Cell Phones and LISK

Whether he was a repeat customer or not, what possible reason could he give that would convince the women to leave their phones at home? It's an extremely suspicious request, and I can't think of any convincing rationales aside from the presence of VIPs.

Aleph said:

Whether he was a repeat customer or not, what possible reason could he give that would convince the women to leave their phones at home? It's an extremely suspicious request, and I can't think of any convincing rationales aside from the presence of VIPs.

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The only other reason I could think of is money. If I'm not mistaken the GB4 we all down and out. Amber Costello was offered $1500?

But I don't know if that alone would of been sufficient to get them to leave their phones behind.

Personally I could see a scenario where the perp offered the women both money and an opportunity to hob knob with VIPs. Maybe the perp told the women that cell phones weren't allowed due to security reasons. This scenario could work whether the perp is socially capable like what you propose or socially inept like what I propose.

I think the VIP angle is a really good idea, Aleph.

Dwntwnslim said:

The only other reason I could think of is money. If I'm not mistaken the GB4 we all down and out. Amber Costello was offered $1500?

But I don't know if that alone would of been sufficient to get them to leave their phones behind.

Personally I could see a scenario where the perp offered the women both money and an opportunity to hob knob with VIPs. Maybe the perp told the women that cell phones weren't allowed due to security reasons. This scenario could work whether the perp is socially capable like what you propose or socially inept like what I propose.

I think the VIP angle is a really good idea, Aleph.

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Several of the family members noted that their sisters told them that their clients were "important" people, docs, lawyers, judges, LE, etc.
There is definitely something there re: the VIP angle.

The only logical excuse I can think of for instructing the girls to leave cell phones behind is because cell phones these days are synonymous with cameras and/or video. My husband has commented several times that he thinks these crimes have an Eyes Wide Shut element to them. I've never seen the movie myself, but Hubby's comments did get me thinking about the possibility that these girls were courted for awhile, and then offered big bucks to do a "party". Perhaps our guy had no issues with the girls bringing their phones on these courting "dates", but instructed them not to bring their phones to the "party", because the clientel would freak out about the possibility of leaked photos/videos.

That's honestly all I can come up with on the phones being left behind. And admittedly, it's not much.

ETA: I'm not saying there WAS an actual "party", mind you. Just suggesting that perhaps this is what LISK told the girls.

Mountain_Kat said:

The only logical excuse I can think of for instructing the girls to leave cell phones behind is because cell phones these days are synonymous with cameras and/or video. My husband has commented several times that he thinks these crimes have an Eyes Wide Shut element to them. I've never seen the movie myself, but Hubby's comments did get me thinking about the possibility that these girls were courted for awhile, and then offered big bucks to do a "party". Perhaps our guy had no issues with the girls bringing their phones on these courting "dates", but instructed them not to bring their phones to the "party", because the clientel would freak out about the possibility of leaked photos/videos.

That's honestly all I can come up with on the phones being left behind. And admittedly, it's not much.

ETA: I'm not saying there WAS an actual "party", mind you. Just suggesting
that perhaps this is what LISK told the girls.

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Yes, that's exactly what I'm thinking. Some kind of VIP sex or drug party.

He could be using the "Leave your phone at home so you can relax and not worry about answering the phone." or "I (the client) am such an important person that I cannot risk being photographed; you have to leave your phone at home but you will be fairly compensated since I am such an important person." or "We are going to spending the night at my beach house and I do not want you taking pictures with your phone"

All BS; we know that....but those poor girls did not.

Speaking as someone who has experiece with addiction (Some of my friends got hooked on prescription painkillers and alcoholism runs in my family); your brain is not firing properly and you make decisions that you would not normally make. These girls could be hooked on dope or something. Therefore their judgment will be clouded.

I think that the main reason a prostitute would leave her only life line (her phone) behind is an offer of an extremley large amount of money. Their whole business is about money & they do some pretty nasty things for money, as they say everyone has their price. I think they were offered & offered more until they couldnt resist.
(also I dont mean this comment to be degrading to these poor victims, its just the nature of the business there in).

Phew. I read everything written on this case at WS, but forgive me if I haven't quite gotten fluent in the case just yet. As for me, I grew up in the Bronx, spent many many summer days at the beach in LI and my parents have lived in the North Fork for many years now, so I am somewhat familiar with Manorville and the Pine Barrens.

I have no actual profile/theory but a couple of things are starting to gel with me. I find it most useful to spend most attention to the GB4 for now, since those are the only victims that I am reasonably certain are related. Not saying none of the others are, just that I am less certain.

