JLM: What Do We Know About Him? - #3

I think LE were already following or gathering info on JLM. Maybe they were trying to draw out tips from people who had seen JLM earlier in the evening, or with HG --- without alarming JLM and sending him on the run.

Even in my old age, I do not think of a 32 yr old as a kid!! It makes my skin crawl to think a 32 yr old MAN touched a 18/19 yr old teen.

ThinkHard said:

I know people keep making references to hunting and fishing, and being a country boy....but do we actually know that JLM was an outdoorsman type. I just don't see him hunting, and fishing....I see him as one who grew up in the country because his family was poor and it was cheap. Not so much as a country loving boy....but maybe I missed something, and you guys can fill me in.

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(I'm pulling over from Remains Identified thread)

Several of his friends on social media who visibly post about their outdoorsmanship made reference to him being a part of that. Also, and perhaps the most convincing for me, is that LE made reference a couple of times during pressers that they were specifically interested in people calling in tips about where JM may have gone fishing. Somehow they knew enough about that that it was significant.

ILOKAL said:

ThinkHard left a few descriptors out, IMO: Drove wildly, amassed traffic violations, also drove wildly through neighborhoods without regard for anyone's safety, pushed himself on women in the presence of other locals, was kicked out of at least two universities, etc.

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For one I garantee most who knew him had no idea why he left either. You keep analyzing him how you see him, based on all we know. If you want to understand how he was with people he'd grown up around, you have to see him through their lens.

Also despite him being awkward and touchy which his own friends acknowledge with some, it isn't exactly like they thought such behavior made him capable of rape or murder....just a really bad wingman so to speak. Also from all accounts he did have some women in his life as friends that he was "kind" around, so they would have no reason to suspect that side. I also tend to think he might have been really keyed up that night, and may have been acting even more aggressive to women then normal. And finally regarding the traffic violations, and erratic driving, though dangerous, and irritating....I think we can all agree that not everyone with a bad driving record is a serial killer. And far more people have bad driving records then kill people.

So while in retrospect...some of these things seem glaring, in order to understand him, and how he was perceived you have to adjust your filter a bit.

Paulap said:

i think that he did probably travel
he likely had benefactors who helped him travel - at least when he was younger and in college and shortly thereafter

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Paulap, I assume you and hopefully your nephew are in touch with LE, but I'd ask that you talk to them, particularly about this, if you haven't, especially if you're aware of any particular dates or locations. I know this must be incredibly difficult for you, but the more information they have, the better off everyone will be and the better chance justice will be served for everyone and people can be made more safe in the future. Check out the "other possible victims" thread, too.

Thanks for still being here. I wish I could wrap my arms around you guys, as I can't imagine the pain and shock and grief you're experiencing, no matter how this all turns out.

ThinkHard said:

Yes but for years and years what he has been "known" as is, a local kid, who is an assistant football coach at a private school, works at the hospital, hangs out at the bars with friends he's grown up with, maybe not great with women, a little socially awkward, maybe not the sharpest tool in the shed, giant teddy bear.....

So we have to keep in mind this is the lens through which people knew him....and that profile fits someone who would sit around and play pocker with the guys.

I personally do not see him as a highly orchestrated, sadistic, serial killer that some people do. I see him more of a kid with a history of family trouble, who is awkward, and not highly educated, and has major women issues. Possibly rejection....and needing power. I see him as someone who isn't a big planner but knows the area and sort of has gotten lucky. I think he's the type that acts on impulses and urges (ones which seem to spike in the fall). I think the vastness of landscape around Charlottesville has given him plenty of opportunity to carry out his deads, without needing a lot of planning. And I even think he might have a small part of him that is even remorseful after. I don't think he is so twisted, that his intelligence gives him charisma....because he's been reported by many to be awkward. I guess in other words I think its more of an uncontrolled impulse he hides from those who know him, rather then having the capability to fake a completely different personality.

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I agree...

ThinkHard said:

I agree we don't KNOW officially much of anything. But I do believe JLM's main focus is rape, given what we know in his history...I believe rape was the motive for abduction...so with reasonable speculation we can assume she was in fact assaulted. I do not believe murder was his first thought. Though at this point he had to be aware that if he raped her, it would end that way. I also do not think he drove out that far from downtown if he felt like she was just willing to give him what he wanted. I think when she left with him, he knew he was going to take her, new about where, and knew exactly what he was going to do to her. I also do not think he is the type of sexual predator that cares if his victims are active at the time he rapes them.

