MS - Jessica Chambers, 19, found burned near her car, Panola County, 6 Dec 2014 - #5

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I'm still not sure how the tow truck driver has harmed this case by stopping at the convenience store.

I've seen posts saying that someone could have taken evidence out of the car when it was unattended. How would someone know what to take unless they were at the killing? They would have had to wait around for the tow truck and then follow in the hope that he would stop.

Why didn't they just take the evidence with them at the time of the killing? Wouldn't LE already have at least photographed the interior of the car and any evidence not already removed before the car was towed be seen in the photos?

What about altering evidence in or on the car while stopped at the store? How would someone do that without being seen? How would they even know what to tamper or destroy? A lot of forensic evidence is not visible to the naked eye.

If someone wanted to alter or cover up anything, whats the best and quickest way to do it with the car on the flatbed? Where do you even start? How do you even touch the car without leaving evidence behind that you did? The car was burnt so any disturbance of it would be easily left behind.

I really doubt that someone was able to alter, remove or destroy any evidence, in or on the car, while the tow truck driver stopped at the convenience store.

I'm willing to listen to any scenario's that could change my mind.
 
I apologize for this terribly long and tl;dr post but it has some substance (I believe) in determining the kind of perpetrator they should be looking for.

You know, considering what information we were given initially, before LE imposed a dummy up order on Family, witnesses and medical staff, we know that

A. Someone witnessed a person on fire walking down the road.
B. Jessica had accelerant introduced orally/nasally or both.
c. Jessica gave a name or names to first responders.

All of those can be somewhat corroborated through evidence or statements.
A. The soles of her feet weren't burned but every other part of her body was "seriously" I would imagine by seriously that would indicate a burn beyond first degree. That could mean she was on her feet for a time. Even if she had very durable soles, the uppers on her shoes were likely obliterated as she had serious burns on her dorsals.
B. I'm not sure how exactly anyone other than a medical professional could make that particular evaluation, but Ali Alsanai corroborated it by saying LE provided that information to him, and Ben Chambers later did the same quoting medical personel.
C. It's been reported too many times by too many sources to reject it as hearsay in mnsho. I've even read somewhere that she was screaming in the hospital, soandso did this. Now before you go poohpoohing the possibility, talk to people in burn wards. People that can tell you how long before the swelling, blistering,and inflammation which accompany serious burns would prohibit speech. I know damned well if someone set me on fire, I'd struggle with my last breath to damn their *advertiser censored* to prison.

I have a point, I promise.

I believe fire was the murder weapon and it was intentional although I myself have one possible counter argument for the theory.

A beating gone too far, and fire to eradicate the evidence. Okay, that assumes two things. The perpetrator(s) believed Jessica was dead or near death. Although initially we have reports of a gash to the head, Ben Chambers now vehemently denies it. The sclera should exhibit the presence of blood in serious head trauma, and no report seems to mention any form of assault. If so why didn't LE offer, they beat the hell out of her then set her on fire to AA? I think much of this theory is attributed to Ms. Wilkerson's observation of they went too far. Well yeah, setting someone on fire is too far, but it doesn't have to imply an assault beforehand. Here is where my counter argument comes in. If by chance you set someone on fire, and they woke up as people ablaze tend to do, you might very well haul *advertiser censored* out of there when they emerge screaming from the vehicle. You might at that point drop the phone you were holding and determine too late you had done so.

