GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 9

If it's not local, then how did they gain access to a boat? How would they know where a boat with a key and gas would be available to steal and how would they get to it? Surely by now, the owner would have reported if anything were found suspicious. Would the killer(s) bring their own boat in on a trailer if this crime was planned? Would they be able to launch a boat from the Dermond's dock? Or, if they boated in, how would they know which inlet to enter to access the Dermond's place if they were the ones targeted? Don't the inlets all look pretty much the same?
Even if they were not local, I guess they could have still been familiar with the lake.

Foxfire said:

This conclusion has always had me baffled.. If Mr D's head has never been recovered, and according to the Medical Examiner, the cause of death was some type of head trauma. How would investigators know the type of weapon used. If my memory is correct and according to the article below, the weapon that was used to murder Mr D was never recovered.


EXCLUSIVE: Sheriff says Reynolds Plantation couple killed with different weapons
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/

A Lake without Leads: Putnam Co. murders remain a mystery
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/l...10/lake-oconee-murder-putnam-county/18811169/ 11/11/2014

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Blood spatter analysis?

southernmimi said:

Agree. He may be a top notch sheriff, but he has an unsolved horror hanging over his head so that "bad-*advertiser censored*" picture doesn't mean much. Chill with the PR and personal promotion, give the public some useful information, ask for help from the GBI and solve this case.

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Thank you hun! The other picture of the "boys" back in the day, cool photo, but. Anyway, focus on the Dermonds please

Canaille said:

Foxfire, I'm still not sure that I get it, although if I put the comment made in the video along with the "ain't local talent" then I'm guessing he's saying that the killer is not local to the area? What, possibly, makes him think that, if that's the case?

I'm puzzled that a "robbery extortion" would end in a decapitation with absolutely nothing taken. Well, unless you include the head.

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agreed, and what possibly makes him know that if he knows NOT WHO did this, but if suppose, they took the head due to hiding forensics possibly from gunshot or lodged bullet, OK, BUT WHY TAKE SHIRLEY DOWN/UP RIVER?

not local talent could be putnam county or Georgia, USA? I've heard beheadings happen often in the metro area and are not reported, if that's the case, then SS may have surely meant only Putnam and given the small town feel, low crime (i think) then he must've been pertaining to the county

Tillicum said:

Blood spatter analysis?

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Did i read there was a POOL of blood around the body? Was it stated early on there was minimal blood splatter on the garage wall? Does that lead one to believe there was minimal blood inthe area all together? If there was any blood splatter on the wall and YET HE WAS FOUND in between the two cars, that might explain why the intial reports stated that the body had been moved, if blood was pooled in the garage, he was surely beheaded there

Any thoughts?

watcher9 said:

If it's not local, then how did they gain access to a boat? How would they know where a boat with a key and gas would be available to steal and how would they get to it? Surely by now, the owner would have reported if anything were found suspicious. Would the killer(s) bring their own boat in on a trailer if this crime was planned? Would they be able to launch a boat from the Dermond's dock? Or, if they boated in, how would they know which inlet to enter to access the Dermond's place if they were the ones targeted? Don't the inlets all look pretty much the same?
Even if they were not local, I guess they could have still been familiar with the lake.

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brought their own? Lawrence shoals great access to oconee nearer to where sd was found, maybe there was a local "guide" or someone had lived in the area before, maybe the man on the lawn was the "helper" from the area? Maybe they had visited before? Since the D's were allegedly "acquaintences" or knew them in some capacity as has been stated. maybe the "helper" "guide" had his own boat, wondering if the eyewitness noticed if the man on the lawn left by boat, we've not been told everything so who knows

Foxfire said:

This conclusion has always had me baffled.. If Mr D's head has never been recovered, and according to the Medical Examiner, the cause of death was some type of head trauma. How would investigators know the type of weapon used. If my memory is correct and according to the article below, the weapon that was used to murder Mr D was never recovered.


EXCLUSIVE: Sheriff says Reynolds Plantation couple killed with different weapons
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/

A Lake without Leads: Putnam Co. murders remain a mystery
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/l...10/lake-oconee-murder-putnam-county/18811169/ 11/11/2014

Click to expand...

