NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10

Fireweed said:

I have some sympathy for Fred Murray, because I believe he is a very private person, and also very concerned over how his daughter is perceived. But I still do not know what he knows that would make him certain that Maura's past does not matter. He has even said that "we will never know why Maura came up here." Huh? Well if Maura is found alive, then we will know because we will ask her. Fred Murray says some very, very strange things which is one of the reasons so many people are now even more interested in Maura's past.

I do not know if everything sources say about Maura is true or not. But let's say that they are true. For example, some sources have claimed that Maura was cheating on Billy and that she had been with other men. Okay, this actually does not seem that far outside the range of normal for a woman her age who is likely outgrowing the boyfriend who everyone expects her to marry. So assuming this is true, then IMO, Maura's past may mean a great deal to help finding her. Did she have a secret boyfriend? Maybe she just took off with him somewhere.

If Fred Murray ever reads this then I have one suggestion for him: go through this board and see how desperately people want the Long Island serial killer case solved. His victims were drug-addicted prostitutes. Not one of those women had a "clean" past. That does not stop the public from wanting their killer brought to justice. However, the best way we can catch the killer is to reconstruct the last days of those women and figure out who or what brought them out to Giglo Beach. A murder victim's last moment does not exist in a vacuum; their encounter with the killer was the end result of a culmination of events. We are trying to do the same thing with Maura. It is not "prying" - it is simply the best way to solve a case like this. The only other way this case will get solved is through pure dumb luck. A good sleuth would never rely on that. I honestly have no idea how anyone who comes to a sleuthing board could sincerely believe that Maura's past does not matter. It may turn out it does not matter, but until this case is solved, her past is all we have to go by for solving this case.

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TexaninPA said:

Newbie here, but I've been lurking in this thread since last spring. Over Easter weekend, I binge-read all of the prior MM threads and just can't get this case out of my head. I don't have anything new to add, but I really appreciate all the thought and work that so many have put into this disappearance. I hope we'll learn what happened.

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Fireweed said:

I have read every single post on Renner's blog (the most popular Maura site) and I have not seen a single post saying that we should not search for Maura because she had a "drinking problem." I have been following this case for years and I have not seen a single person claim that Maura was a bad person who deserves to not be found because she may have been drunk at the time of the accident. I have not seen a single post where a person has wondered why Fred searches for his "worthless daughter." If Fred thinks that, then that is on him and not the public. In fact, I am convinced that your average member of the public is way more forgiving and understanding of Maura's behavior than her own father is.

99% of the posts I have read are people who are genuine about finding Maura. Of course people wonder if she was drunk, pregnant, had a secret boyfriend, etc...those would be part of the basics of investigating a missing person's case. It goes straight to Maura's state of mind when she disappeared, which, if we understood, could possibly crack the case wide up and lead to finding Maura.

I cannot believe that after the Cleveland case people still think that we are all being mean by asking these questions. There is a young woman out there who is missing. She might be chained up in some guy's basement somewhere! I am not going to stop asking the questions that need to be asked just because it might seem "insensitive." To hell with that, this poor woman deserves our very best efforts to find her. If it brings up some sensitive things from her past, then so be it. I would really hope that people would do the same for me.

I will say it right here: I have done drugs, had a drinking problem (am now sober), once had an affair with a married man, and when I was 13 I shoplifted a few times, oh and I got a fine for drinking underage in a national park when I was 17. I also had an eating disorder until I was 25. Can you believe it? I am not a perfect person. I am probably like most people in this world. I made some bad decisions and I made some mistakes. Yeah, so? Do only perfect people deserve justice?

Believe you me, if I ever go missing then I a pray to God that someone out there cares enough to dig this stuff up about me. It may lead to me being found. That is good enough for me. I hope someone finds out that I used to have a drinking problem. I hope they wonder if I relapsed (because I have before), and that they wonder if that is what caused me to make a poor decision (oh, it sure does!). Yup, I would rather be found or have a murderer brought to justice than to have those things about me kept secret.

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Fireweed said:

If he came to that conclusion then he has no solid evidence to prove it. Either that, or he has solid evidence and is not coming forward with it. Otherwise it is just a feeling he has and it is not proof that Maura died right away. Even if Fred has proof that Maura is dead, he himself apparently thinks it is a homicide, in which case sifting through her past might bring her killer to justice.

