WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #2

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I watch Forensic files often, and last night learned they can test the DNA in eye pigmentation to learn one's ancestry. There is no need to go to such lengths in Lyle's case as I am sure it is very expensive and he is buried, but I post this just for learning's sake. I just happened to find this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5055391

snipet
"But police officers are likely to be interested, too. Already, some officials are testing DNA left at crime scenes to get clues about what the culprit might look like. Tony Frudakis runs DNAPrint Genomics, a Florida-based company that uses gene markers associated with geographic ancestry to give police a general sense of whether someone might look more black or white. In one case, he says, such "DNAWitness" testing helped recently track down a serial killer in Louisiana.

"They had been targeting a Caucasian individual based on faulty eyewitness testimony," says Frudakis. "We showed that the samples found at the crime scene corresponded to someone who was of predominantly sub-Saharan African ancestry. So this sort of changed the profile of who they were looking for." He says his company has done this kind of testing for a wide variety of law-enforcement agencies, including those in places like New York, Chicago and Los Angeles."


The show last night was about this case, and although the 2 witnesses both said they saw a white man leaving the scene, the perp was determined to be a black man with partial Native American heritage. His DNA tested positive for the 5 women he was accused of raping and killing.


Scandi

ETA: To clarify, as I mis-stated a fact, in the strand of DNA that they find at a crime scene, like in sweat or semen, one little part of that strand is the eye color factor, and it is through analysis of this piece of the strand they can determine the ancestry. I think they can also do this from the skin color part of the strand, as a Dr doing research on cancer also determined this accidently when studying the color of fish.
 
hello grievous one,
welcome to the mystery. Before these new photos were made i also considered the middleeast possibility. His post-op pick looks like someone of that mixed heritage, until i looked at the side profile pic of him. We still don't know where the hazel eyes would come from either. I've taken the geneological approach, because i'm knowledgeable of that kinda research. Since i found that picture from 1905 of the man in the hat, i've sorta taken off like a banshee of this Hobucket family of the Quileute tribe. I've recently found pics of other tribal members, different last name, that also resemble our fellow, John Doe aka Lyle Stevik. Coldcaseman has the printed version of this new CGI photos and has given it to a woman who is close to tribe and maybe can help on the ground. So we're at a standstill for a few days until we hear back from her through our fearless leader ccm. I'm anxious as all crap. in the meantime, i'm not making anymore contact with people in that region, to back off and let the Detective find what he can first. I'd say, IMO,
by Wednesday, we should know whether she reached a dead end or not.
I'll just keep studying any Geneo records i can find on Quileute tribe and look for as many photos available to compare family traits. If you combine the inherent nature of indians to be very private about family affairs and the fact that we've got a suicide, it decreases the odds of getting a definite answer.
Tough work, but i keep plodding on, looking for new genius search engines that'll give me more than i've found thusfar. Any feedback or genius ideas will be greatly appreciated. Well....
back on my head
kk
 
Isn't that fascinating!! a couple weeks ago when i was studying the genetic angle on this case i called this lab in D.C. asked about this program. I first read about it when studying the Human Genome Project. I wanted to know if we could test Lyle's DNA to determine the approximate heritage. THere are three main catagories that can be established, Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid. In other words, white anglo european descent, african descent, and the Mongoloid covers Indians, Asians, Eskimos. Broad areas no doubt. Yes it would be expensive to do tests on Lyle's dna sample. Being buried isn't a prob because i think ccm would still have a saved dna sample. CCM? Anyway, it may in fact come down to that if this tribe in question decides the remains do belong to them. Who knows.

Little bunny foo foo, hoppin thru the websites,
kk
 
It is fascinating Wannabe. Thanks for the tip on what our bossman is up to. LOL I loved that reference to him.

BTW, I did get an email back from Letty, and she said "Sorry...I don't have any information to help you with. Letty I should have guessed as much, as she is an indian of the Quinault tribe I believe. Like I said before, indians are so proud and private it is difficult to make inroads like we need, asking for information. Thank goodness CCM has clout. And of course I want to know everything there is to know about his inquest.

