JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon

redheadedgal said:

tricia was in the forum earlier... maybe she thought the other thread mimicked what we were discussing in here and merged them?

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Well you know, red, I think the Mods are working for the good of WS.

*** remember what she said: just ignore posts you need to ***

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Someone emailed me and said there might be some confusion about the "size" of JonBenet's head wound. The word "wound" could be the source of the confusion. Wound usually refers to damage done that is visible on the surface, unless it is described as a "closed wound" (intuitively obvious that this is as opposed to an "open wound"). Dr. Meyer made no note of any damage to JonBenet's scalp before he had peeled it away from her skull during the autopsy. Until then, no one but the person who caused it knew about the head blow. But once discovered, he described the evidence of damage in each of the layers between the subsurface of the scalp to the grey matter of the brain. Nearly every layer had some sign of damage. Each layer of bleeding is the result of a different source of blood, and therefore, had different measurements from the others. But perhaps the most important measurement (IMO), at least as far as determining what caused the damage, is the depressed fracture with comminuted bone fragments. Determining that was the original purpose of this thread. No one has to agree with me about it, and knowing what caused this is not necessarily proof of who was responsible for it. But if you are new to the discussion here, I would encourage you to go back to the beginning and read through what has already been posted. And one helpful (I think) post to start out with to understand exactly what the AR says is [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9054790#post9054790"]here[/ame], where I tried (with my limited knowledge) to break down in simple terms what was written in the AR.

I went looking in every photo I could find for something in the oval shape that could have been used and in a picture of the spiral stair case I came across a brass giraffe set. They are behind dog food bowls.

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-crime-photos.htm The photo is numbered 52

I notice the photo which shows the image of the wound on the exposed skull and I do think the wound could match up.


WARNING GRAPHIC and very sad.

http://jonnieb7.tripod.com/JonBenet.html

midwest mama said:

I think Patsy had begun to realize that JB's vaginal problems were beyond what might have occurred from interaction with Burke or other young boys. It's possible even Beuf had asked her some questions that made her suspicious of JR, but she hadn't made the complete correlation, and even might have discounted that possibility to Beuf.

The holiday season was too complex to allow Patsy to pay close attention to what was going on with JB:

The late November trip to NY with other moms and daughters.
Thanksgiving weeked pageant in Georgia for JonBenet
Little Miss Colorado parade Dec 6
NYC trip with the Steins
Dec 13th Foyer Party at the Ramseys
The annual holiday tour of the R's house.
JB's Little Miss Colorado pageant at the mall, Dec 17thready.
JAR left for Georgia
Access Graphics Bill Dollar party, Dec 20
JB performed at school "Rock around the clock" Dec 20
Dec 22, JB's last public performance at Mall Christmas show
Dec 22, Patsy made arrangements for Charlevoix home decor
The party at their home on the 23rd.
Grandpa Paugh took stand-by flight on 24th.
Getting ready for the Disney Trip (suitcases and clothing in photos)
Christmas gifts to wrap and get ready for their kids.
Their own Christmas Day, then JR gone during the afternoon.
Party with the White's on Christmas evening.

RSBM

Click to expand...

Tweaking the timeline...

Nov trip to NY with other moms and daughters. JBR saw Grease! Size 12s are purchased at Bloomingdale's.
Nov Thanksgiving weekend pageant in Rome, Georgia; white burial dress is purchased
Su Dec 1 Access Graphics Christmas Party
F Dec 6 Little Miss Colorado parade; Santa bear gift; grandparents keep children
Sa Dec 7 Day trip to NYC trip with the Steins ?
F Dec 13 Foyer Party at the Ramseys
x Dec The annual holiday tour of the R's house ?
M Dec 17 Little Miss Colorado pageant at the mall; Patsy calls Dr. Beuf 3 times
T Dec 18
W Dec 19 JAR arrived in Georgia
Th Dec 20 Access Graphics Billion Dollar luncheon
F Dec 20 JB performed at her school "Rock around the clock" all day
Sa Dec 22 JB's last public performance at Mall Christmas show
Su Dec 22 Patsy made arrangements for Charlevoix home decor
M Dec 23 Ramsey Christmas party. Gold ID bracelet is given to JBR. 911 called in error.
T Dec 24 Grandpa Paugh took stand-by flight.
T Dec 24 R family attends mass. Dine at Jay's Pasta.
W Dec 25 Toys and gifts for R children. JBR stays indoors until late in afternoon. Packing for the Disney Trip; Christmas gifts to wrap for the kids. PR dyes hair. JR gone during the afternoon to airport for four hours. Round trip is 80 minutes.
W Dec 25 Party with the White's on Christmas evening 4 - 8:30
W Dec 25 Deliver gifts; arrive home around 9:00
Th Dec 26 Patsy calls 911 to report a kidnapping

DeDee said:

Tweaking the timeline...

