Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

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I just can't see how a human body was cremated to that point and how the bones were found in different places. It's illogical.
IMO JMO and all of that

It certainly is. This is a very gross comparison but think about cooking a bone-in piece of meat - like a rib roast. How long and at what temperature would you have to have it to completely annaliate all skin and flesh and leave only bones - not complete bones mind you but just little fragments, little pieces of bone. Think about an entire human skeleton - the big thigh bones, the long femur, etc. Now they are all reduced to fragments that fit in the palm of your hand? It makes NO SENSE!

You cannot tell me you could throw a human body on a man-made outside fire with regular wood, scraps of yard trash, etc. and it would disintegrate and the bones would break apart. Why was no expert used to exploit this very questionable fact?
 
It certainly is. This is a very gross comparison but think about cooking a bone-in piece of meat - like a rib roast. How long and at what temperature would you have to have it to completely annaliate all skin and flesh and leave only bones - not complete bones mind you but just little fragments, little pieces of bone. Think about an entire human skeleton - the big thigh bones, the long femur, etc. Now they are all reduced to fragments that fit in the palm of your hand? It makes NO SENSE!

You cannot tell me you could throw a human body on a man-made outside fire with regular wood, scraps of yard trash, etc. and it would disintegrate and the bones would break apart. Why was no expert used to exploit this very questionable fact?

I wondered that as well. In looking for what is not there.

Also .22 shots are kinda known for not exiting . Not to say it didn't but if she wasn't shot in the garage . How are we supposed to buy that's where they found the bullet?
As you said it makes no sense.
 
So many items of "evidence" were not found until later on, such as the spent bullet casing and the key, something stinks to high heaven.
I do not like to subscribe to conspiracy theories at all, but these times are suggesting that such things are occurring.
It is not paranoia if it is based in fact, fellow WS'ers.
jmo and hoping true justice will reign once again in our country
 
Has anyone else read that 2 of the jurors were related to people in the Sheriff's department? How much worse can it get? Here is from a news article published at the beginning of the trial.

"Perhaps more to the point for Avery, the panel selected Friday includes a man whose son works for the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department and a man whose wife works for the Manitowoc County clerk of courts office. Avery, 44, is charged with killing 25-year-old photographer Teresa Halbach.

Those connections are significant because Avery claims that a vial of his blood was left unsecured in the clerk's office and that sheriff's deputies used it to plant his blood inside Halbach's vehicle."

Remember the excused juror state that 3 of the jurors had their minds made up and would not deliberate?
 
After reading various documents and watching the documentary, I do not believe that Steven Avery killed Teresa. Looking at the satellite image of the roads leading to the salvage yard, anyone could have driven in from the quarry area and parked it in the back area, and they would have never known because their homes are on the far side of the salvage yard. Knowing that Colborn called in the plates days prior to the actual finding of the car, and not reporting it, make it really hard for me to say that SA killed her. No blood in his house, no blood in the yard, no blood in the garage, bones found in two different locations, one being off of the property, it just does not add up. AC called in plates on the third, gives way too much time for things to be planted on the vehicle.

I am in the minority when I say I do not think anyone that lived at the salvage yard killed her, again there is really no evidence pointing to this.

In my opinion someone she knew, knew her schedule that day, most likely whoever called her 8 times that morning, and whoever called her at 2:41 ( I have not seen any documentation on who that was). I think she agreed to meet up with whoever it was, and things that just did not go as she thought it would. I really think it was someone she knew and trusted that hurt her. Most likely someone the public or her family did not really know about. The police just steered the case towards Avery because they really did not have a suspect, only the last place they knew she was at.

My Opinion Only
 
Has anyone else read that 2 of the jurors were related to people in the Sheriff's department? How much worse can it get? Here is from a news article published at the beginning of the trial.

"Perhaps more to the point for Avery, the panel selected Friday includes a man whose son works for the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department and a man whose wife works for the Manitowoc County clerk of courts office. Avery, 44, is charged with killing 25-year-old photographer Teresa Halbach.

