Recovered/Located CA - Cecil Knutson (dec'd), Dianna Bedwell (inj'd), Valley Ctr, 10 May 2015

I'm curious - speaking hesitantly here - if other surveillance videos would show the Knutson's headed in the direction of LQ.

It's been raining here in Ventura County for a couple of hours.

Just b/c I have gotten a few messages asking, I will be back tomorrow and try to catch up then.

Hospital won't allow WS (even via tapatalk) through their wifi and the darn new building is impossible to get anything via the phone without so that put a kink in things

Looking forward to reading what you all thought of (esp. knowing Forager was joining in also!) while I was out of commission!

The weather update I saw about an hour ago had the north side of Valley Center up to about north of the 76 getting HAMMERED and I just saw a twitter update saying that area's getting it again hard in about 30 minutes.

Even more coastal areas where we typically get less rain are getting SOAKED.

In one hour (from 7:45-8:45 pm) SD (airport technically is where the record is measured for the city) got nearly 1.5 inches of rain.

In ONE HOUR - that alone broke the city's record rainfall in May! (And obviously that didn't include the rain before or after - or the inch plus they're expecting to still come!) They have already issued flash flood warnings from the coast to the mountains tomorrow from at least by 5 am until 6 pm, with more hail and thunderstorms expected also.

Obviously if they're holed up and in need of water, Paul and Dianna could use some, but...

Trying to be hopeful...and also think of a positive aside from how all the tracks and stuff all just got washed away or covered in the dirt/rock/mudslides happening, so...

I'm praying that somehow in the hundreds of (completely inevitable - this is San Diego with rain, after all!) crashes we'll have tomorrow in the inland north county area alone, that it'll end up meaning someone seeing something helpful and finding this poor sweet couple!

rosesfromangels said:

Dang it. I feel the sands of the hour glass on this one. Anyone know what search efforts are going on? I really feel tremendous urgency on this one. Hope there are feet and hooves in action

Click to expand...

This one doesn't require me to be very coherent or think as much or mentally drive locations so I can reply to this one now! :giggle:

As of what I heard last night (and I never heard anything today - but also couldn't watch all the stations thanks to not being able to DVR everything like usual):

LE (SDSO and RCSO) both were still searching by air, but not doing any ground searches since there were entirely too many options/routes to even have a starting point.

Obviously homicide and others are still working on things more 'behind-the-scenes' (include looking at more video as things are found that might be useful, etc.) but unless it's not really being relayed or being made public, last I heard there was not any ground searching by LE at this point.

Robert and other family, along with Team Amber (as in started in Amber Dubois' memory) were planning to meet early this am and search in a 2 mile radius, working out from there if able, and I believe they were intending to focus on the area near the intersection at Lake Wolford & Valley Center Road where the several white cars were seen turning right (so east)

Unfortunately I know rain was starting just a bit south of there intermittently about 2 pm, and at times it was pretty heavy and got really ugly on the roads quickly - including a lot of surface streets that have been mentioned, and actually that intersection at LW Rd & VC Rd in particular at one point.

CHP and SDSO and SPDP have been in crazy rain mode since mid-late afternoon (some variation based on when weather started hitting) and having to deal with closing off entire areas because roads were totally underwater, evacuating entire complexes, etc. because things flooded so quickly since we were getting a lot of heavy rain quickly and then getting some breaks for a bit.

I was able to listen to the scanners during the day (and have been since I got home now) and was watching some other sites I have access to so I was keeping up in that sense earlier in case I heard anything interesting and also just because

There's been very little air support tonight because of the weather, and it'll likely be the same tomorrow, so I don't think they'll be getting aerial assistance searching unless there was something urgent found searching (and assuming there's no severe weather at that particular time).

And unless something drastic changes and all the storm predictions are wrong, all agencies will be in their "rainy day" mode and so pretty much only responding to emergencies (and only injury crashes, etc.). So I'd imagine that similarly, if something were found searching that could be of interest they'd get ground units out there, but it's going to be a tough day resource wise across the county - especially with tonight having been as bad as it was and that was with the bulk of the heavy rain coming long after the evening commute and when most people were staying put. :sheesh:

I think whether they want it or not, the family may be getting a largely forced "rest" day tomorrow because it's going to be so bad out there. And it'll be very, very dangerous to be out on the roads - THOSE roads in particular - and if they're walking along them it'll be even more dangerous than driving them I'm afraid

As desperately as Paul and Dianna need to be found - and as much as all they are focused on is finding them - tomorrow it's probably going to mostly be a matter of realizing if they end up hurt or injured taking risks, in the long run that could actually be worse for getting them found.

dillysmom11 said:

I'm curious - speaking hesitantly here - if other surveillance videos would show the Knutson's headed in the direction of LQ.

Click to expand...

