CO - Possible Serial Shooter Has Colorado Drivers on Edge #1

FindHG said:

Yes, Forager, I completely agree, though the shooter may have been going for random, the two he murdered and Cori, seem amazingly warm, kind, friendly people, which combined with magz, has me thinking well if that's the norm there, at random selection, let's move to CO.

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:grouphug:

Could Tomnod be of any help? Provide some satelite images to LE of the area/time of the shootings? They're right there...Le probably thought to contact them...if not there's an idea...(Tomnod is Digital Globe out of Longmont, Co....they helped with the missing Malaysian Airliner).



www.digitalglobe.com

FindHG said:

During the saddest times you just bump up the joy as it may be in these sad situations, but especially here as it is your home and a very pro-active situation, which is what keeps us up and here. The shooter means to shut down joy, I suppose too, keep people from moving, like any killjoy, I suppose, who doesn't like dynamic flow of communication among well intended people, an anal thing I've noticed time and again, that tends to shut things down, stop thought, answers, In the situations I'm familiar with it turns out to be motivated in power ploys.

What's your sense of things today being there n all?

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Bumping Forager's Map.

Just wanted to bump this, as I'm sure nobody wants this thread to be shut down again.

bessie said:

The thread is open for posting again.

Please be considerate of the other members who are trying to follow this thread, but find it difficult to do so because of the large number of distracting personal and off topic posts.

Thanks.

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FindHG said:

Any thoughts on the shooter?

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<modsnip>

Oh, and as for the shooter -- it seems like we could be talking about many unrelated incidents here. LE has thus far only linked two incidents, so far as I know, but many, many more have been mentioned here.

eta: There is really very little information on the incidents that are confirmed as part of the 'serial shootings', so I can't really say right now. LE has said that they are going to limit the information they divulge, which makes perfect sense. But I think that if we're obliged to consider every broken window or windshield as the actions of the same serial shooter, then it will be impossible to guess, as the signal to noise ratio is too low.

FindHG said:

Much appreciated Foxfire, the latest reporting makes me think your message may have been heard. I hope you know and understand how much it means to me to have you on a thread and to have chance to learn from you.

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Thank you very much for the kind words, FindHG.. and I sure hope, as we all do, that there is no more innocent lives lost before the perp/s is brought to justice..
While researching some information on unsolved homicides/cold cases, in the US earlier this evening. I ran across an interesting NPR article that included Vernon Geberth; retired NYPD Homicide Detective, Lt Commander, and author of "The Bible of Homicide Investigation"..

Open Cases: Why One-Third Of Murders In America Go Unresolved
MARCH 30, 2015
http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395069137/open-cases-why-one-third-of-murders-in-america-go-unresolved

If you're murdered in America, there's a 1 in 3 chance that the police won't identify your killer.

<Martin Kaste reported this audio story in two parts on Morning Edition and All Things Considered. Listen to Part 1 above. To hear Part 2, click the audio link below>

To Catch Up On Unsolved Murders, Detroit Detectives Mine Cold Cases

To use the FBI's terminology, the national "clearance rate" for homicide today is 64.1 percent. Fifty years ago, it was more than 90 percent.

And that's worse than it sounds, because "clearance" doesn't equal conviction: It's just the term that police use to describe cases that end with an arrest, or in which a culprit is otherwise identified without the possibility of arrest &#8212; if the suspect has died, for example.

Criminologists estimate that at least 200,000 murders have gone unsolved since the 1960s, leaving family and friends to wait and wonder.

Vernon Geberth, a retired, self-described NYPD "murder cop" who wrote the definitive manual on solving homicides, says standards for charging someone are higher now &#8212; too high, in his opinion. He thinks prosecutors nowadays demand that police deliver "open-and-shut cases" that will lead to quick plea bargains.
<snipped - read more or Listen to the 2 part NPR interviews @ Link>

margarita25 said:

One thing I've been meaning to mention, Jacoby was shot twice. The shooter was "going for a kill" it looks like.

How far apart were the shots fired...meaning, did he shoot him once, maybe chase him more, then shoot him again...or did he pop them both off and they both landed right away?

