Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #17

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Is it likely the drag marks are related to the crime? Sure. Probably more likely than less.

Does anyone here know for sure? Nope. Can anyone say it's 100% for sure evidence? Nope.

It's not a fact the drag marks are anything suspicious at all, and if we are only going on the facts, then...

The fact is that on the morning that the bloody crime scene was discovered, there were dark liquid stains spanning 25 feet along the side of the house to the driveway. That's a fact. Do we know what that substance is? No, but police do. Is it part of the crime scene? Perhaps the silly policemen placed crime scene markers identifying a 25 foot long recently cleaned up kool-aid spill.

The three victims, one of whom was 6'2" and a couple of hundred pounds, were removed from the bloody crime scene. Perhaps they were taken out through the patio door, onto the deck, and a section of the fence was removed (and rebuilt) in the middle of the night. The bodies were heaved over the deck railing into something, but it wasn't the back of a pick up truck, because we don't know that the pick up truck is even related to the murders. It might have been a U-Haul, or a little yellow car - perhaps a Car2go.
 
I have a feeling, that before marking with a crime scene number, swabs were taken to determine whether it Azerbaijan blood - a very quick field test. From my understanding, forensics don't just mark every potential piece of evidence - only if it is determined to be relevant.

lol... now the Azerbaijanians are involved. So many twists and turns.

Thanks for the info. It's likely the drag marks are crime related. The point was, that until the trial, to state it as fact is actually pure speculation.
 
lol... now the Azerbaijanians are involved. So many twists and turns.

Thanks for the info. It's likely the drag marks are crime related. The point was, that until the trial, to state it as fact is actually pure speculation.
LoL. New phone hasn't figured out my lingo. So much for smart phones - they make us dumb.
 
lol... now the Azerbaijanians are involved. So many twists and turns.

Thanks for the info. It's likely the drag marks are crime related. The point was, that until the trial, to state it as fact is actually pure speculation.

It's not speculation. It's looking at the facts and drawing conclusions. It's inductive logic, rather than deductive logic, but it's still logic.
 
"Perhaps the accused rented a U-Haul, but there's no evidence of that."

Do you mean to say, "LE has not shared with the public whether there is evidence of DG renting a U-Haul, but since they haven't, I suspect there is none"?

"The evidence is that the green truck belonging to the accused it critically important to the investigation into the three missing and murdered persons."

Do you mean to say, "LE suspect that the green truck shown 'several times' on CCTV during the critical time period, is the same truck found at DG's residence, and it seems to me that it is critically important to the investigation"?

"The question was whether the victims were seen by anyone after they were murdered at the Parkhill house."

I believe the question was, "is there a link stating that the murdered bodies were seen in the back of the pickup truck, as you had stated that as a fact a few posts ago.

Further, contrary to what was stated as fact, there have been multiple reports to LE, reported by MSM, of the trio being seen ALIVE, as well as reports from the public on other forums.

"Perhaps I should have said ... it's very likely that the only time they were seen was in the back of the pickup truck, or that in my opinion the only place they were seen was in the back of a pickup truck."

Yes, thank you, that would be playing by the rules of this forum. It is confusing to me, and I'm sure others, when statements are presented as fact when they are merely opinion. I believe we are to use 'IMOO', or 'MOO', or 'IMHO', etc.

"Regardless, they were not seen by anyone after they were murdered at the Parkhill house"

Do you have a link showing the trio was murdered at the Parkhill house?

Police are still searching for the bodies.

Again, we don't know exactly what LE were (possibly still are, but there do not seem to be any MSM reports lately which indicate that to be true) searching for. Some suggest, in their opinions, there are no bodies remaining to be found. LE has stated that public search teams would be ineffective since 'they don't know what they're looking for'. It would be assumed that the public would know to look for 'bodies', so that is an odd statement for LE to have made if they were searching for bodies.
"If there was nothing in that truck that interested police, they wouldn't have been so interested in that truck. They would have been pursuing every single vehicle that was seen in surveillance video ... but they weren't. They were only interested in the pickup truck."

I had read the MSM articles regarding the green truck seen in the video, and I believe it clearly stated that LE's interest in the truck was because it had been seen 'several times' in the vicinity during the critical time period. Did you read that LE saw the bodies in the back of the truck? If so, please provide a link.