I'll reply more to this tomorrow, but briefly, there would be some, but it's not likely to be very many.

And most would literally take someone going slowly past to find on private property since it's not like there are many that would be easy to decide to target first since it's largely rural routes with very little other than a few reservations with casinos off of it and not many other businesses that would be apt to have them (or to be good places to try first)

Unfortunately, that's true on many stretches of a lot of the possible routes as so much is rural and most of what isn't is more mixed residential.

Plus, there are actually several ways they could have headed to LQ to then determine possible cameras on.

Really though, I'm very afraid the white cars turning are unrelated and that particular video find (or that portion of it) may actually end up making it more difficult to find them since now it seems the family (and the searchers they are working with) are concentrating that way.

There are some places in particular I'd really like to see them try to get video from (in a few places on several different key routes).

One of the things I was mentally writing from the hospital was a list of some of those, as well as some questions I'd love to see if either the media (or the family through the email contact link) try to get answers on that I think could either be useful to even just thinking through possibilities, but also worth looking at for leads.

Now that the choppers have flown around for the last 3 or 4 days and seen nothing, I think the foot searchers should get out and look for one thing and one thing only. Go along the roads and investigate any area that is heavily overgrown with brush and trees. I don't think they have been seen by air because they can't see them.

I made a 130 mile drive yesterday on a business trip. All along the roadway there were heavy thickets of trees and bushes, in many cases almost creating a "wall" along the sides of the road. As I was driving along, I asked myself, if I was to just veer off the road and shoot straight into that thicket at 60 miles an hour, would my SUV become invisible ?

The answer was most likely yes. At that speed I would easily penetrate at least 100-200 feet past the face of the "wall", depending on what I hit along the way. The tall grass, bushes and trees behind me would likely hide the path of travel, since much of it would spring right back into position after the car past thru. The most important thing I noticed though was that many of the trees were 60 to 80 feet tall. Once my vehicle came to rest, it would be completely hidden from above by a canopy of tree branches.

Traffic passing by on the road would most likely be totally unaware I had veered off into the thicket, unless they slowed WAY down and looked directly down the path the car had taken. Even then, they might just see reflections of light coming from the windows and the paint, it might not appear to be a car at all.

It was funny, because as I was driving along, I remembered times in the past when I was being followed by someone for miles along a curvy winding road while keeping an eye on them in the rear view mirror. Casually, I looked back behind me again and the vehicle is gone. Poof ! I've asked myself, "I wonder where that guy turned off at ?.....hmmm ", at which point I fiddled with the stereo and continued on my way at 60 mph, never getting an answer to that question.

Maybe he took a trip into the wall.

Arizona motorist, 82, rescued after pick-up plunges off cliff

Police and firefighters used a basket and ropes to hoist an 82-year-old man to safety after his pickup truck left a rural road in Arizona and plunged 50 feet off a cliff, authorities said on Thursday.

Pinal County Sheriff's Office spokesman Mark Clark said it was not immediately clear why the truck had gone over the cliff east of the Queen Creek Tunnel on State Route 60.

"He was conscious and very grateful to his rescuers," Clark said of the driver, adding that he was fortunate the vehicle had not flipped onto its roof.

"It's certainly an area with cliffs and canyons that are a lot deeper than that so he's very lucky it wasn't worse," Clark said.

Click to expand...

http://news.yahoo.com/arizona-motorist-82-rescued-pick-plunges-off-cliff-162024941.html

One that ended well. At least someone was there to see what happened.

On Thursday, teams of orange-clad volunteers known as “Team Amber” organized a volunteer search center at Ridgeview Church in Valley Center. The team is led by Amber’s mom Carrie McGonigle and plans on combing remote areas of Valley – rain or shine. McGonigle’s 14-year-old daughter was abducted and killed in February of 2009. Since her daughter’s death, McGonigle formed Team Amber to help families find their missing loved ones.


“We’re already mapping out certain areas,” said McGonigle.


“We’re setting up all the paperwork, getting flyers together and hoping that [Friday] at 9:30 a.m. when we open we’ll have some people willing to help search for the family,” McGonigle said.

If you’d like to volunteer you can meet teams at the Ridgeview Church on Wohlford Road in Valley Center or contact Julie at 760-703-4307.

http://fox5sandiego.com/2015/05/14/amber-dubois-mom-joins-search-for-missing-couple/

bbm

I'm really happy they are doing a ground search today.

After talking with investigators and looking at video from both inside and outside of the casino, Acosta said:

"My dad had to stop a couple times because he was out of breath. You could see his chest and his stomach pumping in and out. My mom had to stop and lean against a pillar and then she used an inhaler; it was very obvious they were both having a hard time."

His parents are diabetic and could be seen in the video struggling to walk. They entered the casino around 9:30 a.m. and didn't leave until 2 p.m., the video shows they never ate a thing.

