Malaysia airlines 370 with 239 people on board, 8 March 2014 #25

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I am only recently signed up but Kate, my wife is the one who may have seen it on our crossing from India. I have so far ploughed through about half way so sorry if some of my isssues are repeated elsewhere but I really think this is worth saying even if it is duplicated further on!

This statement reiterates that the MH370 Satcom was only enabled once the aircraft was further than the 200 mile radar radius of an Air Traffic Control Tower (typically found at all airports).
This logically infers that the airplane could not have been within the airspace of Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand or Indonesia.
Either this statement is incorrect (as within 3 or 7 minutes depending on source of ping rings of last primary radar it must still be well within the 200 mile range of Indonesia (Acer Banda) and Thai (Phuket) as well as Indian (Andamans) ATC towers???, or Inmarsat data has been edited.
If electronic why would the first transmission be 18:25, and thereafter until the last one at 41 minutes past the hour - that is not the way electronics work and to have a reliability 2 out of 7 being "random"generated is not a believable failure rate for high grade electronic equipment! My cheapo mobile has never changed my alarm by undetectable time variations! There is growing suspicion on Duncans blog and the ping ring/s are being discarded - too technical for me but point is if scientific community does not have confidence as they claim only partial data release then where does the evidance get credibility from - and a commercially interested party such as Inmarsat who stand to loose millions if alternative up to date technology is chosen certainly have a conflict of interest here! I do not know if there is credance in the ping ring stuff - however full data disclosure to independant groups would be an acceptable test of the validity of their claim.

Inmarsat compared the BFO for a number of flights & they also sent their research to a number of peers for review. After the release of the Inmarsat raw data, the once critical scientists on the Duncan Steel website also now support Inmarsat's theory.......
Burst Frequency Offset measures the actual frequency of a moving object. So the fact there was any BFO at all connected to MH370, means that the plane was moving & not stationary. This data was transmitted from the plane through the ground station to the Inmarsat terminal,
so more than one record was created in different locations hundreds of miles apart.
From ATSB report On page 24 ” For a given relative motion, there are many combinations of aircraft speed and heading that will produce the correct frequency change (BFO). There is however a limited range of speeds at which an aircraft can operate and therefore the number of feasible speed/direction solutions is limited (Figure 23).” If you read BFO validation page 29 ” This simulation was able to prove definitively that the BFO value is influenced by the location, speed and heading of the aircraft.”, none of which are known, “assuming a single turn followed by a predominantly straight track”. and then go onto the assumptions made for the three Analyses.
BFO is absolute nonsnense here and has absolutely no use in the investigation for the simple reason is that the inputs determine the outputs so they actually can be shown to show what ever you want! If you assume a Southern route and plug in some southern numbers it will give you some southern options, same thing if you use northern data.

Inmarsat have claimed there is radar data showing a turn North of the Andamans and MH370 heading south. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhRO-0Lx_kQ on the 24 March. This has somehow "grown into fact" yet where is this evidence? Iff you look at the CNN live broadcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G97RCynAzxM it shows what appears to be this evidence (see http://mapwaveanalysis.com/mapwaves...t-can-you-do/mapolitics/mh370/resources/atsb/ for times)
Malaysian authorities claim to have sealed evidence http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big...h370-cannot-be-made-publ#sthash.D7Et3nCL.dpuf. HOWEVER as the last known position being used for these critical calculations of BTO and BFO is the Malaysian radar data Inmarsat really has NO CREDIBILITY and there is NO EVIDENCE THAT RULES OUT THE NORTHERN OPTION or ATSB is intentionally misleading the search based on not utilizing all known data.

Personally Inmarsats conflict of interest is too great, and combined with the contradictory evidence and analysis by various groups, including Inmarsat and ATSB, I do not believe the ping ring stuff is fact! MH370 can be anywhere within its fuel range.
 
On our crossing from India in addition to Kates possible sighting we saw a few other unexplained things which at the time seemed nothing out of the ordinary - lights, buoy and unusual shipping movements
http://mapwaveanalysis.com/mapwaves...possible-sighting/mysterious-lights-and-buoy/
THE MOST LIKELY EXPLANATIONS GIVEN TO DATE - were a naval flotilla, a acoustical target or target buoy and a search vessel.

