Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

warri0r said:

3) Another alternative is that the SK is interested in car racing which fits in with the car enthusiast profile. The 2 disposal sites, I notice they are close to the 2 raceways in Perth. Wanneroo Raceway in the north and Kwinana Motorplex in the south. Not sure how these link in, but it's just something I noticed..

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Welcome
Kwinana motorplex wasn't around until 2000. It was still at the Claremont show grounds when the CSK was about.


Id be interested to know the route the CSK took to get to Wellard...
Maybe Freeway to Thomas Rd, right onto Bombay blvd, left onto Orton Rd, (pass casuarina prison), right onto casuarina road, Then easiest would be right onto Mortimer Rd, then left down Woolcoot. But given that Jane was on the left side (facing North) he had to turn around.
The other logical approach is Johnson rd or Wellard Rd to Millar Rd - it's the only way to get under Walley Bridge if approaching from South end of Woolcoot Rd

Anyways, there is plenty of thick bush on south side of Orton Rd to dump a body- and you can see people coming from long distances away - CSK prefererence. If you subscribe to SS being close to JR, it's worth considering. But in saying that, there is probably a dozen better spots to leave JR along the way too- so why Woolcoot Rd.

warri0r said:

5) One thing that has always stood out for me is that the 3 girls were all single and broke away from their group to go solo at some point in the night which makes me think a male love interest is involved (nothing new here). Most girls would be quite giddy and find it hard to keep from friends if they had just met a guy, so could it be that he was married and therefore a secret? Either way my suspicions are that the CSK is a good looking, charismatic male. Again, probably nothing groundbreaking here.


That's all I have to add. I'll go back to lurking now Keep it up everyone, there's some great stuff in this thread. Praying for justice.

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RSBM

Hi there, and welcome.

Your point number 5 has been resonating with me a little lately. In Debi Marshalls book, it says that JR wanted to go to the movies that fateful night, but her brother couldn't go. I rewatched the Sunday Night special recently, which contradicted what the book said. According to JR's brother, he asked her to go to the movies and she said no. She turned down a trip to the movies to go out, and didn't want to go home when her friends left, although she didnt go back to the pub- she waited around outside. Which has made me wonder not about who she may have seen during the night, and hoped to run into, but maybe who she already knew, and knew would be out, if that makes sense.

The other niggling question I have at the moment is the blonde man seen in CCTV footage on the night that CG disappeared. The police have an image of the man- but apparently it has never been released. Why???? It has been 20 years. Why not share the pic of a potential POI? Time for an inquest, too many secrets.

J35 said:

Welcome
Kwinana motorplex wasn't around until 2000. It was still at the Claremont show grounds when the CSK was about.


Id be interested to know the route the CSK took to get to Wellard...
Maybe Freeway to Thomas Rd, right onto Bombay blvd, left onto Orton Rd, (pass casuarina prison), right onto casuarina road, Then easiest would be right onto Mortimer Rd, then left down Woolcoot. But given that Jane was on the left side (facing North) he had to turn around.
The other logical approach is Johnson rd or Wellard Rd to Millar Rd - it's the only way to get under Walley Bridge if approaching from South end of Woolcoot Rd

Anyways, there is plenty of thick bush on south side of Orton Rd to dump a body- and you can see people coming from long distances away - CSK prefererence. If you subscribe to SS being close to JR, it's worth considering. But in saying that, there is probably a dozen better spots to leave JR along the way too- so why Woolcoot Rd.

Click to expand...

The other option is south through Fremantle. Stirling Hwy > Hamton Rd > Cockburn Rd > and then either Thomas, or onto Mandurah Rd and onto Wellard Rd.

At that time the Fwy had only just reached Baldivas wich is just past Wellard. Up until then anyone living Western Suburbs used Cockburn Rd to go South - Rockigham, Mandurah, Yallingup etc. So it could have been force of habit. I know it's the route I would have taken.

