Patsy Ramsey

Anti-K · Apr 9, 2015

andreww said:
Talking to the media is fine. Talking to CNN before talking to LE is unacceptable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unacceptable to whom?

Anyway, it is not true that they talked to the media before talking to BPD. They called BPD when the ransom note was discovered, invited them into their home and spent hours with them, answergin questions, offering information, being observed, etc
...

AK

icedtea4me · Apr 9, 2015

andreww said:
Why would Patsy fear for her life if she wrote the not? If she wrote it the threats are meaningless, its as simple as that.

I'd have to say that finding certain things after being scanned would have great meaning for a stage 4 ovarian cancer patient.

DeeDee249 · Apr 9, 2015

spammie said:
I'm sure this hs been brought up before but I'm looking for a couple of books both About the JBR murder. From both camps, the poor Ramseys are innocent and need to be left alone and the other camp that evidence point to nobody else but the Ramseys and/or household guests. Any Ideas? Thanks in advance.

The Ramsey's wrote a book "Death of Innocence". As for the other point of view, Investigator James Kolar's book is fairly recent and sheds new light on some BDI theories. Steve Thomas, an investigator in the case, wrote "JonBenet & The City of Boulder". Lawrence Schiller wrote "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town". He also made a DVD of the book, which can be rented or viewed online at Netflix or YouTube. And our own SuperSleuth SuperDave wrote his own take on it: "Angel Betrayed". There is a thread here on his book, with more information.

andreww · Apr 10, 2015

Anti-K said:
1)The threats were on the second page of the ransom note and reportedly Mrs Ramsey did not read the note in its entirety before dialing 911.

...

AK

Yes, she read the first lines only. But when asked by the 911 operator, she clearly knew the note was signed SBTC. Also, believe it was in her second interview, she said she recalled standing at the front door waiting for LE wondering if she'd done the right thing calling them because of the threats in the note.

I guess the only way she could be telling the truth would be if she wrote the note right?

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andreww · Apr 10, 2015

Anti-K said:
Unacceptable to whom?

Anyway, it is not true that they talked to the media before talking to BPD. They called BPD when the ransom note was discovered, invited them into their home and spent hours with them, answergin questions, offering information, being observed, etc
...

AK

Do you actually think we are all idiots? The Ramsey's were more than happy to talk to LE when it was a pretend kidnapping. Once it became a real murder they shut the hell up. You know this, so why do you continue to try to misrepresent the facts to the people here???

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Anti-K · Apr 10, 2015

andreww said:
Yes, she read the first lines only. But when asked by the 911 operator, she clearly knew the note was signed SBTC. Also, believe it was in her second interview, she said she recalled standing at the front door waiting for LE wondering if she'd done the right thing calling them because of the threats in the note.

I guess the only way she could be telling the truth would be if she wrote the note right?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

She replied, SBTC, Victory. Reading from the bottom. This explanation has been widely reported.
After the calls and between arrivals there would have been time to scan the rest of the note.
...

AK

eileenhawkeye · Apr 10, 2015

Are there many examples of cases where the parents were on national TV a week or so after their child was murdered? I feel like it's more expected that parents of missing children will do everything they can to publicize the case, but that will stop or slow down once the child is found dead. To give some recent examples, the parents of Sierra Newbold, Leila Fowler, Alanna Gallagher, Grace Ford, all little girls who were never missing--I believe it was weeks before the parents spoke to the media (if ever) and they only spoke to local; none of them launched any sort of media campaign; there was never any push for national coverage. Imagine if the parents in any of those cases were on CNN a week after the murder; I think the reaction would still be pretty negative. Besides Grace's mother, I don't think the parents in those cases even launched FB pages.

andreww · Apr 10, 2015

Anti-K said:
She replied, SBTC, Victory. Reading from the bottom. This explanation has been widely reported.
After the calls and between arrivals there would have been time to scan the rest of the note.
...

AK

In her interview she was very clear that she didn't read the note. Not before the call and not before the police came. In fact her statement doesn't make much sense. From her first interview...

