Trial Discussion Thread #45 - 14.07.3, Day 36

Onlyamum · Jul 5, 2014

Unbelievable video!!!!!!! He is clearly much more mobile than has been portrayed by the DT!!!!!

The only thing that makes me wonder what is going on is the caption above it?

"The never before seen footage of Oscar Pistorius re-enacting the night he killed Reeva that convinced a top forensic expert he is innocent."

Is this a Defence leak? I can't see how this will prove Oscar is 'innocent' unless there is much more to this than meets the eye? Also innocent he is not! He killed her and nobody disputes that so the word 'innocent' doesn't come into it! JMHO

Feynman · Jul 5, 2014

Marfa Lights said:
My boyfriend's mother was a R.N. in the U.S. Army during WWII. She related a story of having to handle a corpse that apparently "exhaled" as she moved it, giving her quite a fright. I hope some other medical types can help out here, but I believe it is possible for the lungs to retain air that could be expelled if the lungs are compressed, as might have happened with Oscar moving Reeva in the toilet cubicle, picking her up and carrying her downstairs.

This possibility was mentioned some time back, and I was hoping medical professionals would chip in on it. So far, none have that I can remember. This indeed may explain why the "still alive" idea wasn't challenged.

AJ_DS · Jul 5, 2014

Viper said:
Well it is not a jury trial. And Masipa would have to declare a mistrial based on she and the two assessors not being able to be unbiased because of the video. I can't see that happening, but I am extremely biased. LOL!

As far as OP doing this behind Roux's back in hopes of an appeal after his conviction, I doubt it. He can use all sorts of stuff in an appeal but that does not mean that it would be successful. This video is devastating to the story that his DT is currently trying to get the court to believe. OP and Arnold would have to be complete fools to release this believing that it serves their interests in any way. It is devastating to his defense.

Fully agree.

but it does seem like quite a coincidence that this video would surface at this exact time : This is allegedly the last Defence witness
and no one could have predicted Nel would postpone his cross-examination until Monday.

The video must have been in the hands of the CG company and perhaps a copy for the DT

Leaking it could result in a civil lawsuit against the CG company but they are used to dealing in criminal trials I suspect that they have some security and procedures to prevent such leakages.

So it comes back to the DT having leaked the video and since it does not seem to help their case there must be some yet unknown purpose behind the leak !!

I wonder if OP could prove that a member of his DT leaked the video OP could say that his Defence were working against him, betrayed him, client attorney privilegewhatever and ask for a mistrial based on misrepresentation.

Could that happen ?

Marfa Lights · Jul 5, 2014

G.bng said:
Well it can't be critical since Nel made a mistake when he said the small fan cable went "under" or was "trapped" by the speaker. OP challenged him on this saying he was misleading the court since he could see in the photo it went in front of the speaker, which it does. And Nel only jumped on this on the fly and no sooner OP challenged him he backed down and conceded OP could be right saying he would study the photo that evening and come back about it next day. He never did bring it up again so presumably realised his mistake just as OP and the press did at the time.

If you study the photo carefully at the bottom left of the speaker you can see that where the cable meets the speaker it rises up some 2 inches above the ground before going behind it and that it is the shadow of the cable, a shadow that wouldn't be present if the cable were running flat on the ground, that makes it look like the cable is pinned underneath. It was reported in the press at the time as Nel's mistake, and iirc, even on here. :

I would like to see a better photo of the cable under the speaker. The cable that exits the left side of the speaker appears to be a different color and diameter than the fan cord in this photo, but it is too fuzzy to say for sure.

kaos · Jul 5, 2014

I'm trying to figure out the time difference :blushing: If it's being shown at 8.30pm on Sunday 6th July then would it be 10am on 5th July roughly in the UK? Which could mean that it would definitely be public domain by the time Monday comes around.

jay-jay · Jul 5, 2014

G.bng said:
Well it can't be critical since Nel made a mistake when he said the small fan cable went "under" or was "trapped" by the speaker. OP challenged him on this saying he was misleading the court since he could see in the photo it went in front of the speaker, which it does. And Nel only jumped on this on the fly and no sooner OP challenged him he backed down and conceded OP could be right saying he would study the photo that evening and come back about it next day. He never did bring it up again so presumably realised his mistake just as OP and the press did at the time.

