MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #2

FindHG said:

Everything about Julia's murder says precise, controlled and planned. The person who went in there had reason to well before they went in to kill her, it seems to me. Something set her apart from her sister and mom. It seems to have been Turnquist's need for control. What couldn't he control about Julia, possibly? She was said to worked at the at a tanning salon with her sister, with Turnquist on cleaning jobs, and at Walmart. Did she do all three things until she was killed? What set her apart? Did she stop working at the tanning salon or with Turnquist? Did Julia get wind of something or know something he could not trust her to keep hidden? Of course she did, it seems to me.


Trojan1966 - forgive my callousness in discussing your loved ones. I'm very sorry as I think this may hurt you to consider.

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I believe that Julia quit working at the tanning salon once she entered EMU. According to her friends, she would help JT from time to time doing "cleaning" jobs in the Ypsi area to earn some extra money. The one thing that set Julia apart from Jennifer was the fact that she was not afraid to voice her opinions and she was a "get in your face" type of girl. This maybe what lead to what happened to her. She very easily could have made someone "mad" and that someone decided to get even. Just another possibility.

rosesfromangels said:

Without giving too much info out that could help the Perp, I hope that our LE team has the best technology experts working to trace *all* of the POI's activity. What is found on his computer is nothing compared to what could reside elsewhere, and have been transmitting through "secure" means....as well as anything associated with those close around him.

I'm going to be particularly interested in learning how closely he is (if he is) tied to the man in Monroe that was busted for child *advertiser censored*. Why do I think we have just seen the tip of the ice berg?

Much more to follow, no doubt. I really wish the wife would start cooperating with LE, give a formal statement, take a poly, etc. If she feels she needs immunity for something, she should work on that. But how can she not cooperate fully? Have I misunderstood and she is? I am truly, truly baffled by the actions of the wife. What has she got to hide? She needs to be completely transparent with LE.

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According to his wife, she has been cooperating all along. According to LE they want a formal statement. I do know that both she and JT have sat down together and separately talked to FBI investigators. What was actually said, I don't know but this has happened. According to my daughter, JT got a lawyer once LE started investigating his family and his background. I beleive his family actually advised him to get a lawyer as they felt that LE was targeting him.
About the other child *advertiser censored* case in Monroe.....I have not heard of any connection yet. JT's pretrial is scheduled for April 10th, so maybe we'll hear more after that. It does seem to be quite a coincidence that after taking his computer LE bust this other guy a few days later.

bessie - The authorities have not released the toxicology report since Julia's death, so I have to wonder what was said in that. It may contain some clues as to what happened. JMO

Trojan, while I don't have the words to properly convey my feelings to you, I just feel a need to say thank you for helping us through all this and for putting up with our thoughts and speculations. Please know that we do not like discussing things that may be upsetting to you, but are doing everything we can to bring justice for your precious Julia. We may be right or wrong, but all is said with love and concern. Julia's death has become very personal to us, and we want answers, probably as much as you. You are such a wonderful grandfather/man. Your love shines through. Bless you, dear one.

I do not think that the crime scene was staged. The room was in disarray according to reports which suggests that this was not an accident.
It was said at one point that some items were missing. If the perp wanted to stage an accident, (s)he would make the room appear as
normal as possible. LE said from the beginning that the scene looked like foul play.

Two days later, on Dec. 11, police discovered her body. She was found in an unnatural position in her bathtub, although there were no obvious signs of trauma to her body, such as bruising. Police found no signs of forced entry.

But the scene pointed to foul play.

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Investigators said Niswender's locked room was in disarray, and some items were missing when police arrived at the home she shared with two others.

Authorities began to process the crime scene, collecting forensic evidence along the way.

"We don't believe burglary was a motive," Ypsilanti police Detective Joseph Yuhas said.

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http://archive.freep.com/article/20...t-waiting-for-answers-justice-Julia-Niswender

I wonder what items were taken. Perhaps her key. Do we know if her cell phone or her computer were taken?

https://instagram.com/p/SRIXj4SYRp/ (can we post such a link?) --- Julia posted that she won Dr. Dre beats headphones and iPod Touch from Peninsular Place drawing. I wonder if either of these were missing. She had intended to sell the Touch.