Look I feel badly for Fred. He is a father who has lost a daughter. If I were him, no, of course I would not want people looking into my daughter's private life, but I would much prefer to know what happened to my daughter than to have people not know that she once used someone else's credit card to order a pizza!

This is just one of the things that must be done when trying to find a missing person. It is sort of like conducting an autopsy on a murder victim. What if you were the parent of a victim of a sexual homicide? Of course you not want the coroner looking at your daughter's privates, but it would be necessary in order to more easily solve the crime. Same thing with a missing person's case. That person's last moments on this earth did not happen in a vacuum. Elizabeth Smart is alive and well because the people who had entered into her life before the abduction were carefully examined. Elizabeth Smart was a child who led a "sheltered" life, but that did not stop some creep from meeting up with her.

I firmly believe that Fred Murray is a very intelligent man. Thus, I do not think he sincerely believes Maura's past is "irrelevant." I think he wants this case to be solved without anyone poking into Maura's life and so he is hoping to convince everyone that her past does not matter when it comes to solving this case. Unless he knows something that I do not know, then there is no way that he knows one way or the other if Maura's past is relevant to finding her.

Anyway, I just find his attitude to be so totally bizarre. I have seen nothing about Maura's past that is just so terrible that it would be better off kept under wraps even if it means a smaller chance of finding Maura. If Maura were my daughter, I would have been knocking on the doors of local drug dealers, hoping they had information. I would be calling escort services to see if she worked for them. I would be hoping that she had some double life that I just did not know about after ten years of silence.

The best thing that could happen to the Murray family at this point is if online sleuths do uncover something big from Maura's past. It would be the best lead they'd ever gotten.

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Lolacat said:

I am completely new to this forum so forgive me if I reply in the wrong places etc..!

I have been fascinated by the Maura Murray case since I saw "miles to nowhere" on the ID channel. Then i stumbled across this website.

Here are some of my thoughts (coming from a person has experienced life as a 20 year old female and also as someone who has worked in acute psychiatry for the last decade).

Firstly, Maura's actions on the day she disappeared are key to solving this case in my opinion. I do not believe she planned to commit suicide. The reason for this is because despite what the media likes to tell us about people just *snapping*, it rarely ever happens. There are are always warning signs (often people are in denial and do not wish to acknowledge them but they are always there- even if highly subtle). Maura had no history of depression or self harm (as far as we know). We know she was a troubled young woman but she had expressed no suicidal ideation or wish to end her life permanently. In my mind, her trip into Bartlett was a *temporary escape* rather than a permanent one.If she were planning to kill herself she would not have packed up all her belongings and lied to her tutors about having a death in the family and needing a week off. These are not the actions of someone who plans to end their life permanently.

They are also not the actions of someone who is planning to permanently disappear. If I wanted to leave everything behind and create a brand new identity for myself - why on earth would I pack up my belongings and email tutors an excuse which *I* know everyone else will know is untrue. That immediately brings up red flags to those who know me, never mind the fact that I'll be easily findable due to the searches on my computer pin pointing the exact location that I am planning to abscond to. If you want to truly disappear into the ether you keep everything EXACTLY as it is and just go. No credit cards, no car, no drawing attention to yourself, no computer searches etc etc..

I believe Maura wanted a TEMPORARY escape. Everything had become too much to bear and she needed space and time to clear her head and plan her next move. She searched for places to stay in the VERY place she felt were safe and familiar- places she had been going to since she was a child. She got the tutors off her back for at least a week. She took school books, running kit and a lot of alcohol. People have argued that she took too much alcohol for a trip alone. For one night, sure. But for a week? that doesnt seem too much to me. Not if she planned to make white russians. I believe she was drinking red wine whilst driving (which also indicates this wasnt a clever, well thought out strategic plan to disappear). I think somewhere on that road her unreliable car started smoking and sputtering. She remembered her father's advice to stuff a rag in the tail pipe to stop the smoking (odd advice, but thats what Fred reported). She stuffed the rag in there and lo and behold, a couple of miles later the car stalled, veered out of control whilst she desperately tried to control it and it crashed.

