MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #3

4ist....This is exactly the opposite of what I have been told? Again, not arguing.

rosesfromangels said:

I find it odd he is staying away from the home, and with a female. Just strikes me as odd. I would have thought the young daughter would go stay at Grandma's, while the married couple works on his defense, finances, etc.

This whole family dynamic is beyond bizarre, and Turnquist is at the center of it. Bathroom doors off, mouth taping, children moving to live with Grandma, suicidal drama, *advertiser censored* charges....and this is what we *know* about.

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I think it is odd that the courts have allowed the 12 year old to remain in the Turnquist home. I think that staying with her Grandma Rose' would have been a better option for our grandchild then remaining in her home. JMO
JT is not allowed to live at his residence, when he was bailed out of jail, he went to live with one of Kim's friends home in Monroe. Actually two girlfriends of Kim's, MATTER A FACT, When JT asked Kim for a divorce, about a year after Julia died, it was where Kim went to stay as well.

rosesfromangels said:

MiMommy

Why did JT hate the Brucks?

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You will have to ask JT or Kim why she said that to us.

MIMOMMY said:

I wonder if he did not want to go because he did not want to draw that type of attention to something as special as someone's wedding. Perhaps he was worried that his attendance would distract from the appropriate family? Then, maybe he chose to go to support his wife?

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The wedding was in January, way before the child *advertiser censored* and POI came about, so that surely could not have been a reason.

I talked to him about this tonight. He has valid reasons that I will not discuss here out of respect for Jennifer. It has nothing to do with any of the cases that much I will say.

electric_rainbow said:

Yes...his concern and altruism is what led Kim to say he "hated" them. LOL

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electric_rainbow said:

It's not that complicated...Trojan is saying that he didn't hear Jim say that he hates the Bruck family first hand, but that Kim said he did.

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rosesfromangels said:

V

MiMommy, I asked for clarification because up thread *you* said JT hated the Brucks. I'm interested in knowing why he felt this way.
Did I misunderstand? So much on this thread, I probably did.
As always, thank you for your enduring patience in answering all these questions!

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rosesfromangels said:

Ok sorry for the confusion MiMommy. It appears it was 4ist who informed that JT hated the Brucks, not you. Trojan has confirmed Kim stating this as well.
I wonder WHY?!

I'm not going to tippie toe around. I have not cleared JT off my POI list in either Julia or Chelsea's murders. The odds of two family friends murdered from the same small town are astronomical. I can only find one common thread at the moment; JT. I am not saying he is the Perp, I am saying he is all around suspicious. May be involved at some level.

Obviously this is why the JT hated the Brucks is so important to dig deep on.

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Trojan1966 said:

MMy last communication with Kim was over a one hour of her ranting at me on the phone. During this "rant" she mentioned that JT hated the Brucks and didn't want to go to the wedding. Since this time, she has not talked to me but the one hour of "ranting" was pretty much running down everyone in the extended family because JT was innocent of having child *advertiser censored*. She also stated that people who think that JT had something to do with Julia's murder are crazy. She said "Do you think I would have brought such a person into my family to "raise" the twins?" Well, maybe she didn't know him as well as she thought when she met him. He has never been very friendly to our extended family and always seemed uncomfortable and usually would leave gathering early.

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FindHG said:

Thank you again, to you both for your input. It means a lot in grasping the situation. It's brave of you and I'm sure not easy to do.

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FindHG said:

Trojan, you're an amazing stalwart dad to keep reaching out. It's so hard to even begin to imagine what a horrible situation this must be for you. I wouldn't have been able to deal with it as admirably as you have. Your family is extremely fortunate to have you.

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rosesfromangels said:

I want to know what time JT got home on Dec 10 and where he was before he got home.

Editing to add, Dec 9 as well.

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I can tell you that from the beginning of this investigation all the immediate families stories differed, now ironically they all are telling the same story. I personally know This, Kim worked long hours, I am sure that the detectives know what KT & Jennifers work schedule Were the days in question. JT is a different story, harder to get a time frame on him, because for the most part he didn't have anyone to report to. His martial arts might be able to report any time spent there. Something to note is that according to Kim 'JT and her didn't sleep together very often', she often slept in the living room. She slept like a rock, many family and friends can attest to that. Also she was a very loud snorer.

electric_rainbow said:

Yes...his concern and altruism is what led Kim to say he "hated" them. LOL

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electric_rainbow said:

It's not that complicated...Trojan is saying that he didn't hear Jim say that he hates the Bruck family first hand, but that Kim said he did.