TT: …(Inaudible). Um, did you ever get a chance before the officer got there to read the whole note other than just the first little bit when you talked about when you first read it? Did you ever get a chance to, to read through that…
PR: I think I glanced back at it. I looked at the, to see who had signed it.
TT: Um hum.
PR: But I did not…
TT: Didn’t read word for word (inaudible). Okay. Later on when you kind of had a chance when the note was laid in, in the TV room there, you guys had kind of chance to look it over. Anything, any of the wording seem significant to you. Anything jump out at you from reading that note?
PR: I just, you know, I just, I didn’t really read it. I just couldn’t bear to read it.

From her second statement...

1 by that time.
2 Anyway, got the message across, she
3 said she would send somebody out, and oh, God in
4 heaven. Oh, then I phone -- called our friends,
5 Mr. and Mrs. Fleet White and Mr. and
6 Mrs. Johnson, they live in Boulder. I think
7 John went back up to get dressed.
8 And I called them and told them
9 that she's been kidnapped, she is missing. And
10 then I walked out through here, and opened the
11 door, and started waiting for -- front door --
12 started waiting for the police to show up.
13 (INAUDIBLE).
14 I was standing on the (INAUDIBLE)
15 and pretty soon a squad car came -- you know,
16 officer came up. And I remember thinking
17 because it said somewhere in the note, if you do
18 that, if you call somebody, that's not good.
19 Blah, blah, blah. And I just remembered
20 thinking oh, my God, I hope they are not
21 watching me. I mean, what if they are watching,
22 if the policeman comes, I mean all this was just
23 rushing through my head.

So tell me how could she think that if she never read the note?

OliviaG1996 · Apr 10, 2015

andreww said:
[Snipped]

From her second statement...

1 by that time.
2 Anyway, got the message across, she
3 said she would send somebody out, and oh, God in
4 heaven. Oh, then I phone -- called our friends,
5 Mr. and Mrs. Fleet White and Mr. and
6 Mrs. Johnson, they live in Boulder. I think
7 John went back up to get dressed.
8 And I called them and told them
9 that she's been kidnapped, she is missing. And
10 then I walked out through here, and opened the
11 door, and started waiting for -- front door --
12 started waiting for the police to show up.
13 (INAUDIBLE).
14 I was standing on the (INAUDIBLE)
15 and pretty soon a squad car came -- you know,
16 officer came up. And I remember thinking
17 because it said somewhere in the note, if you do
18 that, if you call somebody, that's not good.
19 Blah, blah, blah. And I just remembered
20 thinking oh, my God, I hope they are not
21 watching me. I mean, what if they are watching,
22 if the policeman comes, I mean all this was just
23 rushing through my head.

So tell me how could she think that if she never read the note?

(Underlined by me): Especially since the, "Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I., etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded." part of the note was in the middle of the second page. That would be believable if it was one of the first lines and she skimmed through it, but she specifically said, "I didnt really read it. I just couldnt bear to read it."

Anti-K said:
She replied, SBTC, Victory. Reading from the bottom. This explanation has been widely reported.
After the calls and between arrivals there would have been time to scan the rest of the note.
...

AK

(Bolded by me): But, how can she be reading S.B.T.C. Victory from the bottom up if, according to PR, JR is reading the note on the spiral staircase?

Anti-K · Apr 10, 2015

andreww said:
In her interview she was very clear that she didn't read the note. Not before the call and not before the police came. In fact her statement doesn't make much sense. From her first interview...

TT: …(Inaudible). Um, did you ever get a chance before the officer got there to read the whole note other than just the first little bit when you talked about when you first read it? Did you ever get a chance to, to read through that…
PR: I think I glanced back at it. I looked at the, to see who had signed it.
TT: Um hum.
PR: But I did not…
TT: Didn’t read word for word (inaudible). Okay. Later on when you kind of had a chance when the note was laid in, in the TV room there, you guys had kind of chance to look it over. Anything, any of the wording seem significant to you. Anything jump out at you from reading that note?
PR: I just, you know, I just, I didn’t really read it. I just couldn’t bear to read it.

From her second statement...

