MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #2

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Thank you, Trojan1966, for this insight. How are you doing, the family and all? Don't feel you have to be specific by any means, as it's asked with concern.
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
Was JT still a "strict disciplinarian" when Jennifer and Julia were adults (age 18), out of high school, and attending college?
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Both attended a community college before going to EMU. They did live at home until Jennifer moved to EMU and Julia moved in with her grandma. I have heard a story and I'm not sure about the time frame (probably high school), but both girls would straighten their hair with an apparatus. JT did not like the "smell" when they did this, so the girls would have to do it in the detached garage so he wouldn't smell this. They had to do this even in the winter with snow on the ground. The garage is not heated.
 
Thank you, Trojan1966. I am getting a picture of a domineering father who exercised total control over his "subjects". That example is frightening, and I shudder to think about the other rules and/or restrictions placed on the members of JT's household. This truly makes me question Jennifer's unwavering support for her stepfather. :rolleyes:
 
bessie said:
An impulsive act -- or "crime of passion" -- with no visible sign of injury, would be extremely rare, imo. The circumstances don't point to it at all. In fact, just the opposite. Again, JMO.
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Just about all the murders of young women here involved sexual attacks -- so Julia's death is different, and rare.

The belief here is that Julie was killed because she was going to speak out, or wouldn't be controlled...

She was killed without a fight leading up to her death (things that leave forensic evidence). Julia's killer had no intention of reasoning with her, instead appears this was like a mob style hit - a quick, heartless murder.

I'm sure there are no forensics to be found after all this time, so what's left to get justice for Julia - someone has to come forward and incriminate the killer - IMO explaining the pressure LE is placing upon the family...
 
Agree Old Steve. In my opinion, LE has their attention focused correctly. And I think more than the Perp knows more than they are saying....and it's really time for them to start working with LE! To do otherwise is self destructive, cowardly, and foolish. All my opinion, of course.
 
Julia's death is"rare" in regard to the circumstances, and appears to have been a planned, rather than an impulsive, act just as you said.
 
bessie said:
Actually, I deleted the part about the locked bedroom door because obviously that was done to prevent a suitemate from wandering in to find her. It's still a little odd, though, because it was inevitable that her body would be discovered. So did the killer want to buy time, or was that to spare the suitemates from the horror?

I believe she knew the person and let him/her in. But certainly wearing a hooded jacket would have served as something of a disguise to neighbors who might've caught a glimpse of the killer coming and going. Wonder where the suitemates were that day. Who would know their routines or their cars to determine if they were home.

ETA: Julia Niswender was last seen around 5 p.m. Dec. 9, 2012, as she left work at Wal-Mart in Saline. Her roommates called police after not hearing from her for two days. She had two female roommates, and one had gone home for the weekend and the other was "in and out," Jennifer Niswender said.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...tepfather-slain-emu-student-custody/24377593/

In light of recent events, this statement stands out.

"Our worst fear is that when we find out who did it that it's someone that we know," said Jim.

http://www.fox4news.com/story/20808203/emu-student-julia-niswender-murdered-medical-examiner-rules
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I thought the locked door was to try and make it look like it was just a tragic accident, maybe as a result of her medical condition and that she had been alone the whole time. Locked from the inside would "aappear" no one else had left the room or been inside with her.
 
Criminal Justice mom said:
I thought the locked door was to try and make it look like it was just a tragic accident, maybe as a result of her medical condition and that she had been alone the whole time. Locked from the inside would "aappear" no one else had left the room or been inside with her.
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The door was locked. It is a dead bolt type that requires a key to lock or unlock it from the outside. So whoever did this locked the door with a key when they left the room and one would assume they took the key with them.
 