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rosesfromangels said:

V

MiMommy, I asked for clarification because up thread *you* said JT hated the Brucks. I'm interested in knowing why he felt this way.
Did I misunderstand? So much on this thread, I probably did.
As always, thank you for your enduring patience in answering all these questions!

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rosesfromangels said:

Ok sorry for the confusion MiMommy. It appears it was 4ist who informed that JT hated the Brucks, not you. Trojan has confirmed Kim stating this as well.
I wonder WHY?!

I'm not going to tippie toe around. I have not cleared JT off my POI list in either Julia or Chelsea's murders. The odds of two family friends murdered from the same small town are astronomical. I can only find one common thread at the moment; JT. I am not saying he is the Perp, I am saying he is all around suspicious. May be involved at some level.

Obviously this is why the JT hated the Brucks is so important to dig deep on.

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Trojan1966 said:

MMy last communication with Kim was over a one hour of her ranting at me on the phone. During this "rant" she mentioned that JT hated the Brucks and didn't want to go to the wedding. Since this time, she has not talked to me but the one hour of "ranting" was pretty much running down everyone in the extended family because JT was innocent of having child *advertiser censored*. She also stated that people who think that JT had something to do with Julia's murder are crazy. She said "Do you think I would have brought such a person into my family to "raise" the twins?" Well, maybe she didn't know him as well as she thought when she met him. He has never been very friendly to our extended family and always seemed uncomfortable and usually would leave gathering early.

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FindHG said:

Thank you again, to you both for your input. It means a lot in grasping the situation. It's brave of you and I'm sure not easy to do.

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FindHG said:

Trojan, you're an amazing stalwart dad to keep reaching out. It's so hard to even begin to imagine what a horrible situation this must be for you. I wouldn't have been able to deal with it as admirably as you have. Your family is extremely fortunate to have you.

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Spellbound said:

4ist, I am so sorry you are having to take a stand for your beloved Julia in this way. I cannot imagine the pain some of our thoughts must bring to you and other family. I commend your honesty, your strength and determination. Stay strong, dear one. Justice is getting closer. It has to be.

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Spellbound, thank you, I am a truth seeker, not fan of lies, and really do have faith that we all will know who murdered Julia.

For sake of discussion, it appears the family gives one facade (and/or story) to friends and a different one to family. There must be a reason for this. I have to give credence to what has actually been observed in addition to what is said. That is the way things work best for me. Having a narcissistic parent, I know how they can be totally different and extremely kind and considerate with some people than they are with their family or the one(s) they try to dominate or emotionally abuse. They may pick one person as their scapegoat, and be a different type person with everyone else. When they are ready to move on to a new victim, they may also drop one out of their life to move on to the next. Scary stuff, sometimes. Not every narcissist is horrible. Not every borderline personality disordered is horrible. Not every manic-depressive is horrible. Every case is different.

If there is a mental health disorder with any of these family members, it may not have been diagnosed. Perhaps with therapy or medication it would improve. We just do not know. We can only make guesses as to whether there are psychological disturbances involved in this case, undiagnosed or diagnosed has not been clarified to my knowledge. A comment to that effect, perhaps. But actual diagnosis? We are working on "is this possible?" theories, and that is all they are. Theories, at this point.

My work in mental health settings gave me insight into many manipulations that are employed. The nicest person to your face may also be the one with the deepest problems.

The patterns I am beginning to pick up on are disturbing. Are they legitimate concerns? I don't know. Sometimes gut feelings are what leads to truths, though. Lately I have been doing more thinking than posting, but I am following every word here. thank you all for the input.

All is just my opinion, of course.

FindHG said:

I was deep in Julia's thread when a gorgeous young woman, a second semester freshman, AJ, went missing. Her step dad took control of the search right away, set up alternative investigation as it were, and ended up in jail, a POI, now awaiting trial for impeding the investigation by planting evidence. My first instinct was how similar to Turnquist he seemed. I've never thought he is innocent of Julia's death from the second I first saw him on MSM without knowing much else about the case. It was great to see him start to face justice. I don't know what this does to you to have your own family still being torn to save him from facing consequences but it seems to be moving very much in the direction of truths, which won't be any harder hopefully than what has already come to pass.

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rosesfromangels said:

Dazed, you are right. There are two vastly different depictions of JT. If he is truly bipolar, it could account for vastly different presentments of persona.
This is a very complicated case, and perhaps it just took this length of time to arrive at various concerns.