Something also makes me feel that he did not attack either Morgan or HG in his car.

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BBM. I don't think he had much maneuvering room in that little car of his and Hannah likely sat in the front seat. He could have stopped, punched, strangled Hannah in the car and then dragged her out, but from the checker's description of Hannah's condition, needing support to walk and even stand, my guess is that he did not have to do much other than help her out of the car and kind of walk her to wherever.

MH is a whole other story, as there is no evidence that JM could have gotten any spiked drink into her as a cabby picking her up. She was "under the influence", tired, agitated, so it's possible she just dozed in the cab--she'd be in the back seat while JM drove her, and not realized that the journey was not where she had directed. She said she was going "home" to her friends, and where that was, I don't know, but it wasn't local. We're talking a long cab ride. I would guess she zoned out until he stopped and opened the door and pulled her out. Might have given her a punch to expedite the process.

But then some of her belongings were found right where she had been standing near the stadium in Charlottesville, like her phone. Maybe she dropped the items before getting into the cab. Maybe JM pulled into a secluded area near the stadium , punched her or strangled her there, pitched some of her itmes and then drove to Anchorage Farm to dispose of her body.

It is also possible that Morgan got out of the cab when it stopped and tried to make a run for it and he caught her. Or refused to get out the cab when he stopped it and he had to force her out. I cannot tell from MH's parents' statements of how MH fought him, how she was brutally beaten, what might have happened and whether the ME was able to come up with a theory from the autopsy.

One thing we do know about JM, from what he did in his attack of the Fairfax victim, is that he has no compunction of punching and strangling his victims. Whether he took the same approach with Hannah and MH, we won't know until the ME reports are released and then only if there was enough evidence for a reasonable theory to be put together.

MJPeony said:

I don't get the sense he traveled all that much. Just from what we know about him and his family. They don't seem to have had a lot of money and he stayed in Va for both colleges. JMO though.

And I do think he primarily stuck to the Fall for his crimes. Just too many coincidences from the crimes we believe he's connected to. Maybe there were some outliers, but I personally think the Fall football season and the timing of that 02 rape accusation have something to do with his MO. Again, JMO.

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I would have said the same thing about not really thinking he'd stray far from Charlottesville -- just a feeling I got given all his ties to the area, the fact that he had family mostly there and in the DC area, etc... but then he took off for Galveston, TX, which changed my attitude and made me wonder if he'd traveled more than I had previously thought. For one, he was on a football team in college (albeit briefly) and they travel for games, and we've had an insider here who posted saying that LJ's friends had all moved away (one to California). So maybe he got out of the Charlottesville area more than one would think.

ThinkHard said:

I agree we don't KNOW officially much of anything. But I do believe JLM's main focus is rape, given what we know in his history...I believe rape was the motive for abduction...so with reasonable speculation we can assume she was in fact assaulted. I do not believe murder was his first thought. Though at this point he had to be aware that if he raped her, it would end that way. I also do not think he drove out that far from downtown if he felt like she was just willing to give him what he wanted. I think when she left with him, he knew he was going to take her, new about where, and knew exactly what he was going to do to her. I also do not think he is the type of sexual predator that cares if his victims are active at the time he rapes them.

Something also makes me feel that he did not attack either Morgan or HG in his car.

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I don't think he attacked HG in his car because it's too small. But it has begun to weigh on my mind today that I may think he beat Morgan to death in that taxi van.

It would surely be nice to know if anyone else owned that van after him. I'm thinking it was so messed up inside, he drove it out into the middle of nowhere and abandoned it. He may have used it afterwards for "other purposes." Use your imagination. :tears:

ThinkHard said:

Yes but for years and years what he has been "known" as is, a local kid, who is an assistant football coach at a private school, works at the hospital, hangs out at the bars with friends he's grown up with, maybe not great with women, a little socially awkward, maybe not the sharpest tool in the shed, giant teddy bear.....

So we have to keep in mind this is the lens through which people knew him....and that profile fits someone who would sit around and play pocker with the guys.

I personally do not see him as a highly orchestrated, sadistic, serial killer that some people do. I see him more of a kid with a history of family trouble, who is awkward, and not highly educated, and has major women issues. Possibly rejection....and needing power. I see him as someone who isn't a big planner but knows the area and sort of has gotten lucky. I think he's the type that acts on impulses and urges (ones which seem to spike in the fall). I think the vastness of landscape around Charlottesville has given him plenty of opportunity to carry out his deads, without needing a lot of planning. And I even think he might have a small part of him that is even remorseful after. I don't think he is so twisted, that his intelligence gives him charisma....because he's been reported by many to be awkward. I guess in other words I think its more of an uncontrolled impulse he hides from those who know him, rather then having the capability to fake a completely different personality.

