GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #4

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JeannaT said:
What if, instead of going home where you would obviously miss your baby within moments, you were at work where you wouldn't be thinking where is my baby? It was great that your episode happened when you were home - you'd be checking on your baby all the time there, and so of course in a matter of minutes you knew he was in the car. Thank goodness.

I've been thinking about other things that people do absentmindedly. My son used to work at a restaurant take out window. It was amazing to him how many people would drive away after they paid and got their credit card and receipt handed back to them, BUT NOT THEIR FOOD. Some returned in minutes, some never leading me to believe they got so far away that it wasn't worth going back for the food by the time it occurred to them they didn't have it. Many gas stations have now made their gas nozzles easily able to snap off so when people finish filling up their cars and they DRIVE OFF with the nozzle still stuck in their gas tank it doesn't do major structural damage. How many times have I gone to the grocery store to get ONE particular necessary item and returned with 3 or 4 things I didn't need but not the one thing I need right now. I've had friends expected to come for a gathering that night and they were supposed to bring a covered dish - and they created the covered dish in the afternoon and then FORGOT to go to the event. They get a call and they say OHHH I completely forgot - be there in 10.
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All of that is true. But I think that is all apples and oranges when it comes to babies. You are not responsible for keeping your bag of take-out ALIVE and well. You do not have a parental bond with your cheeseburgers. So it is easy to forget if they are there or not.

But when I had my baby with me in the car, I took it upon myself to be aware of their status. Are they breathing, choking, sleeping, crying, happy, having a bad day or a good day...etc etc

When you have your baby in the car you are responsible for their safety. So it boggles my mind that he could have strapped the child into the car seat, and 1 minute later, forgot to take the correct exit to the day car. How does that happen?
 
sorrell skye said:
BBM

I don't think "death by hot car is acceptable, excusable, not criminal".

Nor do I think that posters here who are offering another viewpoint on this tragic case believe that "death by hot car is acceptable, excusable, not criminal".

IMO, I don't believe little Cooper's death was an accident, based on the currently available information. However, I respect the opinions and comments of everyone who may need more information before reaching a conclusion, including everyone who may at this point believe it was a terrible accident, because differing opinions & viewpoints help to inform me and help me to look at the case from a perspective other than my own.
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Even with my oops when Niklet was little and another time (I may talk about later((not remotely related to this)), with current information, I do NOT believe this particular case was accidental. I don't know if it was just Dad, or if Mom might be involved as well. I still think it wasn't accidental.

I was just trying to pose another scenario where sometimes, accidents or slips of mind or brain farts happen.
 
popsicle said:
Do you realize how early in the investigation it is? They are just getting into the data on all the computers and phones etc jmo
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Yes, I do realize it's extremely early - so I'm surprised on two fronts:

1. They announced virtually immediately that this was a horrific crime that shocked the dad and grandpa hearts in the investigator;

2. Then after a few days in the investigation they downgraded the charges to then reflect the act was committed without intent, but with negligence;

I am surprised at both the fact that the cop was so candid in stating that this was a heinous crime, and the fact that they went ahead and charged him before the autopsy was returned. Additionally, he has been held on no bail since the evening of the event.

There's almost nothing in this case, from the standpoint of LE and the court's reactions . .. that doesn't seem . . . very unusually handled.
 
x_files said:
Be careful I could totally see him taking over this case, and create a three ring circus yet again. I am glad it's in Georgia not Florida though.
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Which is strange since almost all nutty cases come from Florida. It's even a joke in our house when we watch the news. And when reporting on a crazy case comes on my husband and I look at each other and go must be in Florida. 9 out of 10 it IS in Florida.
 
popsicle said:
Felony murder... punishable by death or life in prison.
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Is it Felony murder? I did find this.

