Trial Discussion Thread #48

Val1 said:

bbm - I was looking for that too and it's gone now apparently... also, I note that RS referred to him as her boyfriend and not her fiance, significant? Also, in one of the articles there was a little admission which once again points to OP's PR.

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-15-00-oscar-pistorius-valentines-day-of-despair

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1. BIB Do you remember what she was wearing Val ? AFAIR she was wearing light blue jeans and white shirt and ponytail, jeans same color with the ones on the ground under bathroom window .. with the belt on it ( ?) but she had texted that she would do the washing way before so it seems that those jeans on the ground couldn't have been washed ..

2.Her last footage coming in the estate , she was wearing black tshirt and white shorts. So she must have changed before going out last time ?
3.Were her washed clothes found ?
4. About the trash bags found .. Maybe they were on the scene for throwing away /taking away some disturbing items from that fatal night i.e.bloody t-shirt, empty alcohol bottles , an iphone etc ?? :thinking:

Val1 said:

Going back to info about the background to some of those texts RS sent, I don't recall having seen this bit before:

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/hougaard-denies-sms-to-reeva-1.1583956


http://www.thejournal.ie/oscar-pistorius-trial-4-1379718-Mar2014/


Sounds to me like he got upset because she dared to speak to someone who she had just recently been dating... and OP felt "threatened" and according to his reply, over-reacted.

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It's a good rhetorical idea.. But what bugs me is why did reeva stay that night ..... she never wanted to she had to get back home she may have planned to stay a little longer than she meant to but not all night early morning.
Did op lock the bedroom door? Resulting in the final row ?
Why did she eat at 1 am Ish.. If she wanted to go home that would mean the bedroom door was locked after she ate food.... The shattered bath panel near the window was that op with the bat as she was yelling for help before she ran into the toilet followed by more bats to the door before gun shots..?
Again why did she stay that night when she did not want too? I wonder what op did or say that made her stay since she clearly ate so late/ early in morning with Frank next to the kitchen and a means of escape avalable
Anybody???

MURDERER_SERVANT said:

1. BIB Do you remember what she was wearing Val ? AFAIR she was wearing light blue jeans and white shirt and ponytail, jeans same color with the ones on the ground under bathroom window .. with the belt on it ( ?) but she had texted that she would do the washing way before so it seems that those jeans on the ground couldn't have been washed ..

2.Her last footage coming in the estate , she was wearing black tshirt and white shorts. So she must have changed before going out last time ?
3.Were her washed clothes found ?
4. About the trash bags found .. Maybe they were on the scene for throwing away /taking away some disturbing items from that fatal night i.e.bloody t-shirt, empty alcohol bottles , an iphone etc ?? :thinking:

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I don't think this is the one I was thinking of, I seem to recall seeing her actually at or close to a sales counter and perhaps leaving a store, but close to your description. This is really about the only one left I can find that's even close. The rest of your questions... hopefully Nel will enlighten us in his closing!

http://www.bellenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Oscar-Pistorius-has-described-the-moment-he-fired-the-shots-which-killed-his-girlfriend-Reeva-Steenkamp-in-his-home-in-Pretoria.jpg?e422e3

Ncl1968 said:

It's a good rhetorical idea.. But what bugs me is why did reeva stay that night ..... she never wanted to she had to get back home she may have planned to stay a little longer than she meant to but not all night early morning.
Did op lock the bedroom door? Resulting in the final row ?
Why did she eat at 1 am Ish.. If she wanted to go home that would mean the bedroom door was locked after she ate food.... The shattered bath panel near the window was that op with the bat as she was yelling for help before she ran into the toilet followed by more bats to the door before gun shots..?
Again why did she stay that night when she did not want too? I wonder what op did or say that made her stay since she clearly ate so late/ early in morning with Frank next to the kitchen and a means of escape avalable
Anybody???

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Yes, that would make understanding what happened so much easier, all I can come up with is she was consoling him, at least initially.:/

Plus if she had let him go over her new contracts like he testified and that added to the stress of the day(he may not have agreed with what he saw), who knows, perhaps they decided to take a nap to chill out on the hot day and they simply slept too long...

Perhaps not only was it then too late for RS to drive home but OP was really annoyed because his training was totally screwed for that day what with a very early morning drive to not be late for an important meeting with lots of people, signing paperwork for the new house supposedly( going to his realtor's business' 10th party, unless he was already there for the paperwork), going for a late lunch with his buddy, trying to arrange RS's evening so he'd know where she was(or rather wasn't) so he could go out with the boys, then ending up having to go home for the home cooked meal she stayed to cook for him(still didn't see any evidence relating to that past RS's stomach contents) where he was surprised with a gift that he wasn't allowed to open until the next day and oops, he didn't have one in return... so supper gets put on hold while that played out.

I think if RS really believed that Valentine's was so special to him like she'd said and he turned up with nothing for her, after she'd made the effort that she had, she'd be pretty hurt. Maybe he did come up with that whole, but baby I wanted to meet you in town after your speech as a surprise and take you to get a charm for your bracelet or maybe a car(oh wait, that was his sister it turns out he was actually in the market for one for...). Anyway, she probably forgave him and ended up agreeing to stay the night after all, though that doesn't mean she wasn't still hurt and now distracted from her speech which she had to stay up trying to finish.