In one of the articles recently posted here, it was mentioned that Mr Dermond had been shot in the head. My guess is that they found traces of gun powder on him.

dancinunderthemoon said:

brought their own? Lawrence shoals great access to oconee nearer to where sd was found, maybe there was a local "guide" or someone had lived in the area before, maybe the man on the lawn was the "helper" from the area? Maybe they had visited before? Since the D's were allegedly "acquaintences" or knew them in some capacity as has been stated. maybe the "helper" "guide" had his own boat, wondering if the eyewitness noticed if the man on the lawn left by boat, we've not been told everything so who knows

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DAMIFINO said:

Re: "This ain't local talent." Remember that SS grew up in Putnam Co back when it was low population and rural, before the lake and the resorts and before the interstate. Everybody knew everybody. He also knows the local bad boys in surrounding counties. He knows what they do looks like. The local perps may knock someone in head if they are surprised breaking into house, but they are not going to cut their **** head off.
I thought it was local to begin with because the perps had a boat and knew how cut a head off, like a hunter cutting the head off a deer of hog. But I think SS would have solved the case by now if it was. I now think that it was a transient worker or workers or someone posing as them. Landscapers, construction workers, building trades, etc. are basically invisible. No one notices them and they would be waved through a gate.

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BBM

Could definitely be someone posing as the type of workers you mention. I don't think it's a transient since it's been said that this murder was personal.

Someone pulling a boat into town would blend right in, in my opinion, due to the lake. Maybe they frequented the lake and were very familiar with it.

Canaille said:

In one of the articles recently posted here, it was mentioned that Mr Dermond had been shot in the head. My guess is that they found traces of gun powder on him.

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Canaille, do you possibly have a link? I think we discussed the possibility of gun powder residue being found on Mr D's remains, but that it was never reported by Sheriff Sills..

Bumping, as it has been a while.

bessie said:

I'm going to re-open the thread. You'll notice posts referencing a particular cult have been removed. That topic is OFF LIMITS in the Dermonds' threads. LE has given absolutely no indication that the murders were the work of cultists. In fact, Sheriff Sills made a statement to the contrary, iirc.

If you'd like to continue a discussion of the NC, I'll open a thread in the Parking Lot for that purpose.

Thanks.



ETA: Link to new thread in the Parking Lot to discuss the Nuwaubian Cult

The Dermond discussion remains in this thread, and should not carry over into the NC thread. If it does, then the NC thread will be closed permanently, and the Dermond thread closed until LE issues another press release.

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If I may think out loud... Here is what I believe we know so far. Please feel free to add or correct me if I am wrong.

Mr D was found in the garage decapitated. Head not yet recovered. Possibly killed with a gunshot to his head. Found wearing t shirt, boxer shorts, robe and slippers.

Mrs D missing, but found days later in the lake with blocks tied to her feet, I believe. Bludgeoned. In my opinion, she was beaten in the head. To me, this exhibits built up anger toward the woman.

POI reportedly seen in the Dermonds back yard Saturday. Is this the blue collar worker?

Stated by SS that this is not local talent. That "it's not local". Could be not local, as in someone from another county or state? Who had a personal vendetta with the Dermonds, so drove into Eatonton pulling a boat used to access the lake.

Killer(s) take care of their buisiness and then clean up an leave town?

This is personal, remember?

Foxfire said:

<BBM for Focus>
Excellent comment and food for thought, dancinunderthemoon... I agree; too many riddles.. Mysterious riddles; inexplicable ambiguous, and perplexing speech in an attempt to show transparency. But seems to only raise more questions and piques curiosity..