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This has stuck with me, as well. I'm still on page five so forgive me while I catch up. Hope to see more discussion regarding this. The fact that he was shot twice really confuses me.

margarita25 said:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/30/us/colorado-shootings-linked/index.html
*video at link

"The paramedics arrived," she told KDVR, "and they took a look at the wound and they started telling people to leave because it was considered a crime scene, which didn't really register with me."

The bullet had passed clean through her neck. She said she underwent surgery and is now back home."

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Forgive me as I know very little about ballistics and this is a bit graphic (and I'm still catching up) but is the fact that the bullet passed cleanly through CR at all relevant? Does that give us any insight into what kind of ammo may have been used? Or what kind definitely wasn't?

luckyseven said:

This has stuck with me, as well. I'm still on page five so forgive me while I catch up. Hope to see more discussion regarding this. The fact that he was shot twice really confuses me.

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I've given this some thought too...I think with CR they found a bullet hole in her door and then the through and through wound on her neck...my husband told me someone intentionally shooting twice might do a double tap to get two shots off rapidly...with JJ I wonder if he was shot once and then the killer backed up and shot him again?..with WC they wouldn't say how many times he was shot...but the idea of shooting twice from a moving vehicle with accuracy of hitting one target is perplexing ...people here have been talking about 2 shooters but I don't know ...seems so depraved that it would be hard to keep anyone from noticing them...

luckyseven said:

Forgive me as I know very little about ballistics and this is a bit graphic (and I'm still catching up) but is the fact that the bullet passed cleanly through CR at all relevant? Does that give us any insight into what kind of ammo may have been used? Or what kind definitely wasn't?

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Yes, luckyseven, although no verified expert, I have been around guns since six years old when I got my first Daisy BB Gun. As a hunter for over five decades and a Vietnam era veteran/army mechanized infantry. I have fired everything from M16s to Grenade Launchers & 50 caliber machine guns..
If the bullet had not passed through CRs' neck, it would have been easier for CSIs' to retrieve. Much info can be mined from the wound itself; entrance and exit wounds, etc.. Imo, the firearm used to shoot CR was likely a 22 caliber. Anything larger would likely have been fatal due to the size of the exit wound.. CR had a guardian angel watching over her that day, imo.. The following is an informative article with photos;
<warning graphic photos>

Background on Gunshot Wounds
http://www.relentlessdefense.com/forensics/gunshot-wounds/

Gunshot wounds can be either penetrating or perforating. In a penetrating wound, the bullet enters an object and remains inside, while in a perforating wound, the bullet passes completely through the object. In some cases, the wound can be both penetrating and perforating, in that it penetrates some part of the body, such as the head, but perforates certain parts, such as the skull or brain.

In a perforating wound, the bullet creates an exit wound as it escapes the body. An exit wound differs greatly from an entrance wound. An entrance wound is surrounded by a reddish-brown area of abraded skin, known as the abrasion ring, and small amounts of blood escape through. An exit wound, on the other hand, is larger and more irregular, with extruding tissue and no abrasion ring. There is far more blood that escapes an exit wound, and it can possibly be profuse.

After the bullet enters through the skin, the skin retracts due to its elasticity. This will make the wound appear smaller than the bullet that has passed through. The bullet usually travels in a straight line, but its direction is unpredictable if it hits a bone. When this occurs, the bone may be shattered or the bullet may deflect and be sent to another area of the body.
<snipped - read more>

Interesting read on Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives<ATF> ballistics database;

National Integrated Ballistic Information Network (NIBIN)

Crimes are solved by law enforcement following up on intelligence information from ballistic imaging technology. Since the 1990s, ATF has worked with our law enforcement partners to place the capabilities of the NIBIN Network where it can help incarcerate armed violent offenders plaguing our communities. Today ATF has the capability to share ballistics intelligence across the United States making law enforcement resources more effective.

NIBIN Program - How it Works?

The NIBIN Program automates ballistics evaluations and provides actionable investigative leads in a timely manner. NIBIN is the only interstate automated ballistic imaging network in operation in the United States and is available to most major population centers in the United States.
* Success Stories
* NIBIN Fact Sheets
* Publications
https://www.atf.gov/content/Firearms/firearms-enforcement/NIBIN

<snipped - read more>

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Thank you

<modsnip>
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Let's pretend we KNOW the windows and the three shootings are connected. First we had the window shattering, then Cori was shot. Window shatterings continued. They filled the void until JJ was shot and killed. Now we have only a few POSSIBLE connected shattered windows. Then we have the most recent murder. IF these are all connected , it doesn't look like the shooter is getting that thrill/ downtime from shooting the windows anymore. I have a very bad feeling the shooter is going to escalate much more quickly now. ( assuming they aren't caught soon)
Whatcha think Foxy? Anyone?

