CO - Possible Serial Shooter Has Colorado Drivers on Edge #2

Originally Posted by PrairieWind
Agreed, plus that fact that many window shatterings weren't reported by the public until later on. You also don't involve the FBI for a random shooting/killing as well. There was something about the Windsor murder that brought the FBI in almost immediately and that linked it to Cori Romero.

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Originally Posted by Foxfire
One would guess that it was likely due to a ballistics match, PrairieWind. Makes you wonder if there wasn't an FBI VICAP hit for a similar unsolved serial shooter scenario from another area of CO, or another US state, linked due to the recovered bullet in CR's case which would have been a month before the Jacoby murder.

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PrairieWind said:

One thing I just realized, is that the FBI joined the investigation just one day after the Jacoby shooting. Could they have even had ballistics back that quick? Or was there some other clue that linked them?

http://kdvr.com/2015/05/19/fbi-joins-investigation-into-fatal-shooting-of-windsor-cyclist/

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<BBM for Focus>

PrairieWind, too many questions and theories, and very few answers...
Could it be due to a ballistics match of the bullet recovered in CR's case which would have been a month before the Jacoby murder and an FBI VICAP hit for a prior similar unsolved case? Or, was the bullet recovered in the Jacoby murder a ballistics match to one or more of bullets recovered<yet not publicly released> in the April/May auto window shattering incidents? This wouldn't surprise me at all due to the degree of downplaying by investigators in the initial stages of this investigation. jmo
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In this interview by CNN with CR, she said bullets<plural> hit her car..
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/05/22/ctn-intv-lemon-cori-romero-colorado-shooting.cnn

Foxfire, perhaps. But what stumps me is how fast the FBI was in on this. Was there enough time for Jacoby to be found, the scene processed, an autopsy done, the bullets recovered, and ballistics done, and the FBI notified all in one day? I do think ballistics linked it to Cori, but I wonder if there wasn't something else about the Jacoby murder/scene that alerted LE that something else was going on.

PrairieWind said:

Foxfire, perhaps. But what stumps me is how fast the FBI was in on this. Was there enough time for Jacoby to be found, the scene processed, an autopsy done, the bullets recovered, and ballistics done, and the FBI notified all in one day? I do think ballistics linked it to Cori, but I wonder if there wasn't something else about the Jacoby murder/scene that alerted LE that something else was going on.

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PrairieWind, I edited my prior comment/post. There was almost a month after CR's shooting before the Jacoby murder. There would have been ample time for a ballistics match of a bullet recovered from a prior shooting incident, which may have not been publicly released by LE..

Foxfire said:

PrairieWind, I edited my prior comment/post. There was almost a month after CR's shooting before the Jacoby murder. There would have been ample time for a ballistics match of a bullet recovered from a prior shooting incident, which may have not been publicly released by LE..

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ok, I see what you're saying. Then perhaps when Jacoby was murdered, even before ballistics were available, they maybe just made an educated guess, based on information they already had, that it was linked, and contacted the FBI, who may have already been alerted before hand after Cori was shot.

PrairieWind said:

ok, I see what you're saying. Then perhaps when Jacoby was murdered, even before ballistics were available, they maybe just made an educated guess, based on information they already had, that it was linked, and contacted the FBI, who may have already been alerted before hand after Cori was shot.

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Right, the bullet ballistics entered into the VICAP database from the CR shooting almost a month prior to the Jacoby murder may have been the catalyst for the FBI's initial involvement and forming of the task force.. In other words the same gun/firearm used in another crime/s may have already been in the FBI's database. The FBI may have contacted CO authorities..

The primary reason for lowering the victim number to two in the 2005 FBI redefining of Serial Killer/Murder was to enable the FBI to assist state and local Law Enforcement Agencies early in a serial investigation..

SugarQueen said:

Still not believing Colorado has weird,mutant, sideways flying, window smashing road debris.

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Lmao :biggrin:

Super posts to catch up with, thank you all. I'm guessing other agencies joined the investigation and formed the task force when they realized they had the same perp/s murdering people, or trying to. Would any of you who happen to drive up and down I 25 happen to have caught sight of any cleaning crews along the highway ever, municipal, county, state?

Jumping off SQ's post re: weird, mutant sideways-flying road debris floorlaugh, I wonder if there are any reports out there from any auto insurance companies, say nationally, or by state, that have shattering statistics with descriptions of different incidents involving road debris, for reference?