As for the room being in disarray, I wonder how neat Julia was with her apartment. Many kids just strew their clothes about, and stack papers, books, etc, leave items on the floor. I remember how messy my kids rooms got unless I asked them to clean it up. How much disarray would raise a red flag as to having been done by an outsider?

http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsilanti/julia-niswenders-cause-of-death-released/ According to this article, only a "couple items were missing".

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/23973598/new-tips-sought-in-death-of-emu-student-julia-niswender police do not believe robbery was a motive because several items of significant value were still in the apartment.

Since Julia was aware of her syncope disorder, she was probably well aware of an impending fainting spell. I've fainted a handful of times in my life and know that there are foreshadowing symptoms: dizziness, feelings of unsteadiness, an "aura" (funny smell), spots or stars in visual field, etc. In two instances, I could have been seriously injured (or worse) if someone had not "caught" me as I slipped into a minute or two of unconsciousness.

Julia's perp was most likely aware of her tendencies towards fainting and knew that she could be subdued and rendered unconscious. The perpetrator probably studied the moves needed to incapacitate his/her victim. The act was strategic and stealthy, leaving Julia no time to surrender, defend herself, or protect herself from injury. :moo:

It would be interesting to know "how" it was in disarray. I keep thinking that perhaps the perp panicked because they couldn't exit thru the window and knew they'd have to take her key and go thru the door and lock it behind them.

dmc43613 said:

It would be interesting to know "how" it was in disarray. I keep thinking that perhaps the perp panicked because they couldn't exit thru the window and knew they'd have to take her key and go thru the door and lock it behind them.

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This statement presumes that Julia's bedroom was typically neat and tidy. Do we know this for a fact? College students aren't the neatest folks on the planet, especially someone who is a full-time student, participating in extracurricular activities, working part-time, engaged in an active social life, not to mention that final exams were looming. Been there, done that. Beds go unmade, laundry doesn't get done, pulling all-nighters to finish papers and/or study. Unless you're OCD, neatness is not a priority. That the bedroom was in "disarray" doesn't mean that the perp made it that way. :moo:

I've always thought it interesting that it was described that way, like it wasn't the typical young persons "disarray". I'm thinking if there was a ledge or maybe a desk or dresser under the window and it was rearranged as if someone was trying to make an escape. If it wasn't someone that knew the girls in the apartment, such a huge risk exiting and being caught...unless of course it was someone that lived or frequented the apartment.

Trojan1966 said:

bessie - The authorities have not released the toxicology report since Julia's death, so I have to wonder what was said in that. It may contain some clues as to what happened. JMO

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But wasn't it said that the tox report was inconclusive in determining COD? That means it gave them no clues because there was nothing unusual about the results. That's why they're still baffled over the method of asphyxiation.

JMO

bessie said:

But wasn't it said that the tox report was inconclusive in determining COD? That means it gave them no clues because there was nothing unusual about the results. That's why they're still baffled over the method of asphyxiation.

JMO

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Maybe the tox report indicates more than they are revealing to the public. Perhaps it is something that the killer would only know (i.e. inhaling cleaning products). Or it was inconclusive at the time the article was written but they sent the sample to an outside specialty lab for more in depth testing.

According to all the articles I have checked, the toxicology reports were inconclusive/yielded not conclusive results. Perhaps there could still be a substance that could not be identified?

Just adding some old info from this article, dated November 17, 2013.


--"She was not deceased (beforehand,") Yuhas said. "It's never been determined (if she was unconscious.) But, she was definitely asphyxiated and then drowned."

--Investigators declined to say whether Julia's keys were in the room. Julia's bedroom door was locked from the inside, but her bathroom door was unlocked.

--The family remains frustrated with certain parts of the investigation, including the fact they still don't have a copy of the toxicology report, which was deemed inconclusive.

"We don't have a copy," Jim said. "All we have is the death certificate. This is where we start to get pissed off. We get really frustrated."

--The family questions why the complex, which is heavily populated with students, has no security camera system, except one camera in the main office.

--Kim said. "I need to know everything. There's a part of me that understands we can only know so much. The selfish part of me says I don’t care. We will never be able to truly deal with her death until we know. Why can't we know? Help us start to work on some closure."

--

Yuhas said there are still details that cannot be shared regarding the case -- even with the family.
"In order to protect the integrity of the investigation, we really want to keep some of those details to ourselves," Yuhas said.