Foxfire, in a earlier post you referred to subliminal message in a video at Gretawire...it took me a few minutes to see it, playing it over and over, but I finally saw it...a quick flash of the words on the bottom about the FBI descending on the State...and that story was about the most recent possible link...I think the fact the FBI was involved so quickly after the murder in Windsor speaks volumes to what is going on here...but they are not going to tell us ... I was reading about the Beltway Sniper and never realized before that the pair actually started shooting people in February of that year and then in other places around the country before they got to DC in October...I can't help but think there is something much bigger going on here...and since I'm here and fear for my safety and that of my family...well, I do wish they would give us more info...it concerns me that the former FBI guy is saying that LE should give us more but they haven't ...I wonder why that is?

searchinGirl said:

I've given this some thought too...I think with CR they found a bullet hole in her door and then the through and through wound on her neck...my husband told me someone intentionally shooting twice might do a double tap to get two shots off rapidly...with JJ I wonder if he was shot once and then the killer backed up and shot him again?..with WC they wouldn't say how many times he was shot...but the idea of shooting twice from a moving vehicle with accuracy of hitting one target is perplexing ...people here have been talking about 2 shooters but I don't know ...seems so depraved that it would be hard to keep anyone from noticing them...

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It could be a duo competition thing going.

Or he had the rifle attached to something while driving. So once his vehicle is aligned he could just pull the trigger without manually aiming.

searchinGirl said:

Foxfire, in a earlier post you referred to subliminal message in a video at Gretawire...it took me a few minutes to see it, playing it over and over, but I finally saw it...a quick flash of the words on the bottom about the FBI descending on the State...and that story was about the most recent possible link...I think the fact the FBI was involved so quickly after the murder in Windsor speaks volumes to what is going on here...but they are not going to tell us ... I was reading about the Beltway Sniper and never realized before that the pair actually started shooting people in February of that year and then in other places around the country before they got to DC in October...I can't help but think there is something much bigger going on here...and since I'm here and fear for my safety and that of my family...well, I do wish they would give us more info...it concerns me that the former FBI guy is saying that LE should give us more but they haven't ...I wonder why that is?

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<BBM for Focus>
SearchinGirl, once aware of the extremely high number of vehicle windows being shattered on roadways in such a small geographical area. It is very possible that the local CO LEAs contacted the FBI to check the VICAP database for similar occurrences, either in CO or elsewhere in the USA. In many cases the FBI CIRG agents at Quantico, VA may observe a pattern of crimes in the database confined to an area and contact unsuspecting local LEAs.
In the 2009 DC sniper case, the VICAP database website had only been accessible to local and state LEAs for less than a year.

Imo, the dots were collected<shattered vehicle windows> by different local LE jurisdictions, but the dots may have not been connected due to jurisdiction linkage blindness; a phrase coined by Dr Steven Egger in the 1970s.. There are only two investigative resources/tools that prevent or combat linkage blindness; an informed aware citizenry & VICAP, imo.. The silent investigative strategy combined with linkage blindness has enabled many predators/serial killers to remain stealth for years or decades undetected while preying on unsuspecting innocent victims in the past, imo..

Hope this link helps, SearchinGirl..and stay safe..


FBI VICAP <Violent Criminal Apprehension Program>
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/august/vicap-anniversary

Fighting Violent Crime for 25 Years - 08/26/10

When serial killers or rapists strike in different communities or even across multiple states, it may be hard to identify and capture them&#8212;because information about their crimes is stored separately in the files of various local police agencies.

But for the past 25 years, the FBI&#8217;s Violent Criminal Apprehension Program, or ViCAP, has been used by state and local law enforcement across the nation precisely to help find and stop such dangerous villains by drawing links between their seemingly unconnected crimes.

