MO - Grief and protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown

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ben crump just claimed on HLN that there is a young lady who believes she has video of the part of the incident where he has his hands raised and is shot on her cell phone, which police took from her.

first time i have heard it in MSM. will post a link if one becomes available, just heard it myself, rewound it and confirmed. no ambiguity.

Crump cannot be trusted.

its still the first MSM confirmation of what has been a very big rumor throughout all social media, hopefully his mentioning it on the air will lead to it either finally being confirmed or debunked.

He very well could be bluffing in an effort to make LE think long and hard before coming out with their "official" version of events. If LE has it in the back of their mind that he may have something, they may have to keep the facts closer to the truth, if in fact that's how it played out.

Oh good gravy, don't get me started on Crump. He is a snake and will twist everything to cast doubt anywhere he can. He's the kind of person who would suggest a video exists even if it doesn't, and then claim the police are lying and covering it up when they don't produce the imaginary video.

I don't now if there is a video or not, but since it came from Crump, I won't hold my breath. I'll wait until it comes from a reliable source. BTW, yes the claim was posted in MSM, but the source of the claim is still Crump.

Obviously this is all, JMO, but the investigation as a whole would go so much smoother and calmer if he weren't involved.
 
Oh good gravy, don't get me started on Crump. He is a snake and will twist everything to cast doubt anywhere he can. He's the kind of person who would suggest a video exists even if it doesn't, and then claim the police are lying and covering it up when they don't produce the imaginary video.

I don't now if there is a video or not, but since it came from Crump, I won't hold my breath. I'll wait until it comes from a reliable source. BTW, yes the claim was posted in MSM, but the source of the claim is still Crump.

Obviously this is all, JMO, but the investigation as a whole would go so much smoother and calmer if he weren't involved.

just to be clear, the talk of the video did not start from crump. so he is not the source of the claim, he is repeating what has come from the community, whether or not he has any further evidence to support its existence or is just repeating a rumor i have no idea. but he didnt start the fire, so to speak.
 
But to say it is just for entertainment and free stuff is oversimplifying what are probably very complicated issues.

Uhhh....breaking into liquor stores to steal all of the booze you can carry honestly can't be over simplified. Same with looting shoe stores, torching convenience stores, burning people's cars just because they are there unprotected, etc...

It is what it appears to be, even if that truth is "uncomfortable".
 
just to be clear, the talk of the video did not start from crump. so he is not the source of the claim, he is repeating what has come from the community, whether or not he has any further evidence to support its existence or is just repeating a rumor i have no idea. but he didnt start the fire, so to speak.


Yes, the claim came from this woman who allegedly caught the entire encounter on her phone, which LE confiscated..

I don't get why Mr. Crump can't be trusted...I believe he is an upstanding attorney who stands up for civil rights that are violated.
 
^there is that other video i mentioned but wouldnt post and then someone posted it (was that you?) that picks up right after the incident has ended. i still wonder if that isnt the video in question and the rest of the story is just a big mixed up rumor and speculation...
 
Btw, my previous comments about people in the media are not criticism of Al Sharpton as one might expect, today they are mostly against Nancy Grace at this point. I listened to some of her show on Sirus XM driving home from work last night (I don't have cable TV) and she seemed to be trying her best to get people angry, I get that's the point of her show but it's pretty sick when people only care about ratings and not what they are doing or trying to do to your city. How many news agencies would love to have more lootings and burnings and shootings to show on TV?

What has caused so many people to sink to the level of doing these things... Well in my opinion it's a poisonous brew of:

1. Many families without fathers - young men not raised by fathers are known to have anger issues. Heck even young elephants are! When I wrote up my accident reports at the Wal-Mart, I don't think I filled out one where the child had the same last name as the mother.

2. Racism exists and builds up fear and resentment. Those who are not racist are judged by some the same as people who are. Those who have committed no crime are judged by some the same as those who have.

3. A high tolerance of crime in some segments of society. If all these criminals didn't have women who sleep with them and have their babies and mothers who let them live with them, where would they be? If you tolerate selling your food stamps (discussed openly in the Wal-Mart break room as a normal accepted practice), next you tolerate accepting money from stolen goods, next thing you know your house is the one getting robbed, next thing you know your neighborhood is ruled by crime and no one will report anything because they are afraid. And predators have no loyalty to your race as much as you'd like to think they do. "Selling drugs to the brother man instead of the other man" as Public Enemy put it in one of their songs. Their only loyalty is to themselves. One cashier reported to me that a customer tried to get her to put merchandise in his bag without payment as loyalty to her race and she refused. I told her he was not loyal to her - he was a predator on her making her take the risk and she was smart not to fall for it.

