WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #2

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They combed it back! ;) They also gave him a bit of an earlobe on each side and opened up that sleepy looking eye.

I am partial to his side view photo as it shows so much about him. I just envision a warrior on a painted pony with a braid and an eagle feather in his hair! Well, I guess the front view pic does that too.

Scandi
 
evening all,
bad news. I sat thru Employee of the Month.. He said he wished we'd seen open season also. wait for the DVD really.

Anyway, Doc, i thought of the fasting angle before. a little tidbit to add to the list of stuff to google tonight for me.

OOD, I think they did the best they could with the CGI as far as the hairline. If SOMEBODY woulda combed his hair for his post pics i think it would sleek back nice and full and have a gentle flow to it as opposed to the chopped army cut look. army cut. hmmm
anyway, i like to imagine it like antonio banderas! kinda sexy.
the CGI makes him look nerdy. doesn't fit unless there is a link between what happened in the book and our Lyle. more "fem" than macho.
p.s. saw the trailer for the 3rd install, "the Escape Clause"
wait for the DVD
back in a few guys
kk
 
That's funny you said 'fem' Wannabe. I've always wondered what his disposition was in that way. He looks somewhat fragile and delicate, but I always attributed that to his being so thin. And we'll never know because it is hard to tell looking at someone who is deceased. He certainly dressed like a manly guy.

When I picture him walking up and down that street I picture a tall guy with BIG clothes which makes his hands and head look smaller. Someone would have noticed him if he had been out of his room much. And as I remember his feet or shoe size was shorter than I would expect for a guy over 6'. On a horse he would have been great!

Scandi ;)
 
I wish the newer reconstructions would stick with the original look and hair he had- he looks even more unrecognizable now. If he didn't have earlobes to begin with, why did the photos give him some?? What they should have done was leave his hair and ears alone, but touch his face up a little to make him a little more lifelike. If Lyle could talk, I wonder what he would say about his "new" appearance. However, they could have made his hair different colors to see if he had dyed it in the past because he could be familar to someone that way and then dyed back to black later in his life. I have done that before where I dyed my brown hair blonde once and then dyed it back to brown because I liked it better. I spray dye my hair black sometimes though :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents:
 
miss scandi, you tickle me. First it was the indian nose, then you were off on the earlobes, now it's his shoe size!
When i re-read your last line my first thot was " heck he coulda been good on a counter top too" my twisted sense of humor rearing it's cute little head.
Seems you have a one track mind, lady.
but i love it.
I feel like i've got 'writer's block on this stuff for now tho. Need to go clear the cobwebs. toss me any ideas to jump start my brain again. I think that movie "dumbed me down"
kk
 
Whoa! That would be a bit of a wild ride. LOL See, I paint people, so I'm always looking at things like proportion, shape, light as in the eyes. When you put light into an eye it suddenly pops off the paper because suddenly it is looking somewhere and not flat. And when I Sleuth, I try to see what I have read, or put it into a real frame to get perspective. I did that with Elma down in that Chantrelle landscape I know so well from the Coast. Everyone does their own thing.

PS: Actually I almost fainted when I tweaked that nose that turned out to be hard. I wasn't expecting that at all! :p


Scandi
 
I'm an amateur artist in my spare time- I somewhat created a cartoon character named "Little Man" whose appearance I sorta based off of Lyle- just the hair mostly though
 
outofthedark said:
I wish the newer reconstructions would stick with the original look and hair he had- he looks even more unrecognizable now. If he didn't have earlobes to begin with, why did the photos give him some?? What they should have done was leave his hair and ears alone, but touch his face up a little to make him a little more lifelike. If Lyle could talk, I wonder what he would say about his "new" appearance. However, they could have made his hair different colors to see if he had dyed it in the past because he could be familar to someone that way and then dyed back to black later in his life. :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents:
I did the digital reconstruction.

The post mortem photos were not his "original look and hair" because they'd peeled his scalp forward and opened his skull for the autopsy. You can tell this from the folds that are visable on his forehead. When he was seen alive, Lyle's hair was worn in a comb-back, and was in that style when CCM found him. That's why I depicted it as a comb back. Course hair doesnt lay flat against the head when combed back either, it stands up a little.

His ear lobes are also exactly how they are in the autopsy photos. I did not add anything to them.

I would not change any identifying feature or bone structure.

I cleaned up incision marks, smoothed his forehead-folds, replaced the grey sections of skin, and fixed the hair lines on the sides which had moved with the skin.
The clothes that I depict him wearing are made to match the police report and the reference photos from the hotel room. I actually sampled the colors of the plad shirt off of a photo, and had CCM check them. The report listed a grey tshirt, and I put one of those on him in the reconstruction.