Another consideration is what he felt safer doing;

Option 1 - Drive into the edge of the city to get onto the Fwy and then have the relative safety and anonymity of the Fwy.
Option 2 - Avoid going closer to the city, enjoy the anonymity of taking the route many doing when driving down south and then hit some back street rural roads that may represent a risk.

Another consideration is, did he pick the sites because they were near the end of the Fwy, north and south?

Thanks Bart - I agree. The western route (your option 2) would be much quieter at night, being through a lot of industrial areas. Also, he crossed the river. Which bridge is darkest? Not the Causeway, the Narrows or Canning Bridge.

Mel 1303 said:

RSBM

Hi there, and welcome.

Your point number 5 has been resonating with me a little lately. In Debi Marshalls book, it says that JR wanted to go to the movies that fateful night, but her brother couldn't go. I rewatched the Sunday Night special recently, which contradicted what the book said. According to JR's brother, he asked her to go to the movies and she said no. She turned down a trip to the movies to go out, and didn't want to go home when her friends left, although she didnt go back to the pub- she waited around outside. Which has made me wonder not about who she may have seen during the night, and hoped to run into, but maybe who she already knew, and knew would be out, if that makes sense.

The other niggling question I have at the moment is the blonde man seen in CCTV footage on the night that CG disappeared. The police have an image of the man- but apparently it has never been released. Why???? It has been 20 years. Why not share the pic of a potential POI? Time for an inquest, too many secrets.

Click to expand...

Re the blonde guy on CG evening. Perhaps police ended up identifying him after newspaper articles published the information back in 97.

Don't forget Jane had also been to the Shenton Park hotel where her mother worked, and caught a taxi from there to the OBH, and taxi to Claremont later in evening. She may have crossed paths with her destiny there. I've not read or heard anything that indicates the police ever questioned patrons at the OBH; a fatal flaw in their investigation given that Sarah Spiers had also attended the OBH prior to Claremont.

By the way the OBH is situated at the corner of Eric Street Cottesloe; very close to LW's own unit and parents lived in Eric St.

Yep the book is full of inaccuracies and that is why police came out punching when the book was released. They were also furious that she had included detail that should never have been released publicly.

Bartholemeus said:

The other option is south through Fremantle. Stirling Hwy > Hamton Rd > Cockburn Rd > and then either Thomas, or onto Mandurah Rd and onto Wellard Rd.

At that time the Fwy had only just reached Baldivas wich is just past Wellard. Up until then anyone living Western Suburbs used Cockburn Rd to go South - Rockigham, Mandurah, Yallingup etc. So it could have been force of habit. I know it's the route I would have taken.

Another consideration is what he felt safer doing;

Option 1 - Drive into the edge of the city to get onto the Fwy and then have the relative safety and anonymity of the Fwy.
Option 2 - Avoid going closer to the city, enjoy the anonymity of taking the route many doing when driving down south and then hit some back street rural roads that may represent a risk.

Another consideration is, did he pick the sites because they were near the end of the Fwy, north and south?

Click to expand...

He would have chosen a route that he had predetermined would not put him at risk of a police pullover. Does anyone have any knowledge of general police presence after midnight, both in southerly and northerly directions ex Claremont ? What time would the highway police change their shifts ? Would RBT's (roadside breath testing) have been out and about back in 96 / 97 ?

I've read an article recently that LW, in his employment, had knowledge of police activities in relation to the work he performed (yes I know I can hear you, I'll find it and attach).

Marshall mentions "issuing permits". What would these permits be connected to ? Do Main Roads control traffic lights ? I know you need to seek and gain permits to erect roadside (main arterial roads that Main Roads control) signage, and for heavy haulage and prime movers on certain routes; and to block normal flow of traffic eg moving very large objects in certain times (which have time restrictions placed). What else do Main Roads issue permits for ?

Would it be 'safer' with less risk for perp to transport the girls at night or during the day ? Would the police be more likely to pull someone over at night or during the day ? My view is perp would be more likely to transport during daylight hours; much more traffic on the road, less risk that he 'stood out'. At night, more risk as less drivers on the road for police to pull over so more likely to get pulled over.