Those connections are significant because Avery claims that a vial of his blood was left unsecured in the clerk's office and that sheriff's deputies used it to plant his blood inside Halbach's vehicle."

Remember the excused juror state that 3 of the jurors had their minds made up and would not deliberate?

Crap, I forgot that part. Also significant because they would not believe their ' department' was dirty enough to frame or if they did believe or know they were, they would not want that ' image' to go out so would want to convict . Thanks for this reminder.
 
Okay this is maddening. I've only seen the first one so far but I knew there was some serious hink going on. I spent today reading most of the first thread and right now I'm watching this interview with Brenden [video=youtube;7t_1rOjtxpA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t_1rOjtxpA[/video] from March 2006. This kid changes his story as often as he blinks & picks at his hands. He actually sounds like he's making it up as he goes along.

I just don't know what to believe at this point.
 
It certainly is. This is a very gross comparison but think about cooking a bone-in piece of meat - like a rib roast. How long and at what temperature would you have to have it to completely annaliate all skin and flesh and leave only bones - not complete bones mind you but just little fragments, little pieces of bone. Think about an entire human skeleton - the big thigh bones, the long femur, etc. Now they are all reduced to fragments that fit in the palm of your hand? It makes NO SENSE!

You cannot tell me you could throw a human body on a man-made outside fire with regular wood, scraps of yard trash, etc. and it would disintegrate and the bones would break apart. Why was no expert used to exploit this very questionable fact?

You might like to read these links I found them very interesting and informative.

http://disinfo.com/2009/05/exactly-how-does-the-human-body-burn/
http://www.officer.com/article/10250502/burning-evidence
 
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/...rer-netflix-series-b99643080z1-363828481.html
The link above was somewhat informative and there was nothing that I didn't know already however the links are definitely interesting. Something that stood out, and this was never mentioned in the documentary was Teresa Halbach's younger sister said Teresa had a pair of Daisy Fuentes jeans that Teresa's younger sister would tease her about, saying they were 'mom' jeans, and further in the article, it says that a rivet from a pair of Daisy Fuentes jeans had been found. I cannot remember which link it was under but if you read through them, you will find it. This case is mind boggling. I have a question, and perhaps it has already been answered, but why didn't the evidence Manitowoc co.investigators found on the Avery property get thrown out if they were not suppose to assist in the investigation? Why were they even allowed on the scene? It truly seemed like the judge in both cases just wanted to get both trials over with.
 
Okay, I have just begun watching this series (just started episode 5). Here is my take, at this point. My opinion could, of course, change, by the time I'm finished. Plus, I really want to read the court docs and forensic docs, if avail. So, again, this is just a first pass free flow of thoughts.

1) I think they should vacate Brendan Dassey's conviction. For a number of reasons, as follows and in no particular order.

a) "interviewing" him without his parents' knowledge, or an attorney present.
b) the leading questions were appalling and should never have been admitted at trial.
c) the defense investigator coercing him into not only signing a confession but directing him on what to say and draw, and them telling him to call his mother and confess, knowing full well his call would be recorded. And all this occurring, without his atty present. An atty, who, btw, thought he was guilty. imnsho, that atty should be disbarred and the investigator's license yanked. That debacle had inadequate defense written all over it.

All things considered, I think an egregious injustice was done wrt Brendan. I also think that the LEOs/DA threw him under the bus, just so they could convict Avery. And that, imnsho, is the most glaring thing in this whole mess.​

2) There is no question in my mind that evidence was planted (i.e., keys, shell casing, Haibach's vehicle, and AV's blood). Esp considering that the same LEOs who were named in a lawsuit, were the one's who had full access to SA's property.

3) Afaics, Haibach was obviously not killed in SA's house... even if he was her killer.

4) The quite obvious harassment of SA's gf was weird. Not sure what that bit was about.​

Now, as for Avery? While I think they may have railroaded him, I am skeptical LEOs killed Haibach. If he is, as he claims, innocent, I think they targeted him for a few possible reasons, to include but not limited to that he was allegedly the last person who saw her alive (<= this is the big one), the pending lawsuit, the evidence of who murdered her was slim to none and they had to pin it on someone so townspeople could sleep at night, and/or that the Avery family were outsiders and hated in a close-knit town, so pinning it on him, made sense.

