Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

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Mr Fossil said:
Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan

#OscarPistorius lawyers argue state bid to challenge should be dismissed and state should pay OP legal costs. @eNCAnews

#OscarPistorius lawyers argue state's attempted challenge to murder acquittal "is not an appeal" @eNCAnews

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2t1keVIEAAm-lH.jpg

#OscarPistorius lawyers say judge Masipa must strike state "appeal" from court roll...@eNCAnews

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2t1keVIEAAm-lH.jpg

#OscarPistorius lawyers: state can petition SCA to "grant leave to consider whether or not the questions are questions of law"@eNCAnews

Still waiting for Defence document to appear online ...
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. I've been searching daily for a copy of Defense's appeal to stop State's Leave to Appeal without any luck. Really nice to find your post here today!

I hate to sound greedy, but do you have more than one page of the document for our viewing pleasure? I ask because you gave two image links in your post but they both lead to "CONCLUSION - paragraphs 68. through (portion of) paragraph 71.

I'm glad to hear that you're "on the job" of watching for the entire doc to appear online. Ty.

ETA: I see that we were posting at the same time... I'm off to read now. Ty.
 
foxbluff said:
Thank you for this. I've been searching daily for a copy of Defense's appeal to stop State's Leave to Appeal without any luck. Really nice to find your post here today!

I hate to sound greedy, but do you have more than one page of the document for our viewing pleasure? I ask because you gave two image links in your post but they both lead to "CONCLUSION - paragraphs 68. through (portion of) paragraph 71.

I'm glad to hear that you're "on the job" of watching for the entire doc to appear online. Ty.
Click to expand...

My mistake with the image links, there were two but I managed to put the same one up twice. Not relevant any more ....

Post #1001 has links to both documents in full (I guess you're just catching up and haven't got to it yet).
 
One would think that if the defence were confident that the verdict and sentence were appropriate, they would be only too pleased to have it ratified by the Supreme Court, no? :rolleyes:
 
Mr Fossil said:
My mistake with the image links, there were two but I managed to put the same one up twice. Not relevant any more ....

Post #1001 has links to both documents in full (I guess you're just catching up and haven't got to it yet).
Click to expand...

Ty. I did see your links to the full doc. Unfortunately, I'm unable to open them, but will figure it out in time.

Meanwhile, do you happen to have the image file handy for the other image link mentioned in your first sentence above? If so, would you be willing to add it to your original post on the subject? (Please only do so if it's not a lot of trouble.)
 
foxbluff said:
Ty. I did see your links to the full doc. Unfortunately, I'm unable to open them, but will figure it out in time.

Meanwhile, do you happen to have the image file handy for the other image link mentioned in your first sentence above? If so, would you be willing to add it to your original post on the subject? (Please only do so if it's not a lot of trouble.)
Click to expand...

I've copied both the files to my OneDrive, are you able to get them from these links?

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=990C33D7CB777120!2511&authkey=!AIxOfMu57aS4KTA&ithint=file,pdf
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=990C33D7CB777120!2515&authkey=!AMERBXEz-QWnxL8&ithint=file,pdf
 
Judgejudi said:
Quote Originally Posted by Mr Fossil View Post 981

#OscarPistorius lawyers: "it cannot be in dispute that parents of the deceased...expressed their satisfaction with the sentence"

#OscarPistorius lawyers say the attitude of Reeva Steenkamp's parents to his sentence "is a material factor" @eNCAnews



Totally abhorrent, below the belt and beyond the pale. "How do I loathe, let me count the ways". OP may be financially "bankrupt"... or not ... but his team is morally bankrupt.

And what precisely do either of these two grounds by the DT have anything to do with the law? What the parents said outside the court is totally irrelevant to the appeal, as is their attitude to the sentence. IMO they're clutching at straws. If Masipa denies the State's application, I think they'll be hotfooting it straight to the SCA for leave to appeal and I'll be cheering all the way from Oz.
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IMBW, but I believe in SA law the victim's family's views are important to sentencing in SA (I don't think I am wrong because I recall that Mr Hindocha had to agree Tongo's new sentence that was reduced by his plea bargain and I recall Mdunge's suspended sentence had to be agreed with his dead wife's family too). In which case if, as I think it may be, it is a part of the system, it would be nothing to do with a moral stance rather a legal position and as an upholder of laws I am sure you would agree that if a legal right then it is only fair that every person in SA has the right to avail themselves of it. jmho but let's wait and see.

In respect of the State "hotfooting it to the SCA" there are two problems. 1) If indeed there are no grounds for appeal or the State has appealed on facts not law the SCA will most likely refuse leave to appeal, and 2) Even if there are grounds and the SCA give leave for an appeal as Grant notes in his blog article: The Seekoie Hurdle (link here to the actual article The Seekoie Barrier) there would still be a long way to before it will be seen if an appeal will actually be possible.
 