Your statement above actually scares me, because that is exactly the type of thing I fear in that it is possible that LE could be focussing on one thing, perhaps with blinders to additional things that also could have been pursued.

"Furthermore, the angle of the camera gives a clear view into the back of the pickup truck."

Yes, we, the public, can see the picture too, and in the truck bed I do not see any bodies, nor bodies covered up with bedding in the photo, do you?

Perhaps the accused rented a U-Haul, but there's no evidence of that. The evidence is that the green truck belonging to the accused it critically important to the investigation into the three missing and murdered persons. Why would we think that a U-Haul was used?

I'm pretty sure that the video surveillance picked up the victims in the back of the green pick-up truck, but we'll have to wait for trial to learn whether that is true, or whether the owner of the green pickup ran out to rent a U-Haul in the middle of a triple murder.

The question was whether the victims were seen by anyone after they were murdered at the Parkhill house. I answered that they only place they were seen was in the back of a pick up truck. Perhaps I should have said ... it's very likely that the only time they were seen was in the back of the pickup truck, or that in my opinion the only place they were seen was in the back of a pickup truck. Regardless, they were not seen by anyone after they were murdered at the Parkhill house. Police are still searching for the bodies.

I do have an idea how the victims were removed from the crime scene. They were dragged out of the house via the side door and to the driveway, where a green truck was parked, and they were then put into the back of the green truck. This opinion is based on information about recently washed dark stains that stretched from the side door to the driveway, and police interest in the green truck belonging to the accused that was seen in video surveillance on the night of the murder. If there was nothing in that truck that interested police, they wouldn't have been so interested in that truck. They would have been pursuing every single vehicle that was seen in surveillance video ... but they weren't. They were only interested in the pickup truck. Furthermore, the angle of the camera gives a clear view into the back of the pickup truck. Given police interest in bedding, it's quite likely that bedding was put on top of the victims after they were put in the back of the pickup truck.
 
It's not speculation. It's looking at the facts and drawing conclusions. It's inductive logic, rather than deductive logic, but it's still logic.

Regardless of the logic used, it's based on an assumption. There isn't enough information to decisively conclude the drag marks are related to the crime.

Yes... 1+2=3... pure logic... but if you are just speculating it's a 2, then 3 might not be the answer.
 
Murder investigations are logical. The investigation has to be logical if investigators expect a prosecutor to take them seriously and pursue the case.

Sounds pretty much like the same thing I said. :)
 
Do we need a video to believe what the facts reveal?
 
Regardless of the logic used, it's based on an assumption. There isn't enough information to decisively conclude the drag marks are related to the crime.

Yes... 1+2=3... pure logic... but if you are just speculating it's a 2, then 3 might not be the answer.

It's probably a horse, or kool-aid, or spilled oil. It's probably absurd to conclude that 25 feet of dark liquid drag marks leading out of a bloody murder scene are related to the murder.
 
I have a feeling, that before marking with a crime scene number, swabs were taken to determine whether it is human blood - a very quick field test. From my understanding, forensics don't just mark every potential piece of evidence - only if it is determined to be relevant.

Although, the more I think about it, what if LE determined at the time that it wasn't blood, and later realized it still may have been tied to the crime? Would they not have been remiss in documenting the drag marks? At the early stages, they wouldn't know what would later be relevant, so simply documenting drag marks, related or not, would be prudent.
 
The fact is that on the morning that the bloody crime scene was discovered, there were dark liquid stains spanning 25 feet along the side of the house to the driveway. That's a fact. Do we know what that substance is? No, but police do. Is it part of the crime scene? Perhaps the silly policemen placed crime scene markers identifying a 25 foot long recently cleaned up kool-aid spill.

The three victims, one of whom was 6'2" and a couple of hundred pounds, were removed from the bloody crime scene. Perhaps they were taken out through the patio door, onto the deck, and a section of the fence was removed (and rebuilt) in the middle of the night. The bodies were heaved over the deck railing into something, but it wasn't the back of a pick up truck, because we don't know that the pick up truck is even related to the murders. It might have been a U-Haul, or a little yellow car - perhaps a Car2go.

