MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #2

Spellbound · Apr 8, 2015

black_squirrel said:
http://archive.freep.com/article/20...t-waiting-for-answers-justice-Julia-Niswender

(This article is from April 2013, after Jim T. did his polygraph test.)

SBM:

According to the article, people passed the polygraph before this date (April 2013), but at some point after the polygraphs, LE had reason to request another on-the-record-interview which JT has refused. It seems they know Julia's activities during the days prior, and would like to know more about the activities of others close to the investigation center. LE will almost always start with the immediate family of a victim and work out. That does not surprise me at all. However, most families will be cooperative, above and beyond what is requested, without hesitation. "WHY does he hesitate?", would be my question. It makes it appear he is covering up something, whether knowledge he knows will help, or something that might indicate another person's involvement? It isn't entirely impossible to think LE has nothing much to go on and are hopeful that by getting a more credible report (signed, on-the-record) will possibly bring another clue as to where they can look next.

From the linked article, snippits:

"We've also polygraphed numerous people," Yuhas said. "Everyone that has been polygraphed at this point has not only cooperated with the investigation but passed the polygraph."

Police executed more than 10 search warrants, including ones on social media accounts and homes.

Police also have retraced the final days of Niswender's life. And they've gone back to interview people who knew her years ago, looking for clues."We have a pretty good idea of her behavior for the three or four days prior to her death," Yuhas said. "There's really nothing that stands out that would point to anything of any significance."

black_squirrel · Apr 8, 2015

DazednConfuzed09 said:
Has anyone on here been to Ypsilanti? Would you worry if your child lived there? I know I sure would. Does anyone know the crime stats through 2012?

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Ypsilanti-Michigan.html

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2013/12/peninsular_place.html

Has anyone posted this article before regarding a 2nd murder in the Peninsular Place apartments within 4 months of Julia's? Has anyone heard about a girl being shot while inside her building from a stray bullet fired from the parking lot of the same apartment complex? Sounds like a safe place to live doesn't it?!

I know Ypsilanti quite well. I don't live there, but my son goes to a high-school in Ypsilanti. The crime rate is high compared to Ann Arbor, and more than the national average. On the other hand, it is low compared to Detroit or Flint. I never really felt unsafe in Ypsilanti. Peninsular Place has gotten a bad rep because a lot of bad stuff has happened there. It seems that this is not a good neighborhood. I don't think I would want my children to live there.

Spellbound · Apr 8, 2015

black_squirrel said:
The closest family to Julia Niswender and Jim Turnquist are Jennifer and Kim. They both stand behind Jim.
I do not know if Jim is innocent, but the fact that Jennifer and Kim stand behind him should bear some weight.
It is hard to imagine that Jennifer would betray her dear twin sister just to protect her stepfather. People keep saying here why would they support Jim? Perhaps the answer is just simple: because they are sure he is innocent.

But who knows, perhaps they were "brainwashed", but I find that hard to believe. I am willing to admit that
I don't know whether Jim is innocent or not. Right now I am leaning more towards "not". But that could
rapidly change if there were some convincing evidence.

Those closest to a perpetrator have been known to stand by him/her, so I don't give any more weight to Kim or Jennifer's support of JT than I would to a grandparent, good friend, or brother/sister. I have a relative whose husband was sent to prison for sexually abusing the baby daughters and when he got out .......... she took him back into the home because she believed he was innocent! I find that repulsive, and inappropriate; and brainwashed or not I cannot condone it. Why would I be any less inclined to believe that Kim and Jennifer want so badly to believe that JT is totally innocent, yet sometime down the road we find out that he really did have involvement? I can't do that. I can feel suspicion, concern, unknowns, but nothing has given me any reason to believe he is guilty or innocent of all the suspicions he has brought onto himself. I have never called him out as being "guilty" of killing Julia --- but do believe LE when they say they want an official, signed interview and he will not cooperate with that. That bothers me deeply.

Spellbound · Apr 8, 2015

black_squirrel said:
I know Ypsilanti quite well. I don't live there, but my son goes to a high-school in Ypsilanti. The crime rate is high compared to Ann Arbor, and more than the national average. On the other hand, it is low compared to Detroit or Flint. I never really felt unsafe in Ypsilanti. Peninsular Place has gotten a bad rep because a lot of bad stuff has happened there. It seems that this is not a good neighborhood. I don't think I would want my children to live there.