Do a 'get directions' inquiry using google earth. the route that is auto chosen is Kwinana Freeway route with a guesstimate of 36 minutes to Woolcoot Road at 43.3kms, 2nd option is Stirling Highway / Route 5 with guesstimate of 43 minutes with 43.7kms. The girls were placed 'driving distance' of 86kms apart; this information was released by press / police in 96 / 97.

Bartholemeus said:

At that time the Fwy had only just reached Baldivas wich is just past Wellard.

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The freeway was extended from Thomas Rd to Baldivis Rd in the 2000's and was completed in mid 2001. Thomas rd was the end of the freeway at the time of CSK. Can't remember if the bush had been cleared at the end of the freeway or not.

Bartholemeus said:

Option 1 - Drive into the edge of the city to get onto the Fwy and then have the relative safety and anonymity of the Fwy.
Option 2 - Avoid going closer to the city, enjoy the anonymity of taking the route many doing when driving down south and then hit some back street rural roads that may represent a risk.

Click to expand...

True. Option 2 would not require a u-turn to made. Personally I would take the freeway due to the following:
A) less likely to run into any cop cars/booze buses/multinova's/red light cameras
B) tonne less traffic lights to stop at
C) less likely to be spotted by security cars patrolling the industrial areas

If it is option 2, the bush North and South of Wellard Rd is still a 'better' place to leave a body- this would include Gentle Rd, Tasker Rd- which are dead zones at night - a known place for doing burn outs and dumping stolen cars. Plus, chalk hill has many accessable limestone tracks to take you into the bush (Bushfire knowledge). It is often used by dirt bike riders (but more just south of Thomas Rd) and place to illegally dump rubbish. It also has a gas pipeline etc for access.
Knowing all this, Woolcoot Rd is a strange choice.

Having driven most of the roads around Kwinana at night time, my preference would be cutting through casuarina. Those roads are pretty much abandoned after 1030pm.
References
http://expressway.paulrands.com/gal...pectaclestobaldivis/const/baldivis/index.html
Local knowledge (unfortunately grew up in the area from 2000)
FYI, I was 9 at the time of CSK.

Unrelated, but Sarah Spiers' uncle in the news today http://www.domain.com.au/news/perth...worthless-land-near-mandurah-20160106-glzww4/
70acres hrmm

papertrail said:

Re Hair colour. Last week I posted my observations regarding people's perceptions of hair colour and how they would describe a particular hair colour. It would be an interesting project to conduct to find out what shade of 'blonde' would people change their description of to brown. At the same time, conducting a colour blindness test.

And again, I also wrote about the sighting of the white coloured commodore station wagon and the linking of that vehicle via forensic exhibit to JR disposal site or her body. Bret Christian detailed that the particular upholstery fabric had been linked forensically to only the particular Holden release of VS Series 1 Commodores. Current online information details that that particular series of vehicle had 2 brand names ie Calais and Berlina which were both upmarket models and I consider it more likely that Holden would fitout upmarket models with an upmarket fabric upholstery; hence the upholstery fabric being used only for a particular model of VS series 1. This leads me to consider that the witness sighting of CG talking with the occupants of the station wagon may have been just that. She may have continued her journey and another driver has stopped and he was driving either a Calais or Berlina sedan, not necessarily a station wagon.

Both the Calais and Berlina models were available in station wagon models.

I consider more information needs to be sought from the manufacturer regarding exactly which model (branded as Calais, Berlina or Commodore) VS Series 1 had what particular fabric upholstery to see if focus can be narrowed. Any volunteers ?

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Good analysis but I fail to see how you've concluded the vehicle was an upmarket model commodore based on the information at hand, I've only seen mentions of fibre, nothing noting upmarket.