One pattern that immediately jumps out at me is that there was a shift in pattern after the first 2, which also corresponds with the time that SG went missing.

The first two, MBB and MB were taken from or last seen in the city. (2007 and 2009) Presumably both were transported to LI by the killer. Both victims had cell phones that were retained by the killer and used for awhile after. I think both victims' cell phones also had evidence that the phone was in the vicinity of Gilgo, or Massapequa (which would be the cell tower used from Gilgo I have read).

Then in spring of 2010, SG goes missing fröm OB.

The next two victims (ALC and MW) are last seen in LI. Neither has a cell phone upon her person.

I think that something did change between the first two, and the last two GB4 cases. One theory is that the killer was a commuter to the city until 2010 and switched to finding victims locally for convenience after he no longer had to travel there for work. There are numerous other ways to explain the differences. But I am leaning heavily towards saying that the brouhaha in OB the night SG went missing may have directly influenced the pattern of the killer, making him change a few details. I don't think personally that SG was killed by the same killer as the GB4, but I am leaning towards thinking the GB4 killer was aware of what took place on OB that night.


And to this day, no one has mentioned a reason that makes any sense at all of why CPH inserted himself into the case by calling SG's family. And presumably to say something along the lines of "she was here, and she is alive but not any longer here" (and a possible unspoken meaning of "there is no sense in coming here to look for her"). But this is just too bizarre to contemplate, so I tend to discount it...

PHONES

Fact: Megan's phone was in the room

1) When police searched the hotel room they found Waterman's makeup, clothing, cell phone and other belongings, Ela said.
Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-mega...s-near-li-beach-mother-submits-dna-to-police/
2) (Not saying phone but clearly she left her stuff behind) She left the hotel around 1:30 a.m. on June 6 without a wallet, money or identification, police said.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704828104576021953580016630



Fact: Megan's phone wasn't in the room
1) Vybe called the next morning. “I’ve been to the hotel, she’s not there, her phone’s not there, nothing’s there.”
2) “Megan’s [phone] hasn’t been found, neither,” said Lorraine.
Source: Lost Girls, Robert Kolker

What's the fact about Megan's phone?

To me; Megan's phone was in the room. Probably plugged to the charger.

On 11 and 13 December 2010, police finds the first four bodies.

1. Amber uses Dave Schaller’s phone.

2. Schaller adamantly claims she left home without a phone.

3. After her body is found detectives show up at Dave Schaller’s door, Dave says; “You guys found Amber”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_SEs4K4kRs

4. Kim Overstreet says,
“Someone calls me. They were like have you heard from Amber...”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToK5cgxc2d4

Maureen, Melissa and Megan have missing person reports filed for them. But we know that there were no reports filed for Amber. So, how did the police ID Amber?

1. It is clear that there was “a piece of information” found with Amber’s body, that enabled the identification.

2. Whatever that information is, it doesn’t lead them to Kim Overstreet but it takes them to Schaller. In other words looking at that “piece of information” they can not ID Amber Costello, but they can ID Dave Schaller.

So, what is that piece of information?

It is of course Dave Schaller’s phone.

It's possible that it was Schaller's phone, but I think it's more likely it was something that linked her to her/Schaller's home address.

The "Someone" who called Kim was big Al G, according to Kolker's Lost Girls. He's an interesting character. He's been quite the man about town in the past and seemed to enjoy getting his picture taken with as many young women in the "entertainment business" (I'm using that term both in the legitimate and perhaps euphemistically sense) but he's since deleted his once very active facebook profile. The wayback machine turns up some cached versions. He's worked as a talent agent in the past, his company was "Talent Production Associates inc." in NYC. There's been a couple of older postings online accusing him of having been arrested for rape, but I could not find any verification of this when searching records, so it's possible someone was trying to smear him and the accusations that he was arrested are not true.

This is a link to Ripoff Report making similar accusations with a rebuttal from his company (mods please remove if it's not allowable to link to this site: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Al-Gu...specting-models-and-entertainers-into-s-79697 )

Here's a link to an interview with him from way back in 1993 on "Inside New York with Stu Wechsler" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whSTRwU_sjg

It's probably worth watching just to get a sense of the talent agent scene (especially agents who appear to only want to represent young women) in the greater NYC area since the possibility that the women could have been linked to a modeling or talent agency has come up a few times, although I don't think anyone has actually found a connection. A comment on the video leads one to believe he's recently deceased but I dug around for a few hours and never was able to pull up an obit for him.

edited to add: the video is *really* worth watching since it mentions agents finding women at "model parties".

marble said:

It's possible that it was Schaller's phone

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That's what I'm saying.