I had to do extensive paintwork to open his eyes, but everything was done with constant reference to the photos, to match the eyelid line and shape and size of the orbital lobe and eye ball. The eye color comes from the portion of the iris that is visable in the photos. I refocused his eyes to get rid of the disturbing "dead-gaze."

I also fixed his dried out lips and opened his mouth slightly, again, preserving the shape of the lips and mouth, yet making him look more alive. People's lips change shape and thickness slightly as they open their mouth or smile. Also, since Lyle had significantly nice teeth, I doubted that he would keep his lips tightly pursed. I was also extremely careful to not impose any personality on him, which is the goal of a reconsturction.

I "warmed up" his skintone and lips for color correction to get rid of the excess yellow. Peoples' skin naturally has a yellow base tone, which, when alive, is normally offset by the red of blood.

I removed a "rash" on his neck, chin, left side of his nose, and forehead, which was probably caused by friction against the belt that he hung himself from. It was too linear to be a skin condition.

CCM said that there was no evidence that he'd colored his hair, so no change was made for that.

Since it was aparent that he'd lost a good deal of weight in the recent past, I made a second version with an additional 40 lbs. The weight is reflected in his neck, cheeks, jowels and undereyes, it leaves his bone structure intact.

I put him against an vague "nature-like" background because he was wearing Timberland boots, Levis, and a plad shirt. Also, the sugegstions of outdoors and color of trees makes the photo more "alive" than a flatly colored background.

The comment was also made that he now looked "nerdy" in the reconstruction. Remember, we're talking about a 6'2" to 6'4", 140lb man who read Joyce Carol Oates novels, had callus-free hands, and no tan lines. This was not an Indian Warrior or a jock.

davidmm
 
First, I'm slow, I'm tired and i just put 2and2 together.
second, I think your work was excellent. Forgive me if my lack of knowledge in your field led me to rattle on about things i know nothing about.
Miss Scandi and i differ on what a 'manly man' looks like. I am however interested in reading the JCO book. I picked up another one of hers that was on the shelf titled "I am noone you know" For obvious reasons i was compelled to buy it wondering how much of her books Lyle may have read. I have nothing to report however because it's still sitting on my dresser unopened. Will try soon.

Would like to get ahold of the lady with the Uof WA anthropology dept still.
someone familiar with the facial traits of different tribes of the region.
(the same for my other project. see - Elma Woods, Gray's Harbor jane doe)
(Elma is probably asian but not sure from where. Need more links.)

As i stated before, i've got a sort of "sleuthers block" on this case. More sleep would help. for now i'll hang out with Elma and try to learn her story.
I'm gonna be outa touch for most of next week. Even tho i'll be laying on the beach in Islamorada, Lyle and Elma will be on my mind daily.

I need someone to volunteer to email me off and on with summary updates.
Goin' cold turkey on this is gonna be tough.
ta ta
David, please stick around. Your presence is appreciated.
kk
 
wannabesleuthkk said:
First, I'm slow, I'm tired and i just put 2and2 together.
second, I think your work was excellent. Forgive me if my lack of knowledge in your field led me to rattle on about things i know nothing about.
Miss Scandi and i differ on what a 'manly man' looks like.
David, please stick around. Your presence is appreciated.
kk
No need to appologize! No offsense taken! I appreciate input on my work! I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions, like that I'd changed his ears, and explain why I made some asthetic choices, etc.

This is a fascinating site. I'll certianly be hanging around!
:woohoo:

I didnt see this topic listed yet, but, wow... it deserves to be discussed...
Anyone read about the mysterout drownings in the midwest? Pretty spooky.
http://www.vanceholmes.com/court/trial_missing.html


Davidmm
 
efxdavid said:
I did the digital reconstruction.

The post mortem photos were not his "original look and hair" because they'd peeled his scalp forward and opened his skull for the autopsy. You can tell this from the folds that are visable on his forehead. When he was seen alive, Lyle's hair was worn in a comb-back, and was in that style when CCM found him. That's why I depicted it as a comb back. Course hair doesnt lay flat against the head when combed back either, it stands up a little.

His ear lobes are also exactly how they are in the autopsy photos. I did not add anything to them.

I would not change any identifying feature or bone structure.