It appears what Kate may have seen was a port engine fire and with the mysterious sealed radar data A POSSIBLE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS COULD BE AS SPECULATED - Unidentified aircraft that is not communicating approaching naval flotilla who defends itself by disabling the aircraft as a further threat, and hence radar data sealed. THIS WOULD NOT BE THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS HAPPENED SO PRECEDENCE HAS BEEN SET.
WHY NOT MAKE IT PUBLIC - Motive? - self interest and preservation through covering up incompetence?
 
I am only recently signed up but Kate, my wife is the one who may have seen it on our crossing from India. I have so far ploughed through about half way so sorry if some of my isssues are repeated elsewhere but I really think this is worth saying even if it is duplicated further on!


Either this statement is incorrect (as within 3 or 7 minutes depending on source of ping rings of last primary radar it must still be well within the 200 mile range of Indonesia (Acer Banda) and Thai (Phuket) as well as Indian (Andamans) ATC towers???, or Inmarsat data has been edited.
If electronic why would the first transmission be 18:25, and thereafter until the last one at 41 minutes past the hour - that is not the way electronics work and to have a reliability 2 out of 7 being "random"generated is not a believable failure rate for high grade electronic equipment! My cheapo mobile has never changed my alarm by undetectable time variations! There is growing suspicion on Duncans blog and the ping ring/s are being discarded - too technical for me but point is if scientific community does not have confidence as they claim only partial data release then where does the evidance get credibility from - and a commercially interested party such as Inmarsat who stand to loose millions if alternative up to date technology is chosen certainly have a conflict of interest here! I do not know if there is credance in the ping ring stuff - however full data disclosure to independant groups would be an acceptable test of the validity of their claim.


From ATSB report On page 24 ” For a given relative motion, there are many combinations of aircraft speed and heading that will produce the correct frequency change (BFO). There is however a limited range of speeds at which an aircraft can operate and therefore the number of feasible speed/direction solutions is limited (Figure 23).” If you read BFO validation page 29 ” This simulation was able to prove definitively that the BFO value is influenced by the location, speed and heading of the aircraft.”, none of which are known, “assuming a single turn followed by a predominantly straight track”. and then go onto the assumptions made for the three Analyses.
BFO is absolute nonsnense here and has absolutely no use in the investigation for the simple reason is that the inputs determine the outputs so they actually can be shown to show what ever you want! If you assume a Southern route and plug in some southern numbers it will give you some southern options, same thing if you use northern data.

Inmarsat have claimed there is radar data showing a turn North of the Andamans and MH370 heading south. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhRO-0Lx_kQ on the 24 March. This has somehow "grown into fact" yet where is this evidence? Iff you look at the CNN live broadcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G97RCynAzxM it shows what appears to be this evidence (see http://mapwaveanalysis.com/mapwaves...t-can-you-do/mapolitics/mh370/resources/atsb/ for times)
Malaysian authorities claim to have sealed evidence http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big...h370-cannot-be-made-publ#sthash.D7Et3nCL.dpuf. HOWEVER as the last known position being used for these critical calculations of BTO and BFO is the Malaysian radar data Inmarsat really has NO CREDIBILITY and there is NO EVIDENCE THAT RULES OUT THE NORTHERN OPTION or ATSB is intentionally misleading the search based on not utilizing all known data.

Personally Inmarsats conflict of interest is too great, and combined with the contradictory evidence and analysis by various groups, including Inmarsat and ATSB, I do not believe the ping ring stuff is fact! MH370 can be anywhere within its fuel range.

:welcome6:


There are a ton of posts to go through. Glad you are here - your wife's observations were inspirational for some of us who entertain a different spin than what is offered by MAL at this point.
Looking forward to hearing more of what you have to add to the forum.
 
Welcome maphorn,
Happy you recently signed up!!
Indeed your wife's sailoress Kate's observations (who may have seen the MH370 on your crossing from India) are very inspirational!
I also hope you are allowed by the WS forum Moderators to attach Kate's Blog onto this forum, as
normally Blogs are not treated as reliable, compared to MSM Main Stream Media on this Forum?
 