1 by that time.
2 Anyway, got the message across, she
3 said she would send somebody out, and oh, God in
4 heaven. Oh, then I phone -- called our friends,
5 Mr. and Mrs. Fleet White and Mr. and
6 Mrs. Johnson, they live in Boulder. I think
7 John went back up to get dressed.
8 And I called them and told them
9 that she's been kidnapped, she is missing. And
10 then I walked out through here, and opened the
11 door, and started waiting for -- front door --
12 started waiting for the police to show up.
13 (INAUDIBLE).
14 I was standing on the (INAUDIBLE)
15 and pretty soon a squad car came -- you know,
16 officer came up. And I remember thinking
17 because it said somewhere in the note, if you do
18 that, if you call somebody, that's not good.
19 Blah, blah, blah. And I just remembered
20 thinking oh, my God, I hope they are not
21 watching me. I mean, what if they are watching,
22 if the policeman comes, I mean all this was just
23 rushing through my head.

So tell me how could she think that if she never read the note?

Continuing along with the ’97 interview:
PR: So, I mean I just, you know, I kind of glanced at it to kind of see if I recognized the handwriting, but I just, I never, I don’t know if I ever did read the whole thing.
TT: Okay. So, let me make sure I got this right. You read a little bit of it. The first part of it at the very beginning, got the flavor for what had gone on and then you remember reading the signature and that, that’s about the extent of the note you read?
PR: Right. I mean I, you know, I might have glanced and seen the $118,000…
TT: Um hum.
PR: …but I don’t, I didn’t read the whole thing.
.

I think the real problem here is panic, confusion, four month delay for the first formal interview, another year before the second; and the plain, simple, empirical fact that MEMORY IS MALLEABLE AND FALLIBLE and because of this PEOPLE ARE NOTORIOUSLY UNRELIABLE AS EYEWITNESSES.
...

AK

icedtea4me · Apr 10, 2015

andreww said:
*snip*

From her second statement...

1 by that time.
2 Anyway, got the message across, she
3 said she would send somebody out, and oh, God in
4 heaven. Oh, then I phone -- called our friends,
5 Mr. and Mrs. Fleet White and Mr. and
6 Mrs. Johnson, they live in Boulder. I think
7 John went back up to get dressed.
8 And I called them and told them
9 that she's been kidnapped, she is missing. And
10 then I walked out through here, and opened the
11 door, and started waiting for -- front door --
12 started waiting for the police to show up.
13 (INAUDIBLE).
14 I was standing on the (INAUDIBLE)
15 and pretty soon a squad car came -- you know,
16 officer came up. And I remember thinking
17 because it said somewhere in the note, if you do
18 that, if you call somebody, that's not good.
19 Blah, blah, blah. And I just remembered
20 thinking oh, my God, I hope they are not
21 watching me. I mean, what if they are watching,
22 if the policeman comes, I mean all this was just
23 rushing through my head.

So tell me how could she think that if she never read the note?

Does Patsy's "Blah, blah, blah" strike anyone else as being quite off-putting?

Mama2JML · Apr 10, 2015

OliviaG1996 said:
(Underlined by me): Especially since the, "Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I., etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded." part of the note was in the middle of the second page. That would be believable if it was one of the first lines and she skimmed through it, but she specifically said, "I didnt really read it. I just couldnt bear to read it."

(Bolded by me): But, how can she be reading S.B.T.C. Victory from the bottom up if, according to PR, JR is reading the note on the spiral staircase?

According to both Ramseys, John knelt down on the floor in the hallway, to read the note, laid out page by page. The phone was located nearby, and Patsy could have easily looked over John's shoulder to see the closing on the 3rd page.

OliviaG1996 · Apr 10, 2015

Mama2JML said:
According to both Ramseys, John knelt down on the floor in the hallway, to read the note, laid out page by page. The phone was located nearby, and Patsy could have easily looked over John's shoulder to see the closing on the 3rd page.

If the place I've marked in blue is where the phone PR was using was located, there is no way she could've seen the ransom note from over JR's shoulder. That is, of course, if the phone had a cord attached, which, since it was 1996, I'm assuming it did.

