IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #6

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Cubby said:
I have a personal reason for being angry and I will share it. Overcoming depression is work. Counseling, therapy, medications etc. is work. Resigning to the fact that in some cases antidepressant medication is a lifetime necessity to function normally is work.
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I have suffered from depression as well and need to take my meds every day for the rest of my life. (I've tried coming off - no go!) I've even been hospitalized for it. But I am also very lucky and blessed that I was able to overcome my depression. Yes, it was hard, so hard that I realize how lucky I am. To me, one of depressions best tricks is to make you think that there is no hope. It is impossible to know what is in someone's head when they make such a drastic and final decision. We can guess. There may be reasons, but there never is truly an explanation. So while I really wish he hadn't done what he did, and wish he hadn't tried to make it look like a line of duty killing, etc...he did what he did for reasons only he could know or understand, or perhaps he may not have even understood.

I think we will know more tomorrow. I am looking forward to the presser and hopefully more facts.
 
Cubby said:
I have a personal reason for being angry and I will share it. Overcoming depression is work. Counseling, therapy, medications etc. is work. Resigning to the fact that in some cases antidepressant medication is a lifetime necessity to function normally is work.
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Amen to that! I, too, have been there. For me, to commit suicide is a slap in God' face. No matter how bad things get, He is there to prevent us from doing it if we ask. I'm not trying to bring religion into this, but, from personal experience, I know how bad things can get.

Someone told me once, "Suicide is a long-term solution to a short-term problem."
 
TheDuchess said:
<snipped by me> . . . Just because her husband made the choice to end his own life, shouldn't mean that she should be responsible for what he caused.
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But he did MORE than just that. Had he gone into the woods and offed himself without trying to implicate others, there would not have been the expense and turmoil that was caused by his attempt to make it look like he was killed in the line of duty.

I agree that the family should not be punished or held liable for the LT's 'choice' to kill himself. However, they are not entitled to benefits stemming from an attempted act of fraud, either.
 
Chuz Life said:
I agree with all of this except that I'm not angry about it or indignant in any way. Though I do hope that extreme care is taken to handle the situation in a way that sends a clear message to any other officers who might be otherwise inclined to try something along the same line someday.
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Misleading info and involving others does make me angry.
It is difficult to trust anybody nowadays imo. Here's another example.
His son was adamant his dad wouldn't take his own life.
Now he has this to deal with and is still so young.
 
Chuz Life said:
This hits very close to home.
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On the tablet and that last post went through before I was finished. I will just say there are a great many people out there toughing out far more difficult circumstances and willing to do the work it takes to overcome those challenges knowing that work is not going to provide immediate results. I have far more respect for those willing to do the work than those who choose to take their life and lie about their circumstances.


Apparently Lt. CG wasn't willing to do the work it takes to overcome the challenges he was facing...and to hell with how his choice was going to affect his wife, children, siblings, parents etc.etc.

That is where my anger stems from.
 
Woe.be.gone said:
Misleading info and involving others does make me angry.
It is difficult to trust anybody nowadays imo. Here's another example.
His son was adamant his dad wouldn't take his own life.
Now he has this to deal with and is still so young.
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That's a very big concern of mine too. As I understand it and having seen it for myself, suicides can become very contagious.
 
Cubby said:
On the tablet and that last post went through before I was finished. I will just say there are a great many people out there toughing out far more difficult circumstances and willing to do the work it takes to overcome those challenges knowing that work is not going to provide immediate results. I have far more respect for those willing to do the work than those who choose to take their life and lie about their circumstances.


Apparently Lt. CG wasn't willing to do the work it takes to overcome the challenges he was facing...and to hell with how his choice was going to affect his wife, children, siblings, parents etc.etc.

That is where my anger stems from.
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In that way, your anger is well placed - imo.
 
Chuz Life said:
But he did MORE than just that. Had he gone into the woods and offed himself without trying to implicate others, there would not have been the expense and turmoil that was caused by his attempt to make it look like he was killed in the line of duty.

I agree that the family should not be punished or held liable for the LT's 'choice' to kill himself. However, they are not entitled to benefits stemming from an attempted act of fraud, either.
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They aren't getting a benefit stemming from an act of fraud. They money is already their's. You are asking them to take it back. That pension was earned over 30 years of service regardless of the final outcome. Hasn't this family suffered enough? Why make it worse?
 
Cubby said:
On the tablet and that last post went through before I was finished. I will just say there are a great many people out there toughing out far more difficult circumstances and willing to do the work it takes to overcome those challenges knowing that work is not going to provide immediate results. I have far more respect for those willing to do the work than those who choose to take their life and lie about their circumstances.


Apparently Lt. CG wasn't willing to do the work it takes to overcome the challenges he was facing...and to hell with how his choice was going to affect his wife, children, siblings, parents etc.etc.

That is where my anger stems from.
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And I tried very hard to keep on his side (give him the benefit of doubt) because so many people said how great he was to everyone who knew him.
But how can a random poster such as myself really know what motivated the guy?
In other words, what drove him? Purposes serving glory for himself or helping to lend a hand to others? The pics and comments I saw caused me to question but ran contrary to public, especially during the first few weeks.
The concerning subject isn't suicide but few people are so wonderful anyway.
 
