Recovered/Located CA - Cecil Knutson (dec'd), Dianna Bedwell (inj'd), Valley Ctr, 10 May 2015

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I think today is the likely very critical turning point in several regards.

I think we're quite realistically near the outer limit of them having been able to crash and still survive (esp. given the diabetes issue) since they'd not have much in the way of getting water unless they had any with them.

I think the storm coming is another key turning point as it's going to essentially put a stop to the searching for a period of time, plus quite likely obscure evidence that might have been visible (like washing away tracks through dirt or such) - plus the drop in temperature won't help them

And I think unless there's something relatively significant (like the surveillance video being released today of the possible cars; or if LE suddenly announced they thought it was foul play; or...something) that it's going to almost completely drop off the news cycle today.

There was VERY little coverage on any of the late news stations tonight, and that's despite at least a few of them providing decent coverage earlier about the video, and also mentioning Robert's whole situation. The fact that it wasn't a crazy interesting local news night, or even nationally (like the Philly train crash the night before) it still hardly registered during the cycle.

They have GOT to be found today for this to have much hope of still being a rescue, IMO!
 
TravelingBug said:
I've also got friends off Woods Valley (not far off Lake Wolford - so basically SB from Valley View and then you'd cross a bit west to get to to S6 SB) and their home is used for weddings a lot and they do get reception, but not great.

And basically at Cole Grade and Cool Valley - meaning north of Valley View, and almost directly parallel to like where Harrah's is at S6, my friends only have cell phones.

So I'd think there's got to be multiple places over there to ping from, no? :waitasec:

Especially since even being as close to Deer Springs at Lawrence Welk I always used to be in a completely dead zone.

But :dunno:
Click to expand...

Can you come up with a logical reason why they would have been heading in the direction of the I-15/Deer Springs entrance ramp ? I can't. It's so far out of the way from the direction they planned to travel, it almost borders on absurdity. Even when I made up the map yesterday, it seemed ridiculous. We are all being pulled in that direction because of the last cell phone ping.

I notice there is a Champagne Blvd. that runs parallel with the interstate. I don't know what the terrain along that road is like, or if it runs uphill or downhill from the pavement, but it appears to be a fairly straight road. You would probably know . Traveling anywhere along that stretch of road would also ping off that same tower. Any chance they missed the on-ramp and headed down Champagne Blvd. instead ?

If the person driving suffered some kind of a medical emergency, such as a heart attack or a seizure, I don't know that how straight or curvy the road is would make much of a difference. They may have just veered straight off into the brush and be hidden by the surrounding trees and foliage. That of course could apply to ANY road they may have taken.

I'm still leaning towards the idea that they ended up in some spot that has no cell service or very intermittent service, thus no further pings registering.
 
It's very possible they did in fact go the way the phone pinged, more or less, but then realized they were going the wrong way. If they did a Y turn to turn around, they could have rolled off the road and landed rooftop down in the brush, hidden from view.

Who's our great map person that always shows cell towers and their pinging radius?
 
I think there is little to no doubt that both of them were disabled by whatever happened here.

Possible causes:

Medical emergency--seizure, heart attack, etc.
Animal ran out in front of them
Reckless driver forced them off the road
Oncoming traffic forced them off the road
Negotiated a curve in the road incorrectly
Took what was thought to be a shortcut and got turned around and lost. (improbable, but possible)
Vehicle malfunction--tire blowout , etc.
 
I think it was medical and they are both severely injured. I recall it being reported that Knutson suffered a fall last month. I wonder if he got that checked out.

I do not suspect foul play.

Whenever my daughter's phone is low on battery she puts it on airline mode instead of shutting it off.

The only thing that concerns me is that they did not call their son when they left the casino to say they were on the road, unless they wanted to wait until they were on the highway, which makes me think they never made it there.

I know they've been to this casino before, but I wonder if they ever took the trip from the casino to their son's house. They may also have gotten lost.

Hoping and praying for their safe return!

MOO!
 
TravelingBug said:
I just wonder if someone would think to do that to a car before taking off in a car - if they carjacked it with people in it? :thinking:

I'd think they'd be in a hurry to get out of there and get on the way?

But I also can't really imagine what someone would be thinking to carjack someone anyway, so... LOL
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BBM:

I agree with the bolded. Thieves and carjackers are usually not that sophisticated. They would not usually even think to do something like that in a crime that was not planned out in advance. I hate to even think this, but it very well might be a murder/suicide.

Time is the enemy IF they have had an accident and trees might be obscuring any view of the vehicle from a helicopter.

GB them!
 
Just caught up on this thread. I immediately thought 'car accident' along with many others, although there are a couple of odd details. So much time has passed now though, I'm not very convinced there'll be a happy ending.
 