I agree with your description. The area of Peninsular Place was even worse before the apartments were built, but that has had a bad reputation for quite some time. Parts of Ypsi are pretty nice, others I would not want to visit. When I was young, it was a very nice place to go downtown shopping and having lunch.

rosesfromangels · Apr 8, 2015

black_squirrel said:
The closest family to Julia Niswender and Jim Turnquist are Jennifer and Kim. They both stand behind Jim.
I do not know if Jim is innocent, but the fact that Jennifer and Kim stand behind him should bear some weight.
It is hard to imagine that Jennifer would betray her dear twin sister just to protect her stepfather. People keep saying here why would they support Jim? Perhaps the answer is just simple: because they are sure he is innocent.

But who knows, perhaps they were "brainwashed", but I find that hard to believe. I am willing to admit that
I don't know whether Jim is innocent or not. Right now I am leaning more towards "not". But that could
rapidly change if there were some convincing evidence.

Your remarks are fair and balanced. No one wants to think Julia's stepfather is involved in any way. It's a horrid thought. I think those of us who are looking at him with suspicion are eagerly awaiting him working closely with LE to change that perception.

rosesfromangels · Apr 8, 2015

FindHG said:
Turnquist is in jail for indecency charges and a POI in Julia's murder. Is he worthy of defense on this thread any more? There has been just that directly or indirectly since the thread was started, upfront or not, is it to go on in this vein? We all know the deal, TOS, decency, where does it go from here?

I think that while attempting to be helpful, some of Turnquist's supporters are doing him much more harm that good. MOO.

FindHG · Apr 8, 2015

rosesfromangels said:
I think that while attempting to be helpful, some of Turnquist's supporters are doing him much more harm that good. MOO.

I agree with you rosesfromangels. Says something about mind set and judgement and it is sad. My respect for Trojan1966's patience and wisdom grows daily.

1&2&3 · Apr 8, 2015

I've been thinking of this point for awhile, but hesitant to bring it up. Since it appears this case is it a standstill, I am going to throw it out. Is it possible that after Jennifer had lunch with Julia on her last day alive, that JT got information from Jennifer on Julia's plans for the evening? Did JT suggest that Jennifer meet Julia for lunch that day and tell her what questions he wanted her to ask?

Of course, JT would have been using his sly charming side when talking with Jennifer so she would not suspect anything. Afterwards, Jennifer would question not only herself but ask JT. He would be so reassuring and convincing about himself and tell her not to feel guilty because she "knew they were both home in bed asleep" when Julia was murdered. This could be why Jennifer's allegiance to JT is so strong. IMO and speculation.

black_squirrel · Apr 8, 2015

Spellbound said:
Those closest to a perpetrator have been known to stand by him/her, so I don't give any more weight to Kim or Jennifer's support of JT than I would to a grandparent, good friend, or brother/sister. I have a relative whose husband was sent to prison for sexually abusing the baby daughters and when he got out .......... she took him back into the home because she believed he was innocent! I find that repulsive, and inappropriate; and brainwashed or not I cannot condone it. Why would I be any less inclined to believe that Kim and Jennifer want so badly to believe that JT is totally innocent, yet sometime down the road we find out that he really did have involvement? I can't do that. I can feel suspicion, concern, unknowns, but nothing has given me any reason to believe he is guilty or innocent of all the suspicions he has brought onto himself. I have never called him out as being "guilty" of killing Julia --- but do believe LE when they say they want an official, signed interview and he will not cooperate with that. That bothers me deeply.

If your relative's husband was sent to prison, there probably was some evidence that he was guilty.
In the case if JT, there is no evidence that we know of that he is guilty of murder or abuse. I think it is natural for family to stand by their relative if there are accusations but no proof.
(There is some evidence in the child *advertiser censored* charges, but from the descriptions received so far it is not clear if it will actually prove that he is guilty of child *advertiser censored* possession. )

FindHG · Apr 8, 2015

1&2&3 said:
I've been thinking of this point for awhile, but hesitant to bring it up. Since it appears this case is it a standstill, I am going to throw it out. Is it possible that after Jennifer had lunch with Julia on her last day alive, that JT got information from Jennifer on Julia's plans for the evening? Did JT suggest that Jennifer meet Julia for lunch that day and tell her what questions he wanted her to ask?

Of course, JT would have been using his sly charming side when talking with Jennifer so she would not suspect anything. Afterwards, Jennifer would question not only herself but ask JT. He would be so reassuring and convincing about himself and tell her not to feel guilty because she "knew they were both home in bed asleep" when Julia was murdered. This could be why Jennifer's allegiance to JT is so strong. IMO and speculation.