Now on to my point. If you've determined fire is how you want to murder someone, you're a special kind of person. The kind of person prepared not only to cause suffering, but to observe it. You could change your mind midstream, but if you had that kind of conscience, you'd have already turned yourself in. Whoever did it, sat there and watched at least for a while. To be able to sit through that level of suffering is pyschopathic in nature, not sociopathic. Whoever started the fire did so when they knew Jessica was alive, even if just clinging to life. If she were so close to death from a beating, would she have lingered so long with thermal injuries so bad? Thermal injury was the cause of death, not organ failure, not a brain bleed, not cardiac arrest (although she certainly did suffer at least one)
My best friend was a grenadier during the Vietnam war. He frequently carried phosphorus grenades. Those are used as an effective demoralizing weapon. They burn the victim badly. and burn until the fuel is depleted. My friend told me "Joe, I still remember their screams when I hit a target(s) I will never forget them." He had people actively trying to kill him, and what he remembered was their suffering. Someone out there has forgotten, at least one someone, or they just don't care, because Jessica was less than human, to him, her, or them.

An enraged partner of an adulterous spouse? To set fire to a live human being? One of the first charecteristics of a true psychopath is the inability to cultivate and maintain relationships. I could see a jealous wife stabbing, shooting or choking a mistress without reservation, but burning her alive? Jessica died of thermal injury, not blunt force trauma, not asphyxiation, not blood loss, not complications from any of the above.

To hide the evidence of rape, or any evidence for that matter? The car was a complete burnout in my opinion. Jessica was there for at least 20 minutes. I'd say if they wanted to eradicate evidence they stayed behind at least long enough to see her exit the car, and would have at least crushed her skull with a boot if nothing else. She was left to languish as punishment.

You're looking for a person, or people who have a complete disconnect with humanity as a whole. Not sociopathic misfits. Someone who is so far removed from humanity they could sit and listen to that child screaming for mercy, and having no ears to hear it, or heart to feel it.

This wasn't an angry spouse, it wasn't a jealous boyfriend, It wasn't someone just trying to eradicate evidence. It was someone so disconnected from humanity that we can't understand their motivation. This wasn't an impulse crime, the few things we "know" don't corroborate with an impulse crime.

tl;dr synopsis, I believe that a psychopath or multiple psychopaths murdered Jessica based on preliminary reports. Reports provided before LE issued dummy up orders to preserve exposure on details of the crime.
 
I'm still not sure how the tow truck driver has harmed this case by stopping at the convenience store.

I've seen posts saying that someone could have taken evidence out of the car when it was unattended. How would someone know what to take unless they were at the killing? They would have had to wait around for the tow truck and then follow in the hope that he would stop.

Why didn't they just take the evidence with them at the time of the killing? Wouldn't LE already have at least photographed the interior of the car and any evidence not already removed before the car was towed be seen in the photos?

What about altering evidence in or on the car while stopped at the store? How would someone do that without being seen? How would they even know what to tamper or destroy? A lot of forensic evidence is not visible to the naked eye.

If someone wanted to alter or cover up anything, whats the best and quickest way to do it with the car on the flatbed? Where do you even start? How do you even touch the car without leaving evidence behind that you did? The car was burnt so any disturbance of it would be easily left behind.

I really doubt that someone was able to alter, remove or destroy any evidence, in or on the car, while the tow truck driver stopped at the convenience store.

I'm willing to listen to any scenario's that could change my mind.

BBM

No one had to actively do anything to the car, just the fact that they had the opportunity to do so, will make any evidence related to the car cannon fodder for the defense attorney.

The evidence does not have to be altered, you only need prove that the possibility existed.

The way the vehicle was parked IIRC, one whole side of it was not visible from inside M&M.

If I was carrying a blood spattered shirt as evidence, and I exposed it to any circumstance where it could come in contact with any substance which would contaminate it, out of my direct line of sight, would you consider it possibly contaminated?
 
BBM

No one had to actively do anything to the car, just the fact that they had the opportunity to do so, will make any evidence related to the car cannon fodder for the defense attorney.

The evidence does not have to be altered, you only need prove that the possibility existed.

The way the vehicle was parked IIRC, one whole side of it was not visible from inside M&M.

If I was carrying a blood spattered shirt as evidence, and I exposed it to any circumstance where it could come in contact with any substance which would contaminate it, out of my direct line of sight, would you consider it possibly contaminated?
I'm not sure that the mere opportunity of tampering will mean much.