Also, re" "road debris", what all could be on this list? Of course it could be an assortment of unknown items which may fall off the back of a truck, but generally, e are going to have:

Rocks alligators (those black 18-wheeler tire debris), signs...I'm sure there is a long list :lookingitup:

Eta: Some links on "road debris":

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_debris

"Road debris can be caused by various factors, including objects falling off vehicles or natural disasters and weather, specifically wind, storms, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc.[3]

Plant seeds on a road, dispersed by a car.

Examples of road debris include:


Particulates, dust, dirt, sand, and mud[4]Asphalt, concrete, pebbles, rocks/stones/bouldersIce, snow, water (puddles or flooding), and other liquids like grease and engine oil[4]Particles of road salt and other de-icersPlants and their parts branches, leaves, sticks, twigs, seeds etc.Litter, food, furniture, mattresses, and other garbage/trash/waste[3][5]Glass, nails, screws, and other sharp objectsAuto parts, tire tread, etc.[3]Bicycles, roof racks, luggage, lumber, construction supplies, and other items dropped from vehicle windows deliberately or accidentallyAnimal[5] corpses (roadkillBroken glass, plastic, and other materials that fall off vehicles during traffic collisions"

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(Its gotta be the "roof rack"...)

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The above link states "construction materials", so a list of these include:
(A google search of "road debris" and "construction materials" reveals:

Arrrgh, my computer is fried, sorry, have to pick up here later...

There are various sites and links that discuss this, and the regulations associated of proper disposal of these materials, etc.

PrairieWind said:

ok, I see what you're saying. Then perhaps when Jacoby was murdered, even before ballistics were available, they maybe just made an educated guess, based on information they already had, that it was linked, and contacted the FBI, who may have already been alerted before hand after Cori was shot.

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One thing to remember too was if they recovered a shell casing (the empty hollow
brass-colored long cylindrical looking thing) and had already recovered another one from a previous shooting site, then it would be very easy to make a quick initial comparison of the casing and the primer.

They would immediately know the caliber of the bullet if they found a casing. So lets say they found a 9mm casing. If they already had a 9mm from one of the other shooting sites, that would give them a quick initial suspicion that the incident matches the other one. The caliber markers are on the casing.

Also, then a quick visual inspection of the primer could further confirm their suspicion.

The primer is the small round thing on bottom of a shell casing that the firing pin hits that makes a small explosion to set off the main gunpowder in a shell.

A quick visual comparison of the mark that the firing pin made on the primer would tell them if the same gun appears to have been used.

Both those initial checks would take just a few minutes. Obviously further analysis and more closer inspection would be done using microscopes and an expert, but I can guarantee that any novice person could make a quick educated guess as to whether the same gun shot those 2 shell casings. It is very obvious when looking at a primer to see if the markings look the same where the firing pin hit and the small indent it made. It doesnt even take a microscope to check that for an initial guess.

So, the bottom line is if they had a previous shell casing and then got a new one from a new site, it would be a matter of minutes and they would have a pretty good guess whether the same gun was used.

searchinGirl said:

And seeing something unusual around Boulder is well...not unusual...

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Very good!

there are a lot of construction projects between Denver and Wyoming on I-25...many between Berthoud and Ft. Collins...
https://www.codot.gov/projects/NorthI-25

searchinGirl said:

there are a lot of construction projects between Denver and Wyoming on I-25...many between Berthoud and Ft. Collins...
https://www.codot.gov/projects/NorthI-25

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Yep. I had noticed that too and was going to mention it. I wonder if that is affecting the shooter?

Task force: No links between shootings, broken windows
Jason Pohl, The Coloradoan, 3:23 pm, mdt, June 19, '15 reports

"In some of the most definitive language to date, the task force"

[... addressed the public, exactly one month since Mr. Jacoby's murder]

"The incidents on area highways show no distinguishable patterns. Likely, windows are being broken by road debris, the task force members say. A work group within the task force continues to investigate."

[...]



Northern Colorado Law Agencies Issue Statement on Shootings
CBS 5 News Channel, Fri, 3:17 pm [today],
Just the full text of LE's Statement




Northern Colorado shootings task force sends letter to public, includes shattered windows update
Deb Stanley, ABC7 TheDenverChannel, 6:40 am, June 19, '15
updated with video from about 49 minutes ago

Mark Stewart speaks with people in Loveland who would like more answers though they believe LE is on it, in so many words, not these same.



TASK FORCE: NO EVIDENCE GLASS SHATTERINGS TIED TO SHOOTINGS
By Michael Roberts, WestWorld, Fri, June 9th, '15
Includes more updated information

PrairieWind said:

Yep. I had noticed that too and was going to mention it. I wonder if that is affecting the shooter?