LaLaw2000 said:
BBM:

I agree with the bolded. Thieves and carjackers are usually not that sophisticated. They would not usually even think to do something like that in a crime that was not planned out in advance. I hate to even think this, but it very well might be a murder/suicide.

Time is the enemy IF they have had an accident and trees might be obscuring any view of the vehicle from a helicopter.

GB them!
Click to expand...

I know, with all the oddities, I, too, thought perhaps murder/suicide.
IMOO.
 
Treelights said:
I know, with all the oddities, I, too, thought perhaps murder/suicide.
IMOO.
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I just can't picture this fun-loving couple telling their family they would join them for Mother's Day dinner (and bring dessert) and then kill themselves instead.

I really think it was an accident on a stretch of road where there is little enough traffic that other drivers didn't see it or hear it.
 
It IS possible that they decided to head to one of the other casinos (as mentioned above), but why would they do that without calling their son first?

The oddest part of this entire ordeal is mom turning off her phone. The second phone being off is clearly the location this lovely couple is located. Which direction is the question.
 
Lethalmatthew said:
I find it very odd that they ended up on Deer Springs Road. As you can see in this map, Deer Springs Road is in a very different direction from the casino than La Quinta, where they were heading. Also, Deer Springs Road is WEST of the interstate, while Dianna and Cecil came from the east.
View attachment 74632
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TravelingBug said:
If you do Lake Wolford Road, which is what the media has been saying they did, it'd be the turquoise route to Deer Springs Road - but there are many variations between the end of Lake Wolford Rd and actually getting to Deer Springs.

Like I said in another post, MOST people I know would NOT go the route on Old Castle b/c it's windier, narrower, and there tend to be issues because it's sort of a more local road and more something locals use.

I personally would also have done Lake Wolford - it's a bigger road through most of it, plus if they're known to make bathroom stops frequently (per their kids) it puts you on a route with many more stop options even just the bit to the freeway.

Also, I think if you put in "Deer Springs Road, San Marcos, CA" as the destination, vs. actually putting it as the freeway entrance, you get the route option of Lake Wolford - or at least that's what I got actually mapping to the 15 that way.

But as I've actually driven it, maybe it shows up that way from the one time I did map it? Now I just drive it.


17391606389_123b962105_b.jpg
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TravelingBug said:
Ok, I just reread last night's post when I was writing from what KNSD said because I was irritated about the vagueness of how they got from Lake Wolford Road to the last ping in the area of Deer Springs.

Thinking about it rereading that he said NB onto Lake Wolford to where it ends (going NB that's technically onto Valley Center Rd) and not just to where Lake Wolford Road ends they COULD have theoretically also taken Lilac to Old Castle from there.

It is a light there where you'd have to turn, and it is the more local road that's narrower, more desolate really, etc.

16959862874_dd049d5e0e_b.jpg


And you have to make a conscious turn that way instead of staying on the bigger Valley Center Road that continues, is where Lake Wolford Rd SB from the casino would join in, and then becomes Valley and then would let you take El Norte or any of the many choices over to N. Centre City to get to Deer Springs.

Without them saying how they went from Lake Wolford to Deer Springs, it really could be MANY ways if they actually took Lilac, as well.

But it makes NO sense why they would have gone down to Deer Springs if they had actually taken Lilac to Old Castle, as it was much further south than Gopher Canyon, right was almost right there, not much beyond that light from Old Castle onto Champagne.

With them saying it pinged near the Deer Springs / 15 ramp, had they actually gone Lilac / Old Castle they'd had to have consciously gone the wrong direction (SB) from where they were headed (NB) quite a distance the wrong way.

So that still seems highly unlikely to me UNLESS it's a matter of a strange ping when they did get reception if they had taken Lilac to Old Castle and somehow it didn't get anything closer than the Deer Springs ramp. I find that odd having to be that far north and not just along Champagne further south, but again, I can't see how they'd make that big of a goof going south from Lilac / Old Castle if they had taken that, instead of going north to Gopher Canyon right there. :dunno:

17392909670_464256e3a8_b.jpg


At that intersection you can literally SEE the Gopher Canyon light / entrance that's .2 away - and obviously that the freeway is RIGHT there - whereas to go down to Deer Springs you'd go 4.2 miles.

But if they don't have an intermediary ping (or perhaps they've just not said the specific route after they hit the end of Lake Wolford on the NB side instead) then it means there are MANY other options they really need to look at to clear.

Because you can also miss Old Castle from Lilac and end way the heck up on Lilac where it gets even further out by the campground and over toward Circle R or Lilac itself, which would really have had them in a mess potentially. Several things COULD get them back down toward Champagne / Old Highway 395 where they could have then gone toward Deer Springs, but...

The timing of the ping in Deer Springs would be REALLY telling to see if they got turnaround in between or what not.