4. It's difficult to know what the truth is in any racially charged situation. Occasionally I investigated racial incidents at the Wal-Mart. Sometimes I was able to find witnesses. Once I found that an incident committed by an associate (white) against two customers (black) was witnessed by another associate and her mother and the ugly racial incident was 100% true. It's easy when you're white to assume racism is imagined, especially when some people routinely assume you make decisions based on race when you know you didn't, but sometimes it is not. What happens when the investigator does not want to know the truth or does not want it to come out? When I investigated incidents, I was told to find out the truth and higher ups would deal with the truth whatever it was. That's what I would do anyway, but it was made clear my job was not to cover stuff up in the store's favor. What if your higher ups tell you to cover it up or else?

5. Some people who don't own much don't care what happens to other people's property because they don't know what it's like to really have a stake in anything. If you've been on welfare your whole life, do you have any understanding of what it's like to try to earn your own living the honest way? Or to you are people who try to earn a living the honest way just chumps and people to target? When you work at a store you learn what percentage of the people are on welfare and it's really scary.

6. Toxic pop culture.

7. Fear of having open and honest conversation about why there is an underclass and addressing the real causes for political reasons.

8. People act different in groups than when they are alone, pack mentality gives them license.

Believe me, while working at the Wal-Mart I had hours and hours in which to observe what's going on around me and think about this question. Although there were no riots in the store as bad as what happened recently while I worked there, an associate was trampled during a Black Friday sale once (not injured fortunately) and on many days where the store was really busy the store looked at the end of the day like a riot had taken place even though it was just business as usual. The racks would be askew, half the merchandise on the floor, the parking lot filled with trash, once there was a pile of poop on the floor with a cigarette put out in it, etc. One of my jobs was to lead the crew in cleaning this up every night. When you know there are large numbers of people who you can't really call civilized you know it doesn't take much for things to get out of control. And no I'm not saying all these people are of one race or all people of one race are like this. All societies have their underclass. I guess it's just human nature. I don't think it's smart to concentrate large numbers of people like this in one place, but on the other hand people fear with some reason that it spreads like a cancer.

One thing I tried to do at the Wal-Mart was make everyone feel welcome unless they became unwelcome due to their behavior. Not their appearance or race or age or economic status or anything else. Like my boss told me once about a customer (white) who was kind of a pain in the butt, "She doesn't have much but what she does have she spends here". Once I had a complaint from a customer that someone was playing loud rap music filled with F-words in the electronics dept. So it was my job to shut that down. I got there and the guy playing the CD is exactly what you'd think a gang-banger looks like. Eye patch, cane, tattoos, the whole bit. If he has a problem with me, my only defense is the walkie talkie I carried on which I can ask someone to call 911. I asked him, "Would you mind playing a different CD to test out the equipment? It's making other customers uncomfortable. I'll be glad to open one up for you if we don't have one open." (Wal-Mart didn't sell any CDs with F-words so that was safe). He said sorry and left. I didn't want him to leave if he really wanted to buy something but if he just wanted to make other people nervous it's better if he left. Now how would he have reacted if I had said "Take your G-D cd and get the F out of here". Probably not very well. So if the cop in the Mr. Brown situation really did tell him and his friend to get the F out of the street then I don't think that's a smart thing to do. But I didn't have a gun backing me up and I didn't have to deal with these minor "in your face" actions all day every day for years and years and years. (I was only a manager at the Wal-Mart for about a year and half - a high stress job so I changed professions completely). I really do feel for the police having to deal with people at their worst. I do understand putting on a certain attitude with certain people to keep yourself from getting killed. What would have happened if the police officer had said "I don't want you to get hit by a car - please get on the sidewalk" and then escalate only if necessary. I'm not saying this didn't happen. But if it did start out this way and it escalated anyway, what hope is there to have a peaceful society? Have you ever tried to drive at night in certain parts of the city when people prefer to be in the street? If you're not from a big city you probably don't know what that's like. If you hit one of these people by accident, you know what will happen.
 
per CNN: police chief says officer claims he was hit in face, face was swollen in some way, officer is horrified by the situation. still not releasing name. name will not be released until formal charges are brought.
 
The officer drove forward but stopped and backed up, almost hitting the pair, Johnson said.