Also, Holden have never made a Calais wagon.

this was posted on gary hughes blog in 2007

john
Thu 22 Mar 07 (12:35am)

police seek and are aware of killer with military background [which was mentioned in past by media] the first question asked to me[am i ex military]by macro at crane house perth they somewhat agreed he may have known his victims rimmer was dumped on left side woolcott rd wellard[thanks for suburb correction]drive north from miller rd hi phantom 62 glennon was a small petit girl easy to carry[i know that from a woman friend who went to same school and new her mother who also taught their aswell she new cutler who went their also] unlike rimmer she was carried from vechicle to dump site what i ask is was she carried to and dumped 40 metres at side of bitumen rd or side of track that runs parallel head west to coast or dump side bitumen head east from coast basically i want to know if she was dumped at side of bitumen rd or side of track theory is he carried body so not to scratch his car the hit [match] found on ahdesive tape at rimmer site by international review found but missed by macro is not the big dna match mentioned by malcolm boots[uk forensic scentist at the review]but obviously would say when we conversed and sms in uk i believe is a victim-suspect or victim-victim[unrelated] or victim-victim [unrelated]to suspect personally i believe a cloths fibre match? by scs ex assist oic vinney kins....saying to me we want physical evidence suggests state crime squad have suspect exibits reason why enquiry is ongoing


pretty hard to read. but this guy has knowledge of the fibers being found on JR back then.

From Post newspaper. I missed the bolded part the first time. If that is the case police know where she went from CCTV footage.

Police have made a positive link between an unknown rap-ist and the murderer of one of the three victims of the infa-mous Claremont serial killer.


The forensic link shows that the man who abducted a woman from a Claremont street late at night and sexually assaulted her in Karrakatta Cemetery in 1995, is the same man who murdered Ciara Glennon.Police hope the breakthrough will lead to the arrest of the man who preyed on and murdered young women who had been partying in central Claremont in the mid-1990s. Police have long linked three crimes, all assumed to be mur-ders.But it is now known that there is a link between at least one of the murders and an abduction and sexual assault where the victim survived.

Ms Glennon, a 27-year-old lawyer, was the last known victim, in 1997, of the unknown man who became notorious Australia-wide as the Claremont serial killer.She was last seen after leav-ing the Claremont Hotel around midnight on March 17. She was talking to someone in a white station wagon stopped on Stirling Highway, opposite Hungry Jack’s.The attacks by the same per-son are now known to span at least three years.When the Claremont cold case investigation that uncovered the vital clue began in 2004, police announced that the cases of 16 missing women would be included.

The Special Crime Squad is actively investigating the mys-tery that began nearly 20 years ago with the disappearance of secretary Sarah Spiers (18) from Stirling Road in Claremont after she had left Club Bay View around 2am in January 1996.On February 12, 1995, a year before the abduction of the first known “serial killer” victim, Sarah Spiers.The 17-year-old rape victim had left Club Bay View after midnight and was walking to a friend’s house in Gugeri Street, opposite the Claremont Showgrounds’ arena.But she did not arrive. As she walked past Rowe Park opposite the Claremont subway, a man abducted her and forced her into what was described at the time as a van.He tied her wrists with what was described as telephone cable, and her head was covered. She later told police she did not see her attacker’s face.She was driven into the darkness of a remote part of Karrakatta Cemetery, stripped and sexually assaulted then released.She ran to the nearest visible light, the admissions section of Hollywood Hospital in nearby Monash Avenue, Nedlands, on the other side of the cemetery from Gugeri Street.A few months after Sarah Spiers disappeared, local child-care work-er Jane Rimmer, who had been at the Claremont Hotel, disappeared. She was thought to have been abducted walking east in Stirling Highway, Claremont. Her body was found south of Perth.Ms Glennon’s body was found north of Perth and Sarah Spiers’ body has never been found.That crime remains unsolved.

A 12-man squad has been working almost full-time on the Claremont serial killer case since the forensic link was made, with the help of ad-vances in forensic science, in 2009.Detectives are also keen to re-investigate any other attacks, sexual crimes, attempted abduc-tions or even home invasions in the 1990s in case the same culprit was involved. This could provide small but important links to the killer police seek. Since then, detectives have interviewed and re-interviewed thousands of people in the hope of completing the link, so far without success.The breakthrough forensic link has led police to abandon their focus on a Cottesloe public serv-ant, where they had focused most of their resources for many years.Perth metropolitan media at the time freely referred to him as the chief suspect.The cold case squad has also eliminated former Claremont mayor Peter Weygers, whose home was raided in 2004 after a tip from a clairvoyant.