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I get what you are saying. And though I would not characterize any 32 year old as a kid, I can see doing so, as a parent to some 30 somethings, whom I so regard along with their friends that I've known for years, since they were actually kids.

The thing is, there are a lot of awkward, non academic young people with low paying jobs, who have had to settle into adulthood for a lot less than expectations held during the school days. JM is better educated than most, having graduated from high school, gone to college and spent time with well educated peers, employers (UVA MC), and friends. This is not some one warming his hands over a fire in a trash can in the winter. He had a SO until a few months ago, and she was reportedly relatively long term too. He well knows the social rules that are followed by mainstream society, and when he had gone astray as a young man at two, TWO, not one, but two colleges, he was expelled even as a football player. If he could not "get it" from those incidents, that pushing beyond "no" is a taboo, there is something very wrong with him. From interviews, we've read that he had been admonished about hitting on women at a bar. He's had all of the warnings.

That he would do something so direct as that 2005 Fairfax rape, IMO, IDs him as a violet sex offender. He would just pick a random victim on her way to some unassociated activity, attack and rape her, No hoping she'd come along with him, that maybe she'd agree, that it would be a pick up. Nope. Jump her, punch her, try to strangle her as he rapes her. THat was the case that I had thought did not fit with his MO. With the other cases, though still inexcusable and IMO rape/murder, one can see a possible "pick up artist" on drugs or alcohol, luring a woman along and then going to far when things don't go as planned. Might have done this a number of times and found some women agreeable to go along even to encourage him in that direction. But the Fairfax rape case shows that he is an outright predator who has no compunction just going straight out into attack mode.

jamicat said:

I get what you are saying. And though I would not characterize any 32 year old as a kid, I can see doing so, as a parent to some 30 somethings, whom I so regard along with their friends that I've known for years, since they were actually kids.

The thing is, there are a lot of awkward, non academic young people with low paying jobs, who have had to settle into adulthood for a lot less than expectations held during the school days. JM is better educated than most, having graduated from high school, gone to college and spent time with well educated peers, employers (UVA MC), and friends. This is not some one warming his hands over a fire in a trash can in the winter. He had a SO until a few months ago, and she was reportedly relatively long term too. He well knows the social rules that are followed by mainstream society, and when he had gone astray as a young man at two, TWO, not one, but two colleges, he was expelled even as a football player. If he could not "get it" from those incidents, that pushing beyond "no" is a taboo, there is something very wrong with him. From interviews, we've read that he had been admonished about hitting on women at a bar. He's had all of the warnings.

That he would do something so direct as that 2005 Fairfax rape, IMO, IDs him as a violet sex offender. He would just pick a random victim on her way to some unassociated activity, attack and rape her, No hoping she'd come along with him, that maybe she'd agree, that it would be a pick up. Nope. Jump her, punch her, try to strangle her as he rapes her. THat was the case that I had thought did not fit with his MO. With the other cases, though still inexcusable and IMO rape/murder, one can see a possible "pick up artist" on drugs or alcohol, luring a woman along and then going to far when things don't go as planned. Might have done this a number of times and found some women agreeable to go along even to encourage him in that direction. But the Fairfax rape case shows that he is an outright predator who has no compunction just going straight out into attack mode.

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Yes he goes right into attack mode, when he gets an overwhelming impulse.

Regarding the comments on how lots of kids have it so much worse....the thing is even two kids in the same home do not grow up the same way. No two people react to there set of circumstances even similar circumstances the same way. Some kids it just seems are like weeds and you can change their setting, and they just keep growing strong, and some kids are like orchids, delicate, far more susceptible to the effects of their environment.

I'm certainly not saying JLM wasnt suffering mentally, I think that's clear. But I see his violence as sloppy, bull like, impulse driven. I do not see him as so neuro atypical, or so highly intelligent that he walks that fine line btw genius and insanity. I do not see him as being that methodical. JMO

Posted in the Fairfax thread, but we now know this about him:

Breaking: #Fairfax CA: #JesseMatthew will make 1st #Fairfax Appearance Friday @ 8:30 via video from Albamarle Reg Jail @wusa9 (which should read Albemarle)
https://twitter.com/PeggyTV/status/526815470796943360

Bonacker said:

When I saw the videotape from the Downtown Mall, when JLM walked into the frame. I'm not at all generally a person who follows crimes or does sleuthing, but this . . . . .It was something visceral. It was way back at the start, before LE had identified the dreadlocks dude as a person of interest. . . . I saw him and felt that bad feeling and thought, "OH MY GOD, it's HIM! UGH, HORRORS, YUCK, it's HIM!"