"I'm sure they were weak physically, it appeared so on the video. My fear is that there was a medical condition that took place."

http://www.10news.com/news/search-continues-for-couple-last-seen-at-casino-051315

JerseyGirl said:

After talking with investigators and looking at video from both inside and outside of the casino, Acosta said:

"My dad had to stop a couple times because he was out of breath. You could see his chest and his stomach pumping in and out. My mom had to stop and lean against a pillar and then she used an inhaler; it was very obvious they were both having a hard time."

His parents are diabetic and could be seen in the video struggling to walk. They entered the casino around 9:30 a.m. and didn't leave until 2 p.m., the video shows they never ate a thing.

"I'm sure they were weak physically, it appeared so on the video. My fear is that there was a medical condition that took place."

http://www.10news.com/news/search-continues-for-couple-last-seen-at-casino-051315

Click to expand...

What is puzzling to me, is that they are Both diabetic, and neither one brought their medication, even though they were going to be gone all day and spend the evening at their son's house.
Dianna had her inhaler with her, why not insulin?
I read an article that mentioned that the son had their medications. I am unclear as to when he found out they did not have the meds. Did he find out at the 10:30am phone call? Did he find out when he went to their home to get financial records, and saw the meds there at his parents house? Or did the parents spend the night at his house, and they left the insulin there at his house?
I found the article:

"Both are diabetic and dependent on insulin. Acosta has their medicine with him, in hopes that he can give it to them in person.
He's also brought their financial records from their home to give to investigators."


Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...ll-Cecil-Knutsen-303610941.html#ixzz3aDhtilO5


If the parents knew they did not have insulin, and did not eat, as per video, and were both weak, well, I don't understand this.
I don't take insulin, so I don't know how often they would take it, and why they Both would forget their meds, then not eat at all...
IMOO.

Some insulins are long acting, and only given once daily. This could explain not bringing it along, if they planned on being home by morning or so. Also, not all diabetics are compliant with taking medications as prescribed. Not saying this is the case, just another possibility. I think without eating, the bigger issue would be low blood sugar, which can be just as dangerous as high blood sugar.

Also, doesn't insulin have to be kept cold or refrigerated?

ETA:

http://www.consumermedsafety.org/insulin-safety-center/item/420


Insulin is very sensitive to sunlight, indoor lights, and to extremely hot or cold temperature.

Insulin is not OK to use if exposed to very hot or cold weather. The three drug manufacturers of insulin in the United States say UNOPENED insulin is best stored inside the fridge [2° to 8°Celcius (36° to 46°Fahrenheit)]. UNOPENED insulin stored in the refrigerator is good until the expiration date printed on the insulin box. The expiration date will usually be 1 year from the date of purchase but you have to check the box to find out.

The are is getting absolutely pounded with rain. I actually think, if they were in an accident and we are looking for a wrecked car, this might be helpful. Water in the desert has a way of pushing things away from brush and shrubs. If they are trapped and need water, also good. I fear the worst but am hopeful that the rain will bring the opportunity to find them, actually.

They'll find them in the next day or two. The calvary is on the way and more searchers are joining in..... all good.

Im still catching up, but this case really makes me sad.

OTOH, you guys warm my heart the way you go searching and caring and map-making and link-posting and more searching and you don't ask for credit or attention/fame or a rose on your nose for your awesome contributions and time! It is so refreshing and reconfirms my faith in humanity. Big hugs, super props, and sincere kudos! And of course, prayers and thoughts for the family. I can only imagine the pain.

Couple with links to 1965 Ind. murder victim missing
By Crimesider Staff, CBS News, May 14, '15, 2:15 pm

katydid23 said:

Also, doesn't insulin have to be kept cold or refrigerated?

ETA:

http://www.consumermedsafety.org/insulin-safety-center/item/420


Insulin is very sensitive to sunlight, indoor lights, and to extremely hot or cold temperature.

Insulin is not OK to use if exposed to very hot or cold weather. The three drug manufacturers of insulin in the United States say UNOPENED insulin is best stored inside the fridge [2° to 8°Celcius (36° to 46°Fahrenheit)]. UNOPENED insulin stored in the refrigerator is good until the expiration date printed on the insulin box. The expiration date will usually be 1 year from the date of purchase but you have to check the box to find out.

Click to expand...

I found various websites that sell insulated diabetic travel cases, so perhaps it is possible that they had a case(s) for each in their vehicle.

http://www.medicool.com/diabetes/diabetes_travel_diapak_elite.php
IMOO.

Since they did not eat anything surely they headed somewhere to get something at a grocery store like the General store that's near there.

Prayers they will find them!

They sound like responsible people, and it's possible they always keep insulin with them, just in case. Surely they have a system in place for their day trips that includes a small ice chest for drinks, insulin and a snack.