It doesn't to me and I'm not sure if it will to a jury. Evidence is what counts.

DNA is DNA. You can't find OJ Simpsons blood and say it's not his by saying it was "contaminated" later on. JMO.
 
I'm not sure that the mere opportunity of tampering will mean much.

It doesn't to me and I'm not sure if it will to a jury. Evidence is what counts.

DNA is DNA. You can't find OJ Simpsons blood and say it's not his by saying it was "contaminated" later on. JMO.

If I have no way to prove OJ's blood wasn't added after the fact, I'm going to have a hell of a time with a conviction.
 
If I have no way to prove OJ's blood wasn't added after the fact, I'm going to have a hell of a time with a conviction.

Well, if you believe in conspiracy's then we have a difference in opinion. That's what I see having to happen for tampering of evidence to be possible in this case. JMO.
 
BBM

No one had to actively do anything to the car, just the fact that they had the opportunity to do so, will make any evidence related to the car cannon fodder for the defense attorney.

The evidence does not have to be altered, you only need prove that the possibility existed.

The way the vehicle was parked IIRC, one whole side of it was not visible from inside M&M.

If I was carrying a blood spattered shirt as evidence, and I exposed it to any circumstance where it could come in contact with any substance which would contaminate it, out of my direct line of sight, would you consider it possibly contaminated?
How can a stop at the store change the evidence? The burn pattern won't change and neither will the ash or residue. There really isn't much to be affected. I don't think there will be a problem.
 
Well, if you believe in conspiracy's then we have a difference in opinion. That's what I see having to happen for tampering of evidence to be possible in this case. JMO.

Not a fan of conspiracy, they and the people who support them drive me mad. I do understand the meaning of the term reasonable doubt. I respect your opinion Ranch, I do. However in one breath you state the value of evidence, but in the next you express that the possibility of it having been tampered with not having much bearing. How can those two ideas possibly exist in the same process? I'm not trying to insult you, I just don't understand the reasoning.
 
I apologize for this terribly long and tl;dr post but it has some substance (I believe) in determining the kind of perpetrator they should be looking for.

You know, considering what information we were given initially, before LE imposed a dummy up order on Family, witnesses and medical staff, we know that

A. Someone witnessed a person on fire walking down the road.
B. Jessica had accelerant introduced orally/nasally or both.
c. Jessica gave a name or names to first responders.

All of those can be somewhat corroborated through evidence or statements.
A. The soles of her feet weren't burned but every other part of her body was "seriously" I would imagine by seriously that would indicate a burn beyond first degree. That could mean she was on her feet for a time. Even if she had very durable soles, the uppers on her shoes were likely obliterated as she had serious burns on her dorsals.
B. I'm not sure how exactly anyone other than a medical professional could make that particular evaluation, but Ali Alsanai corroborated it by saying LE provided that information to him, and Ben Chambers later did the same quoting medical personel.
C. It's been reported too many times by too many sources to reject it as hearsay in mnsho. I've even read somewhere that she was screaming in the hospital, soandso did this. Now before you go poohpoohing the possibility, talk to people in burn wards. People that can tell you how long before the swelling, blistering,and inflammation which accompany serious burns would prohibit speech. I know damned well if someone set me on fire, I'd struggle with my last breath to damn their *advertiser censored* to prison.

I have a point, I promise.

I believe fire was the murder weapon and it was intentional although I myself have one possible counter argument for the theory.

A beating gone too far, and fire to eradicate the evidence. Okay, that assumes two things. The perpetrator(s) believed Jessica was dead or near death. Although initially we have reports of a gash to the head, Ben Chambers now vehemently denies it. The sclera should exhibit the presence of blood in serious head trauma, and no report seems to mention any form of assault. If so why didn't LE offer, they beat the hell out of her then set her on fire to AA? I think much of this theory is attributed to Ms. Wilkerson's observation of they went too far. Well yeah, setting someone on fire is too far, but it doesn't have to imply an assault beforehand. Here is where my counter argument comes in. If by chance you set someone on fire, and they woke up as people ablaze tend to do, you might very well haul *advertiser censored* out of there when they emerge screaming from the vehicle. You might at that point drop the phone you were holding and determine too late you had done so.