I cleaned up incision marks, smoothed his forehead-folds, replaced the grey sections of skin, and fixed the hair lines on the sides which had moved with the skin.
The clothes that I depict him wearing are made to match the police report and the reference photos from the hotel room. I actually sampled the colors of the plad shirt off of a photo, and had CCM check them. The report listed a grey tshirt, and I put one of those on him in the reconstruction.

I had to do extensive paintwork to open his eyes, but everything was done with constant reference to the photos, to match the eyelid line and shape and size of the orbital lobe and eye ball. The eye color comes from the portion of the iris that is visable in the photos. I refocused his eyes to get rid of the disturbing "dead-gaze."

I also fixed his dried out lips and opened his mouth slightly, again, preserving the shape of the lips and mouth, yet making him look more alive. People's lips change shape and thickness slightly as they open their mouth or smile. Also, since Lyle had significantly nice teeth, I doubted that he would keep his lips tightly pursed. I was also extremely careful to not impose any personality on him, which is the goal of a reconsturction.

I "warmed up" his skintone and lips for color correction to get rid of the excess yellow. Peoples' skin naturally has a yellow base tone, which, when alive, is normally offset by the red of blood.

I removed a "rash" on his neck, chin, left side of his nose, and forehead, which was probably caused by friction against the belt that he hung himself from. It was too linear to be a skin condition.

CCM said that there was no evidence that he'd colored his hair, so no change was made for that.

Since it was aparent that he'd lost a good deal of weight in the recent past, I made a second version with an additional 40 lbs. The weight is reflected in his neck, cheeks, jowels and undereyes, it leaves his bone structure intact.

I put him against an vague "nature-like" background because he was wearing Timberland boots, Levis, and a plad shirt. Also, the sugegstions of outdoors and color of trees makes the photo more "alive" than a flatly colored background.

The comment was also made that he now looked "nerdy" in the reconstruction. Remember, we're talking about a 6'2" to 6'4", 140lb man who read Joyce Carol Oates novels, had callus-free hands, and no tan lines. This was not an Indian Warrior or a jock.

davidmm
Sorry about what I said- I don't have much knowledge about how he looked before his autopsy and when he was alive for 2.5 days, I do think your work on the pictures was nice though- I'm mostly used to the sketch that was circulated of him at the time of his death

Is it me or does Lyle now bear a resemblance to this guy?: http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/720umsk.html
 
efxdavid said:
The comment was also made that he now looked "nerdy" in the reconstruction. Remember, we're talking about a 6'2" to 6'4", 140lb man who read Joyce Carol Oates novels, had callus-free hands, and no tan lines. This was not an Indian Warrior or a jock.



:laugh: that's hilarious! (yet so true!)

Excellent work Davidmm. It's really interesting to read your thought processes as you worked your way through the reconstruction. You paid such great attention to every detail that we know about "Lyle." It's a great likeness, I'm sure, and I'm so glad that Doenetwork replaced the drawing with the two reconstructions. Thanks for your help - this may be just what Lyle needs to help someone recognize him!
 
Why Efxdavid, it certainly is nice to meet you, and I do respect you for this talent you have. It is an art all of its own.

I thought you did a great job making him more lifelike and normal appearing. Have you seen the side view picture of Lyle? He was striking I think. Have you ever seen such perfect lips from a side view? lol

I often thought his outfit didn't match what I saw in his face and what I've learned about him. Being dead, the only expression I could see was utter despondancy. Sadness. And a lot of that is from his eyelids being so droopy, and maybe they were like that in real life, like Robert Mitchums. He had big sleepy looking eyes always, I think.

I'd have to look at his hands, but his delicate look, being so meticulous about his teeth and grooming makes me think he dressed like he did to appear as manly as he could. And like CCM said, it could be that he identified with the Lyle in the book, and the heart of the issue in the story, and his feeling out of cinque with who he was or had become sexually. He was what I would call a pretty boy. Strikingly handsome, as many malotes or mixed race people are. Wow, I hate generalizations. :bang:

Welcome to Websleuths, and it is great to have you here. BTW, did you get your Halloween scare? Baa Haa Haa Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :eek:


Scandi
 
I've spent some time reviewing the doe network, and I'm wondering if they ever take unidentified people out of their lineup because they have been ID'ed? Or is it very seldom that this happens?

Scandi
 
scandi said:
They combed it back! ;) They also gave him a bit of an earlobe on each side and opened up that sleepy looking eye.

I am partial to his side view photo as it shows so much about him. I just envision a warrior on a painted pony with a braid and an eagle feather in his hair! Well, I guess the front view pic does that too.

Scandi


I like his profile picture, too, because you can really see the bone structure of his cheeks, jaw and nose.
 
