Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia

Crabstick you pose the question "The sunflower still represents Celtic scared geometry. The girls must have something in common. Brownies? Scouts? Dance lessons? Yacht club?
What did they do the same?"

Answer: they all attended the Claremont club strip, Club Bayview and Continental Hotel. Two of the girls - Sarah and Jane - had attended the Ocean Beach Hotel the night the night of their abductions. It doesn't have to get too complicated. He just has to see them, perhaps meet them.

And the information you have written about what you called 'the old psych' is written in a manner that seems to be angry or something. I don't know what you are referring to when you write about entities and court. He hasn't done any framing on anyone else...he has just played out his game of catch me if you can...I am smarter than you all thing. He had been practicing and rehearsing for a long long time.

Fleur De Lis, the 3 lilies
The Spier, how? How did they??? Database? Been there before?



Spiers - the watcher or spear
Cutler - The knife maker
Glennon - The cloak or valley
Rimmer - Rymer

I bet there is a yacht off a headland. Stupid people sink them all the time. Cuz we have green eyes We are gonna get him. His son better not be involved. That will be a stick in the spokes.

Welcome, alwaysquestion! Your posts here have been very informative and interesting!

alwaysquestion said:

Crabstick you pose the question "The sunflower still represents Celtic scared geometry. The girls must have something in common. Brownies? Scouts? Dance lessons? Yacht club?
What did they do the same?"

Answer: they all attended the Claremont club strip, Club Bayview and Continental Hotel. Two of the girls - Sarah and Jane - had attended the Ocean Beach Hotel the night the night of their abductions. It doesn't have to get too complicated. He just has to see them, perhaps meet them.

Click to expand...

Yes! This is exactly right! It doesn't have to get too complicated with it being connected to days or rituals or anything like that. Often it is the most simple explanation, which is, in this case, most likely some guy took advantage of three ladies when they were out and he targeted them because they were young, beautiful, alone and in the Claremont area.

I won't post about it since it would be against the rules in more ways than one, but if you would like to know more about the person Mr. Coward told the police about, he wrote about it on the AFL/football forum I talked about a few pages back.

Quite often, serial killers don't use the simplest explanation. They are called serial killers because of meticulous planning. They don't call them zodiac killers etc because they just take random advantage of people.

No doubt a lot of information will come out in a court case. Technology is getting better but I don't think legacy databases like number plates have been clustered nationwide yet? There appears a lot of dodgy people jump state lines with interstate number plates not yet automatically scanned and checked on roads.

(modsnip)

always question (I will call you AQ for short): Am I right in observing that you do not discount Dixie as the killer? If there was no DNA found on the CSK victims, I wonder why there was such a massive drive to collect it at the time, from suspects directly linked to the CSK killings. It just seems odd, if there was nothing to compare it to, and I have always assumed there was at least *some* dna.

And Dixie is one of the people I would assume would be tested as expediently as possible. If he was NOT cleared by DNA, then that's a whole nother kettle of fish. I'd really like to be sure about that, though. He really is a brilliant suspect. And a fine example of what's become pretty much the stereotypical serial killer type, from what you've pointed out.

It's interesting that both you and crabstick have posited very deliberate choices of disposal sites, for what are probably very different reasons. As we're wielding Occam's Razor atm, could it not be as simple as picking areas he knew to be infrequently visited, so he might freely go back and visit the bodies, for example, or simply have a better chance of dumping the bodies, unobserved?

Nice cross Sally, seen in more than one pic, Coincidence maybe?



Notorious killer who murdered model Sally Ann Bowman in 2005 is linked to triple rape case in Spain which Dutchman has served 11 years behind bars for

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-served-11-years-bars-for.html#ixzz3PdOjTYDS
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

crabstick said:

Quite often, serial killers don't use the simplest explanation. They are called serial killers because of meticulous planning. They don't call them zodiac killers etc because they just take random advantage of people.

No doubt a lot of information will come out in a court case. Technology is getting better but I don't think legacy databases like number plates have been clustered nationwide yet? There appears a lot of dodgy people jump state lines with interstate number plates not yet automatically scanned and checked on roads.

(modsnip)

Click to expand...

The Cutler family will hold a memorial mass at Julie's former school Iona Presentation College
http://www.crimecasefiles.com/forum/missing-persons/22609-story-on-julie-cutler.html

Solomon 7 - Holy Ghost

Patrick Pearse, one of the leaders of the Easter Rising of 1916 when Ireland won its independence from England.

crabstick said:

Quite often, serial killers don't use the simplest explanation. They are called serial killers because of meticulous planning. They don't call them zodiac killers etc because they just take random advantage of people.

Click to expand...

I'm by no means an expert and I'm happy to be corrected. I agree that there is a lot of planning involved by serial killers, but the planning is usually done to avoid detection, dispose of the victim, what weapons are used, etc. Usually they go out to a place with killing on their mind and choose their victim at random based on their characteristics. While the details of the crime is planned, the act itself opportunistic and random. If he'd been 30 minutes later, Ted Bundy would've had a different victim to the one he got on that occasion. He wasn't bent on killing a particular girl, he just wanted a young, pretty girl, is what I'm saying. Just like I think if these girls had not been where they were, some other poor, young woman would've been the victim instead. But of course some differ and I think one that differs is the Zodiac Killer. While they were young couples, the acts didn't seem as opportunistic as other serial killers.