Lol, I just realized my story is almost as bad as OP's... time to go start supper... ttyl

Nice try.. Lol...
I doubt she wanted his grubby hands anywhere near her legal stuff.
I think she gave the valantine card and gift cos she did not plan on staying till the 14 th of February
Again I wonder what he did or say that made her a prisoner of that house / situation???

jay-jay said:

.. there's supposed to be another image attached to that post but it only uploaded one .. this was the other one, from that same message

View attachment 55125

.. all this was entered as evidence.

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He looks oddly like one of OP's security guards but is possibly a cousin? I would nt say it is him for sure though.

Scroll down a bit for pic -


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26939443

Ncl1968 said:

Nice try.. Lol...
I doubt she wanted his grubby hands anywhere near her legal stuff.
I think she gave the valantine card and gift cos she did not plan on staying till the 14 th of February
Again I wonder what he did or say that made her a prisoner of that house / situation???

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Agreed.

AJ_DS said:

In all fairness, I have no problem believing that people at the club may have been objectively aggressive towards OP… or subjectively appeared to be aggressive from OP's perspective.

OP is used to be being treated as SA's prodigal son, adored by all, the center of attention (in a good way)… that was surely not the case this time.

But OP is completely deluded… the fact that he would even show up at this type of venue during his criminal Trial is proof of that.

I can speculate on OP's state of mind : "It was an honest accident, I'm not a murderer, I'm innocent… and the Trial is not over yet… won't you give me the benefit of the doubt ?"

OP got a lot of dirty looks from party goers… perhaps even overheard a hurtful (but deserved) comment or two… so Bruce Banner got angry and went into 'Hulk smash' mode !

OP just doesn't get it… even if acquitted of all charges, that would not change the fact that :

- The vast majority of people are convinced he murdered Reeva.

- Everybody saw through his pathetic child-like display at self-preservation in Court.

- Nobody wants anything to do or even be associated with OP… unless they can use him to partake in his family's wealth and connections.


Had I been the Club owner, I would have simply denied OP entry to the Club on the basis that his presence inside would have caused a disturbance…

… whilst secretly wishing that OP would make enough of a scene at the door that my bouncers would have had to manhandle him a bit and that I would have to call the police on him.

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..

"Had I been the Club owner, I would have simply denied OP entry to the Club on the basis that his presence inside would have caused a disturbance…"

Becoming a notorious night spot via negative publicity may be the best thing for their business!

Val1 said:

Even if they don't believe he "murdered" her in cold blood, he did admit to shooting her through a closed toilet door and killing her, I really cannot understand why he would think people would just let it go and welcome him back with open arms. Surely there must be at least one or two among his vastly large and wealthy family that are having trouble accepting OP's versions and excuses. Even if he was one of my sons, at this point I'd certainly be hard-pressed to believe that he's not at least partially culpable for any negative publicity he receives when he continues to insist on living like he'd done nothing wrong before his trial has even finished, let alone for what he's being charged with.

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Not many people are aware of the fact that ex-US President George W. Bush's wife, Laura, killed someone. True.

http://voices.yahoo.com/laura-bush-killed-guy-yes-she-did-no-she-didnt-4210139.html

kittychi said:

There are reputation management firms that have ways to "scrub" the internet of negative information on people. Maybe they don't pay Google, but some way they get it done.

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Agreed. And in the EU, at least, there's also the new "Right to be forgotten". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten

MURDERER_SERVANT said:

View attachment 55174
Does anyone have the tech to make this chart readible ?

I wonder if there's any info we are not aware of here..
http://ewn.co.za/2014/03/25/Questions-surround-the-Pistorius-trial

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Unless someone can locate a much larger copy of this photo and/or one with much higher resolution, there's nothing I'm personally able to do with this on Photoshop - and I've got skills. ) I did try, though.

I'm with her dad -- I wish she had stayed with the law.

IMHO, beautiful women "models," who are as relentlessly photoshopped as Reeva was, are a dime a dozen. While she, personally, may not have been shallow (I'm not yet convinced but I'm trying to keep an open mind), in my personal experience, it tends to be a shallow world full of insecure, immature people, who have LOTS of personal problems.

Brilliant women who choose to "lean into" their brains first and also happen to be beautiful inside and out are the ones who are truly unique (if "standing out" was that was something she sought). Personally, I think she sold herself short - AND I think she sold herself out. I watched those episodes of Tropika Island, or whatever it was called, and that show was the worse kind of mind-numbing nonsense.

I'd like to think that, had she lived long enough, at some point she would have awoken to her true value. If she didn't, she could very well have been the next Lana Clarkson - 40 y.o. Hollywood actress (single with no kids - by choice or by circumstance) who never "made it" but couldn't let go of the dream, shot dead in the mouth by Phil Specter, as she continued to chase the "it's not what you know, it's who you know" golden ring.