MSM http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/New-crowdsourced-data-shows-Phuket-yacht-sighting/30940
"British sailor Katherine Tee, 41, was sailing from Cochin, India to Phuket with her husband
when on March 7 she saw what looked like a plane on fire crossing the night sky, with a plume
of black smoke trailing behind it."
Volunteer members of the public, one of them a flight test engineer who used flight-simulator software, compared
the logged course of Ms Tee’s yacht SY Aaza Dana as it passed south of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands and
cross-correlated it with data from the International Maritime Organization navigation and communications satellite network, Inmarsat.
Inmarsat has already confirmed that according to its data, MH370 flew west over the Andaman and Nicobar Islands before making possibly
two course corrections as it headed south (story here).
The Inmarsat data indicated a final “ping” – or electronic “handshake” – between MH370 and the satellite network
near a “communications arc” at 00:11 UTC that led the massive international search effort to hunt the missing aircraft to deep waters
in the southern Indian Ocean far off the west coast of Australia."
"“[The] flight path (now verified on a 777 simulator), and a visual illustration of elevation angles suggested by an independent
investigator perfectly illustrates what I saw when I was out there,” she said.
"
 
"To intensify the search for MH 370, the Royal Malaysian Navy has deputed KD Mutiara, in the Southern Indian Ocean. It is a hydrographic vessel equipped fitted with the latest sonar equipment. It can detect objects up to 10,000 meters beneath the surface of sea.

The ship left the Malaysian Naval base in Perak in the first week of August. The vessel will join the Chinese survey ship Zhu Kezhen and Australia's Fugro Equator."

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/5624...mh-370-dutch-australia-china.htm#.U-sPDPmSweg
 
I am only recently signed up but Kate, my wife is the one who may have seen it on our crossing from India. I have so far ploughed through about half way so sorry if some of my isssues are repeated elsewhere but I really think this is worth saying even if it is duplicated further on!

Repectfully snipped for space

Welcome to the thread maphorn. :seeya:

Just a few things, and I do agree with most of 2rose’s info as most/all of it has been derived from the Duncan Steel scientists (which I, too, have been following) and other known items.

If electronic why would the first transmission be 18:25, and thereafter until the last one at 41 minutes past the hour ...

This is a very basic explanation, but …
The first transmission was at 18:25 - thought to be something happening with the electrical systems that caused them to try to log on again.
The last one was at 41 mins past the hour as that is when fuel was running out and engines were stopping/had stopped


There is growing suspicion on Duncans blog and the ping ring/s are being discarded.

This was the scientists initial position, but since Inmarsat’s raw data was released, the scientists on Duncan's blog are primarily in agreeance with it, and also agree that BFO can cause some differentiation, but not more than 100km across the arc (which still can create a heck of a lot of potential search area).


Also, my opinion only, but it is difficult to believe that so many nations would spend so very much money/resources in this ongoing search if they were just taking the word of Inmarsat, a private company. The fact that many of them have had their own esteemed specialists involved in the data evaluation has, I believe, led them to continue to fund this search in the selected and revised zones.


ETA: Just want to add that I, personally, think that it is highly likely that MH370/an unidentified plane was briefly seen, then disappeared, on radar by JORN .... http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Jindalee_Operational_Radar_Network .... though it has not been admitted in any way.
 
[h=1]Mystery as £20,000 cash is withdrawn from accounts of four passengers who went down with doomed Flight MH370[/h]
  • Bank detected mysterious transactions 5 months after flight disappeared
  • Money moved from accounts of 3 passengers into 4th passenger's accounts
  • Police have launched investigation into the claims
  • Search efforts ongoing for doomed flight, underwater search next month


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...four-passengers-went-doomed-Flight-MH370.html
 
[h=1]Mystery as £20,000 cash is withdrawn from accounts of four passengers who went down with doomed Flight MH370[/h]
  • Bank detected mysterious transactions 5 months after flight disappeared
  • Money moved from accounts of 3 passengers into 4th passenger's accounts
  • Police have launched investigation into the claims
  • Search efforts ongoing for doomed flight, underwater search next month


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...four-passengers-went-doomed-Flight-MH370.html


from your link -- this was July 18 /14 at atm at Klang Valley
that was also day after ill fated Malaysian Air was struck down in Ukraine

"According to reports, the transactions were made on July 18 when money from the accounts of three passengers was transferred to the account of a fourth passenger.'"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-went-doomed-Flight-MH370.html#ixzz3AOwX13Oz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
Personally Inmarsats conflict of interest is too great, and combined with the contradictory evidence and analysis by various groups, including Inmarsat and ATSB, I do not believe the ping ring stuff is fact! MH370 can be anywhere within its fuel range.

Welcome maphorn! It is great you joined in the conversation here. There are many great posters and even though I am not one of them, I agree with what you are saying. I sincerely think there is something hinky/bad/whatever about Inmarsats data.
 
from your link -- this was July 18 /14 at atm at Klang Valley
that was also day after ill fated Malaysian Air was struck down in Ukraine

"According to reports, the transactions were made on July 18 when money from the accounts of three passengers was transferred to the account of a fourth passenger.'"