She must have felt absolutely awful. She has crashed her car for the 2nd time whilst drinking. I imagine a combination of the alcohol and the fear of prosecution made her take the split second decision to run from the scene. She refused help from the bus driver, locked up the car, grabbed her back pack and ran. She could deal with it tomorrow when she had sobered up and it was light.

I believe she knew where she was headed- into bartlett for a place to stay. Noone randomly runs into the woods in the cold and the pitch black, no matter how brave they are. She was heading towards town and a place to stay. Now, this is where two possible endings play out:

1. She runs from the accident, whilst still slightly drunk and somewhere along the way she trips and falls and succumbs to the elements. OR

2. She runs from the accident, flags a passing vehicle and falls prey to a rapist/murderer. Now, many people have argued that the chances of meeting a serial killer in this small time frame are unlikely and I agree. But why does it have to be a serial killer? women get brutally raped all time (sadly), especially hanging around deserted areas at night. If you look at the statistics, women in their 20s are the most likely group to be sexually assaulted whilst hitchhiking. I think she was raped and possibly to silence her, then murdered.

Its a very sad case all around and I hope for her family's sake they find her.

Click to expand...

Lolacat said:

I am completely new to this forum so forgive me if I reply in the wrong places etc..!

I have been fascinated by the Maura Murray case since I saw "miles to nowhere" on the ID channel. Then i stumbled across this website.

Here are some of my thoughts (coming from a person has experienced life as a 20 year old female and also as someone who has worked in acute psychiatry for the last decade).

Firstly, Maura's actions on the day she disappeared are key to solving this case in my opinion. I do not believe she planned to commit suicide. The reason for this is because despite what the media likes to tell us about people just *snapping*, it rarely ever happens. There are are always warning signs (often people are in denial and do not wish to acknowledge them but they are always there- even if highly subtle). Maura had no history of depression or self harm (as far as we know). We know she was a troubled young woman but she had expressed no suicidal ideation or wish to end her life permanently. In my mind, her trip into Bartlett was a *temporary escape* rather than a permanent one.If she were planning to kill herself she would not have packed up all her belongings and lied to her tutors about having a death in the family and needing a week off. These are not the actions of someone who plans to end their life permanently.

They are also not the actions of someone who is planning to permanently disappear. If I wanted to leave everything behind and create a brand new identity for myself - why on earth would I pack up my belongings and email tutors an excuse which *I* know everyone else will know is untrue. That immediately brings up red flags to those who know me, never mind the fact that I'll be easily findable due to the searches on my computer pin pointing the exact location that I am planning to abscond to. If you want to truly disappear into the ether you keep everything EXACTLY as it is and just go. No credit cards, no car, no drawing attention to yourself, no computer searches etc etc..

I believe Maura wanted a TEMPORARY escape. Everything had become too much to bear and she needed space and time to clear her head and plan her next move. She searched for places to stay in the VERY place she felt were safe and familiar- places she had been going to since she was a child. She got the tutors off her back for at least a week. She took school books, running kit and a lot of alcohol. People have argued that she took too much alcohol for a trip alone. For one night, sure. But for a week? that doesnt seem too much to me. Not if she planned to make white russians. I believe she was drinking red wine whilst driving (which also indicates this wasnt a clever, well thought out strategic plan to disappear). I think somewhere on that road her unreliable car started smoking and sputtering. She remembered her father's advice to stuff a rag in the tail pipe to stop the smoking (odd advice, but thats what Fred reported). She stuffed the rag in there and lo and behold, a couple of miles later the car stalled, veered out of control whilst she desperately tried to control it and it crashed.

She must have felt absolutely awful. She has crashed her car for the 2nd time whilst drinking. I imagine a combination of the alcohol and the fear of prosecution made her take the split second decision to run from the scene. She refused help from the bus driver, locked up the car, grabbed her back pack and ran. She could deal with it tomorrow when she had sobered up and it was light.