"We were so close, almost inches away, that when he tried to open his door aggressively, the door ricocheted both off me and Big Mike's body and closed back on the officer," Johnson said.

Still in his car, the officer then grabbed Brown by his neck, Johnson said. Brown tried to pull away, but the officer kept pulling Brown toward him, he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/missouri-ferguson-michael-brown-what-we-know/index.html


I still believe LE are in cover up mode.

This officer was pissed from the start, get on the f'king sidewalk...

Why did walking in the street anger this officer so much. Then as she flung his door opened, it flung back onto him. I don't for one second believe Mike Brown caused that physically...it was what the officer did that caused his own injury and get him incensed enough to get out of his vehicle and empty his weapon into Mike Brown..all my belief
 
without more details the struck in face thing does not really help us come to any conclusions, we know there was some sort of altercation at close quarters, it is just the context of that altercation that is unclear. so its not surprising that he may have been struck in the face somehow and it could have happened in either of the scenarios presented so far.
 
Uhhh....breaking into liquor stores to steal all of the booze you can carry honestly can't be over simplified. Same with looting shoe stores, torching convenience stores, burning people's cars just because they are there unprotected, etc...

It is what it appears to be, even if that truth is "uncomfortable".

We can agree to disagree on whether or not there are issues there that lead to people committing crimes of the sort. I don't want to be put into a position where it sounds like I am defending rioters and looters, because I am not.
 
^there is that other video i mentioned but wouldnt post and then someone posted it (was that you?) that picks up right after the incident has ended. i still wonder if that isnt the video in question and the rest of the story is just a big mixed up rumor and speculation...

I was thinking the same thing, that that is the video Crump is talking about. It also seems like there may be more to that video that was cut off at the beginning, though I guess it's possible she turned the video on in mid sentence. I'd be curious to know if there is more to it.
 
i also see in one of those pictures what looks like an ordinary citizen walking down the street in perfectly normal attire, and he is having several automatic weapons pointed at him by what looks like a very militarized police squad.

in my opinion when i see that picture i dont think "hmmm what context can i put this picture in that makes it seem appropriate", i think "wow i sure hope that person is a bonafide suspect in a serious crime to have those kinds of weapons pointed at him walking down the street in the middle of the day in america"...
 
I would like to add to my previous comments about certain segments of society that tolerate crime - I don't only hold the "underclass" accountable for this. I used to publish a 'zine in the 1990s and I would come out against illegal drugs and got hate mail for it of course. There are lots of middle class and upper class people who do drugs and I hold them accountable also. Those drugs you take have a trail of suffering behind them that you'll never see in your gated community where you can retreat while the rest of us have to deal with the fallout.
 

The one note I would make is that the picture comparing Ferguson to Birmingham, the military had their dogs out and in the face of the peaceful demonstrators and that's when that picture was taken. It was taken well before any rioting and looting began. Those demonstrations were peaceful on Saturday multiple times, Sunday multiple times, Monday multiple times and Tuesday multiple times. I think that those images taken at a peaceful demonstration further enraged those who only come out after dark to riot and loot. Once you have rioting and looting...absolutely...call out the dogs and bring in the tanks.
 
hmmm in my opinion that would be a strange context to put those pictures in, i dont see anyone in those pictures that is looting, rioting, or being violent... in my opinion.

The reason why the officers are in the streets is because of un peaceful demonstrations, rioting, looting, burning, shooting. In the black and white photo all I see is officers on the street with dogs, the people on the side (hands in air) are protestors. That's the way they protest.
 
hmmm in my opinion that would be a strange context to put those pictures in, i dont see anyone in those pictures that is looting, rioting, or being violent... in my opinion.

This is very true. At least the picture with the dog was taken well before any looting and rioting even began for the first time. That was taken at a time when there had been nothing but multiple peaceful demonstrations. The picture with the lady and the riot cops coming at her...I'll be honest...I'm not convinced it is from Ferguson. There have been a lot of people putting up false information/pictures in order incite people. I know there was a picture of the KKK that was asserted to be in Ferguson but it turned out it was a picture from another state at another time. I'll take another look at it and see if I can at least pick out something that identifies the location maybe.
 
There is nothing wrong with peacefully protesting.
There is also nothing wrong with being prepared if the peaceful nature of the protest goes downhill.

I feel like people are saying "People rioted BECAUSE the police were out in full tactical force." To me, that is not excusable. I'm on the side of peaceful protesting, but I can't really expect the police NOT to be prepared for the worst. JMO.
 
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