When, in 1997, the POST pub-lished the opinion of a US crime expert that the first place to start looking for the culprit was the cemetery attacker, WA police is-sued a press statement asking the media not to publish the views of outside experts.Detectives at the time said the cemetery and Claremont serial killer attacks were not linked. They have now totally changed their view. They believe all four crimes, all blitz attacks, were sexually motivated and linked to the same man.

billywhizz said:

From Post newspaper. I missed the bolded part the first time. If that is the case police know where she went from CCTV footage.

snip ... A few months after Sarah Spiers disappeared, local child-care work-er Jane Rimmer, who had been at the Claremont Hotel, disappeared. She was thought to have been abducted walking east in Stirling Highway, Claremont. ... snip

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I think this is because there was (if i remember correctly) unconfirmed sightings of a person fitting a similar description of Jane at the time (mentioned somewhere within the last 30 pages)... so my bet is the police don't know 100% and thus the use of "thought to have"... ?? Can't even remember who posted it now. But the discussion was about why she would have walked home and what route she would have taken... Too many topics. Need subthreads for this thread.

For those of you who are interested, I've included two presentations demonstrating the information management system that Macro used in relation to the disappearances.

http://www.holmes2.com/holmes2/sampleinv/Main.ppt

http://www.holmes2.com/holmes2/sampleinv/Supplementary.ppt

88mph said:

Good analysis but I fail to see how you've concluded the vehicle was an upmarket model commodore based on the information at hand, I've only seen mentions of fibre, nothing noting upmarket.

Also, Holden have never made a Calais wagon.

Click to expand...

Read (fully) the online articles with specs that I posted a couple of weeks ago. The Calais and Berlina were upmarket models in that they had all the whizbang new fangdangled electrics and computers installed.

J35 said:

I think this is because there was (if i remember correctly) unconfirmed sightings of a person fitting a similar description of Jane at the time (mentioned somewhere within the last 30 pages)... so my bet is the police don't know 100% and thus the use of "thought to have"... ?? Can't even remember who posted it now. But the discussion was about why she would have walked home and what route she would have taken... Too many topics. Need subthreads for this thread.

Click to expand...

I think I posted the newspaper article that detailed a woman of Jane's description had been seen east along Stirling Highway near Dalkeith Road; the police had asked any females that were in the area at the time to come forward. When I posted the article I noted (with the article) the proximity to Karrakatta cemetery. I've re-attached.

J35 said:

The freeway was extended from Thomas Rd to Baldivis Rd in the 2000's and was completed in mid 2001. Thomas rd was the end of the freeway at the time of CSK. Can't remember if the bush had been cleared at the end of the freeway or not.

True. Option 2 would not require a u-turn to made. Personally I would take the freeway due to the following:
A) less likely to run into any cop cars/booze buses/multinova's/red light cameras
B) tonne less traffic lights to stop at
C) less likely to be spotted by security cars patrolling the industrial areas

If it is option 2, the bush North and South of Wellard Rd is still a 'better' place to leave a body- this would include Gentle Rd, Tasker Rd- which are dead zones at night - a known place for doing burn outs and dumping stolen cars. Plus, chalk hill has many accessable limestone tracks to take you into the bush (Bushfire knowledge). It is often used by dirt bike riders (but more just south of Thomas Rd) and place to illegally dump rubbish. It also has a gas pipeline etc for access.
Knowing all this, Woolcoot Rd is a strange choice.

Having driven most of the roads around Kwinana at night time, my preference would be cutting through casuarina. Those roads are pretty much abandoned after 1030pm.
References
http://expressway.paulrands.com/gal...pectaclestobaldivis/const/baldivis/index.html
Local knowledge (unfortunately grew up in the area from 2000)
FYI, I was 9 at the time of CSK.