Yes. Had the same notion, but you've thought it through much further and it makes perfect sense, plus you express it so well. Thank you for sharing this.

Spellbound · Apr 8, 2015

black_squirrel said:
If your relative's husband was sent to prison, there probably was some evidence that he was guilty.
In the case if JT, there is no evidence that we know of that he is guilty of murder or abuse. I think it is natural for family to stand by their relative if there are accusations but no proof.
(There is some evidence in the child *advertiser censored* charges, but from the descriptions received so far it is not clear if it will actually prove that he is guilty of child *advertiser censored* possession. )

good points, and true. thank you. It is a natural reaction. And I can honestly say I don't know how I would react if this were my own family situation. I would hope I could be open to any and all possibilities, but would be torn by the idea of a family member being a part of the death in any way. Would I do my best to ignore such a thought? Probably. I would demand some "proof", I think.

FindHG · Apr 8, 2015

Spellbound said:
good points, and true. thank you. It is a natural reaction. And I can honestly say I don't know how I would react if this were my own family situation. I would hope I could be open to any and all possibilities, but would be torn by the idea of a family member being a part of the death in any way. Would I do my best to ignore such a thought? Probably. I would demand some "proof", I think.

I think Kim and Jen are in a place that the idea of doing so, not ignoring the thought, would be shattering. They may need the time and distance to know that they'll be fine and better without him, for their courage to grasp the path of justice in this, as it seems to be moving, would be my guess, Spellie.

Trojan1966 · Apr 8, 2015

Spellbound said:
good points, and true. thank you. It is a natural reaction. And I can honestly say I don't know how I would react if this were my own family situation. I would hope I could be open to any and all possibilities, but would be torn by the idea of a family member being a part of the death in any way. Would I do my best to ignore such a thought? Probably. I would demand some "proof", I think.

This is exactly how I feel. I'd like to see some "hard" proof that JT was involved. So far, everything seems to be circumstantial which will not hold up in a trial. Deep down, no one wants to admit to themselves that a family member could be responsible for such a thing but at the same time realizing that things like this have happened in the past to other families. So, I'll continue to be neutral but try to pass on any factual information I can. Eventually I hope and pray that we will have Justice for Julia.

hockeymom4 · Apr 8, 2015

I agree with what black squirrel is saying about standing by someone potentially without proof. I am talking in general. Not specific cases when I make that statement. I watch Dateline every week. A few months ago, a father was arrested and convicted of murdering his wife. The evidence, IMO, was overwhelming. The children, adults, stood by the father, still proclaiming his innocence. I felt for their mom. This often happens. My Uncle has a rap sheet a mile long. Throughout his teen and adult life he was arrested yearly even with offenses against his mom, exwife and current wife, they all justified and said he was innocent. He was NOT.

I think sometimes people can't admit that people could do bad. Other times, they need to see the facts before turning their backs on them. I am one on the latter. I would have a very hard time turning my back on someone until I was certain they were guilty because what if they were not.

I shared this story on another thread awhile ago. A few moths ago, a young girl accused her stepfather of molesting her. He had a very established career and was very well known in the community and schools, although not a teacher. He was very well respected and his job demands respect and authority. Word spread very quickly, unfortunately and everyone, naturally belived her. I mean, why would they not and why would she make this up?! Well, he ended up committing suicide. Everyone continued to chatter and degrade him saying well that proves he is guilty. Though some ppl who knew him, just didn't believe it. Sure enough, her story didn't add up and she admitted she made it up. She had lied because she was jealous of the time her mom was spending with him and wanted her back to just the two of them. Wow...is what we all felt. Now, I do believe he must have had other demons, but the fact that he felt no one would believe him, just broke the hearts of many. But, barely anyone did believe him. I guess my point here is that after that, I learned to stick with following facts. Also, understand that family may always believe their loved ones. There is nothing wrong this. Nothing at all.

Trojan1966 · Apr 8, 2015

black_squirrel said:
I know Ypsilanti quite well. I don't live there, but my son goes to a high-school in Ypsilanti. The crime rate is high compared to Ann Arbor, and more than the national average. On the other hand, it is low compared to Detroit or Flint. I never really felt unsafe in Ypsilanti. Peninsular Place has gotten a bad rep because a lot of bad stuff has happened there. It seems that this is not a good neighborhood. I don't think I would want my children to live there.

I agree with you, I now know that Ypsilanti does have a high crime rate. Julia's apartment was right across the street from the EMU campus. When we visited there, Jennifer was living in Pittman Hall (on campus) and Julia's apartment was just across a large parking lot and a busy road from there. During the daylight hours, everything looked fine. There's even a small park area near a small dam across the river near there which seemed nice. We went to the downtown area for lunch and it was very pleasant. Little did we realize what was in store in the future.

