Trial Discussion Thread #26 - 14.04.15, Day 23

Cher352 said:

That pic Roux showed of the jeans right side out on the floor, is that suppose to be the same pair of jeans that Nel was show inside out????

If so is that something big.

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Yes, they are the same jeans.

I do not believe there is an issue. Van Staden testified that they documented the scene exactly as it was found, and then for all subsequent photos, they noted what was changed as they investigated and documented.

We know that they opened the duvet, after the initial photographs. That is not a surprise. I'm sure for the jeans, if there was blood spatter in the area, they examined both the inside and the outside.

I do not see this as an issue. The defense wants to keep saying that the scene was changed but there has been no hard evidence to prove that there were intentional changes made to mess up the scene.

I'm not saying that the police did a 100% bang up great job. I do think they made some missteps. But the majority of the testimony, coupled with the photos, has been pretty solid. IMO

jay-jay said:

Wow, OP just read out that Valentine's card with hardly any emotion in his voice Reeva said (shortened/not verbatim .. I need to go back and check exact words later) "today is a good day to tell you I love you"

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I don't see how this helped the defense.

OP already said he never told her that he loved her.

This creates the foundation for the source of the argument.

Reeva was tired of the whiny, self-centered manipulative boy that we've been watching and decided to leave.

https://twitter.com/AlexCrawfordSky #OscarPistorius The Pistorius family is expecting a forensic geologist to give evidence next

sleuth-d- said:

lovely valentine sentiment from reeva.

and the card from op to her said? nothing

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Certainly seems that way, doesn't it!

Oh but hang on .. he was probably going to go out and buy that card at the same time he was going to take Reeva to the jewellers to choose the charms for her bracelet :facepalm:

The Valentine Day's card was rather poignant ... the very day she declared her love for Oscar was the very day she died by the hands of Oscar.

Val1 said:

Did anyone see it? Sounds like a regular bought valentine's day card to me... with a signature.

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it was my impression that op was asked to read out just the words that rs had written. i.e. on the envelope first, and then on the inside the card.

benn25 said:

the denim photo that Roux pulled out looks completely different from the one Nel was using. Not only turned out the right way out but infact it was in a completely different place. Bit strange.

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That has happened with other photos where a different angle has looked as though objects are in a different place. Nel showed one of his was correct due to the blood drips on the duvet trailed over onto the carpet, so position had to be correct.

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman 2 mins
#OscarTrial Pistorius was being comforted by Aimee and another man when Roux approached, ushered them away and had a stern chat… BB

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman 3 mins
#OscarTrial I think Roux was chatting to Pistorius about him interrupting the judge when she was addressing counsel about the door frame. BB

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman 3m
#OscarTrial when Masipa was asking counsel those questions, it wasn’t for the witness to “if I might add…” BB

LOL

Freya1977 said:

Oh god more waiting grrr

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I'd rather be in "wait mode" than to be subjected to another minute of listening to Oscar's pitiful whiny voice. I had totally reached my limit.

Not just this trial but I admit I have very little patience with whining and folks who insist on feeling sorry for themselves for weeks on end. I've never tolerated it well. Nothing positive ever comes of it.

benn25 said:

the denim photo that Roux pulled out looks completely different from the one Nel was using. Not only turned out the right way out but infact it was in a completely different place. Bit strange.

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yes, the duvet looked huge in the space... it looked more like the mattress...

lisasalinger said:

Nel started today's cross-examination by saying that the focus of his questions would be to prove that Oscar's story is "so improbable that it cannot be reasonably possibly true"

I believe quite firmly that he has done that.

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I think Nels did a good job overall.

However, I thought the cross was a bit short overall.

He went into quite minute detail for a few issues which were not as important and I thought he missed some very important questions.

A few examples:

1. After shooting through the locked door, you came into the bedroom looking for Reeva.

You testified that you felt on the bed and next to the bed.

Why didn't you simply turn on the light?

He started to ask that question yesterday and stopped.

2. Where does Reeva normally keep her mobile?

Is it not reasonable to suggest that Reeva would not sleep with her mobile on her?

As such, would it be reasonable to infer that the mobile was kept on the right desktop?

If so, Reeva must have reached over to the right to retrieve her mobile and use it for light.

Are you saying you didn't see this?

3. You said you feared for your life?

After shooting through the door, how could you be sure the intruder was dead?