VICAP serves as the national repository for violent crimes, specifically those involving homicides, sexual assaults, missing persons, and unidentified human remains. The VICAP Web National Crime Database is not available to the general public or the media&#8212;it&#8217;s strictly for law enforcement. Its information&#8212;obtainable through a secure website since 2008&#8212;is protected by strong encryption, controlled access, and strict adherence to federal privacy laws.

VICAP is part of the FBI&#8217;s National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime, and both operate under the auspices of our Critical Incident Response Group.

How it works. Investigators from participating agencies electronically enter in-depth data on their case directly into ViCAP Web. This can include details on the victim(s), type of trauma, weapons used, information about the suspect and any composite images, crime scene specifics, vehicle descriptions, modus operandi, and more.

Investigators can then search ViCAP Web for cases similar to theirs&#8230;anywhere in the United States. If any are found, investigators can read the details and&#8212;if they&#8217;re convinced there might actually be a link&#8212;reach out to the law enforcement agency point of contact for further discussion.

Meanwhile&#8230; At the ViCAP office in Virginia, FBI analysts review all incoming cases. First, they examine each submission to ensure the quality of the data. But then&#8212;based on public safety concerns and requests from investigators&#8212;they delve deeper into certain cases, looking for similarities, searching other FBI and non-FBI databases, and preparing reports that offer fresh investigative leads.

searchinGirl said:

I've given this some thought too...I think with CR they found a bullet hole in her door and then the through and through wound on her neck...my husband told me someone intentionally shooting twice might do a double tap to get two shots off rapidly...with JJ I wonder if he was shot once and then the killer backed up and shot him again?..with WC they wouldn't say how many times he was shot...but the idea of shooting twice from a moving vehicle with accuracy of hitting one target is perplexing ...people here have been talking about 2 shooters but I don't know ...seems so depraved that it would be hard to keep anyone from noticing them...

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Catching up.

Yeah this is really interesting. I need to study back about the 2 shot thing.

My first initial thought is 2 punks saying to each other lets fire on the count of 3.
"1, 2, 3, fire"

Sometimes criminals will convince each other to do a crime by convincing each other to do it. And if 1 person is having some doubts, then the other more control freak person will convince the other with a method like this. He would say to the other that they will both shoot on the count of 3 so that they both are in on it together.

I need to read back up on the details of the shootings.

Just want to add too that if it was 2 shooters in at least one of the crimes, it doesnt mean that it would be 2 shooters in all of them either. Because the more dominant control freak person could venture off on his own on some days and decide to do some random shooting of his own.

As far as possible profiling the shooter(s). I have to wonder if the criminal(s) got a sick motivation to do this sort of thing by watching the movie "American Sniper".
Right now, I am still thinking a relatively young criminal(s).

Foxfire said:

SugarQueen, yes I agree that the CO serial shooter/likely serial killer is becoming more tauntingly brazened. The unknown perp/s seems to be rapidly escalating in the frequency and magnitude of his/her/their deviant crimes.. Very similar to a drug addiction when the addicts' tolerance level escalates..'Chasing the dragon'.. It is critical that all available investigative resources be utilized to prevent this from happening, imo.
'Imo, there is no such thing as a perfect crime, only imperfect investigations'..

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Thanks Foxfire for the wealth of informative links.

I agree that the perp(s) had gotten more brazen. I think the only thing that may slow them down is if LE or something happens that makes him think that LE is on his heels.

For example, if LE had knocked on his door asking questions or interviewed his relatives or friends about him and he got wind of that. Then that may slow him down to a standstill.

Hatfield said:

Thanks Foxfire for the wealth of informative links.

I agree that the perp(s) had gotten more brazen. I think the only thing that may slow them down is if LE or something happens that makes him think that LE is on his heels.

For example, if LE had knocked on his door asking questions or interviewed his relatives or friends about him and he got wind of that. Then that may slow him down to a standstill.

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Hatfield, thanx for the kind words.. Yes, the perp/s may very well go dormant. Even if he/she/they even thinks that they are under suspicion. They will likely lay low, go on the defensive, and temporarily cease killing, based on observations of the behavior of predators that I have researched in the past.. The up sides to that are that it will buy time for Task Force investigators to follow up on leads, complete forensics testing, hopefully provide info to the public, and there will likely not be any more innocent victims' lives lost..jmo..