But that leeway between only Lake Wolford Road and Deer Springs, realizing they went NB initially really is a huge can of worms of other possibilities :scared: most of which don't fit with how they would have then been by Deer Springs if they had taken any of the more northerly options (like via Lilac or Old Castle somehow) versus continuing on down Valley Center Road after turning off Lake Wolford and passing where you'd meet up at the south end of Lake Wolford where it ends there like I was thinking he had meant.

I still don't see how you could end up at Deer Springs if they had done Lilac / Old Castle without somehow getting turned around.

I WISH they would clarify if there were any pings post-Lake Wolford Road prior to Deer Springs.

And if there aren't any, then there are A LOT of routes that would have to be well cleared in addition to make those two pings fit, and the timing of the pings would also be important.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the repeat, marked for reference

:bump:
 
Inthedetails said:
I just can't picture this fun-loving couple telling their family they would join them for Mother's Day dinner (and bring dessert) and then kill themselves instead.

I really think it was an accident on a stretch of road where there is little enough traffic that other drivers didn't see it or hear it.
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Oh, I understand that it is difficult to fathom a fun-loving couple killing themselves.

A day after Mother's Day, this week:

"JOSH AND LEAH CABRERA'S PLAYFUL SPIRIT DIES IN MURDER-SUICIDE, HOUSE FIRE."

"There are plenty of playful Facebook photos of Josh and Leah Cabrera — and even a comic illustration of the pair.


These images only make the way their lives ended seem that much more tragic."

http://www.westword.com/news/josh-a...rit-dies-in-murder-suicide-house-fire-6709251

Joshua killed his wife, then himself.
They had 2 children, but they weren't home at the time.

I hope Cecil and Dianna are ok.
There have been Several murder-suicides in my state recently, so it isn't hard for me to fathom that this
could have happened to them, as well. I hope not, though. I hope they are ok.
IMOO.
 
steelman said:
Cell phone Towers shown at link below:

Center of search area is Valley Center.

http://find.mapmuse.com/share/cell-tower-locations--valley-center-area

As you can see, the distance from the Casino area to the two closest towers is about the same distance. One tower is at I-15 on-ramp, the other is over in Pauma Valley.

This just adds to the confusion........which way did they go ?
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Great map, thanks.

The first news article states that "Deputies said the last signal from Knutson’s cell phone came from Deer Springs Road and Interstate 15, about 13 miles from the casino." I've seen a lot of posts here that are saying the ping was "near" this location, and lot of discussion about possible routes based on the proximity to this location. But I'm inferring from this statement only that it pinged it.

The MapMuse shows a Verizon tower just south of this location. A quick look at the Google Maps on the west side of I-15 just north of the location shows three other cell tower arrays.

These are the closest towers to the casino, so I think it based on the ping and other info, the only thing we know is that they left the casino. I'd hate to infer anything about the direction of travel based on the ping.

If that is the case, then it's important to know the timing of the ping to at least gauge how far they had traveled.

My spidey sense says they went south on Lake Wohlford Rd. It's the shortest path back to "civilization", and more opportunity for stops.
 
FindHG asked me to post a Google map with a few markers related to the Knutson search.

The map shows selected cell towers around the area of the Casino. One of the towers is labeled ""Last Ping" from this cell tower - the tower near the intersection of I15 and Deer Springs Rd.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z_XRj_yu3Dto.khuzU1KdCXHY

Here's a screenshot of what the map looks like at the moment:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-v7_C282OmZU/VVTPOMaQv2I/AAAAAAAAAmA/7FmNBoNZ4nM/w904-h567-no/Knutson%2Bmap%2Bscreen%2Bshot.png

The map is set for anyone with the URL to open and edit it.
 
steelman said:
Can you come up with a logical reason why they would have been heading in the direction of the I-15/Deer Springs entrance ramp ? I can't. It's so far out of the way from the direction they planned to travel, it almost borders on absurdity. Even when I made up the map yesterday, it seemed ridiculous. We are all being pulled in that direction because of the last cell phone ping.

I notice there is a Champagne Blvd. that runs parallel with the interstate. I don't know what the terrain along that road is like, or if it runs uphill or downhill from the pavement, but it appears to be a fairly straight road. You would probably know . Traveling anywhere along that stretch of road would also ping off that same tower. Any chance they missed the on-ramp and headed down Champagne Blvd. instead ?

<snip>
Click to expand...

I have to run to the hospital for a bit shortly so this will have to be short.

Yes, yesterday I wrote quite a bit about why I thought they could go to Deer Springs instead.

Frankly I don't really see it as THAT out of the way, and I absolutely (and very strongly) think it's far, far, far more likely they did NOT intend to go the back way to La Quinta (again, no restroom stops possible for Dianna as has been said she needed, more desolate, a "harder" drive, etc)

I think it's far more likely they were going to take the major route - which really is NOT much longer because you can drive at freeway speeds, don't have the frequent issue of getting stuck behind a slow car on the winding one lane road, etc. - and were going to take 15 to 215 to 60 to 10 - especially since THOSE are the roads they'd know more from driving out their normally from home!