If you study the photo carefully at the bottom left of the speaker you can see that where the cable meets the speaker it rises up some 2 inches above the ground before going behind it and that it is the shadow of the cable, a shadow that wouldn't be present if the cable were running flat on the ground, that makes it look like the cable is pinned underneath. It was reported in the press at the time as Nel's mistake, and iirc, even on here.

Below relative quote from an article in The Australian, as well as a tweet from Emily Smith of CNN:

That wasn't a mistake on Nel's part .. he brought this up for another reason, not the reason you believe it to be (possibly something to do with checking to see exactly how astute OP was .. i.e. so that OP could not bring up at a later stage/appeal that he was so stressed and out of it that he didn't know what he was saying .. and also it may have been in order to check exactly how closely OP and the DT had studied the photos .. there may be other reasons, too). I very much doubt that anything Nel does is done in error, there will be a method/reason behind it.

Interested Bystander · Jul 5, 2014

AJ_DS said:
Fully agree.

… but it does seem like quite a coincidence that this video would surface at this exact time : This is allegedly the last Defence witness
and no one could have predicted Nel would postpone his cross-examination until Monday.

The video must have been in the hands of the CG company and perhaps a copy for the DT…

Leaking it could result in a civil lawsuit against the CG company… but they are used to dealing in criminal trials… I suspect that they have some security and procedures to prevent such leakages.

So it comes back to the DT having leaked the video… and since it does not seem to help their case… there must be some yet unknown purpose behind the leak !!

I wonder if OP could prove that a member of his DT leaked the video… OP could say that his Defence were working against him, betrayed him, client attorney privilege…whatever… and ask for a mistrial based on misrepresentation.

Could that happen ?

Not that I believe much of what the DT have said so far but they say they are furious at the leak.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Australian-TV-to-air-secret-Oscar-video-20140705

“Pistorius’s lawyers are reported furious to how the video got released and has told eNCA that Paralympian had not given permission for the footage to be aired.”

Viper · Jul 5, 2014

AJ_DS said:
Fully agree.

but it does seem like quite a coincidence that this video would surface at this exact time : This is allegedly the last Defence witness
and no one could have predicted Nel would postpone his cross-examination until Monday.

The video must have been in the hands of the CG company and perhaps a copy for the DT

Leaking it could result in a civil lawsuit against the CG company but they are used to dealing in criminal trials I suspect that they have some security and procedures to prevent such leakages.

So it comes back to the DT having leaked the video and since it does not seem to help their case there must be some yet unknown purpose behind the leak !!

I wonder if OP could prove that a member of his DT leaked the video OP could say that his Defence were working against him, betrayed him, client attorney privilegewhatever and ask for a mistrial based on misrepresentation.

Could that happen ?

No mistrial.

OP can fire his team, but AFAIK the trial would pick up right where it is with his new attorneys.

I'm guessing that someone outside of the DT did this for money. It could be someone that is or was employed by the animation company. I dismiss that it was someone on the DT, the trouble that it would rain down on them would just not be worth it. And OP wouldn't do it, this video destroys everything that the DT has been building going back to Dr. Vs testimony; remember that she said she could not even weigh OP because he could not stand still on his stumps, LOL!!!

Val1 · Jul 5, 2014

Marfa Lights said:
I would like to see a better photo of the cable under the speaker. The cable that exits the left side of the speaker appears to be a different color and diameter than the fan cord in this photo, but it is too fuzzy to say for sure.

Are these better for you?
from lisasalinger's blog:

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/04/09/oscar-trial-day-19-part-2-oscar/
http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/small-fan-day-19-part-2.png

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/oscar-trial-day-20-oscar/
http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/position-of-led-light.png
http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/jeans-on-duvet1.png

Giles · Jul 5, 2014

kaos said:
I'm trying to figure out the time difference :blushing: If it's being shown at 8.30pm on Sunday 6th July then would it be 10am on 5th July roughly in the UK? Which could mean that it would definitely be public domain by the time Monday comes around.

I think you are a day out. It will air in the morning of the 6th July UK time and South African time, so we'll before court's in session.

I hope it will be available online somewhere.

Val1 · Jul 5, 2014

Interested Bystander said:
Not that I believe much of what the DT have said so far but they say they are furious at the leak.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Australian-TV-to-air-secret-Oscar-video-20140705

“Pistorius’s lawyers are reported furious to how the video got released and has told eNCA that Paralympian had not given permission for the footage to be aired.”