Spellbound · Apr 8, 2015

My daughter graduated from EMU @ 25 years ago and it was a much safer time, I think. We never considered the dangers beyond walking around campus alone at night.

FindHG · Apr 8, 2015

hockeymom4 said:
I agree with what black squirrel is saying about standing by someone potentially without proof. I am talking in general. Not specific cases when I make that statement. I watch Dateline every week. A few months ago, a father was arrested and convicted of murdering his wife. The evidence, IMO, was overwhelming. The children, adults, stood by the father, still proclaiming his innocence. I felt for their mom. This often happens. My Uncle has a rap sheet a mile long. Throughout his teen and adult life he was arrested yearly even with offenses against his mom, exwife and current wife, they all justified and said he was innocent. He was NOT.

I think sometimes people can't admit that people could do bad. Other times, they need to see the facts before turning their backs on them. I am one on the latter. I would have a very hard time turning my back on someone until I was certain they were guilty because what if they were not.

I shared this story on another thread awhile ago. A few moths ago, a young girl accused her stepfather of molesting her. He had a very established career and was very well known in the community and schools, although not a teacher. He was very well respected and his job demands respect and authority. Word spread very quickly, unfortunately and everyone, naturally belived her. I mean, why would they not and why would she make this up?! Well, he ended up committing suicide. Everyone continued to chatter and degrade him saying well that proves he is guilty. Though some ppl who knew him, just didn't believe it. Sure enough, her story didn't add up and she admitted she made it up. She had lied because she was jealous of the time her mom was spending with him and wanted her back to just the two of them. Wow...is what we all felt. Now, I do believe he must have had other demons, but the fact that he felt no one would believe him, just broke the hearts of many. But, barely anyone did believe him. I guess my point here is that after that, I learned to stick with following facts. Also, understand that family may always believe their loved ones. There is nothing wrong this. Nothing at all.

True enough, it happens often enough, there's even a recent movie about it called "The Hunt" about a man falsely accused and the impact on his life. The issue often comes up in divorce cases. Turnquist, in contrast to other false accusation cases, is not twisting in the wind of social outcast, the charges for child *advertiser censored* are far from a false accusations, but based on evidence discovered by LE, enough for him to be jail and waiting trial. He's been named a POI exactly because he refuses to clear his name or cannot. The thing that I wonder about, is why would he resist giving a full statement if he is innocent and bring all this trouble on his wife, child and step-daughter? What could be at question in that statement that is worth resisting all this time and then to have his family's lives torn to bits? Assuming what he would have to say would raise more questions about his involvement, I would have to assume that over the last two years of unknowing for the family, since Julia was murdered, he has cared only for himself.

hockeymom4 · Apr 8, 2015

Not sleuthing anyone else with this statement, but I have often wondered if by him not giving a formal statement, he is protecting someone else. We know he doesn't have any children other than the young caught, right? Maybe he was very close to someone or a best friend or student? Or someone else? Or maybe he was fearful that child *advertiser censored* charges would come up somehow or something else LE doesn't yet know. I see no issue with him getting a lawyer. If I was asked to come in and speak to police, guilty or innocent, my lawyer would be with me. What I don't agree with is not giving a formal statement. Unless, he is protecting someone he loves very much. Or his lawyer is just idiotic. Unless he was responsible, then I get it. But, I don't see him telling his lawyer that, which is why I am perplexed.

I think he holds many answers to what happen. All of them....I am not sure. I don't see enough facts to see he is responsible.

electric_rainbow · Apr 8, 2015

DazednConfuzed09 said:
Has anyone on here been to Ypsilanti? Would you worry if your child lived there? I know I sure would.

As a matter of fact, I spent seven consecutive years in Ypsilanti earning bachelor's and master's degrees from Eastern Michigan University. Never once did I feel that I was in danger during my time there.

Besides, there are so many indications that Julia knew her attacker, and that kind of personal crime can happen anywhere.

rosesfromangels · Apr 8, 2015

electric_rainbow said:
As a matter of fact, I spent seven consecutive years in Ypsilanti earning bachelor's and master's degrees from Eastern Michigan University. Never once did I feel that I was in danger during my time there.

Besides, there are so many indications that Julia knew her attacker, and that kind of personal crime can happen anywhere.

Electric,

What do most people on campus think happened? What's the general consensus?

MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #2

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