As far as pinging at Deer Springs instead of going north to Gopher Canyon, like I wrote in GREAT DETAIL yesterday, I am quite sure that much of coming down Lilac / Old Castle that you could ping the Deer Springs tower - and so if they went off the road coming down, that wouldn't surprise me.

There are other reasons Deer Springs wouldn't surprise me - YES it's 4.2 miles from the Old Castle Road they could have taken down from Valley View vs. .2 to Gopher Canyon - but there are many reasons they could have done that that I don't see as odd, especially since you can drive quite quickly on Champagne Blvd, so speed wise it wouldn't be very low and it's really only like 4 minutes from Old Castle to the Deer Springs entrance, it's not like a 10 mile detour that I think some are seeing it as.

Things like taking a different turn coming down from Valley Center Road (assuming they actually went left instead at the intersection where the white cars went right) is a very easy one, especially since there are SO many options from up at the top of the hill over to the freeway.

Deer Springs is also more of a "main" entrance/exit to 15 than Gopher Canyon is, in that it's the more main route to go to things like the Lawrence Welk Resort and other attractions over on that side of the freeway.

It's also got "services" at that exit, which many others don't on the ones immediately north of it.

That can be a HUGE thing and absolutely make it a more memorable exit than something else would be. And when you've got a couple who already spent 2+ hours in the car driving there, and then had another 2+ hour drive to the desert (with a lot of that also having stretches with minimal services) they might have known that was an easy gas option from passing it.

Like I said, many of the few options further north end up with huge delays getting off the freeway (the one at the south end of Temecula, and absolutely if you wait until you're nearer to Temecula proper, etc.) and without a doubt I'd stop at that Arco / AM/PM at Deer Springs if I needed gas or even a bathroom break.

More on Champagne in another post revisiting my highlights from when I wrote (and included pictures) about the specifics of the terrain and what they'd pass briefly before I go to the hospital, then I'm out of here for now.
 
Have they tried getting in touch with the car dealer? It's last years model. Some aspects of the computer programming in some models can actually be pinged, if the makers prefers.

Also a look back at what routes they may have taken previous visits to the Casino and where they may have stopped for gas or purchases may tell something. Sorry if these ideas have come up before as am just jumping in without a thorough read of the thread.
 
Originally Posted by [B said:
steelman[/B]]
Can you come up with a logical reason why they would have been heading in the direction of the I-15/Deer Springs entrance ramp ? I can't. It's so far out of the way from the direction they planned to travel, it almost borders on absurdity. Even when I made up the map yesterday, it seemed ridiculous. We are all being pulled in that direction because of the last cell phone ping.

I notice there is a Champagne Blvd. that runs parallel with the interstate. I don't know what the terrain along that road is like, or if it runs uphill or downhill from the pavement, but it appears to be a fairly straight road. You would probably know . Traveling anywhere along that stretch of road would also ping off that same tower. Any chance they missed the on-ramp and headed down Champagne Blvd. instead ?

<snip>
Click to expand...

Champagne is a one lane in both directions surface street that's basically the business route for the 15 freeway at that point.

Yes, it's only one lane both ways, but it's a relatively straightforward road that has a 50 or 55 MPH speed limit on nearly all of it - meaning not considerably different really than the freeway speed wise really (especially compared to what they'd have been driving had they stayed up on the hill to head toward something else to go west to 15 on)

As I said - and included pictures of yesterday - much of Champagne is pretty flat with even ground on both sides of it.

Much of it runs directly parallel to the 15 and you can see the freeway itself on a lot of it.

There are a few parts where there are drop offs or bushes, especially at some little turns on Champagne, but most have guardrails. There ARE some areas without rails that are heavier brush.

And there certainly are there share of accidents on Champagne, but NOTHING like things like Lilac / Old Castle / Valley Center Rd / Lake Wolford / and all the back ways.

It'd be easy to take Champagne and hit the freeway either direction, especially if you weren't sure which way was best to get there.

Like I showed in all the pictures of what it'd have been like heading north if they had passed Deer Springs on the surface street and continued onto Champagne. You can look at those for more of my specifics on terrain, etc. until I get back from the hospital.
 
FindHG said:
Have they tried getting in touch with the car dealer? It's last years model. Some aspects of the computer programming in some models can actually be pinged, if the makers prefers.
Click to expand...

From post #13
The 2014 White Hyundai Sonata they&#8217;re driving is equipped with a tracking device but the company says they are getting no signal. &#8220;They said as result of them not getting a reading the antenna has either been completely severed from the vehicle or buried in something like a parking garage,&#8221; said their son.
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