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/108666_missingday18.shtml

Scandi this article i found yesterday reveals a serious problem in one area. Imagine how hard it is to update (keep up) with a National Database. Maybe one day there'll be more volunteers focused on that area. Helping to coordinate all the databases. Read all ten seg inthis article when you have time. If it's happening in that county....

kk
 
OoD, what a twist! The John Doe from Canada does resemble Lyle alot. My brain cells aren't firing right so it was like i was seeing Lyle in two places in time. Like the same story happening in two different places in time.
So then my silly brain says, HEY that'd be a great movie. A guy whose story shows him living the last six months of his life over and over. He kills himself only to come back (reincarnate) and have to experience it again until he comes across that one person that'll save him. Altering history forever.
or a book! yeh!Ok i'll stop. but i got dibs.
I remember seeing the canadien, because i remember that rose. That rose seemed to me the secret key to unlock the mystery. i'll go check that again later.

oh if any of you are brave, go google "asian faces photos"
I litterally blushed at the options available. never had the nerve to actually check out any of "adult" material. I use the term losely.

back ina while
kk
 
efxdavid said:
I did the digital reconstruction.

The post mortem photos were not his "original look and hair" because they'd peeled his scalp forward and opened his skull for the autopsy. You can tell this from the folds that are visable on his forehead. When he was seen alive, Lyle's hair was worn in a comb-back, and was in that style when CCM found him. That's why I depicted it as a comb back. Course hair doesnt lay flat against the head when combed back either, it stands up a little.

His ear lobes are also exactly how they are in the autopsy photos. I did not add anything to them.

I would not change any identifying feature or bone structure.

I cleaned up incision marks, smoothed his forehead-folds, replaced the grey sections of skin, and fixed the hair lines on the sides which had moved with the skin.
The clothes that I depict him wearing are made to match the police report and the reference photos from the hotel room. I actually sampled the colors of the plad shirt off of a photo, and had CCM check them. The report listed a grey tshirt, and I put one of those on him in the reconstruction.

I had to do extensive paintwork to open his eyes, but everything was done with constant reference to the photos, to match the eyelid line and shape and size of the orbital lobe and eye ball. The eye color comes from the portion of the iris that is visable in the photos. I refocused his eyes to get rid of the disturbing "dead-gaze."

I also fixed his dried out lips and opened his mouth slightly, again, preserving the shape of the lips and mouth, yet making him look more alive. People's lips change shape and thickness slightly as they open their mouth or smile. Also, since Lyle had significantly nice teeth, I doubted that he would keep his lips tightly pursed. I was also extremely careful to not impose any personality on him, which is the goal of a reconsturction.

I "warmed up" his skintone and lips for color correction to get rid of the excess yellow. Peoples' skin naturally has a yellow base tone, which, when alive, is normally offset by the red of blood.

I removed a "rash" on his neck, chin, left side of his nose, and forehead, which was probably caused by friction against the belt that he hung himself from. It was too linear to be a skin condition.

CCM said that there was no evidence that he'd colored his hair, so no change was made for that.

Since it was aparent that he'd lost a good deal of weight in the recent past, I made a second version with an additional 40 lbs. The weight is reflected in his neck, cheeks, jowels and undereyes, it leaves his bone structure intact.

I put him against an vague "nature-like" background because he was wearing Timberland boots, Levis, and a plad shirt. Also, the sugegstions of outdoors and color of trees makes the photo more "alive" than a flatly colored background.

The comment was also made that he now looked "nerdy" in the reconstruction. Remember, we're talking about a 6'2" to 6'4", 140lb man who read Joyce Carol Oates novels, had callus-free hands, and no tan lines. This was not an Indian Warrior or a jock.

davidmm


You did a good job on the new reconstruction photos. The way you distributed his weight seems consistent with Lyle's heighth and bone structure. I hope that if you have time, you would tackle Lyle's profile photo because he has a very distinct jaw, nose and cheeks bones.

You mentioned the no tan lines (was my question to ccm), have you seen a full length post mortem photo of Lyle? You seem very knowledgeable about skin tones, what would be your guess as to nationality of Lyle? Do you have any thoughts at to why a young man wouldn't have tan lines on at least his forearms and neck at the end of summer?

Edited to add: I thought Lyle looked too pale in his first death photo (the one on the first poster), but you're right, they didn't have the warmer tones from his blood pumping. Maybe he wasn't near as pale as I thought. Is it possible to deepen that skin tone without making him look "tanned"?
 
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