Nov trip to NY with other moms and daughters. JBR saw Grease! Size 12s are purchased at Bloomingdale's.
Nov Thanksgiving weekend pageant in Rome, Georgia; white burial dress is purchased
Su Dec 1 Access Graphics Christmas Party
F Dec 6 Little Miss Colorado parade; Santa bear gift; grandparents keep children
Sa Dec 7 Day trip to NYC trip with the Steins ?
F Dec 13 Foyer Party at the Ramseys
x Dec The annual holiday tour of the R's house ?
M Dec 17 Little Miss Colorado pageant at the mall; Patsy calls Dr. Beuf 3 times
T Dec 18
W Dec 19 JAR arrived in Georgia
Th Dec 20 Access Graphics Billion Dollar luncheon
F Dec 20 JB performed at her school "Rock around the clock" all day
Sa Dec 22 JB's last public performance at Mall Christmas show
Su Dec 22 Patsy made arrangements for Charlevoix home decor
M Dec 23 Ramsey Christmas party. Gold ID bracelet is given to JBR. 911 called in error.
T Dec 24 Grandpa Paugh took stand-by flight.
T Dec 24 R family attends mass. Dine at Jay's Pasta.
W Dec 25 Toys and gifts for R children. JBR stays indoors until late in afternoon. Packing for the Disney Trip; Christmas gifts to wrap for the kids. PR dyes hair. JR gone during the afternoon to airport for four hours. Round trip is 80 minutes.
W Dec 25 Party with the White's on Christmas evening 4 - 8:30
W Dec 25 Deliver gifts; arrive home around 9:00
Th Dec 26 Patsy calls 911 to report a kidnapping

Click to expand...

Great timeline. None of it points to guilt of a serious crime.

(Moved response to correct thread -- I think. :waitasec: )

DeDee said:

Not the Maglite. Not the putter. Not the weight laying on her bdrm floor. Not the pipe over the WC door. But an item 3/4"w. Correct. That would create an oval shape divot. Or more specifically, an Ovoid.

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Correct, DeDee. That's my opinion at this time. But as gramcracker :seeya: often says... : "YMMV."

Long ago, I read the basement phone was not connected to service.

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I don't recall that, but if it can be confirmed, it would certainly end my belief that the call was made from there.

Casting that aside, why would Patsy want to dial 911 from the basement if she found the RN on the stairway?

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(bbm) Indeed, DD, and that's the big if. That would be assuming she "found" it on the spiral staircase.

If she did dial from the basement, and that is BRs voice on the 911 tape, then he was in the basement, too. All three of them were in the basement during the 911 call.

Click to expand...

Exactly! If police could have established that the call was made from the basement, and all three Ramsey voices are heard on the call, it would have blown the whole investigation out of the water.

I dunno, otg.

OMO

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Obviously, none of us do. But that seems most likely to me because of the improbability of the circumstances around Patsy not hanging up the receiver on a wall phone as opposed to one lying flat on a table. It bugs the helloutta me that investigators didn't see the significance of this. But then, most posters on either side of the proverbial fence agree that there were many lost opportunities and mistakes made by investigators.

otg said:

(Moved response to correct thread -- I think. :waitasec: )
Correct, DeDee. That's my opinion at this time. But as gramcracker :seeya: often says... : "YMMV."


I don't recall that, but if it can be confirmed, it would certainly end my belief that the call was made from there.


(bbm) Indeed, DD, and that's the big if. That would be assuming she "found" it on the spiral staircase.


Exactly! If police could have established that the call was made from the basement, and all three Ramsey voices are heard on the call, it would have blown the whole investigation out of the water.