I believe she knew where she was headed- into bartlett for a place to stay. Noone randomly runs into the woods in the cold and the pitch black, no matter how brave they are. She was heading towards town and a place to stay. Now, this is where two possible endings play out:

1. She runs from the accident, whilst still slightly drunk and somewhere along the way she trips and falls and succumbs to the elements. OR

2. She runs from the accident, flags a passing vehicle and falls prey to a rapist/murderer. Now, many people have argued that the chances of meeting a serial killer in this small time frame are unlikely and I agree. But why does it have to be a serial killer? women get brutally raped all time (sadly), especially hanging around deserted areas at night. If you look at the statistics, women in their 20s are the most likely group to be sexually assaulted whilst hitchhiking. I think she was raped and possibly to silence her, then murdered.

Its a very sad case all around and I hope for her family's sake they find her.

Click to expand...

Lolacat said:

I am completely new to this forum so forgive me if I reply in the wrong places etc..!

I have been fascinated by the Maura Murray case since I saw "miles to nowhere" on the ID channel. Then i stumbled across this website.

Here are some of my thoughts (coming from a person has experienced life as a 20 year old female and also as someone who has worked in acute psychiatry for the last decade).

Firstly, Maura's actions on the day she disappeared are key to solving this case in my opinion. I do not believe she planned to commit suicide. The reason for this is because despite what the media likes to tell us about people just *snapping*, it rarely ever happens. There are are always warning signs (often people are in denial and do not wish to acknowledge them but they are always there- even if highly subtle). Maura had no history of depression or self harm (as far as we know). We know she was a troubled young woman but she had expressed no suicidal ideation or wish to end her life permanently. In my mind, her trip into Bartlett was a *temporary escape* rather than a permanent one.If she were planning to kill herself she would not have packed up all her belongings and lied to her tutors about having a death in the family and needing a week off. These are not the actions of someone who plans to end their life permanently.

They are also not the actions of someone who is planning to permanently disappear. If I wanted to leave everything behind and create a brand new identity for myself - why on earth would I pack up my belongings and email tutors an excuse which *I* know everyone else will know is untrue. That immediately brings up red flags to those who know me, never mind the fact that I'll be easily findable due to the searches on my computer pin pointing the exact location that I am planning to abscond to. If you want to truly disappear into the ether you keep everything EXACTLY as it is and just go. No credit cards, no car, no drawing attention to yourself, no computer searches etc etc..

I believe Maura wanted a TEMPORARY escape. Everything had become too much to bear and she needed space and time to clear her head and plan her next move. She searched for places to stay in the VERY place she felt were safe and familiar- places she had been going to since she was a child. She got the tutors off her back for at least a week. She took school books, running kit and a lot of alcohol. People have argued that she took too much alcohol for a trip alone. For one night, sure. But for a week? that doesnt seem too much to me. Not if she planned to make white russians. I believe she was drinking red wine whilst driving (which also indicates this wasnt a clever, well thought out strategic plan to disappear). I think somewhere on that road her unreliable car started smoking and sputtering. She remembered her father's advice to stuff a rag in the tail pipe to stop the smoking (odd advice, but thats what Fred reported). She stuffed the rag in there and lo and behold, a couple of miles later the car stalled, veered out of control whilst she desperately tried to control it and it crashed.

She must have felt absolutely awful. She has crashed her car for the 2nd time whilst drinking. I imagine a combination of the alcohol and the fear of prosecution made her take the split second decision to run from the scene. She refused help from the bus driver, locked up the car, grabbed her back pack and ran. She could deal with it tomorrow when she had sobered up and it was light.

I believe she knew where she was headed- into bartlett for a place to stay. Noone randomly runs into the woods in the cold and the pitch black, no matter how brave they are. She was heading towards town and a place to stay. Now, this is where two possible endings play out:

1. She runs from the accident, whilst still slightly drunk and somewhere along the way she trips and falls and succumbs to the elements. OR

2. She runs from the accident, flags a passing vehicle and falls prey to a rapist/murderer. Now, many people have argued that the chances of meeting a serial killer in this small time frame are unlikely and I agree. But why does it have to be a serial killer? women get brutally raped all time (sadly), especially hanging around deserted areas at night. If you look at the statistics, women in their 20s are the most likely group to be sexually assaulted whilst hitchhiking. I think she was raped and possibly to silence her, then murdered.

Its a very sad case all around and I hope for her family's sake they find her.

Click to expand...