Now on to my point. If you've determined fire is how you want to murder someone, you're a special kind of person. The kind of person prepared not only to cause suffering, but to observe it. You could change your mind midstream, but if you had that kind of conscience, you'd have already turned yourself in. Whoever did it, sat there and watched at least for a while. To be able to sit through that level of suffering is pyschopathic in nature, not sociopathic. Whoever started the fire did so when they knew Jessica was alive, even if just clinging to life. If she were so close to death from a beating, would she have lingered so long with thermal injuries so bad? Thermal injury was the cause of death, not organ failure, not a brain bleed, not cardiac arrest (although she certainly did suffer at least one)
My best friend was a grenadier during the Vietnam war. He frequently carried phosphorus grenades. Those are used as an effective demoralizing weapon. They burn the victim badly. and burn until the fuel is depleted. My friend told me "Joe, I still remember their screams when I hit a target(s) I will never forget them." He had people actively trying to kill him, and what he remembered was their suffering. Someone out there has forgotten, at least one someone, or they just don't care, because Jessica was less than human, to him, her, or them.

An enraged partner of an adulterous spouse? To set fire to a live human being? One of the first charecteristics of a true psychopath is the inability to cultivate and maintain relationships. I could see a jealous wife stabbing, shooting or choking a mistress without reservation, but burning her alive? Jessica died of thermal injury, not blunt force trauma, not asphyxiation, not blood loss, not complications from any of the above.

To hide the evidence of rape, or any evidence for that matter? The car was a complete burnout in my opinion. Jessica was there for at least 20 minutes. I'd say if they wanted to eradicate evidence they stayed behind at least long enough to see her exit the car, and would have at least crushed her skull with a boot if nothing else. She was left to languish as punishment.

You're looking for a person, or people who have a complete disconnect with humanity as a whole. Not sociopathic misfits. Someone who is so far removed from humanity they could sit and listen to that child screaming for mercy, and having no ears to hear it, or heart to feel it.

This wasn't an angry spouse, it wasn't a jealous boyfriend, It wasn't someone just trying to eradicate evidence. It was someone so disconnected from humanity that we can't understand their motivation. This wasn't an impulse crime, the few things we "know" don't corroborate with an impulse crime.

tl;dr synopsis, I believe that a psychopath or multiple psychopaths murdered Jessica based on preliminary reports. Reports provided before LE issued dummy up orders to preserve exposure on details of the crime.
This post should be a sticky....it's excellent. imoo


Do you think the perp was a stranger to Jessica?
 
This post should be a sticky....it's excellent. imoo

Do you think the perp was a stranger to Jessica?

A stickie, god no, I could be colossally wrong, and don't need anyone reminding me just how wrong I was. It's all conjecture on my part and I do have a counter argument for my own theory. However, psychopaths do tend to plan their crimes, and diminish evidence wherever possible. I do think it was planned, and setting the car on fire would appear to be a diminishing tactic.

No, this was personal, too intimate and too punitive a death in my opinion for it to be done by a stranger.
 
Wellll your post could be a 'thinkers' sticky...... giving others something to consider. :D

Who hated Jessica so much that they wanted her to suffer immensely?
 
Wellll your post could be a 'thinkers' sticky...... giving others something to consider. :D

Who hated Jessica so much that they wanted her to suffer immensely?

I don't think anyone could rationally answer that, if there were anyone that fit that description, they would be in custody. There is no rational level of hatred that escalates to let's burn the girl alive. It is in no possible way a rational act, it was an act of extreme hatred, or just symbolic punishment. I've really really hated some individuals in my life, I can't even imagine burning anyone alive, it's one of the things that drew me to this case. How could anyone possibly be so disconnected to make that decision, it's sickening to even think about it.
 