Perhaps a shopping cart, have you seen what some people can fit in one of those? lol

Everyone here is just throwing "what about's?" out there...we all have one common goal despite the oppositional stances, it is to see justice done. Some, who strongly feel that DG is guilty, would like to see him punished for it, which, if he is, he most certainly will be. Some, on the other hand, are looking at information that are facts as well that are starting to muddy the waters a bit. IMO, LE must be looking down the same paths for due diligence...I don't think those that think differently than you and others do, are necessarily wrong. We are simply looking at every possible angle.

Back in the day they used to burn people at the stake for whatever reason. They had lynch mobs. We don't do that anymore. We have a process. Part of the process is for LE to investigate ALL POSSIBLE LEADS. That includes theories that may be different than the obvious.
 
Police are not running in hundreds of different directions. They did a thorough investigation, they followed leads, they made an arrest, and the case is now in the hands of the prosecutor's office. Police continue to search for the bodies in the large swaths of farmland surrounding Airdrie.

Why would they need over 200 people as resources? There was a lot to check into. That's what "hundreds of different directions" meant. Sorry for miscommunicating that. :)
 
Someone had mentioned that KL was not included in the Amber Alert. When I search for the Amber Alert information I find only MSM articles and they do include KL. I am still searching for the "official" AA. Does anyone have that handy? If KL was left out I wonder if they gave the descriptor of AL because of Alberta protocols that need a descriptor of the suspect and so they used AL to get the approval for issue of the AA. When the AA was issued they had no vehicle description because the grandparents vehicles were accounted for and The green truck was not yet identified. The green truck was added after the original AA release.

"Normally when you look for the criteria for an Amber Alert, what was missing was a description about an abductor or a mode of transportation, which still exists, but given the other criteria, we do have a good description of the young lad as well as the grandparents, we decided we would put out an Amber Alert regardless of missing that one criteria," Brookwell said.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/n...t+Amber+Alert+Calgary+with/9989650/story.html

http://www.solgps.alberta.ca/safe_communities/community_awareness/Pages/amber_alert.aspx
Found the AA - June 30
http://emergencyalert.alberta.ca/alerts/2014/06/2568.html

Green truck description updated to AA on July 5
http://emergencyalert.alberta.ca/alerts/2014/07/2576.html
 
All of this was going on at the same time as the estate sale? Who was doing it? Alvin, Kathryn, and Nathan were in the house at 10PM when Nathan's mom left. Kathryn was wearing pyjamas. They'd had 300 people at the house over three days, with no time to even remove the "come on in" sign. Did they leave grease garbage from the driveway to the side door on the ground during the estate sale? We need to keep the timeline in mind as well. Camping trip mess all over the sidewalk during an estate sale ... does that make sense?

Maybe someone brought a sloppy child over with them that had a big old slush from 7-11 and he dribbled it allllll the way down the sidewalk. Have you ever seen that? I had 3 brothers, they did stuff like that all the time. And worse.

PS...sometimes I'm in my pj's ALL day....that means nada, other than she likely had a shower to wash off the dust, dirt, etc. plus it was warm out, and got into her pj's. Was she supposed to get dressed to go out while JO was there? Of course she would put on pj's...people go to the store in pj's nowadays. I have a blanket that I want to throw in the washer....it's been hanging on my bannister for the past week...I guess I figure it's going to walk up to the 2nd floor laundry room by itself...it's still sitting there...I walk past it several times a day...and that's because I don't see it anymore. That's a reasonable explanation for the sign still being on the door...it's not about not having the time...it's about having your mind elsewhere and also probably in 3 days, it became normal looking. Some people still have their Christmas stuff up outside until May...so what?
 
But the youngest child did not live with his parents, so why would be dragging messy camping equipment to his parents house after the garage sale ended and before the murders took place? Why would he make a huge dark liquid mess and leave it there? Furthermore, it was a long weekend and the murders happened two days before the end of the long weekend. If the youngest child (an adult in his 20s) was on a long weekend camping trip, he wasn't home at the time of the murders.

Does a broken case of beer leave dark liquid drag marks spanning 8 metres?

I've never heard of any friends that helped with the garage sale - only from neighbours that attended the sale and reported conflicting remarks made by the Liknes couple about moving to Mexico and up North.

The garbage bins are at the back of the house so no one had any reason to put garbage in the front yard. Furthermore, Calgary supplies large garbage bins to each house in the city, so no one leaves garbage bags lying around. They can put the garbage in the bin and wheel it away.