Mr Fossil said:
I've copied both the files to my OneDrive, are you able to get them from these links?

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=990C33D7CB777120!2511&authkey=!AIxOfMu57aS4KTA&ithint=file,pdf
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=990C33D7CB777120!2515&authkey=!AMERBXEz-QWnxL8&ithint=file,pdf
Click to expand...

Bless you, Mr. Fos !! It appears that the download might take a couple of hours, but it will be worth the wait... it is downloading portions of all the pages, but it is steadily "filling them in." I would never have been able to download the doc without your help.

I had the same problem with the State's Appeal doc and would never have gotten it to download/open if it hadn't been for the generous help of @WilliamMunter.

Ahhh... but for the kindness of strangers...
 
emirates1957 said:
awesome, go mr fossil !!!!
Click to expand...

Ohhh emirates... I think we both misread Mr. Fos's post the same way! lol

I, too, at first thought he was talking about himself since he's been busy corresponding with Capt. Moller on the phone data records and had previously said he might not be able to share with us all the data Moller might provide to him. Oh, well, I don't know about you, but it's certainly not the biggest mistake I've ever made. (:

Now about Prof Grant. I've said all along that this must be a very exciting time for students of law in SA. Now with Grant actually advising the prosecutors, I would love to be a "fly on the wall" and listen in on his classes. I wonder if they're doing a mock trial of OP's case?
 
G.bng said:
IMBW, but I believe in SA law the victim's family's views are important to sentencing in SA (I don't think I am wrong because I recall that Mr Hindocha had to agree Tongo's new sentence that was reduced by his plea bargain and I recall Mdunge's suspended sentence had to be agreed with his dead wife's family too). In which case if, as I think it may be, it is a part of the system, it would be nothing to do with a moral stance rather a legal position and as an upholder of laws I am sure you would agree that if a legal right then it is only fair that every person in SA has the right to avail themselves of it. jmho but let's wait and see.

In respect of the State "hotfooting it to the SCA" there are two problems. 1) If indeed there are no grounds for appeal or the State has appealed on facts not law the SCA will most likely refuse leave to appeal, and 2) Even if there are grounds and the SCA give leave for an appeal as Grant notes in his blog article: The Seekoie Hurdle (link here to the actual article The Seekoie Barrier) there would still be a long way to before it will be seen if an appeal will actually be possible.
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You've missed the point G.bng. The parents' views that OP should serve time were expressed by Kim in the aggravation phase.The comments made by the parents referred to above were after the sentence had been delivered and they had left the courtroom.

If you read Prof Grant's other articles in Criminal Law of SA you'll see he does refer to Masipa getting it wrong regarding the law. See in particular "Unsuccessful attempts to justify Masipa's errors revised and expanded" (last para ... "Conclusion") and "Pistorius remains in jeopardy of a murder conviction". The State's application is grounded in law and, IMO, lists the facts to support how Masipa erred in reaching her conclusions. Personally speaking, I don't think the SCA will throw their application out. The legal experts in SA say the law relating to DE needs to be clarified once and for all as there's now confusion from the magistrate's level up, i.e. no-one really understands it now, if they ever did.
 
G.bng said:
In respect of the State "hotfooting it to the SCA" there are two problems. 1) If indeed there are no grounds for appeal or the State has appealed on facts not law the SCA will most likely refuse leave to appeal, and 2) Even if there are grounds and the SCA give leave for an appeal as Grant notes in his blog article: The Seekoie Hurdle (link here to the actual article The Seekoie Barrier) there would still be a long way to before it will be seen if an appeal will actually be possible.
Click to expand...

Makes you wonder why the defence have gone to the trouble and expense of appealing against it, if it's such a lost cause. :wink:
 
Nick van der Leek @HiRezLife · 4h 4 hours ago

The lesson from the Oscar trial appears to be cry a lot (whatever your crime) the judge is then expected to give you a slap on the wrist.
 
Is anybody else having a problem with the Post Quick Reply box. 50% of the time it's greyed out and I have go to Go Advanced. Then I don't get the normal Advanced screen but get a box where I can post a quick reply and everything is centred. Refreshing the page doesn't help. It's been happening for a couple of days now. :(
 
Judgejudi said:
Is anybody else having a problem with the Post Quick Reply box. 50% of the time it's greyed out and I have go to Go Advanced. Then I don't get the normal Advanced screen but get a box where I can post a quick reply and everything is centred. Refreshing the page doesn't help. It's been happening for a couple of days now. :(
Click to expand...


Mine seems to be okay, although someone was having a lot of problems yesterday on one of the Mcstay threads.

Hope it starts working for you soon :(
 
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