Trial Discussion Thread #46 - 14.07.7, Day 37

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Judgejudi said:
I'd been wondering for such a long time whether she was aware of his story pre-trial. Because of the looks on her face all the time I decided that she didn't but that Carl probably did, even if they didn't know the whole story. I must say I was really surprised when she was in the video. So if she's known all along, why on earth was she crying all the time? IMO it can only be that Nel destroyed his version so utterly and now she's really scared that he may be going to prison.
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BBM...IMO she was crying both for OP and the realization what the real truth was.
 
Marfa Lights said:
Agreed. That's why OP kept insisting that the magazine rack was closer was to the door (instead of where it was when Reeva fell on it after the first shot)-- so it would make sense that the intruder (or as it turned out, Reeva) would have kicked it making the noise.

As I have said in previous posts, and as many others agree, it appears that Oscar re-aimed after hearing Reeva fall on the magazine rack after the first shot hit her in the hip. It's another example of Oscar incorporating elements of reality into his story. He heard the magazine rack, all right, and IMO it made him fire the second, third, and fourth bullets.
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agreed. and if op heard the magazine rack move - which must have moved (sound been heard) after the first shot as reeva fell backwards - then there goes the 'version' about temporary deafness due to the shots too...
 
minor4th said:
This bugs me so much - Nel is asking if OP said he heard a magazine rack, and Dr says "yes." But Nel knows very well that OP said he assumed it was the magazine rack in hindsight - at the time of the incident, he thought it was the sound of the door opening.

Is the point to get at the truth or to trick witnesses into saying things that aren't accurate but are more favorable to the state's case?
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Nel was asking what Derman asked OP and what OP said to Derman. He is entitled to ask this and get to the truth of this.* You are confusing this with what OP said to court. Only in court did OP say it sounded like the door opening and retrospectively he thinks it must have been the rack. Derman's interview with OP is something different. Derman said OP told him he heard the magazine rack, made no mention of the door in relation to that sound, and Derman himself explained that by the word 'subsequently' in his report he meant subsequent to sounds 1 and 2.

* the reasons should be self-explanatory. The consistency of Pistorius' version of that sound is a huge question and one Nel is testing. Also, the rigour of Derman's assessment is being tested - not asking or knowing what the noise sounded like raises questions, same with not knowing or observing if he 'ran' holding the wall or how his arms were. Remember, he thought it very, very important to hear this stuff first hand and specifically revisited OP to see how he 'ran'...
 
Local SA Channel 199:

Prof James Grant, professor of law at WITS university, says that Derman's statistics about how 80% (or whatever, I can't remember) of disabled people would react with a certain flight/fight startle response is not at all relevant because Derman can not say whether Oscar is part of the 80% or part of the 20%. So it is useless testimony from Derman.
 
Marfa Lights said:
Agreed. That's why OP kept insisting that the magazine rack was closer was to the door (instead of where it was when Reeva fell on it after the first shot)-- so it would make sense that the intruder (or as it turned out, Reeva) would have kicked it making the noise.

As I have said in previous posts, and as many others agree, it appears that Oscar re-aimed after hearing Reeva fall on the magazine rack after the first shot hit her in the hip. It's another example of Oscar incorporating elements of reality into his story. He heard the magazine rack, all right, and IMO it made him fire the second, third, and fourth bullets.
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My thoughts exactly thank you :)
 
Zim said:
As I understood it, the magazine rack moved after the first shot (that hit her in the hip) She collapsed and fell against the magazine rack. He then fired the next three shots in that direction. (?)
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Ahhhh but not according to OP that's my whole point.
OP said the 'movement'/'sound of the magazine rack is what caused him to fire.
It couldn't have moved as Reeva was standing facing the door when she was hit by the first shot !
 
04009margaret said:
Oh dear, guilty as charges. I was the original poster of the video that went viral.......sent it GN's email which I'm unable to disclose. GN got the video & the NPA sent me a reply advising me of this. Once again webslueths got it first before it went viral
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Well done Margaret. You set the world on fire yesterday. You'll remember this forever and we're so proud of you.