Prosecutors may opt for the harshest charges available and then scale back in felony murder cases, said Jessica Gabel, an associate professor of law at Georgia State University in Atlanta.
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But it's kind of vague. I want confirmation of what he's charged with so I can look at the actual statute for the charge. It helps me understand where LE is at in the case.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/warrant-ga-man-returned-car-son-inside-24297276
 
2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON
ARTICLE 1 - HOMICIDE
§ 16-5-1 - Murder; felony murder
O.C.G.A. 16-5-1 (2010)
16-5-1. Murder; felony murder


(a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.

(b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.

(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

(d) A person convicted of the offense of murder shall be punished by death, by imprisonment for life without parole, or by imprisonment for life.

http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-5/article-1/16-5-1
 
2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON
ARTICLE 1 - HOMICIDE
§ 16-5-1 - Murder; felony murder
O.C.G.A. 16-5-1 (2010)
16-5-1. Murder; felony murder


Has the code changed since then? And does Georgia have the death penalty?
 
popsicle said:
2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON
ARTICLE 1 - HOMICIDE
§ 16-5-1 - Murder; felony murder
O.C.G.A. 16-5-1 (2010)
16-5-1. Murder; felony murder


(a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.

(b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.

(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

(d) A person convicted of the offense of murder shall be punished by death, by imprisonment for life without parole, or by imprisonment for life.

http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-5/article-1/16-5-1
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I'm not sure why that is written that way, Popsicle. The title indicates it's the statute for felony murder, but it appears to be the definition for "murder". I found this link that describes felony murder in Georgia. It doesn't require intent to harm as the above definition of "murder" does.

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/the-crime-of-felony-murder-in-georgia
 
JeannaT said:
I've been thinking about other things that people do absentmindedly. My son used to work at a restaurant take out window. It was amazing to him how many people would drive away after they paid and got their credit card and receipt handed back to them, BUT NOT THEIR FOOD. Some returned in minutes, some never leading me to believe they got so far away that it wasn't worth going back for the food by the time it occurred to them they didn't have it. Many gas stations have now made their gas nozzles easily able to snap off so when people finish filling up their cars and they DRIVE OFF with the nozzle still stuck in their gas tank it doesn't do major structural damage. How many times have I gone to the grocery store to get ONE particular necessary item and returned with 3 or 4 things I didn't need but not the one thing I need right now. I've had friends expected to come for a gathering that night and they were supposed to bring a covered dish - and they created the covered dish in the afternoon and then FORGOT to go to the event. They get a call and they say OHHH I completely forgot - be there in 10.
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rsbm

I've been thinking ahead to a possible trial (i.e. no plea agreement) and this could be problematic for a jury. Most everyone's done something forgetful – not necessarily involving a baby or animal - but something that made them feel guilty or stupid and that could evoke sympathy for the dad.

A good defense attorney could mitigate JRH “forgetting” Cooper with sleep deprivation (thanks to the mom's comments) along with a deaf right ear. The Internet searches could be spun as new parents being fearful for Cooper's safety, depending on the wording they used.

Character witnesses and relatives could attest to JRH being an excellent, loving dad. His histrionics at the shopping mall could be construed as a traumatized father in shock over discovering his son deceased.

Also, I know motive isn't required but it sure would help. I'm afraid the defense could muddy this case up just enough to leave reasonable doubt in a juror's mind that Cooper's death was an accident.

Unless new information, like a large insurance policy or adultery shows up, what motive could the prosecution present to negate what appears to be a happy family enjoying their baby – a baby that the mom worried that she wouldn't be able to have and whose birth brought them joy?

Well, as my late mother-in-law would say, “Don't borrow trouble.” :scared: Still, I am a little nervous.

Any thoughts on whether JRH will be offered a plea agreement?
 
16-5-1 Murder/Felony Murder | Georgia Law
(a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.

(b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.