Perhaps it hadn't been paid for, since they decided not to follow through with the animation and the company that took it decided to recoup the costs involved? Either way, it looks like someone has now paid for the rights to show it and hopefully it will assist the court in the search for the truth.

james83 · Jul 5, 2014

He comes flying down that room and slows down comfortably, he looks like he is acting in a film role totally focused instead of being emotional about recreating the night he killed the "love of his life", can't wait to this liar behind bars.

james83 · Jul 5, 2014

And remember Derman is still under oath, he can't even talk to Roux or Oldwadge, LOL.

kaos · Jul 5, 2014

james83 said:
He comes flying down that room and slows down comfortably, he looks like he is acting in a film role totally focused instead of being emotional about recreating the night he killed the "love of his life", can't wait to this liar behind bars.

I was thinking there's what look like white balls in a case on top of the coffee table and knew they used ping pong balls for markers in animation but the ones on the coffee table are just a tad too big

Val1 · Jul 5, 2014

AJ_DS said:
Fully agree.

… but it does seem like quite a coincidence that this video would surface at this exact time : This is allegedly the last Defence witness
and no one could have predicted Nel would postpone his cross-examination until Monday.

The video must have been in the hands of the CG company and perhaps a copy for the DT…

Leaking it could result in a civil lawsuit against the CG company… but they are used to dealing in criminal trials… I suspect that they have some security and procedures to prevent such leakages.

So it comes back to the DT having leaked the video… and since it does not seem to help their case… there must be some yet unknown purpose behind the leak !!

I wonder if OP could prove that a member of his DT leaked the video… OP could say that his Defence were working against him, betrayed him, client attorney privilege…whatever… and ask for a mistrial based on misrepresentation.

Could that happen ?

Perhaps one of the "experts" for the DT had been sent a copy that had convinced them and they decided to pass it on thinking it would convince others, not realizing how a perhaps more objective look at it would illustrate just how many fabrications, or tailoring of the facts, it would show?

Val1 · Jul 5, 2014

james83 said:
And remember Derman is still under oath, he can't even talk to Roux or Oldwadge, LOL.

Haha! You really think the "rules" would stop any corresponding between them, after they knowingly secreted OP's phone and sent it out for whatever it is they did to it before handing it over to the police, let RS's handbag be stolen from the crime scene by OP's sis, etc? I seem to recall they managed to get some reason to speak with Dixon during his cross too, or was that one of their other witnesses...

AJ_DS · Jul 5, 2014

Viper said:
No mistrial.

OP can fire his team, but AFAIK the trial would pick up right where it is with his new attorneys.

I'm guessing that someone outside of the DT did this for money. It could be someone that is or was employed by the animation company. I dismiss that it was someone on the DT, the trouble that it would rain down on them would just not be worth it. And OP wouldn't do it, this video destroys everything that the DT has been building going back to Dr. Vs testimony; remember that she said she could not even weigh OP because he could not stand still on his stumps, LOL!!!

Thanks.

Still something seems off-kilter about this whole leaked video… the timing is more than suspicious IMO… the more the DT protest about it, the more I feel it is some kind of underhanded tactic.

Surely Nel and his PT will be wise enough to figure it out if that is the case.

Guess like every other thing in this Trial, we will have to wait for Monday to see how it all unfolds.

Twaz also very strange how the DT absolutely wanted to know the name of the psychiatrist or psychologist Nel would consult with.

Something is afoot in the DT… or maybe I'm just paranoid, LOL

kaos · Jul 5, 2014

The Telegraph are reporting it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...p-shooting-in-extraordinary-leaked-video.html

Marfa Lights · Jul 5, 2014

Val1 said:
Are these better for you?

(snipped by me)

Thanks, but I still can't see enough detail to be sure. Thanks for the links though.

soozieqtips · Jul 5, 2014

Viper said:
It probably was ok, you just need to wait for the actual video to load. I have had to watch the same commercial over and over each time I replayed the video. FYI, Kohls food store is having a fantastic sale on family size blocks of Cadbury chocolates! Here is the link, good luck:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/video/watch/24393536/exclusive-pistorius-video/

Thanks. It's a 20-second clip, right? Was it speeded up or something? He looked quite fast on those stumps, nothing like the teetering hobbling unsteady person we've been hearing about who 'falls' over 'many' times because he's so unsteady on his stumps!!!! He's certainly not unsteady in that clip and he's certainly not slow.

Trial Discussion Thread #45 - 14.07.3, Day 36

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