TheDuchess said:
They aren't getting a benefit stemming from an act of fraud. They money is already their's. You are asking them to take it back. That pension was earned over 30 years of service regardless of the final outcome. Hasn't this family suffered enough? Why make it worse?
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Firstly, I am not seeking to make things worse or to see the Lt's family 'suffer.' I am looking at the big picture as objectively as I possible can and as a judge might look at it. I disagree with your premise, when you say the money is already theirs as though it is a given and automatic. I disagree with that for several reasons. For one, we now know that the LT himself may have been under investigation. For what? We don't completely know. Yet. But there ARE things that he COULD have been involved in that would jeopardize his entitlements to any benefits. Including his right to his pension.
 
Just a note. I don't have a link, but since I am fairly local and was actually among many friends this evening that live in Fox Lake and many on social media, I am absolutely SHOCKED at the response I am hearing. It has been overwhelmingly disbelief in the suicide theory and MANY saying it is a cover up and an inside job. These are people with connections to local LE in the community. I wasn't expecting it. I was expecting everyone to say they had suspected this, or perhaps sad to hear this, but I couldn't believe the response out there. Seriously. Check some of the comments on the local stories out there, especially FB's of the bigger news outlets like ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX local affiliates. It's pretty heated.
 
Chuz Life said:
Firstly, I am not seeking to make things worse or to see the Lt's family 'suffer.' I am looking at the big picture as objectively as I possible can and as a judge might look at it. I disagree with your premise, when you say the money is already theirs as though it is a given and automatic. I disagree with that for several reasons. For one, we now know that the LT himself may have been under investigation. For what? We don't completely know. Yet. But there ARE things that he COULD have been involved in that would jeopardize his entitlements to any benefits. Including his right to his pension.
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OJ Simpson still collects his pension and the Goldman's can't even touch it. Pensions are pretty tight. It is very difficult to take away someone's pension, a high bar to set.
 
TheDuchess said:
They aren't getting a benefit stemming from an act of fraud. They money is already their's. You are asking them to take it back. That pension was earned over 30 years of service regardless of the final outcome. Hasn't this family suffered enough? Why make it worse?
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The monetary concern relates to the extra pay granted when killed in the line of duty if false. At least for me it does.
It isn't honorable to take yourself out while trying to look like a hero.
 
TheDuchess said:
It actually doesn't work that way. She is entitled to that pension regardless of who earned it. My brother's ex wife gets half of his pension and she deserves it. Families make certain agreements about who will be breadwinner and who will raise the children. You cannot say that just because she didn't "earn" it she doesn't "deserve" it. And as far as the expenses for the manhunt, how can you possibly expect her and her kids to pay for something like that? While that money may seem like a lot, it isn't. It needs to last her for the rest of her life. She is still raising children, still likely has a mortgage and may not have the work skills to begin a new career at this stage in her life. She counted on that money. Just because her husband made the choice to end his own life, shouldn't mean that she should be responsible for what he caused. There is also the view from many here that the manhunt was unnecessary, overblown, the investigation too long, etc... So I could imagine, in that vein, ,the wife could claim that the expenses paid and charged to her were overblown.

The fact of the matter is that the precedent here is that you would then need to charge any survivors of someone who committed suicide, or perhaps even died committing a crime, would be held responsible to pay for investigations, etc...after the fact. I can't imagine something like that happening in our society.

She will obviously not be entitled to any benefit for dying in the line of duty, but as angry as you may be at Lt G, I think it is still unfair to throw so much blame and responsibility at her feet.
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I think you misunderstood my post. His death doe not absolve his debts. He commited a crime when he radioed in the false police report. I liken it to the balloon boy incident. Weren't his parents responsible for some of the costs related yo the search? Legally, I believe juridictions are able to recuperate costs when people report false crimes and unnecessarily use enormous resources. This entire investigation was based on a false report.
 
TheDuchess said:
OJ Simpson still collects his pension and the Goldman's can't even touch it. Pensions are pretty tight. It is very difficult to take away someone's pension, a high bar to set.
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Rightly or wrongly, O.J. was acquitted. I doubt he would have been so entitled - had he been convicted. And, for what it's worth, there is a difference between an individual (like OJ) being entitled to their benefits and their surviving family members being entitled to the same. Like I said before. I disagree with your premise that the LT's family is automatically so entitled - regardless of anything the LT did. I believe that there are some things he could have done or might have done that would be detrimental to their entitlement.

He was a lawman and they are a lawman's family. They should know better than most people do, that there are legal and sometimes financial consequences to illegal actions (like fraud).
 
Some people may not realize how high our taxes are around these parts.
Our taxes more than double our mortgage and the requests for more never stop.
To learn public servants are stealing from us (we learn this frequently) gives us the right to complain.
 
Woe.be.gone said:
The monetary concern relates to the extra pay granted when killed in the line of duty if false. At least for me it does.
It isn't honorable to take yourself out while trying to look like a hero.
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I agree - they should not collect anything for line of duty death. But his standard death benefit, they should still collect.
 
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