Obviously, none of us do. But that seems most likely to me because of the improbability of the circumstances around Patsy not hanging up the receiver on a wall phone as opposed to one lying flat on a table. It bugs the helloutta me that investigators didn't see the significance of this. But then, most posters on either side of the proverbial fence agree that there were many lost opportunities and mistakes made by investigators.

Click to expand...

Some great points. I did recently just read one of your other posts (I think it was you) mentioning your belief that the call was made from the basement. It makes a lot of sense to me. But regarding the above BBM, are you saying the kitchen phone was a wall phone and the basement was a desk top model?

If that is true, then I share your frustration as the desk type model is easier to inadvertently replace incorrectly. And oh boy, putting all 3 in the basement at that time would have really caused problems!

bettybaby00 said:

Some great points. I did recently just read one of your other posts (I think it was you) mentioning your belief that the call was made from the basement. It makes a lot of sense to me. But regarding the above BBM, are you saying the kitchen phone was a wall phone and the basement was a desk top model?

If that is true, then I share your frustration as the desk type model is easier to inadvertently replace incorrectly. And oh boy, putting all 3 in the basement at that time would have really caused problems!

Click to expand...

Hi, bb. Attached are pictures of the two phones, and a third picture showing the laundry room with the cord of the basement phone visible at the bottom right of the photo.

(PS: Judging by the condition of the rooms, I'd guess these were all taken after the Ramseys had moved out.)

otg said:

Hi, bb. Attached are pictures of the two phones, and a third picture showing the laundry room with the cord of the basement phone visible at the bottom right of the photo.

(PS: Judging by the condition of the rooms, I'd guess these were all taken after the Ramseys had moved out.)

Click to expand...

all look to be multi-line speakerphones.

Some here may recall last year when I had tried to figure out the shape and size of the object that caused the fractures to JonBenet’s skull in this thread. If you do, you might remember that I had shown why I came to the conclusion that the object was a cylinder whose diameter was between 1/2” and 1”. If that conclusion is correct, it would eliminate the three items that are most commonly believed to be the weapon (a golf club, the Maglite, and one of the two bats found). Because of a picture taken in the basement showing that a new water heater had been installed recently and that there was new and old associated piping in the area, I think the weapon was a short section of leftover pipe -- something the investigators didn’t think to look for. If you don’t remember all this (or weren’t here at WS then), you might want to review some of the discussions on this thread, or my numbered posts showing how arrived at this conclusion. Essentially though it ended with my belief that the weapon used was probably overlooked by investigators because they didn’t know the shape of what was used, and we couldn’t see it in the photos that were available to us.

Last week someone posted a screen capture (which I saved to my files) from a TV program showing the same area of the boiler room taken from a slightly different angle. (Sorry I don’t remember who posted it -- I couldn’t find it when I went back looking for it.) I don’t know exactly when the photo was taken in relation to December 26, 1996, so maybe someone can help figure that out. Here is what I think (because of its number) was the one of the first photos of the area taken by BPD (notice the stacked window screens/frames in the bottom left corner of the photo):


The following photo was taken some time after the previous one, and the stacked window screens/frames have been removed from the area. In it, along the bottom you can also see the top of a 5-gallon pail that was probably used during the plumbing repair and installation of the new water heater.




This photo was taken from a slightly different angle showing all the way back to the corner of the boiler room:



The following screen capture was made from a program on NBC. It looks like it might have been from a video, but I don’t know anything about it. Take a look at it and see if you don’t see the same thing I see leaning up against the wall to the side of the freezer shown in the bottom left of the photo:




Here it is with a red circle around it:




My questions would be:

1. Is that a section of iron pipe left over from the water heater installation/repair?
2. When was it placed there?
3. If it was moved there by the CSIs, where was it before?
4. Was it in that location when the other photos were taken and it simply wasn’t seen?
5. Did the police completely overlook it when they were searching for a weapon?
6. If it was taken into evidence, did they check it for fingerprints, fiber evidence, DNA?