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BBM. Me too. It was the weirdest thing. Even though I grew to doubt myself after starting to hear from people who knew him, that night, when they released the videos, the hair on the back of my neck stood up and I couldn't stop yammering about how it was THAT GUY, STOP LOOKING AT THE OTHER PEOPLE, THEY ARE RED HERRINGS, IT'S HIM IT'S HIM!

I even posted it. I need to stop doubting my first impressions.

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09-17-2014, 11:27 PM #197 Skigirl

Quote Originally Posted by Skigirl
Parker Slaybaugh @Parker8News · 19s
BREAKING: Here is the newest security video to be released in the Hannah Graham case.

Again...BREAKING: The... http://fb.me/76XZdLZ0Z


Oh boy, you can definitely see her in this one, and it looks like someone does have an arm around her. I just want to scream, 'noooooo!!!!!'

-------------------------

09-17-2014, 11:33 PM #213 Skigirl

Quote Originally Posted by Claudia View Post
I'm with you. I don't see Hannah at all. The woman in the foreground is obviously not her. I'm confused.

Look at the facebook one. Suddenly the first one makes more sense. I think the guy in the foreground with the dreads may be the one who subsequently has his arm around Hannah.

-------------------------------------

09-17-2014, 11:38 PM #226 Skigirl

Guys, Look at both videos. Ignore the two women in the first one. Focus on the guy with dreads walking left->right at the front, and then up in the upper right corner.

http://www.wric.com/global/Category....lipId=10596098

Then look at the facebook one. I think the dreadlock guy is the one that the "doorway" guy said he saw her with. Ugh, ugh ugh.

http://fb.me/76XZdLZ0Z
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09-17-2014, 11:54 PM #260 Skigirl

I know I sound like a crazy person, but please indulge me.

First video: Dreadlock guy @27 seconds. White (long) shorts, grayish?/slightly darker top?

Second video: @3 seconds? White (long) shorts? Darkish hair? Grayish top? Arm around Hannah?

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09-18-2014, 12:00 AM #272 Skigirl

I feel pretty sick and I hate to be a drama queen, but I am pretty sure we witnessed the moments that sealed her fate.

ksj3 said:

Paulap, I assume you and hopefully your nephew are in touch with LE, but I'd ask that you talk to them, particularly about this, if you haven't, especially if you're aware of any particular dates or locations. I know this must be incredibly difficult for you, but the more information they have, the better off everyone will be and the better chance justice will be served for everyone and people can be made more safe in the future. Check out the "other possible victims" thread, too.

Thanks for still being here. I wish I could wrap my arms around you guys, as I can't imagine the pain and shock and grief you're experiencing, no matter how this all turns out.

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thanks... will go and check out that thread, too... been in touch with le

Skigirl said:

I would have said the same thing about not really thinking he'd stray far from Charlottesville -- just a feeling I got given all his ties to the area, the fact that he had family mostly there and in the DC area, etc... but then he took off for Galveston, TX, which changed my attitude and made me wonder if he'd traveled more than I had previously thought. For one, he was on a football team in college (albeit briefly) and they travel for games, and we've had an insider here who posted saying that LJ's friends had all moved away (one to California). So maybe he got out of the Charlottesville area more than one would think.

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he has traveled outside of the area...

jamicat said:

I get what you are saying. And though I would not characterize any 32 year old as a kid, I can see doing so, as a parent to some 30 somethings, whom I so regard along with their friends that I've known for years, since they were actually kids.

The thing is, there are a lot of awkward, non academic young people with low paying jobs, who have had to settle into adulthood for a lot less than expectations held during the school days. JM is better educated than most, having graduated from high school, gone to college and spent time with well educated peers, employers (UVA MC), and friends. This is not some one warming his hands over a fire in a trash can in the winter. He had a SO until a few months ago, and she was reportedly relatively long term too. He well knows the social rules that are followed by mainstream society, and when he had gone astray as a young man at two, TWO, not one, but two colleges, he was expelled even as a football player. If he could not "get it" from those incidents, that pushing beyond "no" is a taboo, there is something very wrong with him. From interviews, we've read that he had been admonished about hitting on women at a bar. He's had all of the warnings.