InstantProof · Apr 10, 2015

It makes sense to me that a panicked parent wouldn't have read a 3 page letter before calling 911, and may have then just looked at the end to see if there was a name. But if she wrote it, then possibly it is intentionally long in order to keep the "don't contact anyone" information buried in the middle. They've called police and friends over. If the note is staged, what did they want to happen next? For everyone to leave? For police to tell friends to leave?
Sometimes I wonder if they weren't as worried, or more worried, what friends and neighbors thought, than what the police thought. Were they expecting the friends to be removed from the scene quickly, and then they come clean to police? If B did it, were they expecting police to sympathize and keep the details secret?

Anti-K · Apr 10, 2015

OliviaG1996 said:
If the place I've marked in blue is where the phone PR was using was located, there is no way she could've seen the ransom note from over JR's shoulder. That is, of course, if the phone had a cord attached, which, since it was 1996, I'm assuming it did.

I don’t know that it’s possible to know the exact positioning of either Ramsey during the moments in question (how long was that phone cord, anyway?).

However, the way Mrs Ramsey answered the 911 operator with “SBTC. Victory” becomes sensible when one considers that she read from the bottom up, which is how one would expect.

Also, consider that Fernie claims to have been able to read the note from an even greater distance that Mrs Ramsey did. He read it through the door!
...

AK

BBB167893 · Apr 10, 2015

Tawny said:
I think it was coincidence/convenience. I believe the cord and tape were likely bought for some other purpose and happened to be available when they 'needed' it. JMO!

That's my take on it, as well. In fact, I've often wondered if they had already been used and were taken off of something already there.

BBB167893 · Apr 10, 2015

Occams Razor said:
I imagine that Patsy inflicted the initial head wound and penned the ransom note. The garroting and other "staging" seems more like something a man would cook up. But that's just a guess.

Patsy thrived on being dramatic (hence the crazy long ransom note and breathless 9-11 call). The interrogation where she slams her hands on the table and says "let's FIND the person who did this!" looks like something out of a made-for-TV movie. It's bad acting. Really bad. Her gestures are grand and dramatic but her emotions are shallow. Don't think I ever saw a tear fall from her eyes (despite plenty of "crying"). The phrases in the ransom note are obviously lifted from popular movies. I think she honestly believed her life was a movie.

Michael Kane said something very similar back in 2002, Occam's Razor. He said: "I think it was something (that came about) through an accident and then everything else was staged - and the staging was so overdone. Patsy is a very theatrical person and it was a very theatrical production."

Whether it was intentional or not, Jonbenet became more famous in death than in life. Patsy clearly wanted to be famous herself, then when that fell through she pushed her daughter to become the next Miss America. The way the Ramseys capitalized on this tragedy is very shady even if they're not guilty. Books, talk shows, press conferences, interviews and all the other attention-wh0ring actions speak volumes about their character. And John's still at it!

At the risk of sounding like a self-promoter, check out the "Loved to Death" thread.

BBB167893 · Apr 10, 2015

Anti-K said:
Unacceptable to whom?

A LOT of people, Anti-K!

Anyway, it is not true that they talked to the media before talking to BPD. They called BPD when the ransom note was discovered, invited them into their home and spent hours with them, answering questions, offering information, being observed, etc

He means being formally interviewed. And in that case, it certainly IS true that they talked to the media first.

CNN-January

BPD-April

BBB167893 · Apr 10, 2015

andreww said:
Do you actually think we are all idiots?

That would be my guess.

The Ramsey's were more than happy to talk to LE when it was a pretend kidnapping. Once it became a real murder they shut the hell up. You know this, so why do you continue to try to misrepresent the facts to the people here???

That's what I was trying to say as well.

BBB167893 · Apr 11, 2015

Anti-K said:
I think the real problem here is panic, confusion, four month delay for the first formal interview, another year before the second;

And WHOSE fault was that?!

and the plain, simple, empirical fact that MEMORY IS MALLEABLE AND FALLIBLE and because of this PEOPLE ARE NOTORIOUSLY UNRELIABLE AS EYEWITNESSES.

Especially THESE people for some reason.

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