There are still critical unanswered questions we would like to hear JT respond to. He is still LE's POI, and thus in our bullseye of sleuthing.

I agree he has passionate supporters. I hope their support is well placed, but I am not yet convinced of that. Still open and learning more on this thread each day. Complex case.

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Trojan1966 said:

I've never heard of people submitting statements directly to the court or of the court asking for such, especially in a child *advertiser censored* case. If the court needs to hear from you, then you would be called by the procecutor or his lawyer as a character witness. I'll try to talk to the prosecutor and the Judge's secretary to see if such a thing has been done and what the reason would be. Now if these statements were given to JT's lawyer that may be a differnt story. I guess my question would be "Why would the court not want statements from other family members if they wanted your statement?"

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Trojan1966 said:

My main focus continues to be to find Justice for Julia. I want the truth period. I just can not believe that anyone else with the same goal would not be as helpful as they can to solve this case. We are not discussing things to assassinate anyone's character but merely trying to get the facts as we know them out in the open to help others come up with theories and ideas that may have been overlooked. There is no doubt in my mind that LE is following all the information posted on this site as another effort to help with their investigation. The lead detective has assured me over and over that she's working for Julia and wants only to find the truth. I appreciate everyone's "ideas" and theories as it does give everyone a different perspective. Please keep up the great work as I deeply appreciate everyone's efforts.

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DazednConfuzed09 said:

Roses - I was with/married to an un-medicated bipolar man for 3 years who ended his life in a very violent way. I know exactly what they are like, how they conduct themselves and how they can act irrationally at the drop of a hat. It's not controlled reactions either. It's simply not possible. That's why I am asking the question. It should be easy to find many people that had run-ins with JT. These types of people leave quite an impression on people they deal with.

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Dazed, I am sorry that you had such a tragedy in your life. I understand that Jim had been diagnosed as being Bipolar, don't know to what degree. KT had mentioned on numerous occasions that he was flying off the handle and won't take his meds. I think everyone in the family have witnessed Jim's explosive behavior. Again, he never sticks around long.
I am not sure if this has ever been brought up in here, but Jim had for many years taught children and adults in Martial arts, his only daughter also attends this martial arts school. About a year ago She mentioned that her Dad was NO longer allowed to instruct any children for there had been complaints by children and parents about Jim being to strict and controlling. So it really makes me wonder why we haven't heard anything from those concerned parents now.

MIMOMMY said:

I am well aware of what "child *advertiser censored* is". I am also aware of the photos in question. Think back to the statements by LE and JT'S attorney....questionable age.

We are not talking about bare bummed babes...that I an assure you.

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BBM
Mimommy, this post concerns me. How would you know specifically which pictures LE is considering to be child *advertiser censored* on a seized computer? This should not be public knowledge at this point in time, should it? Or am I misunderstanding your statement (bolded)?


Has anyone considered a swingers club linked to the possibles? I did a quick search and it seems there is a lively group in Monroe area. I could not force myself to go any further. Which brings me back to remembering the old Bob Bashara hangout not far from Milan area. I believe this was even mentioned early in our discussions here. Something is nibbling at my brain and causing me deep concern in regard to what Julia may have known that could have caused someone to be afraid of her blabbing. I cannot be more specific, because I do not know where these thoughts might lead. Could even be a dead end for me.

4ist said:

Dazed, I am sorry that you had such a tragedy in your life. I understand that Jim had been diagnosed as being Bipolar, don't know to what degree. KT had mentioned on numerous occasions that he was flying off the handle and won't take his meds. I think everyone in the family have witnessed Jim's explosive behavior. Again, he never sticks around long.
I am not sure if this has ever been brought up in here, but Jim had for many years taught children and adults in Martial arts, his only daughter also attends this martial arts school. About a year ago She mentioned that her Dad was NO longer allowed to instruct any children for there had been complaints by children and parents about Jim being to strict and controlling. So it really makes me wonder why we haven't heard anything from those concerned parents now.

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Thanks for the clarification on the Bipolar. I do recall that was discussed. Sometimes I need a little kick-start to remember all the details we have shared. Yes, he could be on the low end and not exhibit the same amount of loss-of-control when with others, and it also would explain him pulling away from social contacts.

This is the first I have heard that he was asked to leave as the instructor. Was this before the incident when the computer(s) were seized and he "fled" to the martial arts studio, do you know? I believe that was in February of this year. I wonder why no parents have come forward that we are aware of, after the arrest. Or if they have, LE may have kept that info quiet. That would be understandable, since they are minors.