That he would do something so direct as that 2005 Fairfax rape, IMO, IDs him as a violet sex offender. He would just pick a random victim on her way to some unassociated activity, attack and rape her, No hoping she'd come along with him, that maybe she'd agree, that it would be a pick up. Nope. Jump her, punch her, try to strangle her as he rapes her. THat was the case that I had thought did not fit with his MO. With the other cases, though still inexcusable and IMO rape/murder, one can see a possible "pick up artist" on drugs or alcohol, luring a woman along and then going to far when things don't go as planned. Might have done this a number of times and found some women agreeable to go along even to encourage him in that direction. But the Fairfax rape case shows that he is an outright predator who has no compunction just going straight out into attack mode.

Click to expand...

so agree with what you are saying here
this has been so hard to accept about lj but i do believe there is more than a "misunderstood" kid here

https://twitter.com/JulieCareyNBC/status/526817258057003008
Request to leave #JesseMatthew in Albermarle Regional jail & have a video appearence in Fairfax Friday came jointly from both jurisdictions

BBM. Flight risk?

ThinkHard said:

Yes he goes right into attack mode, when he gets an overwhelming impulse.

Regarding the comments on how lots of kids have it so much worse....the thing is even two kids in the same home do not grow up the same way. No two people react to there set of circumstances even similar circumstances the same way. Some kids it just seems are like weeds and you can change their setting, and they just keep growing strong, and some kids are like orchids, delicate, far more susceptible to the effects of their environment.

I'm certainly not saying JLM wasnt suffering mentally, I think that's clear. But I see his violence as sloppy, bull like, impulse driven. I do not see him as so neuro atypical, or so highly intelligent that he walks that fine line btw genius and insanity. I do not see him as being that methodical. JMO

Click to expand...

i am going to jump in here and opine for a minute
though lj's home life may have been less than desirable, his mom is a good woman
and i know there were those in the community who went out of their to help him
so for me, it's nice to say that it's due to environment but i think that is sheer speculation and really will never be known

Paulap said:

i am going to jump in here and opine for a minute
though lj's home life may have been less than desirable, his mom is a good woman
and i know there were those in the community who went out of their to help him
so for me, it's nice to say that it's due to environment but i think that is sheer speculation and really will never be known

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I know you are close to this case, so this must be particularly difficult. I did not mean to imply he didn't have a good mother, or that he was simply a product of a bad environment without any love and support. I just meant to point out, how some kids are more sensitive to problems or stressors in their environment then other kids. And perhaps JLM was more sensitive, and more strongly impacted by things that happened in his life along the way, and maybe he lacked by his nature, the capability to develop better "coping skills".

I've noticed girls tend to turn inward (cutting, anorexia, bulimia), where as boys tend to cope by turning outwards....aggression on others, theft, reckless driving....

I fully agree that different folks react differently to the same environment. There is no question that childhoods fraught with abuse and dysfunctions result more in adults that have problems, the severe kind than those with less stress, conflict, neglect. The evidence is right there in our prisons, juvenile centers and other such facilities.

Living freely in society instead of locked up behind bars means obeying social rules dictated by the law regardless of impulses, desires, obsessions. You want to punch that guy in the face? Yes, it happens to most of us that we get those feelings, but we have to turn the other cheek most of the time. Can't go around doing that if you want to go around freely. Want to have sex tonight? Gotta find a willing partner. There are a lot of base, illegal, even sick desired harbored by many. You often can't control how you feel. It's how you act upon your feelings is what counts, and what's important. JM knew well what these rules are and the consequences fo breaking them. He'd been in trouble for breaking them. Yet, he continued to do so. That trait of his is evident in his long list of driving related charges. Just didn't learn or refused to learn. That he had to stand in line at DMV to get a new driver's license before fleeing from LE is outrageous to me. Expired inspection stickers, tickets galore, He just didn't care even though he had to pay consequences for this neglect.

My guess is that he picked up women who were drinking or drugging it up too much and took advantage of them with no consequences for a while from reports that he was a known prowler among the bars and other night spots. He's not been accused of 'date rape" since college years, and I doubt that he's stopped that activity. Why would he have felt the need to have killed Hannah? THat just really gets me. By the accounts of one of the last people who saw her leaving with JM, she could barely stand and walk without support.. He could have just as easily left her alive somewhere. There would have been a chance that she might not have reported it. But a missing woman was guaranteed to bring on the fire storm that it did. I don't know what he was thinking. Or perhaps he got some enjoyment in killing.