Trojan1966 said:
The door was locked. It is a dead bolt type that requires a key to lock or unlock it from the outside. So whoever did this locked the door with a key when they left the room and one would assume they took the key with them.
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Well...my oh my, that certainly does (theoretically) reduce the suspect list. Of course, someone could have taken the key and made a copy, but unlikely. Sounds like our perp made a serious misstep. MOO.
 
rosesfromangels said:
Well...my oh my, that certainly does (theoretically) reduce the suspect list. Of course, someone could have taken the key and made a copy, but unlikely. Sounds like our perp made a serious misstep. MOO.
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But the perp probably just took Julia's key to lock it, right?
Does anyone know whether Julia had a habit of locking her bedroom when she is leaving or not?
People who trust their roommates might not feel that it is necessary to lock the bedroom door.
Julia might not have been carrying the key on her. Perhaps the perp had to search for the key
which might explain that the room was in disarray.
 
I don't want to exclude the possibility of an impulsive act. The lack of evidence of a struggle
does not mean that there wasn't any. Strangulation often does not leave marks on the neck.
Minor marks may have been overlooked at first sight. A victim might loose conscience fairly
quickly, depending on how the victim is strangled.

One should also not exclude the possibility that the attack was sexual. Julia was partially
undressed according to reports. A male friend could have flipped out after his sexual advances
were rejected.

It is hard to quantify how likely such scenario's are but the probability is certainly more than 0, IMO.
 
I'm sure LE is evaluating all possibilities, and you are right, they should be evaluated.
I have been doing some research (without yet coming to any firm conclusions) on strangulations. That is, where we have case histories where we know the circumstances, and even motives. I keep coming back to being controlled, and being silenced. I need to keep researching this, I am just scratching the surface. There's tons of criminal psychology papers, and they are complex and take time to sift through. I'm still looking for statistics.
 
black_squirrel said:
But the perp probably just took Julia's key to lock it, right?
Does anyone know whether Julia had a habit of locking her bedroom when she is leaving or not?
People who trust their roommates might not feel that it is necessary to lock the bedroom door.
Julia might not have been carrying the key on her. Perhaps the perp had to search for the key
which might explain that the room was in disarray.
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I believe the room key was normally on her key ring and that key was missing when the LE arrived. Normally, during the day she and her room mates would lock their doors when they were not there. Just a good way to keep your "stuff" safe, you never know who will come to the apartment with a room mate. Just some of my thoughts.
 
black_squirrel said:
I don't want to exclude the possibility of an impulsive act. The lack of evidence of a struggle
does not mean that there wasn't any. Strangulation often does not leave marks on the neck.
Minor marks may have been overlooked at first sight. A victim might loose conscience fairly
quickly, depending on how the victim is strangled.

One should also not exclude the possibility that the attack was sexual. Julia was partially
undressed according to reports. A male friend could have flipped out after his sexual advances
were rejected.

It is hard to quantify how likely such scenario's are but the probability is certainly more than 0, IMO.
Click to expand...

As far as I know or have read, there was no signs of sex but nothing to say that it may have been the reason and someone went way too far. The strangulation caused her to go unconscious after which she was put in the tub. Whoever did this, must have been very good at it as the Julia I knew would have put up a heck of a fight. Evidently there were no signs of a struggle which really surprised me when I heard that.
 
Which leads me to wonder what the tox report stated. Were there drugs of any kind found in her system? Yes, this sounds like someone very ninja-like. I did, however, seem to remember it being stated that the room was in disarray. Did that seem consistent with a struggle, or were they looking for something, like the key? I find the fact that they locked the door on the way out particularly interesting, and telegraphs premeditation. Meaning, they knew of her medical condition and were trying to feign her death attributed to that? Again, to me, the door being locked is particularly notable, and the fact the key was gone is doubly so. Further, the fact no one heard anything is curious as well. Was her room situated in a manner that would have isolated sounds to some degree? One thing seems apparent to me, whomever did this had it well planned out, and executed their "mission" with skill. But why? What did Julia know that required her to be silenced? Had she had recent arguments with anyone that we know of? I really think we need to go back to Jennifer for more answers there. I can't imagine her twin not knowing about any significant concern her twin had.
 