That said, I am admittedly on the fence about SA's innocence. Why?

In, either episode 2 (or 3 or 4, sorry, not sure which), there is a call between he and his mother. This is after his arrest. His behavior, or rather, his voice tone raised all sorts of red flags. He was extremely demanding and petulant. That, of course, doesn't make him guilty. However, the guy spent 18 years in prison as an innocent, and was facing the potential of going back? I expected to hear fear. Not the demanding and totally entitled tone I heard during that call. That call came across like he was brow-beating his mom.

His parent's demeanors were interesting as well. They seemed to initially think he was guilty. Or rather, they came across as skeptical. The mother also came across as brow-beaten. Even with him behind bars. I don't know how to really describe it but it is just, I don't know. Odd.

Then, there's the past deeds. Pouring gasoline on a cat and throwing it into the fire? It's one thing to light bugs on fire with a magnifying glass when you're like, 10. Animal torture (yes, I realize, bugs are animals, too, but I'm referring to warm blooded animals), esp the kind of animals that are considered pets by many? The psychology of a person who would do that takes it to another level, completely (Macdonald's discredited triad theory, notwithstanding).

So, if SA is guilty? I highly, highly, doubt it went down as LE claimed. Esp in light of the fact that their leading questions drew out a story from a mentally challenged 16 year old kid, so they had to stick with that version. At the very least, we know she was shot. Since her remains were burned, there was no way to prove the other allegations (i.e., rape, torture, etcetera). Esp in light of the extremely small window of time between his gf's two calls from jail. With this in mind, I think it is possible there was an altercation, and he lost his temper. Then, once he realized what he had done, he tried to cover it up by burning her body. <= this last bit still seems implausible when I re-read it...

Imho, the more likely scenario is that she was murdered by someone else. I think LE found Haibach's vehicle elsewhere, and probably her remains, too. Which is why they called in the plate. The problem was, it was out in the middle of nowhere, so the only "tie" to her killer was that AV was allegedly the last person who saw her alive. And since they were sure he was the killer, they needed a stronger tie-in. Thus the planting of evidence and coercion of Brendan.

Anyway, sorry this turned out to be so long. This is my take away, atm. Now, back to watching the rest of this series. Yes, a marathon viewing!
 
I agree with you. As I was reading your post and thinking about Steven Avery versus the Sheriff Department, it makes total sense why they would frame him with DNA.

If we think about the previous case, Steven Avery was sent to prison for a crime he did not do, because of a false identification, based on lies from the Sheriffs department. In 1995 they could have exonerated this man, but instead they did nothing, and let him sit in prison. So we know at this point they are trying to save face, and not wanting to embarrass the department they cover it up at the expense of this mans life. How low can you get, to let another human suffer, and let the real criminal roam free to hurt other people.

When he is finally released from prison, their secret is let out the bag, and now everything is in jeopardy. Liars will be exposed, people might lose their jobs, lawsuit for 36 million dollars, and NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT for the department. So I would bet my last dollar the department was told to find ANYTHING they could on Avery, if he sneezed wrong or looked at someone wrong, they would know about it. Do you really think they had no one watching him for a slip up? I am positive someone was driving by his residence quit frequently, looking and watching.

Then MAGICALLY a young girl who was last seen with Avery goes missing. This would be exactly what the department needs to save face, and look like heroes again if they can catch him this time. They knew to get him in prison they would need DNA, the same thing that freed him from jail. Can't dispute DNA, right? They used his DNA to make sure he went to prison. Everyone in the judicial department knew Avery had embarrassed the sheriffs department. Everyone played their part, right down to the judge.

This was not just a everyday setup, this was PERSONAL.

Sorry so long, just thoughts come and I have to get them out :) My opinion only
 
Wow 200,000 people signed a petition to release SA after people watch the Making a Murderer!!