Sounds like an inside job - taking money from 3 accounts - putting it into a 4th account - then withdrawing it at various ATMs in Malaysia. Perhaps money from the accounts of a family who was travelling on MH370 together .....


"According to reports, the transactions were made on July 18 when money from the accounts of three passengers was transferred to the account of a fourth passenger before it was removed.

'We are investigating the case as unauthorised access with intent to commit an offence,' Izany said, according to the Mirror.

'We are getting CCTV footage from the bank to identify the suspects involved.'

A source told the New Straits Times: 'We believe the suspect withdrew the money through the fourth victim's account via several automated teller machines (ATMs) in the Klang Valley.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...four-passengers-went-doomed-Flight-MH370.html
 
Sounds like an inside job - taking money from 3 accounts - putting it into a 4th account - then withdrawing it at various ATMs in Malaysia. Perhaps money from the accounts of a family who was travelling on MH370 together .....




"According to reports, the transactions were made on July 18 when money from the accounts of three passengers was transferred to the account of a fourth passenger before it was removed.

'We are investigating the case as unauthorised access with intent to commit an offence,' Izany said, according to the Mirror.

'We are getting CCTV footage from the bank to identify the suspects involved.'

A source told the New Straits Times: 'We believe the suspect withdrew the money through the fourth victim's account via several automated teller machines (ATMs) in the Klang Valley.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...four-passengers-went-doomed-Flight-MH370.html


it's a 'teaser' for sure.....very few details at this point
 
Well, here ya go .... it was a bank employee and her husband! Horrible crime, taking advantage like that ... looks like the victims were unrelated, and one of the victims was a MAS crew member. The common factor was that they all had accounts with the same bank. :no:


Police have detained a bank officer and her husband over the siphoning off more than RM110,000 from the accounts of four people who were on board Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, which disappeared in March, Bernama reported.

Kuala Lumpur Commercial Crime chief ACP Izany Abd Ghani said the bank officer, who has been working for the bank for 10 years, was arrested at her home in Ampang, Kuala Lumpur, at 4pm yesterday.

Her 33-year-old husband was picked up by police at a workshop in Ampang where he had taken his car for servicing.

"We believe the husband is also involved," Izany was quoted as saying.

The accounts belonged to Hue Pui Heng, 66, and MAS crew member Tan Size Hiang, 46, both Malaysians, and two Chinese nationals – Ju Kun, 32, and Tian Jun Wei, 29.

All four, it was also reported, had accounts with the same international bank.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...-from-four-mh370-victims#sthash.OPgOYFkP.dpuf
 
On our crossing from India in addition to Kates possible sighting we saw a few other unexplained things which at the time seemed nothing out of the ordinary - lights, buoy and unusual shipping movements
http://mapwaveanalysis.com/mapwaves...possible-sighting/mysterious-lights-and-buoy/
THE MOST LIKELY EXPLANATIONS GIVEN TO DATE - were a naval flotilla, a acoustical target or target buoy and a search vessel.

It appears what Kate may have seen was a port engine fire and with the mysterious sealed radar data A POSSIBLE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS COULD BE AS SPECULATED - Unidentified aircraft that is not communicating approaching naval flotilla who defends itself by disabling the aircraft as a further threat, and hence radar data sealed. THIS WOULD NOT BE THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS HAPPENED SO PRECEDENCE HAS BEEN SET.
WHY NOT MAKE IT PUBLIC - Motive? - self interest and preservation through covering up incompetence?

Hi Marc; welcome! Nice to see that you finally made it over!
I've always felt they know more then they are saying. I've never understood how no one has fessed up that they saw the plane on their radar. Same goes for Australia. They were spending so much money to search; yet we had no clue if the plane was seen on radar in the area.

I'm surprised you don't carry some type of camera/ disposable camera. Would be nice to know what the buoy was. Do you have any friends that go out that way?

I found a pic of an orange buoy; how similar was it?
 

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[h=1]Two arrested as €25k siphoned from passengers' bank accounts[/h]
Officials are also looking for a Pakistani man, believed to have been involved somehow as he allegedly received some of the fraudulent money, but his relationship to the couple is still unknown.
http://www.independent.ie/world-new...d-from-passengers-bank-accounts-30511406.html

And other weird MAL news
A Malaysia Airlines cabin crew member has been detained in France over allegations that he sexually assaulted an Australian passenger who was scared of flying with the disaster-prone airline.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysi...-on-australian-passenger-20140814-104aeb.html
 
I've always felt they know more then they are saying. I've never understood how no one has fessed up that they saw the plane on their radar. Same goes for Australia. They were spending so much money to search; yet we had no clue if the plane was seen on radar in the area.