Thank you, Trojan1966, for all the information about the door and so much more. I don't want to give his defense an edge so please don't answer this if you think it would, as I have no way of judging what would or wouldn't, as I ask questions. The timing of when Julia was no longer seen again, soon after having had lunch with Jen, over a weekend, left there, her car unmoved, thus no risk of people noticing before she was due at work or school, not called in by family but a roommate, all said to me from the start that it was somebody who may have been trying to use time to create distance from their movements. It makes sense now that it may have been somebody whose time would be up for question who had the means, thus access, time, and capacity to do a ninja type kill, as well.

What did the timing of how she was found say to you over time?
 
FindHG said:
Thank you, Trojan1966, for all the information about the door and so much more. I don't want to give his defense an edge so please don't answer this if you think it would, as I have no way of judging what would or wouldn't, as I ask questions. The timing of when Julia was no longer seen again, soon after having had lunch with Jen, over a weekend, left there, her car unmoved, thus no risk of people noticing before she was due at work or school, not called in by family but a roommate, all said to me from the start that it was somebody who may have been trying to use time to create distance from their movements. It makes sense now that it may have been somebody whose time would be up for question who had the means, thus access, time, and capacity to do a ninja type kill, as well.

What did the timing of how she was found say to you over time?
Click to expand...

I don't know what the actual time line is but I've constructed one that seems to indicate this being done between late Sunday night and early Monday morning. Since this building houses primarily college students I came to some conclusions...... Since this was the time very near "finals"( Julia had mentioned to her sister that she wanted to study), most students would not have been out too late in bars and such. Also, this being the case, there would be less chance of a person leaving the area and being seen if it was let's say between 2 and 5 AM. Her apartment was on the first floor and not too far from a building exit, thus less chance of seeing anyone while leaving. Drowning her in a bath tub could possibly help by covering or confusing some of the evidence. My question is :"How much water was in the tub when LE found her?" I would imagine over a few days, some if not all of the water may have "leaked" out. That's JMO. The TOX report has not been released to the public, so I'm very curious as to what is says.
 
IIRC, Turnquist has a court appearance today. Anyone know what time? Also, I think parents are due in probate court re: 12-year-old daughter.
 
Trojan1966 said:
I don't know what the actual time line is but I've constructed one that seems to indicate this being done between late Sunday night and early Monday morning. Since this building houses primarily college students I came to some conclusions...... Since this was the time very near "finals"( Julia had mentioned to her sister that she wanted to study), most students would not have been out too late in bars and such. Also, this being the case, there would be less chance of a person leaving the area and being seen if it was let's say between 2 and 5 AM. Her apartment was on the first floor and not too far from a building exit, thus less chance of seeing anyone while leaving. Drowning her in a bath tub could possibly help by covering or confusing some of the evidence. My question is :"How much water was in the tub when LE found her?" I would imagine over a few days, some if not all of the water may have "leaked" out. That's JMO. The TOX report has not been released to the public, so I'm very curious as to what is says.
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I imagine that the tub would be empty by the time LE found her. I believe they said that the tox report was "inconclusive".
I wonder about that wording. If it had been normal, wouldn't they have said "normal"? And if it is inconclusive, what
is it inconclusive about. That seems to refer to some specific question they were asking themselves. I wonder if she
suffocated/lost conscience because of inhalation or injection of some substance.
 
I think the ninja capabilities of JT may be overestimated. I myself am a black belt in Tae Kwon Do,
but have little knowledge and no experience in how to kill someone effectively. This is, because my
training targets mostly self-defense, physical health and flexibility, use of proper style. It hardly
involves any actual fighting, and if it does we are all wearing pads and use control so that we do
not hurt each other. This is very different from the mixed martial arts fighting that one sees in UFC.
The martial arts school of JT seems similar to mine. It emphasizes the positive aspects of martial
arts and is very suitable for children as well.

He may or may not have the ninja skills to kill effectively, but he probably would not have learned
it in his martial arts training. From an interview it is clear that JT joined the martial arts
because of his physical health. It helped him with back pain.
 
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