As you are aware, there has been a book by AJC Reporter Bill Osinski, as well as a movie documenting Sheriff Sills's most high profile investigation and claim to fame.. In that bizarre case, unlike the Dermond murders, Sheriff Sills had to restrain himself from asking the question; 'Why'. Ironically, this case was solved primarily due to a citizen's tip.. Guess, the movie was never picked up but there is a trailer available;

Ungodly Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LamdqTtbq2U
___________

Dwight "Malachi" York: Ungodly Predator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPwSciJnNQA
Bill Osinski discusses his book Ungodly. While society turned a blind eye for more than three decades, Dwight York, also known ...
___________

'Due to Sheriff Sills' press conference quote, "Show me something that the GBI can do that I can't do and I will request their assistance". I also feel that Sheriff Sills' refusal to request the vast investigative resources as well as the very experienced and well trained elite
special agents of the GBI<Georgia Bureau of Investigations> is due to extreme ego and narcissism, and has likely hampered the Dermond abduction/decapitation/murders investigation'. jmo

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http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/cr...-decapitation-case-seeks-ex-workers/27038703/
This week, Sills interviewed one former employee, which yielded the names of the between eight and 10 additional employees Sills wants to question.
"We're constantly identifying people like that. You know, maybe we haven't gone back far enough [in Dermond's past]" Sills said.

or sideways enough........??

how far back have they investigated and what was the above time frame?

Foxfire said:

Canaille, do you possibly have a link? I think we discussed the possibility of gun powder residue being found on Mr D's remains, but that it was never reported by Sheriff Sills..

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Going stroll through the posts to see if I can find the right article. BRB.

Foxfire said:

Canaille, do you possibly have a link? I think we discussed the possibility of gun powder residue being found on Mr D's remains, but that it was never reported by Sheriff Sills..

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Sills believes Russell Dermond was shot to death, then decapitated. His head was never recovered. Sills believes it was discarded in Lake Oconee.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...gia-elderly-couple-slain-year-later/70875900/

dancinunderthemoon said:

http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/cr...-decapitation-case-seeks-ex-workers/27038703/
This week, Sills interviewed one former employee, which yielded the names of the between eight and 10 additional employees Sills wants to question.
"We're constantly identifying people like that. You know, maybe we haven't gone back far enough [in Dermond's past]" Sills said.
or sideways enough........??

how far back have they investigated and what was the above time frame?

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BBM; Interesting, this. It is something I wondered early on and thought that Sills was, in fact, looking way back, but it occurred to me that perhaps there was someone serving time in prison who had many years to plot his revenge - however real or unreal it may have been in his own mind. Just because someone thinks they have a reason for revenge doesn't mean it's reason-able.

It still seems to me that this crime was very personal against Russell, that they may have abducted and killed Shirley first and when Russell was looking for her, confronted him.

It was brutal, it was emotional, it was clean, tidy, neat and well thought out. If it was anything else then shoot them both. The 2 killings together, different as they are, are the loud voices trying to speak.

I never bought taking the head to hide ballistics. Bullets don't have names on them. They have marks that must be matched to a known weapon. That was not this. There was no blood bath and we were told there was no spatter like from a gunshot or from beheading a live person. There was a pool. I recall there was also about a 1 foot drag mark - IMO this is called "staging" or "posing".

Very tidy.

Personal, but after the fact, what would be the point? Shirley can't see it, she's under the cinder blocks, so who is left?

The Sherriff? The family? Other former employees?? AH. YES? "10 additional employees".

I think I agree with Sills "You know, maybe we haven't gone back far enough [in Dermond's past]"

Time spent in prison to stew, to plot and plan?

ETA; I don't know why the USA TODAY article says that "Sills believes Russell Dermond was shot to death, then decapitated." Sills had never said that and this is not a quote - is this creative journalism or is Sills now contradicting himself? I would rather see an actual quote IMO.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...gia-elderly-couple-slain-year-later/70875900/

JMO

There is an avenue that for some reason I am only now able to sort out. We have been assuming that someone known came to visit them that they knew. The door was unlocked and Russell was found in the garage.

My wife loves to get up early and go outside - walk, the dog, fill the bird feeders, tend to the garden, etc.
I get up an hour later. I make my cup of coffee - she has tea first thing. Sometimes I don't see her and look for her out front or back windows. Point is that she is up and dressed and I am on the deck in my robe.

The Dermonds were in different modes of dress IIRC.

Important?


MOO

dancinunderthemoon said:

but if suppose, they took the head due to hiding forensics possibly from gunshot or lodged bullet,

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It would not make any sense to decapitate a body and then haul the head away just to prevent a ballistic match-up. Initially the ballistics test (assuming the gun barrel had not been altered) would only show the make/model of the firearm that was used, in order to match it up to a specific gun the weapon would have to be recovered.