RSBM

I know it is hard for people to understand why countries can keep their radar sightings quiet in this matter (other than perhaps informing those intimately involved in the investigation) ... but it really is a matter of security. If other countries knew how far, wide and accurate a country's radar capabilities are, it could make them very nervous and agitated ... and we don't need agitation, we are floating all on our own down here, primarily surrounded by non-allied countries.

We are already in enough strife for this big whoops ... allegedly listening in on the Indonesian President's phone calls, and his wife's calls .....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/18/australia-tried-to-monitor-indonesian-presidents-phone
 
RSBM

I know it is hard for people to understand why countries can keep their radar sightings quiet in this matter (other than perhaps informing those intimately involved in the investigation) ... but it really is a matter of security. If other countries knew how far, wide and accurate a country's radar capabilities are, it could make them very nervous and agitated ... and we don't need agitation, we are floating all on our own down here, primarily surrounded by non-allied countries.

We are already in enough strife for this big whoops ... allegedly listening in on the Indonesian President's phone calls, and his wife's calls .....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/18/australia-tried-to-monitor-indonesian-presidents-phone

It's just 'research'! Everyone is spying on everyone it seems. I understand matters of security, but we have to remember who is really paying for this darn search.... we the people ultimately (from all over the world) and the secrecy appears to mean no accountability is possible, we just have to trust.
 
MSM http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/New-crowdsourced-data-shows-Phuket-yacht-sighting/30940
"British sailor Katherine Tee, 41, was sailing from Cochin, India to Phuket with her husband
when on March 7 she saw what looked like a plane on fire crossing the night sky, with a plume
of black smoke trailing behind it."
Volunteer members of the public, one of them a flight test engineer who used flight-simulator software, compared
the logged course of Ms Tee’s yacht SY Aaza Dana as it passed south of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands and
cross-correlated it with data from the International Maritime Organization navigation and communications satellite network, Inmarsat.
Inmarsat has already confirmed that according to its data, MH370 flew west over the Andaman and Nicobar Islands before making possibly
two course corrections as it headed south (story here).
The Inmarsat data indicated a final “ping” – or electronic “handshake” – between MH370 and the satellite network
near a “communications arc” at 00:11 UTC that led the massive international search effort to hunt the missing aircraft to deep waters
in the southern Indian Ocean far off the west coast of Australia."
"“[The] flight path (now verified on a 777 simulator), and a visual illustration of elevation angles suggested by an independent
investigator perfectly illustrates what I saw when I was out there,” she said.
"

If MAS 370 had a fire on board and turned south to the Indian Ocean, I would suspect the pilots were disoriented from the smoke and lack of oxygen. It is not known if there was a fire on board. However, it is not unheard of a fire causing an airplane to crash. Swissair Flight 111 had a fire on board. It crashed into the ocean at a depth of 180 feet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_111
 
It's just 'research'! Everyone is spying on everyone it seems. I understand matters of security, but we have to remember who is really paying for this darn search.... we the people ultimately (from all over the world) and the secrecy appears to mean no accountability is possible, we just have to trust.

Yes, sometimes we do have to trust. And, without being gullible, I personally don’t have an issue with that, in this instance. IF something nefarious happened with MH370, there will be a darn good (and scary) reason why we are not being told and a multi-million dollar cover-up is in place.

However, I do not believe a cover up is in place. There are many other ways to cover up .. like .. just not search. Just say "we don’t know where it could have gone .. we've looked in the obvious places, and if we can ever figure it out, we’ll search again".

They have said many times that the locale of the plane is believed to be where they are searching due to Inmarsat and other data .. they just have not revealed all that other data imo. Nor should they have to, if it is a matter of security ... again imo.
 
If MAS 370 had a fire on board and turned south to the Indian Ocean, I would suspect the pilots were disoriented from the smoke and lack of oxygen. It is not known if there was a fire on board. However, it is not unheard of a fire causing an airplane to crash. Swissair Flight 111 had a fire on board. It crashed into the ocean at a depth of 180 feet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_111

Exactly. Which is why I haven't discounted a fire on board theory.
 
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