Back to Genomics, in our case I don't think it would be of benefit. One constant I believe is that only white people have hazel eyes, as M and N don't have them. Since the color of Lyle's eyes tells us he has white heritage, the only way to see if he had middle eastern in his heritage - well, I don't know any, as they are white too I believe. We also can tell by looking at him he has to have some Mongoloid genes, so that's it, I think. White and Native American. LOL

He does have a most unusual chin I think. I have looked at it a lot, and think it must come from his white side. Most of the indian photos I have looked at have more pointed chins. But Lyle's is pretty much squared off with a slight recess in the center. What is interesting though, from all the indian pics I have seen, is that it seems indian chins go out straighter from the neck, or are more prominant as shown by a side view.

Prattle I guess, as it means absolutely nothing.

Scandi
 
Oh, you are so right Wannabe. I just read your post again. When it comes down to the nitty gritty, if it is determined Lyle has indian ancestry for sure the indians will be all over it and want him buried on their reservation.

My family has a strip of land on the Columbia river adjacent to where Celilo Falls once was. It was an airstrip used during construction of The Dalles Dam and only about 60' wide. One day a cop determined that kids were going down and digging on that land and finding relics they were trying to sell.

Well guess what. The Celilo indians went to court and stipulated this land was part of indian burial grounds, and it now is on the deed. It means we can not sell or even dig on our own land. My sister said some day we will just deed it over to the tribe as there is nothig we can do with it.

I wanted to go dig when I learned about it. :rolleyes: YaYa, although I have 5 precious agate arrowheads I found on the beach at Little Whale Cove on the Oregon Coast.


Scandi

ETA: Wannabe, do you know if CCM gave this lady a photo of the side view where Lyle looks like an Indian brave?
 
that's a very good point. I've noticed the chin too. The chin and nose were my focuses. i think both are from his caucasian side. Nice squared chin, and his nose is not 'beak' like. or large and flat as are many NW indians.
Thru studying the marriage records, few that there are, i've seen many anglo names married into the Hobuckets and other tribal members. Here's a list in case ya'll wanna play around with it.
Mowitch
Eastman
Cultee
Black
Snelling
Cooper (a little bell goes off for me on that)
Charles (another bell)
Pullen and
Simmons.

good luck
kk
 
I don't know for sure what he's gonna give her. I absolutely trust his judgement on that. If it were me, i'd give her the whole file. BUT, i'd caution showing the real photos to just anyone. Seeing a pic of a dead loved one could be devastating. She's an investigator herself, so she'll be careful on her approach i'm sure based on her knowledge of tribal behavior. If someone were to recognize the face from the digitally enhanced pics, then i would surmise it would be time to bring in the elders and sit down at a private location, sheriff's office maybe, with CCM and everyone, THEN interview the person who claims to know him and decide whether or not a positive ID can be made without ever having to show them the death photos. I'd avoid it if possible. It's gonna be emotional enough. Hopefully the ID can be made without further traumatising his family. But that's just me.
I told CCM i'm about ready to go for PI license. Take the courses, apprentice under a local PI (grunt work) etc. However, it'll be a tough sell to my dear hubby. I guess he thinks i'll get shot at all the time. yada yada bullets schmullets...
i digress
kk
 
:) I think CCM is feeling quite good right now, as I could see the grin widen on his face as he wrote "Hurry up and wait. Welcome to Investigations." here a few posts back.

Have you read the article about him in the paper dealing with his retirement and the 3 cases he had that were never solved, still close to his heart and that he works on, including Lye's? I'll repost the link if anyone wants.

The next case we tackle could be the girl found out in the woods by Montesano, I think that was it. I'll have to review.

Well, now that we have you here we don't want to lose you dear! LOL But I think your ambition is admirable and you would make a great PI.
Tenacity is one of your virtues, and in the investigation biz it is always an attribute. Wish I was in my mid twenties again, hmmmm


Scandi
 
Yes please post that article again so i don't have to scroll to find it.
Also what's this Montesano case? is there already a thread on it?
also, me thinks, the quote from CMM was sorta an inside joke since i told him i wanted to pursue the PI thing. I took it as a gentle reminder not to be too impatient. It's funny he said that right after i emailed Steve Huff and told him now we, hurry up and wait. Great minds think alike.
Montesano?
kk
 
wannabesleuthkk said:
Yes please post that article again so i don't have to scroll to find it.
Also what's this Montesano case? is there already a thread on it?
also, me thinks, the quote from CMM was sorta an inside joke since i told him i wanted to pursue the PI thing. I took it as a gentle reminder not to be too impatient. It's funny he said that right after i emailed Steve Huff and told him now we, hurry up and wait. Great minds think alike.
Montesano?
kk
I've learned the hard way, to not get over anxious when you are trying to identify someone. Too many times in the past, I would come upon a possible name for one of my unidentified persons. Things would begin to fall into place, and I would get excited. When it would turn out that a missing person wasn't my unidentified, I would be devistated. I learned to be sceptical and take my time. Hurry up and wait. My unidentified lady is a murder victim found in the woods in 1988. I know if I could identify her, I will probably know who killed her. I call her my girlfriend, and my wife understands.
 