Before the bodies discovered, i.e. case breaks out, Megan's phone is in the room. After the bodies are found phone is gone. How come?

Same Loraine Ela who said her phone was in the room during the time Megan is a missing person, later says Megan's phone is not recovered. Who feeds those contradicting pieces of information to Ela? What I think is the first thing she heard is true. Megan's phone is found in the room. LE then changes mind and it becomes No Phone.

Is Dave Schaller a pimp? Maybe not a professional one, but technically he is. So, question is why isn't he charged for pimping?

Maybe it's got something to do with his "Mysterious John" testimony?

Is John Terry a pimp? Yes. By all means. Question is why isn't he charged for pimping?
Maybe it's got something to do with his "White Guy" testimony?

I can speculate a lot, but let me cut it here and get ready for the next move.


Who is the Asian Male?

I believe I found him and I believe there are a number of members in this forum who can find the same person.

Who's up for it?

marble said:

It's possible that it was Schaller's phone, but I think it's more likely it was something that linked her to her/Schaller's home address.

The "Someone" who called Kim was big Al G, according to Kolker's Lost Girls. He's an interesting character. He's been quite the man about town in the past and seemed to enjoy getting his picture taken with as many young women in the "entertainment business" (I'm using that term both in the legitimate and perhaps euphemistically sense) but he's since deleted his once very active facebook profile. The wayback machine turns up some cached versions. He's worked as a talent agent in the past, his company was "Talent Production Associates inc." in NYC. There's been a couple of older postings online accusing him of having been arrested for rape, but I could not find any verification of this when searching records, so it's possible someone was trying to smear him and the accusations that he was arrested are not true.

This is a link to Ripoff Report making similar accusations with a rebuttal from his company (mods please remove if it's not allowable to link to this site: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Al-Gu...specting-models-and-entertainers-into-s-79697 )

Here's a link to an interview with him from way back in 1993 on "Inside New York with Stu Wechsler" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whSTRwU_sjg

It's probably worth watching just to get a sense of the talent agent scene (especially agents who appear to only want to represent young women) in the greater NYC area since the possibility that the women could have been linked to a modeling or talent agency has come up a few times, although I don't think anyone has actually found a connection. A comment on the video leads one to believe he's recently deceased but I dug around for a few hours and never was able to pull up an obit for him.

edited to add: the video is *really* worth watching since it mentions agents finding women at "model parties".

Click to expand...

Dave Schaller told me back in November of 2013 that
Her address on her welfare case Medicaid was Schaller's so they put two and two together

Emre E said:

That's what I'm saying.

Before the bodies discovered, i.e. case breaks out, Megan's phone is in the room. After the bodies are found phone is gone. How come?

Same Loraine Ela who said her phone was in the room during the time Megan is a missing person, later says Megan's phone is not recovered. Who feeds those contradicting pieces of information to Ela? What I think is the first thing she heard is true. Megan's phone is found in the room. LE then changes mind and it becomes No Phone.

Is Dave Schaller a pimp? Maybe not a professional one, but technically he is. So, question is why isn't he charged for pimping?

Maybe it's got something to do with his "Mysterious John" testimony?

Is John Terry a pimp? Yes. By all means. Question is why isn't he charged for pimping?
Maybe it's got something to do with his "White Guy" testimony?

I can speculate a lot, but let me cut it here and get ready for the next move.


Who is the Asian Male?

I believe I found him and I believe there are a number of members in this forum who can find the same person.

Who's up for it?

Click to expand...

Knowing that someone is or might be a pimp is one thing, but proving it is quite another.

Just finished a book by FBI profiler John Douglas. He says the MO is how the crime is committed. MO can change over the years. He says that signature does not typically change over time. He also says that the signature tells us about why the crime is
committed or essentially what the killer gets out of the crime. So what is the LISK's signature?another interesting thing is that Douglas is from long island and as far as I know he has never commented on this case.

mysteryattic said:

Just finished a book by FBI profiler John Douglas. He says the MO is how the crime is committed. MO can change over the years. He says that signature does not typically change over time. He also says that the signature tells us about why the crime is
committed or essentially what the killer gets out of the crime. So what is the LISK's signature?another interesting thing is that Douglas is from long island and as far as I know he has never commented on this case.

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I've always felt these girls cell phones where part of his signature. Not sure if that's what you'd technically call a signature but its always stuck out to me the most. He seems like he likes to explore or wants to know about that part or side of their lives. But then again he might just be double checking his tracks. If so then that's where I think we will find him.