There are numerous ways to prevent a ballistic match such as a) dump the gun in the lake b) buy a new barrel and throw away the old one c) use an abrasive chemical or material to change the signature of the barrel d) use a shotgun.

Plus in Georgia guns do not require permits or registration and private sales common so even if they identify the exact make/model of the weapon that doesn't prove a thing UNLESS the weapon can be found and traced back to the suspect via FFL records.

In order to trace a firearm you have to have the serial number and start with the manufacturer's records, then look up the retailer and find out who he sold it to based on his records, then find the first owner and find out if he sold it and does he know who he sold it to? If he doesn't know (or won't say) then the trail ends right there assuming of course the last owner of record has an alibi and can't be blamed for the murder.

FYI if anyone is wondering why Georgia has loopholes that make it hard to trace weapons it is because we like it that way, Georgians do not want the government to have/keep a list of our personal firearms.

Steleheart said:

BBM; Interesting, this. It is something I wondered early on and thought that Sills was, in fact, looking way back, but it occurred to me that perhaps there was someone serving time in prison who had many years to plot his revenge - however real or unreal it may have been in his own mind. Just because someone thinks they have a reason for revenge doesn't mean it's reason-able.

It still seems to me that this crime was very personal against Russell, that they may have abducted and killed Shirley first and when Russell was looking for her, confronted him.

It was brutal, it was emotional, it was clean, tidy, neat and well thought out. If it was anything else then shoot them both. The 2 killings together, different as they are, are the loud voices trying to speak.

I never bought taking the head to hide ballistics. Bullets don't have names on them. They have marks that must be matched to a known weapon. That was not this. There was no blood bath and we were told there was no spatter like from a gunshot or from beheading a live person. There was a pool. I recall there was also about a 1 foot drag mark - IMO this is called "staging" or "posing".

Very tidy.

Personal, but after the fact, what would be the point? Shirley can't see it, she's under the cinder blocks, so who is left?

The Sherriff? The family? Other former employees?? AH. YES? "10 additional employees".

I think I agree with Sills "You know, maybe we haven't gone back far enough [in Dermond's past]"

Time spent in prison to stew, to plot and plan?[/B]

ETA; I don't know why the USA TODAY article says that "Sills believes Russell Dermond was shot to death, then decapitated." Sills had never said that and this is not a quote - is this creative journalism or is Sills now contradicting himself? I would rather see an actual quote IMO.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...gia-elderly-couple-slain-year-later/70875900/

JMO

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<BBM for Focus>

I agree Steleheart, Sheriff Sills, should be looking way back, just not at the Dermond's history. Sheriff Sills should be looking at himself in the mirror asking, who is capable of comitting a heinous crime of this nature? Who has a documented past of extreme violence and other deviant behavior; murder, dismemberment, etc. I agree that there is someone serving time in prison who has had many years to plot his intricate plan to seek revenge/retribution.. This person, as are many sadistic psychopaths, is very intelligent, creative, calculating, but most importantly, very deflective..

Imo, the intent of Mr D's decapitation, taking of his head, and posing of his torso for discovery was not to remove ballistic evidence but to instill terror. Terror for the person/s that discovered him, the community, and investigators and other first responders that witnessed the grisly crime scene.

Imo, Mrs D life was spared until arriving at the body dump location. Mrs D was simply used as a shield/hostage, in case the perps's boat was stopped by DNR enroute to the boat launching ramp, imo..

Here's a long shot. What if the ballistics couldn't tie the bullet to the gun owner but could tie the bullet to another (previous) murder where the same gun was used?

Tillicum said:

Here's a long shot. What if the ballistics couldn't tie the bullet to the gun owner but could tie the bullet to another (previous) murder where the same gun was used?

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Yeah, that is typically where ballistic matches come in handy. Usually it involves a stupid young hoodlum running around with an illegal firearm that has been used in a few local shootings, they have a hard time getting a new one so they keep it after the crime.

Most adults would simply get rid of the weapon or spend $100 on a new barrel, most especially a handgun.