found in the toilet bowl, providing that none of the other three bullets had exited had her body.

Click to expand...

If the reports that "the damage was caused by the bullets’ impact from a short distance" are true - untill now it's not confirmed - then this concerns ALL gunshot wounds because it was said that Reeva was in a crouching position directly behind the toilet door when the shots were fired. And it was also said that OP fired from a distance of 1,5 meters - all four shots.

- The location of the four cartridges [allegedly three found in the bathroom, one in the passage way] is irrelevant because it's possible that they were moved from their original location to another place when OP pulled Reeva out of the toilet or when he carried her downstairs. And if four shots were fired through the toilet door - as the indictment say - there must been four cartridges in the bathroom, isn't it?

So, I have doubts the PT can prove that a first shot was fired in the bedroom resp. outside the bathroom.

With the new information for me, the indictment indicates:

* there was an argument.....

* Reeva screamed and fled into the toilet.....

* moments of silence.....

* then four gunshots - very quickly one after the other.....
- e.g. the first two in the hip and arm - Reeva screamed more
- e.g. the third missed her body and was found later in the toilet bowl
- e.g. the fourth (final) in her head

And the shot in the hip or in the head could caused another wound - at her hand/fingers if she tried to protect herself with her arms.
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Estelle said:

Pistorius teammates stand fast

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/pistorius-team-mates-stand-fast

Click to expand...

OP's Paralympic relay teammate Samkelo Radebe says:

“For most of us who actually know the kind of person he is, we still stand behind him and we still want to see him come back and run and do what he's well known for. And that's being a hero and changing people's lives.”

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Yes, your "hero" changed people's live. By him the live of a young and lovely woman ended abruptly and her family, relatives and friends now have to live on without her.

Great sportsmen you are, really, who support a guy who killed his allegedly "great love" by four gunshots through a closed door :notgood:
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MURDERER_SERVANT said:

Also their statments differ with OP's on the point who called who ? They said OP called Reeva
contraray to OP'S affi.

I had also felt a conradiction in Sam's affi.. She mentioned that Reeva told her she would marry her if he asked . And then she mentioned Reeva complained that OP was moving very fast in the relationship. If Reeva wanted to marry him , would't she be happy from his intense behavior and moving fast in the relationship?

Click to expand...

I totally agree with you

And don't forget: A relationship that existed less than three months - and Reeva wanted to marry OP.

Yes, of course - and I'm Santa Claus.... :floorlaugh:
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