I don’t think they even considered this. If they had, it should have been listed as collected evidence on the search warrants. Here is a list of what they did take into evidence when they went back (after the autopsy revealed the head wound) looking for what might have been possibly used as a bludgeon:

• Black sheet metal from wine cellar (39KKY)
• baseball bat (3GLI)
• golf clubs (4GLI)
• red clay brick (48BAB)
• baseball bat (74BAB)
• hammer (6BAH)
• flashlight (20JRB)
• golf club (79BAH)
• (BLACKED OUT ITEMs)

I think they should have been looking for a short section of pipe with an outside diameter of 1/2” to 1”. I also think that may be shown it in that last photo.

otg said:

Some here may recall last year when I had tried to figure out the shape and size of the object that caused the fractures to JonBenet’s skull in this thread. If you do, you might remember that I had shown why I came to the conclusion that the object was a cylinder whose diameter was between 1/2” and 1”. If that conclusion is correct, it would eliminate the three items that are most commonly believed to be the weapon (a golf club, the Maglite, and one of the two bats found). Because of a picture taken in the basement showing that a new water heater had been installed recently and that there was new and old associated piping in the area, I think the weapon was a short section of leftover pipe -- something the investigators didn’t think to look for. If you don’t remember all this (or weren’t here at WS then), you might want to review some of the discussions on this thread, or my numbered posts showing how arrived at this conclusion. Essentially though it ended with my belief that the weapon used was probably overlooked by investigators because they didn’t know the shape of what was used, and we couldn’t see it in the photos that were available to us.

Last week someone posted a screen capture (which I saved to my files) from a TV program showing the same area of the boiler room taken from a slightly different angle. (Sorry I don’t remember who posted it -- I couldn’t find it when I went back looking for it.) I don’t know exactly when the photo was taken in relation to December 26, 1996, so maybe someone can help figure that out. Here is what I think (because of its number) was the one of the first photos of the area taken by BPD (notice the stacked window screens/frames in the bottom left corner of the photo):

​

The following photo was taken some time after the previous one, and the stacked window screens/frames have been removed from the area. In it, along the bottom you can also see the top of a 5-gallon pail that was probably used during the plumbing repair and installation of the new water heater.

​

This photo was taken from a slightly different angle showing all the way back to the corner of the boiler room:

​

The following screen capture was made from a program on NBC. It looks like it might have been from a video, but I don’t know anything about it. Take a look at it and see if you don’t see the same thing I see leaning up against the wall to the side of the freezer shown in the bottom left of the photo:

​

Here it is with a red circle around it:

​

My questions would be:

1. Is that a section of iron pipe left over from the water heater installation/repair?
2. When was it placed there?
3. If it was moved there by the CSIs, where was it before?
4. Was it in that location when the other photos were taken and it simply wasn’t seen?
5. Did the police completely overlook it when they were searching for a weapon?
6. If it was taken into evidence, did they check it for fingerprints, fiber evidence, DNA?

I don’t think they even considered this. If they had, it should have been listed as collected evidence on the search warrants. Here is a list of what they did take into evidence when they went back (after the autopsy revealed the head wound) looking for what might have been possibly used as a bludgeon:

• Black sheet metal from wine cellar (39KKY)
• baseball bat (3GLI)
• golf clubs (4GLI)
• red clay brick (48BAB)
• baseball bat (74BAB)
• hammer (6BAH)
• flashlight (20JRB)
• golf club (79BAH)
• (BLACKED OUT ITEMs)

I think they should have been looking for a short section of pipe with an outside diameter of 1/2” to 1”. I also think that may be shown it in that last photo.

Click to expand...

Hmmm interesting. Would that sort of pipe have enough weight to cause the type of skull fracture she sustained? Is the post you referenced outlining your "object was 1"-1 1/2" diameter theory posted in this thread?

In your list of evidence, do we know how many items are blacked out?

And lastly, why is that many of the documents that have been posted online contain "blacked out" sections?

Is it possible, in this case, that it contains information they know is relevant to the crime?

Just thinking . . .

Well, the red circled pipe looks to be the same diameter as the black pipe running from the water heater control apparatus, below on the water heater. It looks like iron vs. copper which plumbers sometimes/frequently use.

I’ve never heard of the investigators inquiring about leftover pipes. (Though there is a dialogue between Trip Demuth, Tom Haney and PR in June 1998 about a tool. PR doesn’t seem sure of what tool he may be talking about in photo 74 and 75.) Another oddity – they are discussing this particular item in the laundry room. In the crime scene photo attached to OTG’s post, this is definitely the boiler room.