Perhaps there was a leaky freezer in the garage, but that doesn't explain the dark liquid from the driveway to the side door. Furthermore, if food was removed from the freezer and dragged to the side door leaving 25 feet of dark stains on the sidewalk, common sense dictates it should be dragged all the way to the garbage bins and not taken into the house.

It's become a huge trend for adult children to continue living with their parents, sometimes well into their 30's. I have a brother that stays with my mom so she won't be alone since my dad has passed. He has a lake lot that he goes to on weekends...you should see the stuff he brings home...and why wouldn't he? He lives there. It's just stuff...so what if it makes a mess...easily hosed off of concrete...it could be anything!!! My mom's Asian neighbors hang meat in their backyard...it drips blood...all over the yard and sidewalks...they string it all across the across the yard using the fences...yuck!! But nevertheless, that's one household's ways.

JL is a student...chances are good he stays at home during summer vacation...students are typically poor.

Maybe a garbage bin was put out front for the over 300 attendees to throw their garbage into? Maybe there was a hotdog sale at the estate sale as well? Sounds like Kathryn and Alvin were great hosts and very hospitable.

Those drag marks could literally be anything. Have to wait for proof through the forensic evidence of their origin.
 
How did the accused, a man with a pick up truck that was of great interest to police, remove the bodies from the crime scene? What are the possibilities?

Maybe there weren't any bodies to remove at that "crime scene".
 
Perhaps the accused rented a U-Haul, but there's no evidence of that. The evidence is that the green truck belonging to the accused it critically important to the investigation into the three missing and murdered persons. Why would we think that a U-Haul was used?

I'm pretty sure that the video surveillance picked up the victims in the back of the green pick-up truck, but we'll have to wait for trial to learn whether that is true, or whether the owner of the green pickup ran out to rent a U-Haul in the middle of a triple murder.

The question was whether the victims were seen by anyone after they were murdered at the Parkhill house. I answered that they only place they were seen was in the back of a pick up truck. Perhaps I should have said ... it's very likely that the only time they were seen was in the back of the pickup truck, or that in my opinion the only place they were seen was in the back of a pickup truck. Regardless, they were not seen by anyone after they were murdered at the Parkhill house. Police are still searching for the bodies.

I do have an idea how the victims were removed from the crime scene. They were dragged out of the house via the side door and to the driveway, where a green truck was parked, and they were then put into the back of the green truck. This opinion is based on information about recently washed dark stains that stretched from the side door to the driveway, and police interest in the green truck belonging to the accused that was seen in video surveillance on the night of the murder. If there was nothing in that truck that interested police, they wouldn't have been so interested in that truck. They would have been pursuing every single vehicle that was seen in surveillance video ... but they weren't. They were only interested in the pickup truck. Furthermore, the angle of the camera gives a clear view into the back of the pickup truck. Given police interest in bedding, it's quite likely that bedding was put on top of the victims after they were put in the back of the pickup truck.

Anything of the accused's would be of importance to LE, not just the green truck.
The U-Haul was just a "possibility".
From what I understand, and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, LE has not specifically identified that truck as the same one that DG had.
Anyone searching through a dump for possible 'deceased or hurt victims" would be alerted by ANY and ALL bedding, regardless where it came from. Was there a tag on it that said it was from the Liknes home? Or, did they have a specific area in the dump that their trash was placed? I'm not sure of waste management's logistics of these things.
 
So the sign being left up indicates they had no time from 8pm to 10pm to do anything but worry about the sale? What if it was just an oversight? How many people were there between 8 and 10 for the sale?

JO commented they had watched a movie that night and had a big group hug on the couch. They also ordered Chinese take out, so I think they wanted to relax after a busy weekend. Just throwing that in there for you and Otto.

ETA: "It was a memory I will forever cherish," O'Brien said of a busy day that ended with a dinner of takeout Chinese food, a movie and a family hug session on the couch."

http://www.leaderpost.com/Grandparents+mourned+after+summer+tears/10245307/story.html
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
102
Guests online
221
Total visitors
323

Forum statistics

Threads
609,270
Messages
18,251,600
Members
234,585
Latest member
Mocha55
Back
Top