4ist said:

Dazed, I am sorry that you had such a tragedy in your life. I understand that Jim had been diagnosed as being Bipolar, don't know to what degree. KT had mentioned on numerous occasions that he was flying off the handle and won't take his meds. I think everyone in the family have witnessed Jim's explosive behavior. Again, he never sticks around long.
I am not sure if this has ever been brought up in here, but Jim had for many years taught children and adults in Martial arts, his only daughter also attends this martial arts school. About a year ago She mentioned that her Dad was NO longer allowed to instruct any children for there had been complaints by children and parents about Jim being to strict and controlling. So it really makes me wonder why we haven't heard anything from those concerned parents now.

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I hope they have had a chance to speak with LE, 4ist, and I imagine they have discretely as children are involved.

When you and Trojan post, things seem to fall into place. I appreciate your persistence. Kids may naturally, because they learn and pattern their behavior on those they see around them, filter what they say to keep things calm, so there may be more to it. It seems very obvious to me that her maternal grandparents, that would be your strong truth seeking brave characters were imbued in Julia.

Spellbound said:

BBM
Mimommy, this post concerns me. How would you know specifically which pictures LE is considering to be child *advertiser censored* on a seized computer? This should not be public knowledge at this point in time, should it? Or am I misunderstanding your statement (bolded)?


Has anyone considered a swingers club linked to the possibles? I did a quick search and it seems there is a lively group in Monroe area. I could not force myself to go any further. Which brings me back to remembering the old Bob Bashara hangout not far from Milan area. I believe this was even mentioned early in our discussions here. Something is nibbling at my brain and causing me deep concern in regard to what Julia may have known that could have caused someone to be afraid of her blabbing. I cannot be more specific, because I do not know where these thoughts might lead. Could even be a dead end for me.

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Okay, Spellie, your brain is nibbling where mine has too, in terms of infidelity possibly having been at issue, if not more, as a motive to end Julia's precious, promising and young life. Though I can imagine you would be able to swing what it would take to get your foot in the door and sit these said Monroe spouse swappers down to ask them about Turnquist, I'm sure you won't go there. As *advertiser censored*, images good enough to have him in an ankle bracelet and mandated to supervised visits with his own child, so child *advertiser censored*, in addition to evidence of a highly manipulative character, have not been enough to turn his support around among those he has the most hold on for one reason or another, then one may be safe in assuming more may have been at issue for him.

And here's, where rosesfromangels' wisdom comes into play for me, Turnquist being the man he has been described, my suspicion or conjecture would be that his anger had been brewing with Julia over time. If she represented, at the time, the unraveling of his hold over Kim, his marriage, and more, and that is may not have been the result of an explosive episode, but a deliberate and calculated attempt to get back, settle scores, show himself for the man he feels his in his own head or to somebody (not sure whom), that in the end, then all this may have been his way of asserting some control over what ever part of his life may have been unraveling.

4ist said:

Dazed, I am sorry that you had such a tragedy in your life. I understand that Jim had been diagnosed as being Bipolar, don't know to what degree. KT had mentioned on numerous occasions that he was flying off the handle and won't take his meds. I think everyone in the family have witnessed Jim's explosive behavior. Again, he never sticks around long.
I am not sure if this has ever been brought up in here, but Jim had for many years taught children and adults in Martial arts, his only daughter also attends this martial arts school. About a year ago She mentioned that her Dad was NO longer allowed to instruct any children for there had been complaints by children and parents about Jim being to strict and controlling. So it really makes me wonder why we haven't heard anything from those concerned parents now.

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Please don't take this as an attack, but I stated earlier that just because someone says something doesn't make it true in my opinion. If those statements can be taken into a courtroom, dissected and proven then I would have to give it credibility as both sides of the story would have been scrutinized. JMO

DazednConfuzed09 said:

Please don't take this as an attack, but I stated earlier that just because someone says something doesn't make it true in my opinion. If those statements can be taken into a courtroom, dissected and proven then I would have to give it credibility as both sides of the story would have been scrutinized. JMO

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Absolutely, and that works for both sides of any situation. In general, some things we are told may be completely true, some may be completely false, and somewhere in the middle is the answer.