TOM HANEY: Seventy-four.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Burke's train set up. The
20 washer and the dryer in the basement.
21 TOM HANEY: Seventy-five.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Seventy-five, where I wrapped
23 Christmas.
24 TRIP DEMUTH: The laundry room?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: The laundry room.
0356
1 TOM HANEY: You would wrap them there and
2 store them in the wine cellar?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Right, or if we were going out
4 of town.
5 TRIP DEMUTH: I want to make sure, talking
6 about 74 and 75.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). I don't know
8 what that thing is.
9 TRIP DEMUTH: One of the tools you use on
10 sprinkler systems?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
12 TRIP DEMUTH: That is in photo 75, and you
13 are pointing at the long rod type of object to the left
14 of the washer and dryer. Okay.

I do adore a curious mind that can think as well as display independent reasoning skills within a post that shows both talents.

Every window must have been missing its screen because they are scattered all around in the basement. Proper attention must be given to this new clue of the lead pipe in the basement.




bettybaby has raised a strong point about the proper value to place on the redacted items. LE did not reveal the actual RN for 9 months. We still do not know what the SWs took in Charlevoix. Yes? Didn't LE attempt to keep the color of the masking tape secreted from the public arena, too? I place high importance on redacted entries.

questfortrue said:

Just thinking . . .

Well, the red circled pipe looks to be the same diameter as the black pipe running from the water heater control apparatus, below on the water heater. It looks like iron vs. copper which plumbers sometimes/frequently use.

I’ve never heard of the investigators inquiring about leftover pipes. (Though there is a dialogue between Trip Demuth, Tom Haney and PR in June 1998 about a tool. PR doesn’t seem sure of what tool he may be talking about in photo 74 and 75.) Another oddity – they are discussing this particular item in the laundry room. In the crime scene photo attached to OTG’s post, this is definitely the boiler room.

TOM HANEY: Seventy-four.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Burke's train set up. The
20 washer and the dryer in the basement.
21 TOM HANEY: Seventy-five.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Seventy-five, where I wrapped
23 Christmas.
24 TRIP DEMUTH: The laundry room?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: The laundry room.
0356
1 TOM HANEY: You would wrap them there and
2 store them in the wine cellar?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Right, or if we were going out
4 of town.
5 TRIP DEMUTH: I want to make sure, talking
6 about 74 and 75.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). I don't know
8 what that thing is.
9 TRIP DEMUTH: One of the tools you use on
10 sprinkler systems?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
12 TRIP DEMUTH: That is in photo 75, and you
13 are pointing at the long rod type of object to the left
14 of the washer and dryer. Okay.

Click to expand...

Well a quick google search of "sprinkler system tools" with an eye toward " long rod type object" led me to this...



Its a "sprinkler valve key"

Whatever that means. I know I have 2 or 3 boxes in my lawn that contain sprinkler controls, I'm guessing that is where something like this would be used??


I can't get much in the way of detail, but it's interesting to note that it certainly is a "pipe-like" object. made of heavy duty steel, and ranges in length from 30" to 58".

:dunno:

Heyya otg,

Ya it's black iron pipe?

http://www.lowes.ca/black-iron-pipe_15015.html

It's sold in set lengths.

Tadpole12 said:

Heyya otg,

Ya it's black iron pipe?

http://www.lowes.ca/black-iron-pipe_15015.html

It's sold in set lengths.

Click to expand...

And in 1 inch diameter.

I've always mean to ask and the latest transcription reminded me.

Why the heck are there so many instances of "inaudible" in the transcripts????

bettybaby00 said:

Hmmm interesting. Would that sort of pipe have enough weight to cause the type of skull fracture she sustained?

Click to expand...

Absolutely! The often quoted statement that it was “enough of a blow to bring down a 300 lb. linebacker” is misleading. Yeah, it might; but it was certainly (and obviously) enough to cause a depressed fracture and a linear fracture the length of the crown of her skull. So it doesn’t matter what it would do to a football player. A six-year-old child’s skull is not fully developed and is much thinner than an adult’s. It’s also not completely ossified, and the diploic layer hasn’t completely formed within the tables of the skull.