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hard to say...something else I noticed is Weld County is currently constructing it's largest road project in 154 years...WCR 49 et al...a 20 mile stretch of road east of Greeley... running north-south between Hwy 34 and Hwy 60.5, with 2 bridges - one crosses the Cache La Poudre, the other the South Platte, both of which are receding from flood stage at the moment...and I didn't read about the politics of the situation but ground breaking was last October with the Governor in attendance so it must be a big deal...one window was shattered on WCR 49 south of the construction project...another southeast of that on WCR 37...both on the same day...4/23...the day after Cori Romero was shot...

PrairieWind said:

Yep. I had noticed that too and was going to mention it. I wonder if that is affecting the shooter?

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Respectfully, I think that this is the wrong question. All of the construction means that there is more road debris, so it's more likely to have road debris as the reason behind a shattering. The recent information shared in the post by FindHG above suggests as much.

Montjoy said:

Respectfully, I think that this is the wrong question. All of the construction means that there is more road debris, so it's more likely to have road debris as the reason behind a shattering. The recent information shared in the post by FindHG above suggests as much.

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then respectfully, why can't we get a physical science explanation of how all these side-shattering and rear shattering of car windows occurs?...

searchinGirl said:

then respectfully, why can't we get a physical science explanation of how all these side-shattering and rear shattering of car windows occurs?...

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I welcome such long and explanatory statement at face value, even if it doesn't answer all the questions, it respects the public's concern for more information and a need for assurance of LE's efforts. All concerns, the press, LE and the public, seem to be pressing each other toward answers which is a good thing. It's possible all isn't yet known about the shattered windows, as LE mentions, and they are still collecting evidence and information, which is fair, given the circumstances, but the outreach is very deliberate and open, it seems to me for LE, on one page across agencies, heartfelt, and straight forward, about why no new information is being made available, as stated here:

[...]

"At any given time, there may be investigators active in the field, staff monitoring tip lines, analysts reviewing data that has been compiled, technicians preparing reports, lab personnel analyzing evidence, prosecutors reviewing warrant applications, commanders adjusting strategies, officers on the street looking for suspicious activity, or any number of other experts providing their specialized expertise."

[...]

While the task force doesn't have all the answers we need yet, we do know definitively that they have monumentally more facts on the cases than those who are publicly speculating. And the task force moves forward from the lessons learned in previous serial shooting cases.

[...]

"we will continue to seek the assistance of anyone who may possess information that may help us solve these crimes. If you believe you have information that we should know about, please call the task force tip line at 970-498-5595, or send an email to taskforce@larimer.org"

PrairieWind said:

Yep. I had noticed that too and was going to mention it. I wonder if that is affecting the shooter?

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I can't see how it wouldn't be affecting the shooter. As much as LE is addressing the public, their main motivation in what they say may be the shooter, it seems possible. A first reaction on the part of the press or even WSers may be to bristle at the letter for it's lack of detail, but there is information there about how the investigation has been conduct, where things stand, that are suspects are being considered and ruled out, that the shattered windows are not being dismissed out of hand nor is any information presented to exactly back that part other than anecdotal.

searchinGirl said:

then respectfully, why can't we get a physical science explanation of how all these side-shattering and rear shattering of car windows occurs?...

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I'm sure we could try, but as poorly equipped as we are to discuss the criminological and psychological explanations/theories of a serial shooter, I suspect we're even worse equipped to explain the complex physics of a window shattering.

But it doesn't mean that we can't try, and I've never suggested we shouldn't.

Originally Posted by searchinGirl
then respectfully, why can't we get a physical science explanation of how all these side-shattering and rear shattering of car windows occurs?...

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Montjoy said:

I'm sure we could try, but as poorly equipped as we are to discuss the criminological and psychological explanations/theories of a serial shooter, I suspect we're even worse equipped to explain the complex physics of a window shattering.

But it doesn't mean that we can't try, and I've never suggested we shouldn't.

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I think that seearchinGirl was trying to make the point that the proponents of the road debris / temperature changes / vibrations theory have never supported their theory with evidence or a convincing argument. They just assert and reassert.

Forager said:

I think that seearchinGirl was trying to make the point that the proponents of the road debris / temperature changes / vibrations theory have never supported their theory with evidence or a convincing argument. They just assert and reassert.

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Fair enough -- but what I was pointing out was that exactly the same (valid) argument that you have made can be applied to the shooter (or multiple shooters) theories. If anything, the debris theory has the backing of the experts employed by LE. The shooter theories that are so popular here are based on no real evidence, but feed off of a lot of fear and uncertainty.