(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

(d) A person convicted of the offense of murder shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for life.

http://rolfjoneslaw.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28&Itemid=4
 
JeannaT said:
I've been thinking about other things that people do absentmindedly. My son used to work at a restaurant take out window. It was amazing to him how many people would drive away after they paid and got their credit card and receipt handed back to them, BUT NOT THEIR FOOD. Some returned in minutes, some never leading me to believe they got so far away that it wasn't worth going back for the food by the time it occurred to them they didn't have it. Many gas stations have now made their gas nozzles easily able to snap off so when people finish filling up their cars and they DRIVE OFF with the nozzle still stuck in their gas tank it doesn't do major structural damage. How many times have I gone to the grocery store to get ONE particular necessary item and returned with 3 or 4 things I didn't need but not the one thing I need right now. I've had friends expected to come for a gathering that night and they were supposed to bring a covered dish - and they created the covered dish in the afternoon and then FORGOT to go to the event. They get a call and they say OHHH I completely forgot - be there in 10.
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snipped

None of the above caused injury or death of a 22 month old or a child, and IMO does not apply to this case. A 22 month old that just had breakfast with his daddy and his so called daddy had just put him in his car seat 4 mins. prior to forgetting the last hour spent with Cooper. That was also curious how long it would take for a child to die in a hot car( not word 4 word).
 
JeannaT said:
I'm not sure why that is written that way, Popsicle. The title indicates it's the statute for felony murder, but it appears to be the definition for "murder". I found this link that describes felony murder in Georgia. It doesn't require intent to harm as the above definition of "murder" does.

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/the-crime-of-felony-murder-in-georgia
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Jeanna - subsection "c" covers felony murder without intent or malice:

(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

I think the child cruelty charge covers the requirement that during the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being, irrespective of malice.
 
tangelo said:
Well, because if someone needs some device to remind them they have a helpless vulnerable child in their care, they shouldn't be alone with that child.
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I so agree with this. I do not understand any of it. Your children are your #1 priority. They should be the first consideration in every decision. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, or maybe just old. ;) There is NO option in regard to whether the kids are left in a car alone, in a home alone, and, unfortunately, they can't even play outside alone. If they are your first priority, they won't be forgotten. JMO
 
popsicle said:
2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON
ARTICLE 1 - HOMICIDE
§ 16-5-1 - Murder; felony murder
O.C.G.A. 16-5-1 (2010)
16-5-1. Murder; felony murder


(a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.

(b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.

(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

(d) A person convicted of the offense of murder shall be punished by death, by imprisonment for life without parole, or by imprisonment for life.

http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-5/article-1/16-5-1
Click to expand...

JeannaT said:
I'm not sure why that is written that way, Popsicle. The title indicates it's the statute for felony murder, but it appears to be the definition for "murder". I found this link that describes felony murder in Georgia. It doesn't require intent to harm as the above definition of "murder" does.

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/the-crime-of-felony-murder-in-georgia
Click to expand...

Read it.
 
popsicle said:
Read it.
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Yes, thanks, Sorrell pointed that out earlier.

I'm surprised it's not worded "a person commits the offense of felony murder when . . ."

And, honestly, I'm surprised that you can be put to death for a crime that the state acknowledges was accidental with no intent to harm. That's surprising.

Like with "involuntary manslaughter". If the state finds a person acted truly involuntarily, I don't see how they've committed a crime. Involuntary means you didn't voluntarily do something. Like, sneezing. Or vomiting. Or falling into someone and making them fall down a cliff.
 
CCmakes3 said:
I always thought the groom's cake was just an excuse to have a second, smaller cake of a different flavor, lol. Sort of a way to have some variety. Hubby and I decided jointly on the flavors of BOTH the "main" cake AND the "groom's" cake. I assumed everyone did it this way.
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If my daughter and her boyfriend of 5 1/2 yrs ever get married, I'm secretly getting him a Cornhole Groom cake( he loves Cornhole). Doubt they ever heard of a Groom Cake.:twocents:
 
My own understanding of the charges:

since it is murder under the (c) subsection - while in commission of committing felon child cruelty in the 2nd degree, no malice or aforethought (premeditation) is required.

In other words as I understand it they have only to prove he committed the felony of the cruel neglect in order to also prove murder the way GA law is written. It is also interesting to note GA does not have varying degrees of murder or manslaughter options. Murder is Murder is Murder.

At least that is what I have taken from my googling.
 
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