--Knowing Julia's personality, she does fight," Jim said. "She's not one to allow someone to take advantage of her. I believe she knew the person.

And this one from January 30, 2013, http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/01/30/emu-students-death-ruled-homicide-cause-unknown/

--Police say toxicology results “have yielded no conclusive information” on how she died. Police say there were no outward signs of trauma to the body.

black_squirrel said:

I do not think that the crime scene was staged. The room was in disarray according to reports which suggests that this was not an accident.
It was said at one point that some items were missing. If the perp wanted to stage an accident, (s)he would make the room appear as
normal as possible. LE said from the beginning that the scene looked like foul play.





http://archive.freep.com/article/20...t-waiting-for-answers-justice-Julia-Niswender

I wonder what items were taken. Perhaps her key. Do we know if her cell phone or her computer were taken?

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As far as I know, nothing of value was taken other than the key. Burglary did not seem to be a motive.

BetteDavisEyes said:

This statement presumes that Julia's bedroom was typically neat and tidy. Do we know this for a fact? College students aren't the neatest folks on the planet, especially someone who is a full-time student, participating in extracurricular activities, working part-time, engaged in an active social life, not to mention that final exams were looming. Been there, done that. Beds go unmade, laundry doesn't get done, pulling all-nighters to finish papers and/or study. Unless you're OCD, neatness is not a priority. That the bedroom was in "disarray" doesn't mean that the perp made it that way. :moo:

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I don't know exactly what the room looked like, but I do know that Julia was not the neatest person in the world unless she was expecting company!

Trojan1966 said:

I don't know exactly what the room looked like, but I do know that Julia was not the neatest person in the world unless she was expecting company!

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:giggle: Typical college girl, I would say. A thanks for that tidbit, Trojan. It makes her all the more "personal" to me.

Spellbound said:

:giggle: Typical college girl, I would say. A thanks for that tidbit, Trojan. It makes her all the more "personal" to me.

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I always lived in the dorm and kept my "side" of the room (bed, closet, drawers, desk) reasonably neat. Can't say the same for assorted roommates or suitemates

Spellbound said:

--Knowing Julia's personality, she does fight," Jim said. "She's not one to allow someone to take advantage of her. I believe she knew the person. .

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Respectfully snipped.
Yes, Mr. Turnquist, I agree with you. She *did* know the person. IMO and speculation, only.
Funny what people will say, isn't it?

Suppose that Julia let someone into the apartment after 10:30pm. Who could this be? Most likely someone she knew, of course. But even then....people don't just drop in
at that time of the night. If she was expecting someone to come, there would have been some communication before that. In fact it would be likely that she called, texted or emailed
that person. I presume that LE has checked those, and tracked her phone/email/texts. Even if JT was the person, it would be strange for him to drop by that late. And if
the accusations of abuse are true, she probably would not have let him in at that time of night.

I wonder if there is a person with which she communicated in some way without using her regular email/phone. This is perhaps why the room was in disarray. The perp wanted to make
sure that nothing in the room could be tracked to him/her, so the room was thoroughly searched. No notebooks with phone numbers/addresses, no items that the perp gave to Julia etc.
Perhaps someone is involved who knew Julia, but whose identity is not known to LE.

black_squirrel said:

Suppose that Julia let someone into the apartment after 10:30pm. Who could this be? Most likely someone she knew, of course. But even then....people don't just drop in
at that time of the night. If she was expecting someone to come, there would have been some communication before that. In fact it would be likely that she called, texted or emailed
that person. I presume that LE has checked those, and tracked her phone/email/texts. Even if JT was the person, it would be strange for him to drop by that late. And if
the accusations of abuse are true, she probably would not have let him in at that time of night.

I wonder if there is a person with which she communicated in some way without using her regular email/phone. This is perhaps why the room was in disarray. The perp wanted to make
sure that nothing in the room could be tracked to him/her, so the room was thoroughly searched. No notebooks with phone numbers/addresses, no items that the perp gave to Julia etc.
Perhaps someone is involved who knew Julia, but whose identity is not known to LE.

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I agree. I keep going back to a guy her age. Maybe someone she knew through her roommates. Maybe he even came by and said he was there to see a roommate and could he wait. They knew each other well, he was into her and they got to talking and I have several theories from there.