VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #6

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jacy said:
I don't understand why someone would text vs CALL in crisis. Oh, how I wish I could undo this for Hannah.
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At the risk of being called a misogynist, people don't make the most practical decisions after they've consumed alcoholic beverages.
 
Unless you're poor and black.

I am a middle aged white woman who lives in Central VA, too, and who happens to teach the kids who I just described. I would never have believed it,myself, except that I have seen it far more often than I care to count. It's very, very real. Even here.

I Must Break You said:
Following this a bit, since I live in Harrisonburg which is about an hour away from C'ville. I just needed to add that I have seen many people here comment about race relations in this area, all in a negative light. I was born and raised here and lived most of my 33 years locally (even a few years in LE) except for about a decade globe trotting in the military, along with living for a bit in New York and LA. Let me just say the race relations here are no where near what many on here are making them out to be. In fact in the above two mentioned cities race relations are infinitely worse, then anywhere around here. Many people think south and automatically their mind goes to Selma, Alabama circa 1960s, that is not here. And yes I know many minorities, heck my wife is a minority and I have rarely if ever heard them complain or even mention race relations around here. Just a putting it out, some on here are really blowing that possible aspect of this case way out of proportion.
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Claudia said:
This makes me so sad. This is the first we've heard about the other texts. She asked her friends to come find her. Poor girl. :(
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Agreed. I wonder how the WP got this information, as to my knowledge it hasn't been released. But she'd used Safe Ride before, according to her FB (someone posted, I've not seen it). She could have called them. In regards to her behavior on video - I think she's looking not for alcohol but for a dealer. Perhaps she found him on the mall. UVA is a party school, have no doubt. My big fear though is that this thing is a whole lot bigger than anyone yet imagines. The scenarios of the other two women seen in the video being part of a plan aren't, to me, impossibilities. Morgan Harrington's killer was linked to a 2005 Fairfax rape/abduction/assault. RT maintains his innocence for murder but claims he has more info about where Alexis currently is (cornrow guy was absolved, dreadlock guy, to my knowledge, was never found but ID'ed by a witness in this same area of the mall with the two of them, and a burgundy car). Samantha has never been found, linked to RT. The Bloods just moved in when these things picked up in earnest (just after the 1990's 29 stalker seemed to quiet down) and those who murdered the police officer Kevin Quick lived right down the street from POI. The description I've heard of POI from one who works at the hospital is that people say he's a player (so, yes, that's 3rd hand info - take it as you will). It's really getting concerning. Virginia ranks 7th in the nation for sex trafficking. LE knows they can't botch this one.
 
Macpad said:
Been lurking here from the beginning. Excellent reasoning and sleuthing going on. Wanted to return to HG's intent for a moment. To do that I'm using the McGrady's video from the Cavalier Daily. It is zoomed out to the original frame size and gives a more overall view of what's happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy43pVr2Ixw

My belief is HG wasn't lost at all. Drunk yes, but not lost.

McGrady's is located on the front of a two block square and Grady's Ave. (which is right next to McGrady's Irish Pub) and is a dead end street. HG only showed up on the Shell video once going toward the downtown mall. Therefore she likely emerged onto Preston from either 8th, 7th or Albemarle St. and then turned to go toward McGrady's.

McGrady's Pub has no adjoined parking lot therefore patrons park in the neighborhood surrounding it. If HG came down 8th St. she would have already scanned the cars parked down that street.

HG comes into view on the McGrady's CCTV video and walks to the front corner of the outside patio at :56 in the video. She stops and scans the area around her. She then walks to the other corner at 1:10 of the video and pauses again. She then exits the video and is gone until 2:56 in the video.

My belief is she has continued walking up to 10th St. and around the corner to further scan for cars parked nearby. At 1:35 in the video we see I male standing just outside the outdoor patio seating area. He appears to be a bouncer to me. At 2:56 when HG rounds the corner back at McGrady's the male immediately strolls to the meet her at the top of the ramp HG is walking up. They meet at 3:08 in the video and she passing him very quickly and he returns to the place where he was standing.

HG, in my mind, has cased McGrady's for a car she is familiar with. Why go up the ramp? She can get a better view if someone she is looking for is on the outdoor patio and also ask the bouncer "Hey have you seen ____?"

At 3:36 in the video HG crosses Grady Ave. and pauses one last time to look up Grady Ave. at the parked cars. Not finding what she's looking for she continues on.

Her next destination is the downtown mall. Think of that feeling you've had sometime in your life that you're missing the party, the fun. Thus to close the distance she runs for a while and that's what's caught on the Shell video footage.
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THIS. I'm familiar with that area as well, and the way she appears and reappears strikes me that she was checking out the cars looking for someone who was specifically supposed to be in the area.

I hope LE has checked the Tinder app, or other similar ones, to see if she had an account. I don't buy that she was lost and simply walking the wrong direction; she had plenty of opportunity to stop at businesses or ask someone for directions.
 
The refocus is a woman one half block from HG's apartment was beaten unconscious and raped.
 
lateott said:
Honestly no two news or LE sources have provided consistent descriptions of the texts, or released them in totality for that matter. The WaPost link above is old and has the info out of sequence.