Well, in my opinion, it is often the most simplest explanation. You don't have to agree.

Do you know any serial killer or murders where the murderer has used rituals, religious imagery or any of the things you talk about? I'm very curious.

crabstick said:

The Cutler family will hold a memorial mass at Julie's former school Iona Presentation College
http://www.crimecasefiles.com/forum/missing-persons/22609-story-on-julie-cutler.html
View attachment 67990

Click to expand...

It's a shame Julie's been gone so long too! I wish they could find her too.

Do they think Julie's disappearance is linked to the CSK? This thread is the first time I'm hearing this.

Columba

Claremont - The brightest hill

http://www.claremont.wa.gov.au/Residents/Heritage.aspx
http://www.claremont.wa.gov.au/Community/Museum.aspx

hoshizora said:

Welcome, alwaysquestion! Your posts here have been very informative and interesting!

Yes! This is exactly right! It doesn't have to get too complicated with it being connected to days or rituals or anything like that. Often it is the most simple explanation, which is, in this case, most likely some guy took advantage of three ladies when they were out and he targeted them because they were young, beautiful, alone and in the Claremont area.

I won't post about it since it would be against the rules in more ways than one, but if you would like to know more about the person Mr. Coward told the police about, he wrote about it on the AFL/football forum I talked about a few pages back.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your kind words Hoshizora. I have been told some information about a taxi driver that lived off a road in the location of where Mr Coward is referring to. That has been reported to police early 2014. I don't like the way Mr Coward has gone about things either. He has also posted a blog article online with details he should never have published. In my opinion that was a very stupid and infantile action to take with no forethought of consequences that may eventuate.

I prefer a more scientific approach to examine why the Claremont perpetrator/s chose the final locations and the relevancy to those locations of the abduction sites. I think that these are the most important and relevant considerations in this whole sad and tragic story. The locations were chosen for a particular reason I am 100% certain of that.

I would be interested to see what your thoughts are on this?

crabstick said:

Quite often, serial killers don't use the simplest explanation. They are called serial killers because of meticulous planning. They don't call them zodiac killers etc because they just take random advantage of people.

Click to expand...

Really, very few serial killers fit the Hannibal Lecter psychopathic genius image. There's a few that have, and there's a great many who have not. Some killers with a relatively low IQ, some even approaching levels where they'd be considered "developmentally challenged", have evaded police through a series of murders due to poor police work, lack of police resources, sheer dumb luck, or just enough sense to forgo leaving their fingerprints anywhere obvious.

CSK doesn't have to be an evil genius to pick up girls, kill them and dump them somewhere remote. Dozens of stupid killers have done exactly that.

Of course, seeing that these girls were all young and pretty, and there's no visible evidence of forceful abduction, I feel a lot more confident in speculating about his level of attractiveness moreso than his level of intelligence.

hoshizora said:

I'm by no means an expert and I'm happy to be corrected. I agree that there is a lot of planning involved by serial killers, but the planning is usually done to avoid detection, dispose of the victim, what weapons are used, etc. Usually they go out to a place with killing on their mind and choose their victim at random based on their characteristics. While the details of the crime is planned, the act itself opportunistic and random. If he'd been 30 minutes later, Ted Bundy would've had a different victim to the one he got on that occasion. He wasn't bent on killing a particular girl, he just wanted a young, pretty girl, is what I'm saying. Just like I think if these girls had not been where they were, some other poor, young woman would've been the victim instead. But of course some differ and I think one that differs is the Zodiac Killer. While they were young couples, the acts didn't seem as opportunistic as other serial killers.

Well, in my opinion, it is often the most simplest explanation. You don't have to agree.

Do you know any serial killer or murders where the murderer has used rituals, religious imagery or any of the things you talk about? I'm very curious.

Click to expand...

Which Zodiac Killer are people referring to here; there are actually two lots of serial killings called 'zodiac' in America. The east coast based zodiac killer was named because of his predilection of planning and carrying out his murders on the exact time of sunrise. Apparently at the moment the sun starts to rise there is a triangular glow at the point on the horizon and that is what this killer worked his pattern on; for the life of me I can't recall the name to describe this sunrise event but someone here might know. The 2nd zodiac killer on the west coat of America is believed to have used a symbol used by astrologers to form his dump site pattern.

I disagree slightly with your proposition Hoshizora that the "acts are opportunistic and random". The Claremont perpetrator/s actions in my view, were not opportunistic nor random. Perhaps opportunistic in that when the girl appeared that had the look and presented him with 'availability' - each girl was alone - then he would strike. I believe the terrible rapes and assault incidents that preceded the abductions and murders were the work of this perpetrator as well. All these girls were alone in that they did not have current partners. I don't consider these attacks were random either - that is I don't think this perpetrator went out on a night and during that night he decided to attack. It is my opinion he went out on each night with a deliberate and intentional purpose. The night before would not count, the night after would not count. It is more than probably in my opinion, that the girls had met this killer socially on a prior occasion. I believe it highly probable that the Claremont perpetrator 'connected' his murders and sexual assaults, so that he was able to relive and increase 'his pleasure' as he progressed - each girl was later connected. The dump site locations also form part of this 'inter-connecting web that can never be broken'. He formed this deadly pattern and it now exists for eternity. How powerful must that be to the mind of this perpetrator?