Phones as a signature...the idea got me thinking. Phones are very different. I'm fluent with my own iPhone but my husband has some kind of Droid and I struggle whenever I try to use it. Then there's miscellaneous other phones of different vintages. You don't have to be a genius to figure out how someone else's phone works but you'd have to be comfortable in that world, especially if you have reason to believe that LE is tracking the device. To me this points to someone younger or techier than your average bear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aleph said:

Phones as a signature...the idea got me thinking. Phones are very different. I'm fluent with my own iPhone but my husband has some kind of Droid and I struggle whenever I try to use it. Then there's miscellaneous other phones of different vintages. You don't have to be a genius to figure out how someone else's phone works but you'd have to be comfortable in that world, especially if you have reason to believe that LE is tracking the device. To me this points to someone younger or techier than your average bear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I completely agree. I've always felt like maybe arouns 29-34ish

mysteryattic said:

Just dug up this profile from John Kelly. I have read it several times before but in an effort to get some discussion going, i thought i would post it. Three things stand out to me. First, the apparent obsession with cell phones. Secondly, all the known victims were out of towners . Thirdly, that the killer is very auditory i.e. a smooth talker, likes to talk on the phone.
http://www.stalkinc.com/profile6.html

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i wish i could get Delong to give some insight--I reached out to her 2X---She stated since hse hadn't seen the crime scene photos, talked to l.e. etc she wasn't comfy participating--i was like hey i am not asking for you to pick someone, but give some insight based on what's out in the media like some others have---unless she has a camera to speak into with a large audience, she isn't interested---safarik declined comment on my only attempt at reaching out

PHONE MEASURE LISK TAKES

LISK Crew indeed take a measure about the phone of the victim. But it's not the "Don't bring your phone" nonsense as SCPD puts forward to mud up the water. LISK Crew turns the phones off.

I believe there are other cases related with LISK Crew

Rashawn Brazell - Phone is turned off
Maureen Brainard Barnes - Phone is turned off
Eve Eskin Brown - Phone is turned off
Thalia Stathis - Phone is turned off

New Jersey put HUGUES FRANCOIS behind bars for murdering Thalia Stathis.

Now read carefully:
According to telephone records, Thalia's last outgoing call was made to defendant's telephone at 1:56 a.m. on the morning of September 14. The last time Thalia's cellphone was active was at 2:51 a.m. that morning, when an incoming call from defendant's (Francois) phone was forwarded to voicemail.


So, according to Bergen County prosecutors, Francois turned Thalia's phone off and he's calling her with his right hand just to be forwarded to voicemail, while his left hand is beating Thalia...

I bet real money that Hugues Francois is innocent. The litigation is an embarrasment for criminal justice history.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...t-your-Theory-Profile&p=10954591#post10954591

Emre E said:

PHONE MEASURE LISK TAKES

LISK Crew indeed take a measure about the phone of the victim. But it's not the "Don't bring your phone" nonsense as SCPD puts forward to mud up the water. LISK Crew turns the phones off.

I believe there are other cases related with LISK Crew

Rashawn Brazell - Phone is turned off
Maureen Brainard Barnes - Phone is turned off
Eve Eskin Brown - Phone is turned off
Thalia Stathis - Phone is turned off

New Jersey put HUGUES FRANCOIS behind bars for murdering Thalia Stathis.

Now read carefully:
According to telephone records, Thalia's last outgoing call was made to defendant's telephone at 1:56 a.m. on the morning of September 14. The last time Thalia's cellphone was active was at 2:51 a.m. that morning, when an incoming call from defendant's (Francois) phone was forwarded to voicemail.


So, according to Bergen County prosecutors, Francois turned Thalia's phone off and he's calling her with his right hand just to be forwarded to voicemail, while his left hand is beating Thalia...

I bet real money that Hugues Francois is innocent. The litigation is an embarrasment for criminal justice history.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...t-your-Theory-Profile&p=10954591#post10954591

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I don't really understand why the above post should be moved to here.

I believe there are too many threads in LISK forum. 7 pages of threads.

The Asian Male has two threads for him. There's a thread called " I wonder - will they do any searches in the Sound itself?" Why is a simple question posted on its own thread?

With so many threads it's so hard to follow the case. And most of the threads are really unnecessary.
The above post was in the Theory Thread. I believe it's a perfect place for general discussion and the idea put forward is part of a theory after all.

Can you please move it back?