As to the alcohol "off" SHE wasn't buying, but LJ told his grandmother he bought her alcohol. Are you saying that is impossible?
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No, it's that LJM would not have been buying alcohol to take off premises at that hour, so that debunks the theory that maybe she was having him buy her a bottle of something to take to a party. After midnight, you can drink on premises, but not carry it with you.

Edit: Nevermind! Already explained above.
 
PresleySyndrome said:
Also: JMO but race relations with LE is a problem everywhere if you are African American. Just saying.
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Yes... I also think that if JM has a distrust for LE it could also be influenced by the fact that it seems his father has a criminal record more serious than traffic violations. We tend to always see our parents as super heroes (especially as kids), and if you were raised with a parent who had significant interaction with the police, you may be more inclined to see LE as 'the bad guys' rather than someone to trust.

I don't know if any of this applies to JM.. I am completely generalizing. I will say that mistrust of LE is certainly passed down generation to generation just by the familial attitude toward LE that a person grows up with.
 
shadetree44 said:
No one knows if he is talking or not. He may have given LE all he can. LE is not going to disclose anything that may endanger its case. I'm sure LE is all over this, but I'm also sure they are not giving the public all they have for obvious reasons. Has anyone thought that JM may be a smoke screen. LE may also be looking at other POI's and as long as the trend appears to have everyone looking at JM, they will continue with their investigation. There are questions in my mine as to some of the data related to this case. Peace.
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I dont know why it just hit me but some years ago there was talk about a medical /student or doctor serial killer in the western part of virginia ,and tennesse .. If anyone remembers that please point out the thread here on WS.
 
Dixie811 said:
It is my opinion that Longo implied at the presser yesterday that JM is under surveillance and they know where he is always.

He did not say that outright.

Perhaps other posters have a differing opinion.
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the other detective said they were watching him.
 
Well I can't speak for either of those places, all I can do is relate my experiences in Harrisonburg and a lot in Charlottesville since I spent a lot of time there as well and I have never seen much racism in either place. As I said I saw much more in places up north and out west.
 
You guys are insane to think that LE would essentially identify the POI in the media -- going so far as to give the media all of the information they needed to identify him and daring the public to do so -- without having significant probable case to back up their suspicions. If they are for some reason using the POI as a ruse to make another suspect (WG, for instance) comfortable in hopes that that person would slip up, they are opening themselves up to massive civil liability (defamation!) and malpractice charges.

Not saying that WG or any other person is innocent, or that POI is guilty, but that LE certainly has consulted their legal counsel to determine that they are not opening themselves up to liability in this way.
 
MLE said:
At the risk of being called a misogynist, people don't make the most practical decisions after they've consumed alcoholic beverages.
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I resemble that remark (back in the day!) I think it's also a modern mindset. I've found myself repeatedly texting my husband when he's really late and then realizing I could call directly. She possibly thought she would ultimately end up at her destination so the texting was backup. idk
 
ellel said:
THIS. I'm familiar with that area as well, and the way she appears and reappears strikes me that she was checking out the cars looking for someone who was specifically supposed to be in the area.

I hope LE has checked the Tinder app, or other similar ones, to see if she had an account. I don't buy that she was lost and simply walking the wrong direction; she had plenty of opportunity to stop at businesses or ask someone for directions.
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I would not go have drinks with a stranger if I were lost.
how could she not recognize she was going the wrong way down Preston after Grady's? how disoriented was she and why?
 
cvillehoo2 said:
I'm new to WS and this is my first comment. I work at the hospital where POI works and know people who have trained him and worked closely with him. He used to work in patient transportation but now works in the OR's as a person who helps to move patients in the OR and help position pt's for surgery. He would potentially have access to drugs in the OR's- not super easily but it would be possible. I really only had peripheral contact with him but found him to be polite and not inappropriate although I have heard that the way he looked a women made some of the other male techs uncomfortable- they thought it was over the top for work I think. Also, I know at least one woman who has worked near/around him found him to be creepy in that he was sort of seemingly unaware of personal space and boundaries. Not sure that that is really incriminating though. Haven't heard that he didn't show up for work as scheduled except for on Friday when they executed the search warrant at his apartment.
I agree that the story doesn't make sense. I have also heard he has/had a long-term girlfriend and seemed to have gotten his life relatively together- was volunteering as an assistant coach for the football team at a local Christian school and had a good job, having worked his way up a bit. The video shows his behavior to be suspicious though and if his motives were good he would have tried in some way to help HG and would be willing to discuss that with police. His behavior that night and his public persona do not match, which gives me the creeps. If he was really who he portrays himself to be publicly and did not do her harm, he would have come forward to help. This leads me to believe that he is not who he seems to be outwardly.
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as many people have stated MANY times, many people mistrust LE, and for good reason. there isn't a great track record with how LE treats minorities in particular.
 
Macpad said:
The refocus is a woman one half block from HG's apartment was beaten unconscious and raped.
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This fact is troubling to me, that two violent sexual assaults occurred in close proximity to HG's apartment, this may be unrelated but someone is escalating fast!
 
I knew a college age lady who I took to dinner(no drinks or drugs) and we returned to a parking structure to go to her car .I drove us all through the structure to find her car. Some people are much better than others at directions.
 
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