What about Brendan?
 
Just when I feel I have let it go and can stop thinking about this for a minute.. no.

The thing (out of everything) that is sticking to me the most and I can't shake..

Steven did a *67..twice.

This guy I have down as a simple country guy.. somehow he knows how to *67?

I can't get past this.

He's not calculated.. he's genuine. *67? 2 times?

I saw an interview with Strang.. he said 'after the first go round, he tries to stay a private guy'.

Maybe?

This is the one stupid thing keeping me up at night.
 
Just when I feel I have let it go and can stop thinking about this for a minute.. no.

The thing (out of everything) that is sticking to me the most and I can't shake..

Steven did a *67..twice.

This guy I have down as a simple country guy.. somehow he knows how to *67?

I can't get past this.

He's not calculated.. he's genuine. *67? 2 times?

I saw an interview with Strang.. he said 'after the first go round, he tries to stay a private guy'.

Maybe?

This is the one stupid thing keeping me up at night.

I personally don't know what to make of them 2 phone calls, or the one at 4.35 without the number hidden
 
You know who I really liked was Peter? Batez who was a Lieutenant Deputy Sheriff and was a investigator for SA attorneys.
 
After reading through this thread ,I feel a little shocked . Personally a felt like the documentary was filled with propaganda . It was 10 hours of manipulation , with waaaay to many important facts and details left out ....no excuse for that.
I'm surprised at some of the theories I've seen also ..
I believe Brendan should not of been convicted .
I have serious doubts about Averys innocence ....and feel in the minority about that .
I have seen so many people being cast under suspicion ..it comes across like The Averys are the only "good honest people" in this town .
I believe when people get over the great editing , production and music in this documentary and are just left with the cold hard facts , we'll see clearer and less emotion driven theories .moo

What are you "shocked" about? How strange.

Every piece of evidence against Steven was massively tainted.

This isn't an emotional response....that's a factual one. Nothing to do with music or "propaganda".

There is really no need to be so sneery just because some other people have a different opinion to you.
 
Just when I feel I have let it go and can stop thinking about this for a minute.. no.

The thing (out of everything) that is sticking to me the most and I can't shake..

Steven did a *67..twice.

This guy I have down as a simple country guy.. somehow he knows how to *67?

I can't get past this.

He's not calculated.. he's genuine. *67? 2 times?

I saw an interview with Strang.. he said 'after the first go round, he tries to stay a private guy'.

Maybe?

This is the one stupid thing keeping me up at night.

Sounds like a tip he picked up while incarcerated. Not that the feature would have been available to him as an inmate, but prison does provide quite an education. No man walks out of prison after that many years as a "simple country guy".
 
I personally don't know what to make of them 2 phone calls, or the one at 4.35 without the number hidden

The 4:35 call would make sense if SA came back out of his house well after they had finished taking care of the auto-trader business and saw the RAV4 still sitting there with TH nowhere to be found.

...but I'm not sure if SA said that was the case. I would think he'd have told that to the cops when interviewed.

He likely wouldn't mention it to anyone at the time (e.g. phone call from jail/fiancee an hour later) if the RAV4 was moved by someone shortly thereafter.
 
Could it have been ONLY him? I'm in NO way saying he could NOT have done it. I'm saying did/could anyone else have the opportunity to get their hands on his phone? Someone else that knew Teresa was coming? Just thinking out loud and throwing ideas around.
 
As some have stated before this documentary is about the corruption of our judicial department, not just the Steven Avery case. I see some on here do not really believe that the police actually plant evidence, or would participate in this type of behavior to put someone in jail. I was on youtube watching videos of actual police planting evidence. Seeing it done to people over and over again really makes you realize, how many innocent people are in prison, because the cops just did not get caught.

Here is a link into other police corruption, just a look at how often this kind of thing happens. How many times have people told us they were innocent, but when the police made there statements we quickly believed them, simply because they are LE.

[video=youtube;jEZ3eULB47E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEZ3eULB47E[/video]

I don't know how I feel about our judicial department anymore....
 
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