Is the post you referenced outlining your "object was 1"-1 1/2" diameter theory posted in this thread?

Click to expand...

Slight correction: the cylindrical object was between 1/2” and 1”. I arrived at that by calculating the intersection of a cylinder with a sphere (with a lot of help from the math geeks at http://www.mathisfunforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=19141). I used a 6-1/2” diameter sphere to represent a child’s skull, and the answer was a cylinder diameter of 0.67”. Depending on the curvature in the exact location of the depressed fracture, that diameter might vary. So until I could do more experiments, I decided to look for something between 0.5” and 1.0” in diameter. All this was in Part-8 of the following list of posts in this thread:

Part-1: I believe the depressed fracture is a fingerprint of the weapon that caused it.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8660347&postcount=2"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon[/ame]


Part-2: Understanding a little about the scalp.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8660364&postcount=3"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon[/ame]


Part-3: Changing direction on the weapon.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8660366&postcount=4"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon[/ame]


Part-4: Defining the shape of the hole (and trying to remember my geometry).
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8660370&postcount=5"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon[/ame]


Part-5: Finding the right model... and demonstrations.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8916670&postcount=213"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon[/ame]


Part-6: The linear fracture.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8937833&postcount=221"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon[/ame]


Part-7: Geometry.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9524713&postcount=343"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon[/ame]


Part-8: Algebra.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9524807&postcount=344"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon[/ame]


Part-9: Accessibility of the Weapon.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9541573&postcount=398"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon[/ame]

In your list of evidence, do we know how many items are blacked out?

Click to expand...

I don’t remember how many in total, and I don’t know that any of them were related to the weapon. I simply looked over the published lists for anything that might have been used as a bludgeon.

And lastly, why is that many of the documents that have been posted online contain "blacked out" sections?

Click to expand...

Because they tried to keep some things from the public so someone like Karr wouldn’t know all the details. That’s something investigators almost always try to do. They fought to keep the AR secret. When it was first made public, it had six sections that were redacted. Eventually even those sections were made public.

BTW, when the full AR was first released, an enterprising reporter who worked for Associated Press marked the sections that had been previously redacted. I don’t have a copy of the redacted version, but the AP reporter’s notes on the new sections and highlighted phrases are still available here:
http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_national/jonbenet_ramsey/jonbenet_ramsey_autopsy.pdf

Is it possible, in this case, that it contains information they know is relevant to the crime?

Click to expand...

I’d say it’s not only possible, but probable.

bettybaby00 said:

Well a quick google search of "sprinkler system tools" with an eye toward " long rod type object" led me to this...

Its a "sprinkler valve key"

Whatever that means. I know I have 2 or 3 boxes in my lawn that contain sprinkler controls, I'm guessing that is where something like this would be used??


I can't get much in the way of detail, but it's interesting to note that it certainly is a "pipe-like" object. made of heavy duty steel, and ranges in length from 30" to 58".

:dunno:

Click to expand...

That's a "valve shut-off key". The water supply line is underground on a sprinkler system, and the valve will have a pipe over it going to the ground level (a "riser") that's large enough to allow the valve key access. The valve that shuts off the water supply looks like this:


The shut-off key fits over the top, and it only takes a quarter-turn to shut it off or turn it on. This is the same type of shut-off valve that is inside most water meter boxes in our front yards.

:angelNot that we should expect men to know more than women about such things.)

Tadpole12 said:

Heyya otg,

Ya it's black iron pipe?

http://www.lowes.ca/black-iron-pipe_15015.html

It's sold in set lengths.

Click to expand...

Hey, Tad. It could be black iron (or galvanized) if it was intended for water or gas service. Plumbers usually have 20' lengths for long runs of pipe and for cutting exact or odd lengths as needed. Short sections pre-cut to common lengths and threaded on both ends are called "nipples".

The "size" (diameter) of pipe is not the actual measured outside diameter. A 1/2" (standard schedule) pipe is actually 0.84" outside diameter:
http://www.heatinghelp.com/images/posts/6057/resize_Pipe Sizing Chart.jpg

(The explanation for why this is is more complicated than it's worth going into, but basically the 1/2" designation is closer to the inside diameter.)