Click to expand...

Section "further extensions" information conflicts with your date. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwinana_Freeway

Also interested to see that pre-planning was going on for the Kwinana Freeway in Wellard / Baldivis and other surrounding areas in 1988 ! http://epa.wa.gov.au/EPADocLib/329_B365.pdf

aim2solve said:

For those of you who are interested, I've included two presentations demonstrating the information management system that Macro used in relation to the disappearances.

http://www.holmes2.com/holmes2/sampleinv/Main.ppt

http://www.holmes2.com/holmes2/sampleinv/Supplementary.ppt

Click to expand...

Sweet graphics. I found that very informative, and it offered insight into how the investigation was structured (in part).

I wonder how successful the Holmes2 program has been, in general. Police should have relied more on Karrakatta and other area assaults.

I would love to know how many Nominal Files exist for LW, Telecom, Judo, etc. Con Bayens should have called Highgate-boot into Holmes2.

billywhizz said:

From Post newspaper. I missed the bolded part the first time. If that is the case police know where she went from CCTV footage...

...A few months after Sarah Spiers disappeared, local child-care work-er Jane Rimmer, who had been at the Claremont Hotel, disappeared. She was thought to have been abducted walking east in Stirling Highway, Claremont. ...

Click to expand...

RSBM. I remember a brief discussion on the threads, but had forgotten all about this. Thanks for reposting.

So does this make it more likely that MM is not involved?

billywhizz said:

this was posted on gary hughes blog in 2007

john
Thu 22 Mar 07 (12:35am)

police seek and are aware of killer with military background [which was mentioned in past by media] the first question asked to me[am i ex military]by macro at crane house perth they somewhat agreed he may have known his victims rimmer was dumped on left side woolcott rd wellard[thanks for suburb correction]drive north from miller rd hi phantom 62 glennon was a small petit girl easy to carry[i know that from a woman friend who went to same school and new her mother who also taught their aswell she new cutler who went their also] unlike rimmer she was carried from vechicle to dump site what i ask is was she carried to and dumped 40 metres at side of bitumen rd or side of track that runs parallel head west to coast or dump side bitumen head east from coast basically i want to know if she was dumped at side of bitumen rd or side of track theory is he carried body so not to scratch his car the hit [match] found on ahdesive tape at rimmer site by international review found but missed by macro is not the big dna match mentioned by malcolm boots[uk forensic scentist at the review]but obviously would say when we conversed and sms in uk i believe is a victim-suspect or victim-victim[unrelated] or victim-victim [unrelated]to suspect personally i believe a cloths fibre match? by scs ex assist oic vinney kins....saying to me we want physical evidence suggests state crime squad have suspect exibits reason why enquiry is ongoing


pretty hard to read. but this guy has knowledge of the fibers being found on JR back then.

Click to expand...

Good find...I think. John employs a unique writing style, throwing punctuation and other rules of grammar to the wind.

The way it's written implies a piece of adhesive tape was found at the scene.

I don't remember Malcolm Boots' quote about a DNA match. Does anyone else? Or is John saying this is something Mr Boots texted him?

I am lost at everything after 'sms'.

Given JR's disposal site was very close to the Woolcoot Road fenceline of the property 619 Millar Road, and the extremely thick bushland that was growing between Woolcoot Road and this fenceline -- this would have made it extremely difficult for the perp, and it did not appear to me that a path had been cut by the perp to give him access, prior to her remains being located.

I consider it plausible the perp accessed his chosen disposal site via Mortimer Road then down one of many of the tracks that existed ex Mortimer and this would keep him well out of view with 'easy' access to dispose of JR's remains over fence. I've attached a Landgate aerial shot taken 6 Feb 1995.

Note the area I think is plausible the perp could have used is pointed out with black lines.

I've also taken a couple of stills of from the CIA doc, showing an aerial view the police had obviously captured of the Wellard site. In separate message.