(Judgmental much, ColonelMustard? Guilty as charged. Better that everyone have no life at all and spend every spare minute on WS like I do!! Ha!)

ColonelMustard said:

I'm with her dad -- I wish she had stayed with the law.

IMHO, beautiful women "models," who are as relentlessly photoshopped as Reeva was, are a dime a dozen. While she, personally, may not have been shallow (I'm not yet convinced but I'm trying to keep an open mind), in my personal experience, it tends to be a shallow world full of insecure, immature people, who have LOTS of personal problems.

Brilliant women who choose to "lean into" their brains first and also happen to be beautiful inside and out are the ones who are truly unique (if "standing out" was that was something she sought). Personally, I think she sold herself short - AND I think she sold herself out. I watched those episodes of Tropika Island, or whatever it was called, and that show was the worse kind of mind-numbing nonsense.

I'd like to think that, had she lived long enough, at some point she would have awoken to her true value. If she didn't, she could very well have been the next Lana Clarkson - 40 y.o. Hollywood actress who never "made it" but couldn't let go of the dream, shot dead in the mouth by Phil Specter, as she continued to chase the "it's not what you know, it's who you know" golden ring.

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From most of what I've read about her, the main reason for going into modeling was to make some money quickly after recovering from her broken back and graduating with her degree, her plan was always to go back to law once she had "peaked" because she knew she was already pretty old for a model. When it comes down to it, there's not that many options open for a woman wanting to get a good financial footing before they settle on a less profitable career like becoming a battered women's advocate, especially if they're trying to provide some financial relief for parents at the same time.

Two questions:

1. There's a woman one level down on Masipa's right who's in charge of two huge identical square box-looking things with screens that face Masipa. What ARE those things and what is that woman doing? What about the guy one level down on Masipa's right?

2. Nel has a binder that's about 4" thick that looks to be full of photos. If so, does Masipa get that whole binder or just the photos they use on the screen in court?

Thanks, in advance.

Val1 said:

From most of what I've read about her, the main reason for going into modeling was to make some money quickly after recovering from her broken back and graduating with her degree, her plan was always to go back to law once she had "peaked" because she knew she was already pretty old for a model. When it comes down to it, there's not that many options open for a woman wanting to get a good financial footing before they settle on a less profitable career like becoming a battered women's advocate, especially if they're trying to provide some financial relief for parents at the same time.

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I hear you, and thanks for that. I'm in the US and know many lawyers, both men and women, who come from zero money and graduate from law school with huge debt. Some also support parents and/or siblings. What they've done is work in law firms making big bucks doing law they don't want to do for few years, then they quit and go into non-profit or legal aid work. Same for the medical students I teach. However, every once in awhile a woman does come along who goes a different route and is willing to publicize it (e.g., Ivy League Stripper, Med-student-auctions-off-her-virginity )

ColonelMustard said:

I hear you, and thanks for that. I'm in the US and know many lawyers, both men and women, who come from zero money and graduate from law school with huge debt. Some also support parents and/or siblings. What they've done is work in law firms making big bucks doing law they don't want to do for few years, then they quit and go into non-profit or legal aid work. Same for the medical students I teach. However, every once in awhile a woman does come along who goes a different route and is willing to publicize it (e.g., Ivy League Stripper, Med-student-auctions-off-her-virginity )

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Perhaps becoming famous was part of her plan to hopefully better further the cause for battered women? How often do you hear about all those women who become judges and lawyers that took the traditional route of working for another lawyer for years and years as their lackey with noone ever knowing their names, compared to someone like Gloria Steinem who took a less traveled path, similar to the one RS was taking?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Steinem

Steinem was employed as a Playboy Bunny at the New York Playboy Club

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ColonelMustard said:

Not many people are aware of the fact that ex-US President George W. Bush's wife, Laura, killed someone. True.

http://voices.yahoo.com/laura-bush-killed-guy-yes-she-did-no-she-didnt-4210139.html

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And Ted Kennedy killed Mary Jo Kopechne. And failed to report it.

Also killed people: Matthew Broderick, Don King, Howard Hughes, Rebecca Gayheart, singer Brandi....

I don't need to idealise a victim but there is a tired familiarity to this debate about women who "play with fire", are critiqued as "shallow" or seen by others to sell themselves short and make unintelligent choices as a their precursor to death - people said similar things of Nicole Simpson (and Ronald Goldman), Simon Gittany's victim Lisa Harnum, even of Allison Baden-Clay and the recent long recent list of girlfriends shot dead by their teen boyfriends...

Irregardless on judgements about the modelling industry or reality shows, or the lifestyle choices of each victim, it's Pistorius that shot four times at a toilet door.

Is this article out yet! Was Pistorius seen drinking and flirting weeks after her death...this was just tweeted:

"@SureKamhunga: Oscar Pistorius tried to charm a Reeva lookalike at a party where he downed drinks weeks after her being shot by him - @SundayTimesZA"

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"@SundayTimesZA: #OscarPistorius, the party and the #ReevaSteenkamp lookalike. See Sunday Times tomorrow pic.twitter.com/IKH6wTQ2de"

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