JMO

Even if JTs character is as bad as some people here suggest, I am not sure how he COULD have killed Julia. What is the theory here? Kim and her two daughters have given JT an alibi for the murder. But let us assume that JT sneaked out while the others were asleep. Isn't it unlikely that one of the three people (and a dog?) would not wake up while he sneaks out? then they again do not wake up when he comes back? Nor do they notice that he is gone in the time in between? if JT left while everyone was asleep, then it must have been really late, say 11pm or later. So he makes an unannounced visit to Julia around midnight or later. Would she let this man, who allegedly sexually abused her, let him in at this time of night? I think not. JMO


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Spellbound said:

BBM
Mimommy, this post concerns me. How would you know specifically which pictures LE is considering to be child *advertiser censored* on a seized computer? This should not be public knowledge at this point in time, should it? Or am I misunderstanding your statement (bolded)?


Has anyone considered a swingers club linked to the possibles? I did a quick search and it seems there is a lively group in Monroe area. I could not force myself to go any further. Which brings me back to remembering the old Bob Bashara hangout not far from Milan area. I believe this was even mentioned early in our discussions here. Something is nibbling at my brain and causing me deep concern in regard to what Julia may have known that could have caused someone to be afraid of her blabbing. I cannot be more specific, because I do not know where these thoughts might lead. Could even be a dead end for me.

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Perhaps I should say I am aware of the TYPE of photo's in question.

black_squirrel said:

Even if JTs character is as bad as some people here suggest, I am not sure how he COULD have killed Julia. What is the theory here? Kim and her two daughters have given JT an alibi for the murder. But let us assume that JT sneaked out while the others were asleep. Isn't it unlikely that one of the three people (and a dog?) would not wake up while he sneaks out? then they again do not wake up when he comes back? Nor do they notice that he is gone in the time in between? if JT left while everyone was asleep, then it must have been really late, say 11pm or later. So he makes an unannounced visit to Julia around midnight or later. Would she let this man, who allegedly sexually abused her, let him in at this time of night? I think not. JMO


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I would theorize that if Mr. Turnquist is the Perp, the attack most likely happened prior to him arriving at home. This is why I keep asking what time he came home on Dec 9 and Dec 10, and where he was prior to arriving at home. This man seems to move all over the Monroe and Ypisilanti map, literally, without accountability. (See Forager's map).

The portrayal of Mr. Turnquist becomes less favorable as this thread progresses. Does it make him a murderer? Not necessarily, no. Do I think LE is correct in naming him a POI? YES.

Why did Turnquist leave Kim at one point and a divorce was discussed? What was that all about?

Editing to add that Kim and Jennifer could have stated mistruths about the timeline to protect Turnquist. Why they would protect this sketchy character is unclear.

MiMommy, a couple questions for you please.

*Was JT anywhere within a five mile radius of Julia's apartment Dec 9 or 10?
*Are you confident the child *advertiser censored* case will be dismissed?
*Why did JT move out after Julia's murder and consider divorce?
*Was JT suicidal when Kim called in to 911 or was that a misunderstanding? Has he been suicidal since? (If he was)

I am working on an analysis of why JT would *not* be the Perp, and stall out specifically on the point regarding his whereabouts on Dec 9 and 10. If we can satisfy that data point we can accelerate the analysis.

Thank you as always!
At this point we have plenty enough details on character profile, both good and less redeeming. Knowing his profile, I am simply going to analyze hard data without the character judgement. The character profile has helped with predictive activity modeling. (Example: JT had breakfast every morning at the local Cafe, but Dec 10 he was absent). In that example, an explanation would be required. That of course is just an example.

So thank you for filling in the blanks, and I will do my best to produce a hypothesis that might be fodder for further examination, along with my other trusty compadres here on the thread.

black_squirrel said:

Even if JTs character is as bad as some people here suggest, I am not sure how he COULD have killed Julia. What is the theory here? Kim and her two daughters have given JT an alibi for the murder. But let us assume that JT sneaked out while the others were asleep. Isn't it unlikely that one of the three people (and a dog?) would not wake up while he sneaks out? then they again do not wake up when he comes back? Nor do they notice that he is gone in the time in between? if JT left while everyone was asleep, then it must have been really late, say 11pm or later. So he makes an unannounced visit to Julia around midnight or later. Would she let this man, who allegedly sexually abused her, let him in at this time of night? I think not. JMO


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First, they did not have a dog at the time of Julia's murder. Jennifer has told me that JT was there when she went to bed and was there when she got up that morning. That's all I know. I do know that my daughter is a very, very sound sleeper and as when she was younger, very hard to wake up in the morning. I just thought I'd add this to your comments.