:yourock: :balloons: :fireworks:
 
Snipped

Marfa Lights said:
Agreed. That's why OP kept insisting that the magazine rack was closer was to the door (instead of where it was when Reeva fell on it after the first shot)-- so it would make sense that the intruder (or as it turned out, Reeva) would have kicked it making the noise.
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Absolutely. And also to the left side of reeva's standing position (her left), where the left foot must have done the kicking. No coincidence IMO that the right hip was agreed by both sides to be close to the door and in standing position and the first bullet.

Neither version makes any sense -what would the rack be doing close to her feet in the first place and to move it that far would be an almighty kick (we saw in court how substantial it is)
 
Val1 said:
I used to run track back in high school and I don't think I ever had both feet off the ground at the same time... how would you keep your speed up without the traction from pushing forward with each step?
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BIB
IDK if it's traction or push or pull, but your not alone as many don't realise it. And no-one knew for sure we had both feet off the ground at times while running, nor that horses had all four legs off the ground at times while galloping, not until the latter part of the 19c when the first motion study photographer, Eadweard Muybridge, proved that what was at the time still a nascent theory was correct by photographing animals and people occupied in different activities against a parallel lined backdrop using stop-motion photography from several cameras aligned at set distances in front.

There's a lot about Muybridge on the web if you're interested but if you have a couple of mins and like funky music I found this little montage with animations of some of the motion studies from EM's book which when I studied art was still an illustrator's bible for human and animal movement some 100 years on (his running man and galloping horse appear several times so you don't have to watch all). Enjoy... I hope!


[video=youtube;xVc68ucgT2o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVc68ucgT2o[/video]
 
zwiebel said:
I think somone's pinched all our thanks buttons. How disconcerting and what a cheek. Give them back!
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I had to log in repeatedly yesterday. That's probably the cause.
 
I think the video shows OP moving swiftly, but it's not possible to say how fast because there is no-one else moving in the video.

It does show him keeping his balance moving with an arm outstretched (not easy for even able-bodied).

It also shows his stride is much shorter than a person with full legs and feet, in my opinion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oment-shot-Reeva-Steenkamp-bathroom-door.html
 

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Judgejudi said:
Well done Margaret. You set the world on fire yesterday. You'll remember this forever and we're so proud of you.

:yourock: :balloons: :fireworks:
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LOL Another webslueths exclusive, if you want to hear it first sign up.
 
04009margaret said:
Was there a chance the DT considered putting Roger Dixon back on the stand....according to twitter he was seen at court today,
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You would have to be a very very very desperate defence to contemplate doing that, so yes there probably was a chance.
 
44ALLAN said:
Ahhhh but not according to OP that's my whole point.
OP said the 'movement'/'sound of the magazine rack is what caused him to fire.
It couldn't have moved as Reeva was standing facing the door when she was hit by the first shot !
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It makes no sense anyway.
He originally described the alleged sound as "wood moving" as though the door was being pushed open and sticking slightly. This sound would be entirely different from a wooden object (eg magazine rack) against tile. That would produce either a rattling sound, or a squeak (screech!) if it was scraping along the tile.
 
Does anyone find an emotionless Pistorius posing as his dead girlfriend and recreating his own killing actions just the most, awful creepy thing in this mondo-trial? Where's his famous crying and vomiting?

And then we get to his adoring sister acting as the dead body... *shudder*

(It's so Oedipal, disappearing father, dead mother surrogate, disabled Oedipus who wrecks havoc on everything. I'm starting to miss the Stipps and Berger for that relatively calm, reasonable start of the LAST 13+ weeks :facepalm: )
 
zwiebel said:
Some stills from the video at daily Mail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oment-shot-Reeva-Steenkamp-bathroom-door.html
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Just catching up (and reading backwards, of course) ....So according to the still shot above, OP appears to contend that dead Reeva (or nearly dead Reeva) helpfully wrapped her right arm up around OP's shoulder (head upright! Despite the head shot she sustained! And left arm clutched to chest?), and lovingly cupped OP's neck despite brain matter leaking from her head, her hip shattered, and losing massive quantities of blood?

Is that his sister lovingly cupping his neck? :waitasec:
 
Judgejudi said:
Well done Margaret. You set the world on fire yesterday. You'll remember this forever and we're so proud of you.

:yourock: :balloons: :fireworks:
Click to expand...

WOW, how time flies, it was actually July 5th pm Aus time I posted that video
 
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