So what's this girlfriend all about??
Is it on a thread here already?
See, ya'll got me goin now. Do tell.
Give me something to ponder this weekend since I have to hurry up and wait for what very well may be a dead end. However, i'm not buyin that.
Think positive!!
kk
 
wannabesleuthkk said:
Yes please post that article again so i don't have to scroll to find it.
Also what's this Montesano case? is there already a thread on it?
also, me thinks, the quote from CMM was sorta an inside joke since i told him i wanted to pursue the PI thing. I took it as a gentle reminder not to be too impatient. It's funny he said that right after i emailed Steve Huff and told him now we, hurry up and wait. Great minds think alike.
Montesano?
kk
You can go to thedailyworld.com, in the archives section type youmans. It was printed on 02-19-06, and has info on the murder victim in the woods. You can also go to theseattletimes.com, and in the archives section type youmans dna. That also has info on my cold cases that was printed on 02-09-06. I'd like to see what the group could come up with on my "girlfriends" case.
 
I've been thinking of her lately, wondering what evidence was found, or circumstances at hand in her death. Another thread of course, so will wait. The sailor, you would have to know what boats or ships had been in the area in the right time frame to him being washed up, unless it is possible to trace him as a person, and I thought he was skelatonized.

Guess where I'm going on this lazy Saturday afternoon!



Scandi
 
scandi said:
I've been thinking of her lately, wondering what evidence was found, or circumstances at hand in her death. Another thread of course, so will wait. The sailor, you would have to know what boats or ships had been in the area in the right time frame to him being washed up, unless it is possible to trace him as a person, and I thought he was skelatonized.

Guess where I'm going on this lazy Saturday afternoon!



Scandi
You can see a clay reconstruction of the lady on Doenetwork, case# 330UFWA.
 
coldcaseman said:
You can see a clay reconstruction of the lady on Doenetwork, case# 330UFWA.
You mentioned in the February 18th, 2006 article from The Daily World that you were working with an artist to come up with a new sketch of the woman- how has that come through?
 
outofthedark said:
You mentioned in the February 18th, 2006 article from The Daily World that you were working with an artist to come up with a new sketch of the woman- how has that come through?
The artist was only able to create a profile drawing of the woman, due to the fact that only half her skull was recovered. The clay bust is much more revealing (I think). The Sheriffs Dept. just received the drawing a month ago and haven't sent it to any of the missing person sites she is on yet.
 
1) Where could we see this profile pic ccm?
2) Can only the sherrif's dept deliver the drawing for the NCMA to update that file on their site?
3) I read the article, happy belated b'day ccm.
4) I've been interrupted in my work and just came back. I've got 9 windows open and can't remember where iwas. I'll organize myself and get back later.
I found some obits online of a few of this and nearby 'clans' and i need to read thru those. Their helpful IDing surviving relat. The pic i've put below is only one of interest because it's beautiful and inspiring. Hope you enjoy.
Cya,
kk
http://olympiccoast.noaa.gov/bigpic/native6_BodyPic.html

:crazy:
 
The Sheriffs Dept. just received the drawing a month ago and haven't sent it to any of the missing person sites she is on yet.
Good idea- you never know when you need to change something or update it
 
wannabesleuthkk said:
1) Where could we see this profile pic ccm?
2) Can only the sherrif's dept deliver the drawing for the NCMA to update that file on their site?
3) I read the article, happy belated b'day ccm.
4) I've been interrupted in my work and just came back. I've got 9 windows open and can't remember where iwas. I'll organize myself and get back later.
I found some obits online of a few of this and nearby 'clans' and i need to read thru those. Their helpful IDing surviving relat. The pic i've put below is only one of interest because it's beautiful and inspiring. Hope you enjoy.
Cya,
kk
http://olympiccoast.noaa.gov/bigpic/native6_BodyPic.html

:crazy:
It may have already been sent in to Doenetwork. I'll check Mon. Law Enforcement submits cases, photos, etc. to the site.
 
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