The problem I have with the accelerant being in her is without oxygen gasoline, kerosene, heating fuel, lighter fluid, will not burn as in flame but would burn as in a chemical burn. How would that be known without the autopsy reports?


The assailant may have poured accelerant down her throat and nose and set her on fire.

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2014/12/08/mississippi-woman-set-on-fire/20082929/
December 10, 2014

bbm

idk it's just that I think that the word may, may have been left out of some articles. jmo idk
 
The problem I have with the accelerant being in her is without oxygen gasoline, kerosene, heating fuel, lighter fluid, will not burn as in flame but would burn as in a chemical burn. How would that be known without the autopsy reports?


The assailant may have poured accelerant down her throat and nose and set her on fire.

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2014/12/08/mississippi-woman-set-on-fire/20082929/
December 10, 2014

bbm

idk it's just that I think that the word may, may have been left out of some articles. jmo idk

Ali Alsanai confirmed that he was informed by LE, they pour gasoline in her mouth and set her on fire. Ben Chambers cited medical professionals having said "she was burned so deep inside". The very act of breathing in would provide enough oxygen to ignite gasoline fumes if you're on fire, other accelerants aren't as volatile, and I'm not going to test the theory myself, but would say it's possible. A human body has a horrible aversion to toxic chemical compounds even when not forced to swallow them. Your body will immediately try to eject it and violently, with such force it will leave you through the nose and mouth.

At least half the time you're breathing, your lungs are full of air. When you're breathing fire in too, which lets face the ugly facts she was, you're breathing in oxygen and an igniter.
 
BBM

No one had to actively do anything to the car, just the fact that they had the opportunity to do so, will make any evidence related to the car cannon fodder for the defense attorney.

The evidence does not have to be altered, you only need prove that the possibility existed.

The way the vehicle was parked IIRC, one whole side of it was not visible from inside M&M.

If I was carrying a blood spattered shirt as evidence, and I exposed it to any circumstance where it could come in contact with any substance which would contaminate it, out of my direct line of sight, would you consider it possibly contaminated?

With respect, I have to disagree. The mere possibility that evidence could have been altered or tampered with is not sufficient. Tampering is usually the criminal law variant in which a person alters, conceals, falsifies, or destroys evidence to interfere with a law-enforcement investigation. Three important types of evidence in criminal proceedings are:

• confessional evidence- 'He told me that he did it'
• identification evidence- 'I saw him do it'
• circumstantial evidence- 'He must have done it'.

In criminal trials the standard of proof is higher than civil trials. Proof beyond reasonable doubt is proof that makes you firmly convinced of the defendant’s guilt. A possibility that something could have been contaminated is not sufficient and would be interpreted as speculation.
 
Thanks for the input here. I understand that having traditional 'electricity' isn't always an option for people. Is it just me, or wouldn't it be dangerous to run wood stove while using a generator? I could be completely off here, though... Also, I'm going to look around MSM for more pictures of BR (gas can man) flashing huge wads of cash. This was what had me questioning the gas generator in the first place...

Poverty and living paycheck to paycheck limits options to people living in rural areas. They heat with wood stoves because propane is so expensive, have limited or no refrigeration and rely on kerosene lanterns.
 
Thanks for the input here. I understand that having traditional 'electricity' isn't always an option for people. Is it just me, or wouldn't it be dangerous to run wood stove while using a generator? I could be completely off here, though... Also, I'm going to look around MSM for more pictures of BR (gas can man) flashing huge wads of cash. This was what had me questioning the gas generator in the first place...

bbm I don't know why? If you have a wood stove for heat and if you lose electric you can us a generator to keep the refrigerator and hot water going. Unless you don't read directions and have the generator operating inside the home I don't see a problem. jmo idk
 
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