Why didn't you immediately check the toilet?

<this establishes that the door was locked straight away>

You were so scared about this intruder but did not even check if they were still a danger?

4. Also he should have taken apart OP's story based simply on the empty bladder. He started talking about it and stopped.

OP's version is she opened the window and went to the toilet.

Ask questions like: Does Reeva normally close the door when she goes to the toilet?

If so, she would not have slammed the door when you shouted (as the door would have already been shut).

Did he hear any flushing?

There was blood in the toilet, was there any urine?

How many minutes between hearing the window open was it before you screamed? <surely no more than 1 to 2 minutes>
Etc. etc.

benn25 said:

the denim photo that Roux pulled out looks completely different from the one Nel was using. Not only turned out the right way out but infact it was in a completely different place. Bit strange.

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That pic confuses me too. Was Roux implying that was the same pair jeans?

Roux didn't go into what he was trying to do by showing the picture...maybe another witness will??

james83 said:

Barry Bateman &#8207;@barrybateman 2 mins
#OscarTrial Pistorius was being comforted by Aimee and another man when Roux approached, ushered them away and had a stern chat… BB

Barry Bateman &#8207;@barrybateman 3 mins
#OscarTrial I think Roux was chatting to Pistorius about him interrupting the judge when she was addressing counsel about the door frame. BB

Barry Bateman &#8207;@barrybateman 3m
#OscarTrial when Masipa was asking counsel those questions, it wasn’t for the witness to “if I might add…” BB

LOL

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BBM

I could feel the steam coming out of Roux when he did that.

Oscar is unreal.

Roux can forget client control because Oscar thinks he knows everything.

lisasalinger said:

Yes, they are the same jeans.

I do not believe there is an issue. Van Staden testified that they documented the scene exactly as it was found, and then for all subsequent photos, they noted what was changed as they investigated and documented.

We know that they opened the duvet, after the initial photographs. That is not a surprise. I'm sure for the jeans, if there was blood spatter in the area, they examined both the inside and the outside.

I do not see this as an issue. The defense wants to keep saying that the scene was changed but there has been no hard evidence to prove that there were intentional changes made to mess up the scene.

I'm not saying that the police did a 100% bang up great job. I do think they made some missteps. But the majority of the testimony, coupled with the photos, has been pretty solid. IMO

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Absolutely .. Roux keeps doing this, deliberately confusing the different sets of crime scene photos in order to make it look like the police contaminated the crime scene .. but anyone with half a brain will know that the first set of photos were taken exactly as the crime scene was left and then subsequent photos need to be taken of individual items, and certain things have to be moved in order to take those photos.

I wonder if Pistorius may have contradicted some of his own Expert witness's finding's before they have said a word.

james83 said:

Barry Bateman &#8207;@barrybateman 2 mins
#OscarTrial Pistorius was being comforted by Aimee and another man when Roux approached, ushered them away and had a stern chat… BB

Barry Bateman &#8207;@barrybateman 3 mins
#OscarTrial I think Roux was chatting to Pistorius about him interrupting the judge when she was addressing counsel about the door frame. BB

Click to expand...

OP complaining to the judge that even the replica of his toilet door has been doctored and tampered .

Forensics said:

The Valentine Day's card was rather poignant ... the very day she declared her love for Oscar was the very day she died by the hands of Oscar.

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.. and he didn't even get choked up when reading it out to the court. Amazing.

asanque said:

Roux realised OP was a terrible witness and wanted to get him off as quickly as possible.

He will rely on his experts to undo as much damage as possible.

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IMO Roux knows he can't reign him in and has the mindset that he can do better than his own counsel. No point in digging his grave even deeper so best get him off ASAP .

beach said:

BBM

I could feel the steam coming out of Roux when he did that.

Oscar is unreal.

Roux can forget client control because Oscar thinks he knows everything.

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When OP gets sent to prison he's going to have the **** beat out of him every day.

nastasya said:

I don't see how this helped the defense.

OP already said he never told her that he loved her.

This creates the foundation for the source of the argument.

Reeva was tired of the whiny, self-centered manipulative boy that we've been watching and decided to leave.

Click to expand...

I'm presuming the DT were grasping at straws there, trying to paint a picture of an idyllic Valetine's Day Eve .. only problem is that that card from Reeva, and no reciprocal card from OP speaks volumes and only goes to reinforce what many of us have been saying about an argument that night.